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Radiant mounts are the reason loot box laws should exist

Aliyavana
Aliyavana
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The initial gem system guaranteed you would earn the mount you wanted after a certain amount of investing into this horrible gamble system. Many people have 1000s of gems and yet do not have that one unbuyable mount they want because rng, the one mechanic that plagued every aspect of eso. I'm supportive of cosmetics only loot boxes but only in games if there is a way to guarantee you will get the item you want with gems and if not then that's predatory
Edited by Aliyavana on November 28, 2017 10:19PM
  • Davor
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    I really hope this becomes illegal. I mean I don't like this practice and would love that Zenimax actually make a good playable game instead of relying on sleazy tactics to make money. If ESO was an excellent game then it wouldn't need loot boxes for Zenimax to make money.

    Make sure the servers work for EVERYONE. If people can't play their games because of server issues, reimburse them if they paid for it. Like why am I paying ESO+ if I can't play the game?

    How about selling things that people want to buy? Don't ask ridiculous prices. Make it feel like we are getting the stuff we buy worth it, instead of relying on a few people, rely on many people.

    So make an awesome product that people want to give you money.
    Not my quote but I love this saying

    "I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"
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  • Raideen
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    I agree @Davor. I miss the days when games were made to be fun first, and if the game was really well done it made tons of money by default. ESO seems to be turning into a game where they make the game to make you spend money on top of a sub before the fun comes in (note, for many people the "fun" is collecting stuff).

    I hope cash shops become illegal along with scam crates so that game companies are forced into making their games fun first and foremost.
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  • redspecter23
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    At minimum, they should be required to tell us the odds of any given item. It feels like a shady scam if they aren't willing to share that information. Why withhold that information if it's completely legit?
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  • KhajiitHasSkooma
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    Thank you for putting it far more eloquently then I did in my post about this!
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  • monktoasty
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    At minimum, they should be required to tell us the odds of any given item. It feels like a shady scam if they aren't willing to share that information. Why withhold that information if it's completely legit?

    In China they just passed a law forcing them to do it.

    But really..things like odds should be freely given to consumers no laws should have to be made but sadly these companies are shady criminals
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  • JWKe
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    Lols best way to make a change is not on the forums. Go contact you local representatives and have them bring it up with the highest court.
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  • RGvolterra
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    The night frost atronach steed is the only reason why I would buy some crates however by placing it as part of a rare drop makes my dream just turn out to be a nightmare. The drop rate has been ridiculously low considering that any of my friends after opening more than 15 crates could get a single flame atronach mount. Based on my friends attempts I won’t be able to get the night frost steed and trying hard to get it would mean gambling which is a lack of respect to all of us who have supported ESO since day one. So sad and disappointing the direction the game is heading. ZOS should at least make it possible for us to get that desirable mount or item after buying a certain amount of creates or by collecting a specific amount of gems. Here’s my indignation and hope they can make it possible for us to get the things that we really want instead of relying on gambling.
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  • Rawkan
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    At the end of the day, these are still cosmetics. They don't give you any kind of advantage in the actual game. People buying crates and getting unlucky know what they signed up for.
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  • tplink3r1
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    Please government, evil Zenimax won't let me get my shiny mount, so ban crates.
    VR16 Templar
    VR3 Sorcerer
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  • Mureel
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    tplink3r1 wrote: »
    Please government, evil Zenimax won't let me get my shiny mount, so ban crates.

    This.

    All the whining because people think they're entitled to win the top prize makes me LOL and also SMH.

    STOP BUYING THE CRATES, THEN!

    YOU DO NOT NEED THE RAREST MOUNT.
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  • Gilliamtherogue
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    Raideen wrote: »
    I agree @Davor. I miss the days when games were made to be fun first, and if the game was really well done it made tons of money by default. ESO seems to be turning into a game where they make the game to make you spend money on top of a sub before the fun comes in (note, for many people the "fun" is collecting stuff).

    I hope cash shops become illegal along with scam crates so that game companies are forced into making their games fun first and foremost.

    This is something game companies seemingly have forgotten over the years. Business teams look for profits and ways to directly make money, rather than looking at the bigger picture of investment and interaction. If you make a stellar game, with solid performance and high replay ability; you have a growing population since more people come in than leave. This leaves you at a net with a subscription (or well implement optional sub) based product. Yet it doesn't stop there.

    A good game that has players coming back for more continues to make even MORE money with the concept of cosmetics. If you get people invested in playing the game, they'll also be more interested in vanity. Drop 10 bucks here for a costume, some crowns here for a skin, etc. The crown store isn't inherently a bad idea, infact it'd be ingenious if they prioritized making the game function better- since people would actually have incentive to buy the cosmetics from them.

    If your business model is only to hold and retain, rather than to grow and expand; consumers will lose interest in the optional aspect. Why waste money on that mount if all my friends are leaving? If no one is around to appreciate the things that make you stick out, there's no reason to get it. I truly hope they begin reevaluating some of the business stances they've taken, and begin taking more risks into funding expansion and improvement of the game itself instead of just trying to make some quick bucks here and there.
    Edited by Gilliamtherogue on November 29, 2017 5:42AM
    Old member of The Order of Mundus, Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. How far we've come!

    Have questions? Send me a message on the forums or my other social media. Seeing people learn is my dream and passion.

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  • NyassaV
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    Gilliam couldn't be more correct in his assertion

    What really annoys me about drop rates is that some noob who just picked up the game a month ago and has like no CP or anything just randomly ends up getting the BiS crown mount. While the people who have invested hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours, are left out
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
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  • LadyAstrum
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    Mureel wrote: »
    tplink3r1 wrote: »
    Please government, evil Zenimax won't let me get my shiny mount, so ban crates.

    This.

    All the whining because people think they're entitled to win the top prize makes me LOL and also SMH.

    STOP BUYING THE CRATES, THEN!

    YOU DO NOT NEED THE RAREST MOUNT.

    Keep scoffing, but when a game is designed to limit cosmetic items (and mounts) to a cash shop, people want value for money, not to be fleeced. Entitlement would see people asking for free items. They are not. They are asking for fair practices, not sneaky sales schemes designed to siphon as much money as possible.

    Remember: not even half of ESO's cosmetics are available in-game, and part of playing MMO's is the desire to put your own mark onto your character, and we do that partially via cosmetics.

    If a lot of these items were available to earn in-game then I would agree with your "you're just entitled" argument, but there are few cosmetic items in-game, and a pathetic selection of mounts. Of course people are going to want something more exciting. ZoS knows this. Clearly, you don't.
    ~ "You think me brutish? How do you imagine I view you?" - Molag Bal #misunderstood ~
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  • Davor
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    Rawkan wrote: »
    At the end of the day, these are still cosmetics. They don't give you any kind of advantage in the actual game. People buying crates and getting unlucky know what they signed up for.

    Please, explain how. I didn't know nothing about being unlucky when I signed up. When I signed up there was no crown crates. When I got the free one, I didn't know there was odds and that the odds are less than 1% or what ever it is for some items.

    I got no explanation in game giving me all the details. I don't live my life on the internet and know everything going on in the forums or what is going on. So how am I and other people suppose to know if Zenimax never said anything about them?
    Not my quote but I love this saying

    "I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"
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  • Hanokihs
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    LadyAstrum wrote: »
    Mureel wrote: »
    tplink3r1 wrote: »
    Please government, evil Zenimax won't let me get my shiny mount, so ban crates.

    This.

    All the whining because people think they're entitled to win the top prize makes me LOL and also SMH.

    STOP BUYING THE CRATES, THEN!

    YOU DO NOT NEED THE RAREST MOUNT.

    Keep scoffing, but when a game is designed to limit cosmetic items (and mounts) to a cash shop, people want value for money, not to be fleeced. Entitlement would see people asking for free items. They are not. They are asking for fair practices, not sneaky sales schemes designed to siphon as much money as possible.

    Remember: not even half of ESO's cosmetics are available in-game, and part of playing MMO's is the desire to put your own mark onto your character, and we do that partially via cosmetics.

    If a lot of these items were available to earn in-game then I would agree with your "you're just entitled" argument, but there are few cosmetic items in-game, and a pathetic selection of mounts. Of course people are going to want something more exciting. ZoS knows this. Clearly, you don't.

    I largely agree with you. Most of this stuff should be available through in-game play, but instead, anything seemed to be even remotely popular is locked behind the crate wall. In fact, I say ditch the dye rewards and replace them with Apex/radiant tier items, and put the crayons in the crown shop. That'd be the best possible way, with the systems and items we have.

    However. I also think a lot of players are entitled. Many who want to get rid of the crates and put the items up for direct purchase only mention they're willing to pay something to the tune of 1500-3000 crowns for those things. I'm always like, "Well it doesn't matter for you, then, cause you wouldn't want to afford them anyway." Considering that every 30 crates is 10k crowns, people better start bandying about a lot of higher figures if they want anyone's attention.

    People are all about spending if they seem prices are affordable, and they're all about considering things affordable as long as they're cheap. Cheap doesn't change minds and change the status quo - not when it's competing against cash.
    "I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum.
    "I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.
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  • BloodBeast_ESO
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    Wow this is got to be the saltiest thread I have ever seen on this entire forum, OP you really think anything's going to change? No not one thing will change it's a game company if you don't like the game don't play it. it's that simple
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  • Raideen
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    Wow this is got to be the saltiest thread I have ever seen on this entire forum, OP you really think anything's going to change? No not one thing will change it's a game company if you don't like the game don't play it. it's that simple

    And what will happen when all these people leave the game and take their monthly sub with them? What will happen when friends lists dry up, and guilds go empty?

    The people you are mocking for expressing their dissatisfaction are CUSTOMERS. These are the same people who keep the game running. I would suggest you have sympathy for their plight before they find something else to play (as you suggest) and the game is left with paltry player base who do not have the combined income to sustain the necessary profit ZoS expects to make.




    Edited by Raideen on December 9, 2017 2:56PM
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  • Slick_007
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    Raideen wrote: »

    And what will happen when all these people leave the game and take their monthly sub with them? What will happen when friends lists dry up, and guilds go empty?

    nothing. there arent enough people willing to put their money where their mouth is so to speak. and some of those people are not paying customers according to their own signatures. So the game will lose a bunch of freeloaders. That will hurt about... no, it wont hurt a bit.
    The people you are mocking for expressing their dissatisfaction are CUSTOMERS. These are the same people who keep the game running. I would suggest you have sympathy for their plight before they find something else to play (as you suggest) and the game is left with paltry player base who do not have the combined income to sustain the necessary profit ZoS expects to make.

    In another thread you told everyone how you repeatedly quit games because of crates and how you havent been here long. You dont get to come in here and whine about them being in the game with your history. They were here first and i highly doubt you didnt know that before you joined.
    Edited by Slick_007 on December 10, 2017 10:53AM
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  • Raideen
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    Slick_007 wrote: »
    nothing. there arent enough people willing to put their money where their mouth is so to speak. and some of those people are not paying customers according to their own signatures. So the game will lose a bunch of freeloaders. That will hurt about... no, it wont hurt a bit.

    Your statement further proves your lack of understanding of this subject. In fact much of the people who are complaining do so because they are tired of spending tons of money in this game when other games offer more for less. People are tired of reskins, a lack of content (Halloween and 10 million event being dismal). People are tired of subscribing and then being asked to spend more money when they want a cosmetic item, that again other games offer as loot drops for 15 bucks a month.

    But secondly. IF you were correct (which is not the case), players would still leave and friends lists would still dry up, and guilds would dry up and as I already stated in my last post, the whales would leave too when their friends are all gone.

    Slick_007 wrote: »
    [
    In another thread you told everyone how you repeatedly quit games because of crates and how you havent been here long. You dont get to come in here and whine about them being in the game with your history. They were here first and i highly doubt you didnt know that before you joined.

    As always you miss the crux of the conversation. My first post on these forums was about value. Games that offer more content for less money are a better value than games that offer less content for more money. SWTOR, and GW2 did not offer enough content for the money based on the industry standards set by Everquest, World of Warcraft, Star Wars Galaxies, etc.

    My point in that thread was that when players feel that a company constantly has their hands in the players pocket, grabbing for more, that people leave those games.

    As its already been stated numerous times, in numerous posts, why are the people who RP or who like to play MMORPGS to collect the ones who must weather the burden of supplying this game with a constant stream of cash?

    I personally think ZoS is missing on a great opportunity to make more money by charging crowns for instance runs.

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  • Hokiewa
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    Standards changed in the gaming industry over a decade ago. You cite as industry standards one behemoth that has switched to everything you hate, a dying legacy game, and a game that was shut down 6 years ago. The two existing games changed their "standards" to adapt to market conditions. Both of those games have subs, cash shops, purchasable DLC. Not a great comparison.
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  • Whatzituyah
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    @Hokiewa How about Final Fantasy 14 Heavensward and Final Fantasy 11? Final Fantasy 14 has just a cash shop but the game has alot of content and Final Fantasy 11 might be discontinued but it got no cash shop with lots of content. Ile admit they both have subs.
    Edited by Whatzituyah on December 14, 2017 5:31PM
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  • Slick_007
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    Raideen wrote: »

    In fact much of the people who are complaining do so because they are tired of spending tons of money in this game when other games offer more for less. People are tired of reskins, a lack of content (Halloween and 10 million event being dismal). People are tired of subscribing and then being asked to spend more money when they want a cosmetic item, that again other games offer as loot drops for 15 bucks a month.

    "much" of the people who are complaining have stated they will never buy crates nor spend any money on the game at all, including subs, til crates go. These people are NOT tired of spending "tons of money", they are in fact spending NO money.


    As always you miss the crux of the conversation. My first post on these forums was about value. Games that offer more content for less money are a better value than games that offer less content for more money. SWTOR, and GW2 did not offer enough content for the money based on the industry standards set by Everquest, World of Warcraft, Star Wars Galaxies, etc.

    YOU joined a game, that someone with your vast experience of MMO's knew the details of, then spend all your time complaining about how much you hate the company that runs it and hate this and that within the game. if you like those games so much, go back and play them and stop complaining about eso. ESO is not those games, nor do we want it to be. If we did, we'd be playing those games instead. Normal people dont go and spend their free time doing something they clearly hate.
    My point in that thread was that when players feel that a company constantly has their hands in the players pocket, grabbing for more, that people leave those games.

    But it hasnt changed since you joined it. Dont like it? dont play it. and dont spend all your time complaining about it.
    As its already been stated numerous times, in numerous posts, why are the people who RP or who like to play MMORPGS to collect the ones who must weather the burden of supplying this game with a constant stream of cash?

    That simply is not true. RP'ers do not weather the burden of anything. Sure, collectors would put in a bit, but that is the same of anything where someone collects stuff.

    I personally think ZoS is missing on a great opportunity to make more money by charging crowns for instance runs.

    and now we definitively know you are a troll.
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  • Rainraven
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    Wow this is got to be the saltiest thread I have ever seen on this entire forum, OP you really think anything's going to change? No not one thing will change it's a game company if you don't like the game don't play it. it's that simple

    Really? Do you read the PVP sections? :D
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  • Raideen
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    Slick_007 wrote: »
    "much" of the people who are complaining have stated they will never buy crates nor spend any money on the game at all, including subs, til crates go. These people are NOT tired of spending "tons of money", they are in fact spending NO money.

    Not true even in the slightest. I have seen many people say they have no issues with stores, or subs but that they have issues with random loot crates. You are completely delusional if you think people who "never spend money" are the core of the group who have issues with loot crates. In FACT the very reason people HAVE issues with the loot crates is because they have tried them, seen the pathetic results and realized its a complete waste of money, and a cash grab. These folks rarely get what they wanted from the loot crates (the reason for purchasing them in the first place. There are so many holes in your statement it's laughable.
    Slick_007 wrote: »
    YOU joined a game, that someone with your vast experience of MMO's knew the details of, then spend all your time complaining about how much you hate the company that runs it and hate this and that within the game. if you like those games so much, go back and play them and stop complaining about eso. ESO is not those games, nor do we want it to be. If we did, we'd be playing those games instead. Normal people dont go and spend their free time doing something they clearly hate.
    I have noticed a common thread in every single post you make, and that is you take the OP's post completely out of context, interject your own words and twist it into meaning something they did not intend. This is the very definition of making an attempt to defame a persons name. Thank you once again for proving my point.
    #1 I never said I hate ZoS, in fact I stated on a number of times that I LOVE Bethesda and have for a very long time. In FACt I even called out the amazing titles they have worked on over the years, and true to every thread with you, you missed the point again. The VERY REASON I am complaining is because I DO like the company and I DO like their products.

    Pro-tip. When you have a relationship with a business, or frankly another person communication is the best way to solve issues. Part of voicing opinions on forums to companies is the customer voicing their opinion. You clearly fail to realize that part of the customer/business relationship is that good commentary comes with bad commentary. I suggest you read my signature to understand more about business.
    Slick_007 wrote: »
    "But it hasnt changed since you joined it. Dont like it? dont play it. and dont spend all your time complaining about it.
    It's not your job, your business, nor your right to tell me what to do. IF I don't like the direction a company is taking, I will voice my opinion and I will voice it loudly. Its my right as a paying customer. If you don't like it, ignore me, but I suggest you get off my back and stop harassing me.
    Slick_007 wrote: »
    "
    That simply is not true. RP'ers do not weather the burden of anything. Sure, collectors would put in a bit, but that is the same of anything where someone collects stuff.

    Yes, its absolutely true. RPers and collectors are going to be your prime group of people who want new outfits, new mounts, new pets etc. Except that you cant get any mounts in game outside of the 4 horses, pets are paltry and outfits are the same. If an RPer or collector want any of these items, they must dish out a much much greater sum of money than someone who does not craft or collect.
    Slick_007 wrote: »
    "
    and now we definitively know you are a troll.
    No, you just fail to take that comment in context with my statement about RPers and collectors being focus targeted.

    I'd explain it again, but you missed it the first time when it was clearly written out. Honest question. Is English your primary language. I am pretty confident at this point in saying I believe you and I have a communication error.

    Edited by Raideen on December 15, 2017 4:48PM
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