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Delves: Vet, Vet+ and Vet++
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Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are they not? New players often ask for advice or help. Who would advise them if everyone who knows anything isn't there? Not to mention all the new complaining that would arise from diffrent difficulty, like "Why are players level 45 in this vet++ delve" or like the recent post "Can we have a option for 690 delves only"...
Either way...it's absurd, and it's not going to happen. So, enjoy your easy content, because it is what it is. And it will continue to be. Your thinking is wishful, and it will be just that...
Delves =/= Group Dungeons
Delves =/= Public Dungeons
Delves =/= Zones
Delves are solo focused mini-dungeons.
Players usually ask for help in zone, or in group or public dungeons. This thread is not asking for different overland zones, just delves. I would not care if I saw level 45s in vet++ because if they knew how to play they would probably perform better than most CP690s.
Delves are not solo. Just because you are not in a group doesn't make them solo. You are not in them alone, instanced to you. They are shared.1 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are they not? New players often ask for advice or help. Who would advise them if everyone who knows anything isn't there? Not to mention all the new complaining that would arise from diffrent difficulty, like "Why are players level 45 in this vet++ delve" or like the recent post "Can we have a option for 690 delves only"...
Either way...it's absurd, and it's not going to happen. So, enjoy your easy content, because it is what it is. And it will continue to be. Your thinking is wishful, and it will be just that...
Delves =/= Group Dungeons
Delves =/= Public Dungeons
Delves =/= Zones
Delves are solo focused mini-dungeons.
Players usually ask for help in zone, or in group or public dungeons. This thread is not asking for different overland zones, just delves. I would not care if I saw level 45s in vet++ because if they knew how to play they would probably perform better than most CP690s.
Delves are not solo. Just because you are not in a group doesn't make them solo. You are not in them alone, instanced to you. They are shared.
Which is why I said solo focused.
I just don't see your point. If new players are struggling with a delve, surely there will be other people doing easy mode who know the mechanics and can explain it to them(something I have yet to see in a delve after 3500 hours), or those people struggling to complete it can wait for more players to show up and turn the odds in their favor.
By the logic you are throwing at me, we should get rid of veteran dungeons and trials in favor of having only normal, otherwise the new players might never learn because everybody will be in vet? Yeah, get rid of veteran dungeons and trails and then add new vet only content, that's pretty much the sum of what your argument has been, is it not?[DC/NA]0 -
terrordactyl1971✭✭✭✭Solo group dungeons isnt the answer, theres a huge gap between those and solo delves in difficulty. Apart from normal MA there is zero content between the two - which is where most players are. The content needs a slider1 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are they not? New players often ask for advice or help. Who would advise them if everyone who knows anything isn't there? Not to mention all the new complaining that would arise from diffrent difficulty, like "Why are players level 45 in this vet++ delve" or like the recent post "Can we have a option for 690 delves only"...
Either way...it's absurd, and it's not going to happen. So, enjoy your easy content, because it is what it is. And it will continue to be. Your thinking is wishful, and it will be just that...
Delves =/= Group Dungeons
Delves =/= Public Dungeons
Delves =/= Zones
Delves are solo focused mini-dungeons.
Players usually ask for help in zone, or in group or public dungeons. This thread is not asking for different overland zones, just delves. I would not care if I saw level 45s in vet++ because if they knew how to play they would probably perform better than most CP690s.
Delves are not solo. Just because you are not in a group doesn't make them solo. You are not in them alone, instanced to you. They are shared.
Which is why I said solo focused.
I just don't see your point. If new players are struggling with a delve, surely there will be other people doing easy mode who know the mechanics and can explain it to them(something I have yet to see in a delve after 3500 hours), or those people struggling to complete it can wait for more players to show up and turn the odds in their favor.
By the logic you are throwing at me, we should get rid of veteran dungeons and trials in favor of having only normal, otherwise the new players might never learn because everybody will be in vet? Yeah, get rid of veteran dungeons and trails and then add new vet only content, that's pretty much the sum of what your argument has been, is it not?
Except I've been saying over and over again that is exactly the place it needs to be. You are so wrapped up in your own argument you are completely cherry picking and ignoring what I'm actually saying to make your own statements seem better.
I said the place for increased difficulty is right there...trials and dungeons.
So, at this point, you aren't even coming with anything credible. You are just saying stuff to say it....
Edited by Kel on December 17, 2017 8:24PM0 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are they not? New players often ask for advice or help. Who would advise them if everyone who knows anything isn't there? Not to mention all the new complaining that would arise from diffrent difficulty, like "Why are players level 45 in this vet++ delve" or like the recent post "Can we have a option for 690 delves only"...
Either way...it's absurd, and it's not going to happen. So, enjoy your easy content, because it is what it is. And it will continue to be. Your thinking is wishful, and it will be just that...
Delves =/= Group Dungeons
Delves =/= Public Dungeons
Delves =/= Zones
Delves are solo focused mini-dungeons.
Players usually ask for help in zone, or in group or public dungeons. This thread is not asking for different overland zones, just delves. I would not care if I saw level 45s in vet++ because if they knew how to play they would probably perform better than most CP690s.
Delves are not solo. Just because you are not in a group doesn't make them solo. You are not in them alone, instanced to you. They are shared.
Which is why I said solo focused.
I just don't see your point. If new players are struggling with a delve, surely there will be other people doing easy mode who know the mechanics and can explain it to them(something I have yet to see in a delve after 3500 hours), or those people struggling to complete it can wait for more players to show up and turn the odds in their favor.
By the logic you are throwing at me, we should get rid of veteran dungeons and trials in favor of having only normal, otherwise the new players might never learn because everybody will be in vet? Yeah, get rid of veteran dungeons and trails and then add new vet only content, that's pretty much the sum of what your argument has been, is it not?
Except I've been saying over and over again that is exactly the place it needs to be. You are so wrapped up in your own argument you are completely cherry picking and ignoring what I'm actually saying to make your own statements seem better.
I said the place for increased difficulty is right there...trials and dungeons.
So, at this point, you aren't even coming with anything credible. You are just saying stuff to say it....
Okay.......... I'll stop challenging your opinions about what others should or shouldn't be allowed to do in this game.[DC/NA]0 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are they not? New players often ask for advice or help. Who would advise them if everyone who knows anything isn't there? Not to mention all the new complaining that would arise from diffrent difficulty, like "Why are players level 45 in this vet++ delve" or like the recent post "Can we have a option for 690 delves only"...
Either way...it's absurd, and it's not going to happen. So, enjoy your easy content, because it is what it is. And it will continue to be. Your thinking is wishful, and it will be just that...
Delves =/= Group Dungeons
Delves =/= Public Dungeons
Delves =/= Zones
Delves are solo focused mini-dungeons.
Players usually ask for help in zone, or in group or public dungeons. This thread is not asking for different overland zones, just delves. I would not care if I saw level 45s in vet++ because if they knew how to play they would probably perform better than most CP690s.
Delves are not solo. Just because you are not in a group doesn't make them solo. You are not in them alone, instanced to you. They are shared.
Which is why I said solo focused.
I just don't see your point. If new players are struggling with a delve, surely there will be other people doing easy mode who know the mechanics and can explain it to them(something I have yet to see in a delve after 3500 hours), or those people struggling to complete it can wait for more players to show up and turn the odds in their favor.
By the logic you are throwing at me, we should get rid of veteran dungeons and trials in favor of having only normal, otherwise the new players might never learn because everybody will be in vet? Yeah, get rid of veteran dungeons and trails and then add new vet only content, that's pretty much the sum of what your argument has been, is it not?
Except I've been saying over and over again that is exactly the place it needs to be. You are so wrapped up in your own argument you are completely cherry picking and ignoring what I'm actually saying to make your own statements seem better.
I said the place for increased difficulty is right there...trials and dungeons.
So, at this point, you aren't even coming with anything credible. You are just saying stuff to say it....
Okay.......... I'll stop challenging your opinions about what others should or shouldn't be allowed to do in this game.
I never said anything like that. I said I don't see a point ranking up difficulty in a place you blast through to get a single skyshard. That's my opinion. You of couse are free to disagree, doesn't mean I don't have a right to give it. You made contradicting points about a)not bothering doing them because they are boring/then saying you do them.. b)Wanting to blast through them to get to PvP/then saying you want to take your time and have your mind engaged...c) it's a waste of time/then saying how valuable the skill points from shards are...
You are all over the map...
And again, just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm telling people what to do. I'm just saying how it is. Can you rank up the difficulty of delves right now? Ok..that's a no, not because I said so, but because that's how it is. But, I am saying there is a place for higher difficulty and as the game stands right now, it's not delves. That's really the relevant part. Its like saying you want to turn the kiddie rollercoaster into some massive ride. What point would it serve, again, letting you run the thing in 7 minutes instead of 5? Ok.. That's not me telling you..that's Zos.
Again, you don't have anything substantial to say, you are just saying random things that aren't even making sense anymore. Nice try, though..Edited by Kel on December 17, 2017 9:08PM0 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are they not? New players often ask for advice or help. Who would advise them if everyone who knows anything isn't there? Not to mention all the new complaining that would arise from diffrent difficulty, like "Why are players level 45 in this vet++ delve" or like the recent post "Can we have a option for 690 delves only"...
Either way...it's absurd, and it's not going to happen. So, enjoy your easy content, because it is what it is. And it will continue to be. Your thinking is wishful, and it will be just that...
Delves =/= Group Dungeons
Delves =/= Public Dungeons
Delves =/= Zones
Delves are solo focused mini-dungeons.
Players usually ask for help in zone, or in group or public dungeons. This thread is not asking for different overland zones, just delves. I would not care if I saw level 45s in vet++ because if they knew how to play they would probably perform better than most CP690s.
Delves are not solo. Just because you are not in a group doesn't make them solo. You are not in them alone, instanced to you. They are shared.
Which is why I said solo focused.
I just don't see your point. If new players are struggling with a delve, surely there will be other people doing easy mode who know the mechanics and can explain it to them(something I have yet to see in a delve after 3500 hours), or those people struggling to complete it can wait for more players to show up and turn the odds in their favor.
By the logic you are throwing at me, we should get rid of veteran dungeons and trials in favor of having only normal, otherwise the new players might never learn because everybody will be in vet? Yeah, get rid of veteran dungeons and trails and then add new vet only content, that's pretty much the sum of what your argument has been, is it not?
Except I've been saying over and over again that is exactly the place it needs to be. You are so wrapped up in your own argument you are completely cherry picking and ignoring what I'm actually saying to make your own statements seem better.
I said the place for increased difficulty is right there...trials and dungeons.
So, at this point, you aren't even coming with anything credible. You are just saying stuff to say it....
Okay.......... I'll stop challenging your opinions about what others should or shouldn't be allowed to do in this game.
I never said anything like that. I said I don't see a point ranking up difficulty in a place you blast through to get a single skyshard. That's my opinion. You of couse are free to disagree, doesn't mean I don't have a right to give it. You made contradicting points about a)not bothering doing them because they are boring/then saying you do them.. b)Wanting to blast through them to get to PvP/then saying you want to take your time and have your mind engaged...c) it's a waste of time/then saying how valuable the skill points from shards are...
You are all over the map...
And again, just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm telling people what to do. I'm just saying how it is. Can you rank up the difficulty of delves right now? Ok..that's a no, not because I said so, but because that's how it is. But, I am saying there is a place for higher difficulty and as the game stands right now, it's not delves. That's really the relevant part. Its like saying you want to turn the kiddie rollercoaster into some massive ride. What point would it serve, again, letting you run the thing in 7 minutes instead of 5? Ok.. That's not me telling you..that's Zos.
Again, you don't have anything substantial to say, you are just saying random things that aren't even making sense anymore. Nice try, though..
A ) I said I haven't done a lot of the delves because they are simply busy work right now. Therefore, I have a lot of skyshards (that I might need at some point) gated behind busy work content. This was in response to the "there's no reason to go back to them" argument. I am not going back because I have yet to go there on many of my characters. Clear enough?
B ) I want the skyshards so I can unlock passives. I currently blast through the delves because doing them normally doesn't engage my mind, because of a lack of difficulty. If they did in fact engage my mind I would gladly spend more time doing them properly.
C ) It's a waste of time because I could be doing something that does in fact engage my mind. That doesn't change the fact that I do in some cases need those skyshards to unlock passives or skills. My time is the most important thing, so I am going to leave the most boring (but necessary) content until last. Therefore I have plenty of delves which still need to be done, so a change like this could enhance that task when I decide to do it.
I am sorry that you think my opinions and experience in this game is all over the map. Nuance is an important thing when talking about game development, so I try my best to explain my opinions and give them honestly.
You say it is ZOS telling me I cannot have more difficulty in delves, except it is you in this thread making posts trying to dismiss our request because you think trials and group dungeons are enough. Also, before One Tamriel update, the delves in the 50+ and 50++ areas were more difficult than they are now, because those areas were aimed at veteran players. That is evidence that ZOS isn't against harder content in delves, but they sacrificed(rightly so) that delve difficulty for the benefit of opening up the whole world to every player.
When did you start playing this game? Did you experience 50+ and 50++ prior to One Tamriel?Edited by badmojo on December 17, 2017 9:16PM[DC/NA]0 -
Rainraven✭✭✭✭✭Wait, delves? Delves aren't instanced.
It would be cool if they WERE instanced, in which case yes please let people choose difficulty, complexity, take in a partner or not, etc. Also for dungeons, in case that's what we're really talking about.
Options are good.0 -
Rainraven✭✭✭✭✭terrordactyl1971 wrote: »Solo group dungeons isnt the answer, theres a huge gap between those and solo delves in difficulty. Apart from normal MA there is zero content between the two - which is where most players are. The content needs a slider
If they make a new arena, I really hope they make it configurable. I loved MA, it was a little too easy but very fun. VMA? Hard and never got fun. And both just way too predictable. It's the predictability that kills replay value.0 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are they not? New players often ask for advice or help. Who would advise them if everyone who knows anything isn't there? Not to mention all the new complaining that would arise from diffrent difficulty, like "Why are players level 45 in this vet++ delve" or like the recent post "Can we have a option for 690 delves only"...
Either way...it's absurd, and it's not going to happen. So, enjoy your easy content, because it is what it is. And it will continue to be. Your thinking is wishful, and it will be just that...
Delves =/= Group Dungeons
Delves =/= Public Dungeons
Delves =/= Zones
Delves are solo focused mini-dungeons.
Players usually ask for help in zone, or in group or public dungeons. This thread is not asking for different overland zones, just delves. I would not care if I saw level 45s in vet++ because if they knew how to play they would probably perform better than most CP690s.
Delves are not solo. Just because you are not in a group doesn't make them solo. You are not in them alone, instanced to you. They are shared.
Which is why I said solo focused.
I just don't see your point. If new players are struggling with a delve, surely there will be other people doing easy mode who know the mechanics and can explain it to them(something I have yet to see in a delve after 3500 hours), or those people struggling to complete it can wait for more players to show up and turn the odds in their favor.
By the logic you are throwing at me, we should get rid of veteran dungeons and trials in favor of having only normal, otherwise the new players might never learn because everybody will be in vet? Yeah, get rid of veteran dungeons and trails and then add new vet only content, that's pretty much the sum of what your argument has been, is it not?
Except I've been saying over and over again that is exactly the place it needs to be. You are so wrapped up in your own argument you are completely cherry picking and ignoring what I'm actually saying to make your own statements seem better.
I said the place for increased difficulty is right there...trials and dungeons.
So, at this point, you aren't even coming with anything credible. You are just saying stuff to say it....
Okay.......... I'll stop challenging your opinions about what others should or shouldn't be allowed to do in this game.
I never said anything like that. I said I don't see a point ranking up difficulty in a place you blast through to get a single skyshard. That's my opinion. You of couse are free to disagree, doesn't mean I don't have a right to give it. You made contradicting points about a)not bothering doing them because they are boring/then saying you do them.. b)Wanting to blast through them to get to PvP/then saying you want to take your time and have your mind engaged...c) it's a waste of time/then saying how valuable the skill points from shards are...
You are all over the map...
And again, just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm telling people what to do. I'm just saying how it is. Can you rank up the difficulty of delves right now? Ok..that's a no, not because I said so, but because that's how it is. But, I am saying there is a place for higher difficulty and as the game stands right now, it's not delves. That's really the relevant part. Its like saying you want to turn the kiddie rollercoaster into some massive ride. What point would it serve, again, letting you run the thing in 7 minutes instead of 5? Ok.. That's not me telling you..that's Zos.
Again, you don't have anything substantial to say, you are just saying random things that aren't even making sense anymore. Nice try, though..
A ) I said I haven't done a lot of the delves because they are simply busy work right now. Therefore, I have a lot of skyshards (that I might need at some point) gated behind busy work content. This was in response to the "there's no reason to go back to them" argument. I am not going back because I have yet to go there on many of my characters. Clear enough?
B ) I want the skyshards so I can unlock passives. I currently blast through the delves because doing them normally doesn't engage my mind, because of a lack of difficulty. If they did in fact engage my mind I would gladly spend more time doing them properly.
C ) It's a waste of time because I could be doing something that does in fact engage my mind. That doesn't change the fact that I do in some cases need those skyshards to unlock passives or skills. My time is the most important thing, so I am going to leave the most boring (but necessary) content until last. Therefore I have plenty of delves which still need to be done, so a change like this could enhance that task when I decide to do it.
I am sorry that you think my opinions and experience in this game is all over the map. Nuance is an important thing when talking about game development, so I try my best to explain my opinions and give them honestly.
You say it is ZOS telling me I cannot have more difficulty in delves, except it is you in this thread making posts trying to dismiss our request because you think trials and group dungeons are enough. Also, before One Tamriel update, the delves in the 50+ and 50++ areas were more difficult than they are now, because those areas were aimed at veteran players. That is evidence that ZOS isn't against harder content in delves, but they sacrificed(rightly so) that delve difficulty for the benefit of opening up the whole world to every player.
When did you start playing this game? Did you experience 50+ and 50++ prior to One Tamriel?
I'm not dismissive of anything. I disagree with it, but at no time have I ever said you shouldn't have your own opinion. I just disagree with it.
A vast difference.
Either way, I'm done with this topic. It's getting to the point of derailment and I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't know the difference between opinion and telling people what to do.
All the best.Edited by Kel on December 17, 2017 9:42PM0 -
Imza✭✭✭✭This thread was actually quite difficult to follow - due to the inconsistancy of using the correct terms or labels.
If you use the correct labels of things people will be able to understand much better what you are trying to say.
2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are they not? New players often ask for advice or help. Who would advise them if everyone who knows anything isn't there? Not to mention all the new complaining that would arise from diffrent difficulty, like "Why are players level 45 in this vet++ delve" or like the recent post "Can we have a option for 690 delves only"...
Either way...it's absurd, and it's not going to happen. So, enjoy your easy content, because it is what it is. And it will continue to be. Your thinking is wishful, and it will be just that...
Delves =/= Group Dungeons
Delves =/= Public Dungeons
Delves =/= Zones
Delves are solo focused mini-dungeons.
Players usually ask for help in zone, or in group or public dungeons. This thread is not asking for different overland zones, just delves. I would not care if I saw level 45s in vet++ because if they knew how to play they would probably perform better than most CP690s.
Delves are not solo. Just because you are not in a group doesn't make them solo. You are not in them alone, instanced to you. They are shared.
Which is why I said solo focused.
I just don't see your point. If new players are struggling with a delve, surely there will be other people doing easy mode who know the mechanics and can explain it to them(something I have yet to see in a delve after 3500 hours), or those people struggling to complete it can wait for more players to show up and turn the odds in their favor.
By the logic you are throwing at me, we should get rid of veteran dungeons and trials in favor of having only normal, otherwise the new players might never learn because everybody will be in vet? Yeah, get rid of veteran dungeons and trails and then add new vet only content, that's pretty much the sum of what your argument has been, is it not?
Except I've been saying over and over again that is exactly the place it needs to be. You are so wrapped up in your own argument you are completely cherry picking and ignoring what I'm actually saying to make your own statements seem better.
I said the place for increased difficulty is right there...trials and dungeons.
So, at this point, you aren't even coming with anything credible. You are just saying stuff to say it....
Okay.......... I'll stop challenging your opinions about what others should or shouldn't be allowed to do in this game.
I never said anything like that. I said I don't see a point ranking up difficulty in a place you blast through to get a single skyshard. That's my opinion. You of couse are free to disagree, doesn't mean I don't have a right to give it. You made contradicting points about a)not bothering doing them because they are boring/then saying you do them.. b)Wanting to blast through them to get to PvP/then saying you want to take your time and have your mind engaged...c) it's a waste of time/then saying how valuable the skill points from shards are...
You are all over the map...
And again, just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm telling people what to do. I'm just saying how it is. Can you rank up the difficulty of delves right now? Ok..that's a no, not because I said so, but because that's how it is. But, I am saying there is a place for higher difficulty and as the game stands right now, it's not delves. That's really the relevant part. Its like saying you want to turn the kiddie rollercoaster into some massive ride. What point would it serve, again, letting you run the thing in 7 minutes instead of 5? Ok.. That's not me telling you..that's Zos.
Again, you don't have anything substantial to say, you are just saying random things that aren't even making sense anymore. Nice try, though..
A ) I said I haven't done a lot of the delves because they are simply busy work right now. Therefore, I have a lot of skyshards (that I might need at some point) gated behind busy work content. This was in response to the "there's no reason to go back to them" argument. I am not going back because I have yet to go there on many of my characters. Clear enough?
B ) I want the skyshards so I can unlock passives. I currently blast through the delves because doing them normally doesn't engage my mind, because of a lack of difficulty. If they did in fact engage my mind I would gladly spend more time doing them properly.
C ) It's a waste of time because I could be doing something that does in fact engage my mind. That doesn't change the fact that I do in some cases need those skyshards to unlock passives or skills. My time is the most important thing, so I am going to leave the most boring (but necessary) content until last. Therefore I have plenty of delves which still need to be done, so a change like this could enhance that task when I decide to do it.
I am sorry that you think my opinions and experience in this game is all over the map. Nuance is an important thing when talking about game development, so I try my best to explain my opinions and give them honestly.
You say it is ZOS telling me I cannot have more difficulty in delves, except it is you in this thread making posts trying to dismiss our request because you think trials and group dungeons are enough. Also, before One Tamriel update, the delves in the 50+ and 50++ areas were more difficult than they are now, because those areas were aimed at veteran players. That is evidence that ZOS isn't against harder content in delves, but they sacrificed(rightly so) that delve difficulty for the benefit of opening up the whole world to every player.
When did you start playing this game? Did you experience 50+ and 50++ prior to One Tamriel?
So essentially.
You want difficulty so you have a reason to get Skyshards so you have a reason to play.
Methinks, that if your that uninterested in the game, instead of calling for the entire game to be changed to suit your needs, you would go out and find a game with the challenge you crave. It makes no sense to do this.
The only reason I support multiple dungeon difficulties is these people wont shut up and are a actual subset of the endgame PVE community which wouldn't take too much to sate, you on the other hand just seem like you need to find a new game. Because what you seem to want, is difficulty for it's own sake, and this game isn't designed around that.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on December 18, 2017 7:43AM1 -
Dunnn✭✭✭I think this would be a great addition to the game.Swims-In-Coffee [Argonian Stamblade EP]
D'ar Nomad [Khajit Stamblade EP]
Pepe Sillvia [Wood Elf Stamblade EP]
Trips-Over-Tail [Argonian Crafter! EP]0 -
terrordactyl1971✭✭✭✭Not sure why some people get so upset at an OPTIONAL difficulty setting for a small part of the solo content2
-
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭terrordactyl1971 wrote: »Not sure why some people get so upset at an OPTIONAL difficulty setting for a small part of the solo content
Because it's the principle and reasoning I take issue with.
If you hate the game that much because of it's lack of difficulty, clearly the game isn't for you. I recently stopped playing a online game because I got too frustraited, you dont just go 'LET ME WIN'. That's unreasonable.0 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Try solo vet dungeons. It seems to be the same thing you're asking for now, but in the game already.
Seems like alot of work when most players hit a delve or public dungeon once and don't return. (Unless farming gold, or something like Spriggan's gear) You get in, you get your shard, you get the achievement for completion, and you don't come back. Upping difficulty won't get me to return.
Like I said, you want difficulty and challenges...solo dungeons. You can already do that without Zos having yet another balance issue on thier hands.
Wouldnt be too terrible have it ask before entering vet or normal delve and have the bosses better loot and tougher more like what craglorn delves where before they revamped them for solo access.Edited by Mettaricana on December 18, 2017 2:20PM0 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Are they not? New players often ask for advice or help. Who would advise them if everyone who knows anything isn't there? Not to mention all the new complaining that would arise from diffrent difficulty, like "Why are players level 45 in this vet++ delve" or like the recent post "Can we have a option for 690 delves only"...
Either way...it's absurd, and it's not going to happen. So, enjoy your easy content, because it is what it is. And it will continue to be. Your thinking is wishful, and it will be just that...
Delves =/= Group Dungeons
Delves =/= Public Dungeons
Delves =/= Zones
Delves are solo focused mini-dungeons.
Players usually ask for help in zone, or in group or public dungeons. This thread is not asking for different overland zones, just delves. I would not care if I saw level 45s in vet++ because if they knew how to play they would probably perform better than most CP690s.
Delves are not solo. Just because you are not in a group doesn't make them solo. You are not in them alone, instanced to you. They are shared.
Which is why I said solo focused.
I just don't see your point. If new players are struggling with a delve, surely there will be other people doing easy mode who know the mechanics and can explain it to them(something I have yet to see in a delve after 3500 hours), or those people struggling to complete it can wait for more players to show up and turn the odds in their favor.
By the logic you are throwing at me, we should get rid of veteran dungeons and trials in favor of having only normal, otherwise the new players might never learn because everybody will be in vet? Yeah, get rid of veteran dungeons and trails and then add new vet only content, that's pretty much the sum of what your argument has been, is it not?
Except I've been saying over and over again that is exactly the place it needs to be. You are so wrapped up in your own argument you are completely cherry picking and ignoring what I'm actually saying to make your own statements seem better.
I said the place for increased difficulty is right there...trials and dungeons.
So, at this point, you aren't even coming with anything credible. You are just saying stuff to say it....
Okay.......... I'll stop challenging your opinions about what others should or shouldn't be allowed to do in this game.
I never said anything like that. I said I don't see a point ranking up difficulty in a place you blast through to get a single skyshard. That's my opinion. You of couse are free to disagree, doesn't mean I don't have a right to give it. You made contradicting points about a)not bothering doing them because they are boring/then saying you do them.. b)Wanting to blast through them to get to PvP/then saying you want to take your time and have your mind engaged...c) it's a waste of time/then saying how valuable the skill points from shards are...
You are all over the map...
And again, just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm telling people what to do. I'm just saying how it is. Can you rank up the difficulty of delves right now? Ok..that's a no, not because I said so, but because that's how it is. But, I am saying there is a place for higher difficulty and as the game stands right now, it's not delves. That's really the relevant part. Its like saying you want to turn the kiddie rollercoaster into some massive ride. What point would it serve, again, letting you run the thing in 7 minutes instead of 5? Ok.. That's not me telling you..that's Zos.
Again, you don't have anything substantial to say, you are just saying random things that aren't even making sense anymore. Nice try, though..
A ) I said I haven't done a lot of the delves because they are simply busy work right now. Therefore, I have a lot of skyshards (that I might need at some point) gated behind busy work content. This was in response to the "there's no reason to go back to them" argument. I am not going back because I have yet to go there on many of my characters. Clear enough?
B ) I want the skyshards so I can unlock passives. I currently blast through the delves because doing them normally doesn't engage my mind, because of a lack of difficulty. If they did in fact engage my mind I would gladly spend more time doing them properly.
C ) It's a waste of time because I could be doing something that does in fact engage my mind. That doesn't change the fact that I do in some cases need those skyshards to unlock passives or skills. My time is the most important thing, so I am going to leave the most boring (but necessary) content until last. Therefore I have plenty of delves which still need to be done, so a change like this could enhance that task when I decide to do it.
I am sorry that you think my opinions and experience in this game is all over the map. Nuance is an important thing when talking about game development, so I try my best to explain my opinions and give them honestly.
You say it is ZOS telling me I cannot have more difficulty in delves, except it is you in this thread making posts trying to dismiss our request because you think trials and group dungeons are enough. Also, before One Tamriel update, the delves in the 50+ and 50++ areas were more difficult than they are now, because those areas were aimed at veteran players. That is evidence that ZOS isn't against harder content in delves, but they sacrificed(rightly so) that delve difficulty for the benefit of opening up the whole world to every player.
When did you start playing this game? Did you experience 50+ and 50++ prior to One Tamriel?
So essentially.
You want difficulty so you have a reason to get Skyshards so you have a reason to play.
Methinks, that if your that uninterested in the game, instead of calling for the entire game to be changed to suit your needs, you would go out and find a game with the challenge you crave. It makes no sense to do this.
The only reason I support multiple dungeon difficulties is these people wont shut up and are a actual subset of the endgame PVE community which wouldn't take too much to sate, you on the other hand just seem like you need to find a new game. Because what you seem to want, is difficulty for it's own sake, and this game isn't designed around that.
Calling for the entire game to be changed? By supporting an idea for OPTIONAL difficulty setting only for delves?
I enjoy the end game in ESO, why would I look for another game?
You seem to confuse me wanting a change to happen for me needing that change to happen. I can easily speed run through the delves getting the skyshards, pulling a train of enemies past other players who are trying to play normally. How dare I support a change that would encourage me to also play it normally.
I dont think its a new game I need, but perhaps new forums. Its so toxic around here.[DC/NA]0 -
Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭The difficulty slider is your optional gear, passives, skill points, and cp. I know someone already ib4’d this point, but it’s pretty much the truth. You already have a difficulty slider at your disposal. No point adding redundancy just to satisfy some desired feeling of elitism.Edited by Bryanonymous on December 18, 2017 2:33PM1
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭terrordactyl1971 wrote: »Not sure why some people get so upset at an OPTIONAL difficulty setting for a small part of the solo content
Because it's the principle and reasoning I take issue with.
If you hate the game that much because of it's lack of difficulty, clearly the game isn't for you. I recently stopped playing a online game because I got too frustraited, you dont just go 'LET ME WIN'. That's unreasonable.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Are they not? New players often ask for advice or help. Who would advise them if everyone who knows anything isn't there? Not to mention all the new complaining that would arise from diffrent difficulty, like "Why are players level 45 in this vet++ delve" or like the recent post "Can we have a option for 690 delves only"...
Either way...it's absurd, and it's not going to happen. So, enjoy your easy content, because it is what it is. And it will continue to be. Your thinking is wishful, and it will be just that...
Delves =/= Group Dungeons
Delves =/= Public Dungeons
Delves =/= Zones
Delves are solo focused mini-dungeons.
Players usually ask for help in zone, or in group or public dungeons. This thread is not asking for different overland zones, just delves. I would not care if I saw level 45s in vet++ because if they knew how to play they would probably perform better than most CP690s.
Delves are not solo. Just because you are not in a group doesn't make them solo. You are not in them alone, instanced to you. They are shared.
Which is why I said solo focused.
I just don't see your point. If new players are struggling with a delve, surely there will be other people doing easy mode who know the mechanics and can explain it to them(something I have yet to see in a delve after 3500 hours), or those people struggling to complete it can wait for more players to show up and turn the odds in their favor.
By the logic you are throwing at me, we should get rid of veteran dungeons and trials in favor of having only normal, otherwise the new players might never learn because everybody will be in vet? Yeah, get rid of veteran dungeons and trails and then add new vet only content, that's pretty much the sum of what your argument has been, is it not?
Except I've been saying over and over again that is exactly the place it needs to be. You are so wrapped up in your own argument you are completely cherry picking and ignoring what I'm actually saying to make your own statements seem better.
I said the place for increased difficulty is right there...trials and dungeons.
So, at this point, you aren't even coming with anything credible. You are just saying stuff to say it....
Okay.......... I'll stop challenging your opinions about what others should or shouldn't be allowed to do in this game.
I never said anything like that. I said I don't see a point ranking up difficulty in a place you blast through to get a single skyshard. That's my opinion. You of couse are free to disagree, doesn't mean I don't have a right to give it. You made contradicting points about a)not bothering doing them because they are boring/then saying you do them.. b)Wanting to blast through them to get to PvP/then saying you want to take your time and have your mind engaged...c) it's a waste of time/then saying how valuable the skill points from shards are...
You are all over the map...
And again, just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm telling people what to do. I'm just saying how it is. Can you rank up the difficulty of delves right now? Ok..that's a no, not because I said so, but because that's how it is. But, I am saying there is a place for higher difficulty and as the game stands right now, it's not delves. That's really the relevant part. Its like saying you want to turn the kiddie rollercoaster into some massive ride. What point would it serve, again, letting you run the thing in 7 minutes instead of 5? Ok.. That's not me telling you..that's Zos.
Again, you don't have anything substantial to say, you are just saying random things that aren't even making sense anymore. Nice try, though..
A ) I said I haven't done a lot of the delves because they are simply busy work right now. Therefore, I have a lot of skyshards (that I might need at some point) gated behind busy work content. This was in response to the "there's no reason to go back to them" argument. I am not going back because I have yet to go there on many of my characters. Clear enough?
B ) I want the skyshards so I can unlock passives. I currently blast through the delves because doing them normally doesn't engage my mind, because of a lack of difficulty. If they did in fact engage my mind I would gladly spend more time doing them properly.
C ) It's a waste of time because I could be doing something that does in fact engage my mind. That doesn't change the fact that I do in some cases need those skyshards to unlock passives or skills. My time is the most important thing, so I am going to leave the most boring (but necessary) content until last. Therefore I have plenty of delves which still need to be done, so a change like this could enhance that task when I decide to do it.
I am sorry that you think my opinions and experience in this game is all over the map. Nuance is an important thing when talking about game development, so I try my best to explain my opinions and give them honestly.
You say it is ZOS telling me I cannot have more difficulty in delves, except it is you in this thread making posts trying to dismiss our request because you think trials and group dungeons are enough. Also, before One Tamriel update, the delves in the 50+ and 50++ areas were more difficult than they are now, because those areas were aimed at veteran players. That is evidence that ZOS isn't against harder content in delves, but they sacrificed(rightly so) that delve difficulty for the benefit of opening up the whole world to every player.
When did you start playing this game? Did you experience 50+ and 50++ prior to One Tamriel?
So essentially.
You want difficulty so you have a reason to get Skyshards so you have a reason to play.
Methinks, that if your that uninterested in the game, instead of calling for the entire game to be changed to suit your needs, you would go out and find a game with the challenge you crave. It makes no sense to do this.
The only reason I support multiple dungeon difficulties is these people wont shut up and are a actual subset of the endgame PVE community which wouldn't take too much to sate, you on the other hand just seem like you need to find a new game. Because what you seem to want, is difficulty for it's own sake, and this game isn't designed around that.
Calling for the entire game to be changed? By supporting an idea for OPTIONAL difficulty setting only for delves?
I enjoy the end game in ESO, why would I look for another game?
You seem to confuse me wanting a change to happen for me needing that change to happen. I can easily speed run through the delves getting the skyshards, pulling a train of enemies past other players who are trying to play normally. How dare I support a change that would encourage me to also play it normally.
I dont think its a new game I need, but perhaps new forums. Its so toxic around here.
Litterally almost all your comments are about how you dislike this game because it's not hard enough. Why would you not look for another game?
And you say you enjoy end game ESO. So what's actually there for you is fun to you. So why are you still doing delves? If it's just delves, and your just there for the skyshards, why are you complaining and trying to get the game changed which you spend so, little time on?
Also, disagreeing with you is toxic now?
You contradict yourself as to your wants, and over-reach beyond content that is designed for you. I'm not confused, I'm just pointing out how greedy you are being.
Edit: For some reason, the other post reposted again because ZOS's forums is weird. Whatever. Not fixin' it.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on December 18, 2017 3:10PM1 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do not accept this idea that players cp160 and above should not expect enjoyable content outside of pvp, vet trials and group dungeons. The toxic part is being called greedy and elitest for supporting the implementation of an option for increased difficulty in a relatively small part of the game.
I am more than willing to debate the details of a change like this, but I am done defending my opinions from people simply looking to shut me down by finding what they deem to be inconsistencies. You attack me like I have a hidden adjenda, simply because you disagree. It feels like you are protecting something from me, like your worried if ZOS reads my posts they will ruin the game you love to fix a game I hate. But I still havent gotten a good answer as to why this change would effect people happy with the current level of delve difficulty.[DC/NA]1 -
Dunnn✭✭✭Person A: "I think it would be a great idea to add optional difficulty levels for delves for those that want a bit more of a challenge."
Person B: "Why don't you just remove your CP and get rid of your armour if you want more of a challenge!"
If the addition of an optional difficulty toggle for delves doesn't actually effect those that don't want to use it, then what exactly is the problem?
If you're the type of player that doesn't want to make use of a feature like this, then what's the point of complaining about it? No one is sitting there with a gun to your head forcing you to choose a hypothetical increased difficulty setting, so why bother complaining or offering a stupid 'middle-ground' answer of unequipping gear and removing CP that you've spent hours grinding for?
Some posters on here absolutely baffle me.Swims-In-Coffee [Argonian Stamblade EP]
D'ar Nomad [Khajit Stamblade EP]
Pepe Sillvia [Wood Elf Stamblade EP]
Trips-Over-Tail [Argonian Crafter! EP]1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I do not accept this idea that players cp160 and above should not expect enjoyable content outside of pvp, vet trials and group dungeons. The toxic part is being called greedy and elitest for supporting the implementation of an option for increased difficulty in a relatively small part of the game.
I am more than willing to debate the details of a change like this, but I am done defending my opinions from people simply looking to shut me down by finding what they deem to be inconsistencies. You attack me like I have a hidden adjenda, simply because you disagree. It feels like you are protecting something from me, like your worried if ZOS reads my posts they will ruin the game you love to fix a game I hate. But I still havent gotten a good answer as to why this change would effect people happy with the current level of delve difficulty.
The only one who decides for you what 'enjoyable content' is, is you. Dont make it out like we're forcing you to break rocks or something.
And, I never called you elitist. But I am going to repeatedly call you greedy for trying to alter a part of the game you barely play, because that's what it is. And I dont particularly think that's toxic, especially when I'm actively attempting to be nice about this.
And quite frankly? I am protecting something from you. I've done too much research, and seen too many games die or take massive damage to they're player count and quality by trying to cater to the hardcore audience too much. Everyone goes 'lawl, noobs cant handle it' for one or two months. Then the game shuts down, and everyone scratches they're heads as to why.
Simply put, it wouldn't. But look at most of the class changes every patch notes, do you honestly trust them to impliment something like this well? I dont anymore.
Edit: To the post above this one, you can object on grounds like, say, I object to this on a philisophical level. I dont think that's the word I'm looking for but it's all that springs to mind, as I have done. Most of this springs from greed. I'm all for optional difficulties for vet dungeons, but anything more, simply does not equate. People want a difficulty increase for content they barely play to make them want the rewards said content gives them. That's a personal issue and I'll continue to call it where I see it.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on December 18, 2017 4:37PM1 -
Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭Person A: "I think it would be a great idea to add optional difficulty levels for delves for those that want a bit more of a challenge."
Person B: "Why don't you just remove your CP and get rid of your armour if you want more of a challenge!"
If the addition of an optional difficulty toggle for delves doesn't actually effect those that don't want to use it, then what exactly is the problem?
If you're the type of player that doesn't want to make use of a feature like this, then what's the point of complaining about it? No one is sitting there with a gun to your head forcing you to choose a hypothetical increased difficulty setting, so why bother complaining or offering a stupid 'middle-ground' answer of unequipping gear and removing CP that you've spent hours grinding for?
Some posters on here absolutely baffle me.
Do you realize the same could easily be said the other way around? No one is sitting there forcing you to grind for the best stuff or min/max your stats to the point that there is no challenge. That’s a choice. And playing without armor is not a stupid idea, it’s a solution to a dilemma. Fact is, this idea like many will fall into the abyss. You can take advise and make the best of it or continue to hope for a redundant feature which would be far down the list of priorities for most players. See, it’s not about if it does or does not affect us, it’s about priorities. It seems those who disagree feel there are better features that could be focused on and I agree with them.Edited by Bryanonymous on December 18, 2017 4:39PM2 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see, so its like those people who sit in the fast lane on the highway going the speed limit. Forcing everyone behind them to slow down. You think you are saving the world, when in reality you are just pissing people off and making it more dangerous for everyone because you are impeding the flow of traffic.[DC/NA]0 -
Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭It’s nothing like that but if rationalizing it like that makes you feel better, then so be it. It’s all hypothetical what ifs anyways, so if we are slowing you down, it’s hypothetically.2
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I see, so its like those people who sit in the fast lane on the highway going the speed limit. Forcing everyone behind them to slow down. You think you are saving the world, when in reality you are just pissing people off and making it more dangerous for everyone because you are impeding the flow of traffic.
...Not particularly.
You can try to play me up that way but that's not what's going on. Your fun often comes at the express cost of everyone elses, because difficulty starts at a design level. In fact, it's much more accurate to reverse the rolls since it's your wants that screw with everyone else, whether you realize it or not.
It's also worth noting, it's usually not a request for an optional mode. And most people are not interested in an optional mode. And when you ask 'could this be optional', they laugh at you. And I'm still not convinced ZOS would make it optional.
For people like you, and I mean specifically like you, who want the tiniest expense of your time to be a difficult game catered to your interest, it will never stop at optional difficulty. It'll start there. But eventually it'll be, all new development is dedicated to content that only you would enjoy, and the rest of us get to go screw. Seen it happen before, not interested in seeing it happen again.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on December 18, 2017 5:25PM0 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »I see, so its like those people who sit in the fast lane on the highway going the speed limit. Forcing everyone behind them to slow down. You think you are saving the world, when in reality you are just pissing people off and making it more dangerous for everyone because you are impeding the flow of traffic.
...Not particularly.
You can try to play me up that way but that's not what's going on. Your fun often comes at the express cost of everyone elses, because difficulty starts at a design level. In fact, it's much more accurate to reverse the rolls since it's your wants that screw with everyone else, whether you realize it or not.
It's also worth noting, it's usually not a request for an optional mode. And most people are not interested in an optional mode. And when you ask 'could this be optional', they laugh at you. And I'm still not convinced ZOS would make it optional.
For people like you, and I mean specifically like you, who want the tiniest expense of your time to be a difficult game catered to your interest, it will never stop at optional difficulty. It'll start there. But eventually it'll be, all new development is dedicated to content that only you would enjoy, and the rest of us get to go screw. Seen it happen before, not interested in seeing it happen again.
You're having a different conversation than this thread. You are talking about a possible future that exists only inside your head, when this thread is about one specific change.[DC/NA]0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »I see, so its like those people who sit in the fast lane on the highway going the speed limit. Forcing everyone behind them to slow down. You think you are saving the world, when in reality you are just pissing people off and making it more dangerous for everyone because you are impeding the flow of traffic.
...Not particularly.
You can try to play me up that way but that's not what's going on. Your fun often comes at the express cost of everyone elses, because difficulty starts at a design level. In fact, it's much more accurate to reverse the rolls since it's your wants that screw with everyone else, whether you realize it or not.
It's also worth noting, it's usually not a request for an optional mode. And most people are not interested in an optional mode. And when you ask 'could this be optional', they laugh at you. And I'm still not convinced ZOS would make it optional.
For people like you, and I mean specifically like you, who want the tiniest expense of your time to be a difficult game catered to your interest, it will never stop at optional difficulty. It'll start there. But eventually it'll be, all new development is dedicated to content that only you would enjoy, and the rest of us get to go screw. Seen it happen before, not interested in seeing it happen again.
You're having a different conversation than this thread. You are talking about a possible future that exists only inside your head, when this thread is about one specific change.
And you seem intent on villifying me. Your perfectly happy to differ from the topic when it suits you. Your at peace with making posts taking shots at me in they're entirety, but suddenly when I do the same, it's off topic? Oh -please-.
Eitherway. I'm fine with dungeons geting more difficulty modes, it's a good compromise for that audience. But anythng more, I think is somewhat unecessary.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on December 18, 2017 5:59PM0 -
terrordactyl1971✭✭✭✭I feel like I fall between 2 stools
The massive amount of overland content is too easy, but soloing a group dungeon is too hard.
Why cant we have tiered bands of difficulty as your character progresses?1