Nerouyn wrote: »

Level scaling is awesome.

Now you can play through maps at your leisure, enjoying the story in sequence.

Before if you did that, you'd quickly outlevel maps, meaning you'd either have to move onto a new map before finishing the current one, or settle for crappy loot and xp.

The story you refer to was written with leveling in mind... hopping from zone to zone will do anything but let you enjoy the story in sequence.

SkoomaHoover wrote: »

You see I don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds?

If we have level scaling for generic enemies that you'll encounter around the world on the road and then when it comes down to missions or dungeons etc. there can be set levels. These don't have to be leveled per area, but levelled randomly scattered around the world. Maybe even have some scaled dungeons and missions. I mean it's not like this game is short of quests for this to work.

That way you'd still be able to travel around the world freely and pick up missions in different areas. However you'll also have that risk factor and excitement where you encounter a strong enemy that you can't defeat and may have to run away. It'll help those that feel like they aren't progressing and it'll also be cool for those people that want to be able to go everywhere and perhaps also help people who feel like the game loses challenge?

I don't know. I just feel like adding the level scaling is just a cheap solution to ESO's problems. They could have handled it better.

First, you necro'd this thread. Probably better to have started a new one.

Your suggestion would still hinder people from taking time to enjoy some of the DLC's or Morrowind before completing main zones.

While it is not perfect I still feel 1T is the best change ZOS has done to the game.

Scaling is amazing. Finally my low level mates can play with me together with almost do drawbacks. If you don't feel more powerful when you level up aomething is wrong with your build.

the only problem i find with the current battle scaling is the lack of easy start area and harder later area.
the zones should be labeled as easy, adept, expert difficulty

kmontywrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to let you know that level scaling has made this game unplayable for me. I get that a lot of people like it, and that's a good thing. It just destroys any progression for me. It's no longer an RPG.

I wish I'd remembered that before buying back into the game (after leaving it during the trial). My fault. If the game ever reverts, I'll be back, as it's beautiful and compelling in all other regards.

The real difference shows when you hit CP 160+ and want to visit more than just a few relevant areas. The entire game becomes an end game zone, as opposed to the 4 or 5 you’ll see in most other games.

It’s really nice after you’ve been playing the same character for several months at the higher levels.

Fair enough. For me it's probably the best thing that's happened to the game, but each to their own.

I like the scaling compared to other games. No matter what your level you can play with other toons and don't have to worry about zones and quests.

I don't feel like I've out leveled a zone and therefore never go back to it.

Games like wow have lots of empty zones and everyone is crowded in the level cap zone.
No fun there once you've done all the quests.

geonsocal wrote: »

progression should come with a better understanding of game mechanics and most importantly - an increase in a players skill level...

I totally agree. Instead of focusing on the leveling treadmill, you focus on other aspects.

STEVIL wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

the only problem i find with the current battle scaling is the lack of easy start area and harder later area.
the zones should be labeled as easy, adept, expert difficulty

Well, I would argue that the main alliance zones still have that progression. The starter zones typically have single enemies. Later zones progress to groups of two and then three. Not a huge difference Auridon is generally easier than Reaper's March.

Agree completely.

that was IMO one of the failings with morrowind being presented as a new place to start characters. Its play and scenarios is very much "seasoned character" focused and leveling while questing will be slow and sluggish compared to the original started zones and islands - not to mention rather difficult in bad ways for things like sneakery quests and such.

There was also a feeling of "job half done" that was introduced into the game with One Tamriel. It's not just that the legacy zone order is still the best way for a true new player to play due to subtle difficulty differences in zones, it's also that the main narrative makes the most sense when done that way having the story build as you go through one Alliance's zones in order with the main Prophet and guild quests every few levels culminating in the meeting of the three leaders and then Coldharbour.

Hell if a new player has Morrowind there is nothing in the new tutorial or anywhere else that points them in that direction. They would need to stumble onto the second prison tutorial to get them started and for that they would need to not follow the Vvardenfell quests which is where the game wants them to go, and port to their own Alliance's starting city.

There are a lot of things I like about the new system, including never outleveling areas which used to be a pain, but narrative cohesion isn't one of them.

What? No power progression? So all class and skill lines were maxed out for you? You were level 12 in full rubedo armor? If so, please tell me the magical way to have everything maxed out as a new character.

The only thing I’d say is CP should only be shared among characters once at level 50.

kmontywrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to let you know that level scaling has made this game unplayable for me. I get that a lot of people like it, and that's a good thing. It just destroys any progression for me. It's no longer an RPG.

I wish I'd remembered that before buying back into the game (after leaving it during the trial). My fault. If the game ever reverts, I'll be back, as it's beautiful and compelling in all other regards.

oh beware the fan boi's who dont play the whole game anyhow . plenty to pick at you as they dont do any type of end game content. and when they do its tears about how unfair and hard it is.

Yeah...I probably wouldn't play this game without One Tamriel and scaling levels.

To the rest of you, tough cookies yo.

Three month necro, nice.

I've seen something like this complaint in even skill-based MMOs. The problem is people's perceptions of what levels are in an RPG. Levels were not something meant to say your character can now kill an entire army of bandits in one sword swing. Notice how there are level 10 bandits in some games and then level 70 bandits later? How are bandits on the same level as heroic godlike heroes who obtained the Master Sword when those heroes can one shot low level bandits?

The answer lies in the word 'experience'. Levels are gained through experience. Experience points represent your knowledge of combat slowly increasing to the point that an enemy becomes less threatening. All RPG attacks are representations of an actual battle, not meant to be taken literally. How many meteors can a guy survive to the face? Why would you be able to Meteor while UNDERGROUND? RPG logic is all in the realm of metaphors and representations. Experience is one of those that just says you have learned bandit tactics and can now dodge their stabs and knife them in the heart. But this new bandit is trickier and employing tactics you've never seen before, clearly he is a challenge that you need "experience" fighting before it becomes easier.

Levels have always been a means of gating content in a game, barring players from being capable of facing more dangerous threats until they have the right knowledge, equipment, and experience in battle to have a reasonable chance at actually succeeding. Otherwise you get a game that relys heavily on RNG and you might accidentally kill an elite boss that you weren't supposed to be able to kill yet. Not all of the old RPGs prevented players from progressing through story walls. Some just put super powerful mobs in your way to say "Don't go this way yet" and players were meant to run away from those encounters.

It's just painful though to hear players in D&D think that their character can somehow survive getting stabbed by a sword fourteen times. That's not what HP represents, it's a scale. The more you have, the less effective that sword swing actually was. Maybe it only grazed you instead of penetrating through your shoulder. I'm sorry but you cannot "tank" bullets with your skin, nor can anyone survive a giant robot firing 80,000 bullets and then a missile on top of it if they all actually hit you the way the animation makes it seem. These are all just to appeal to the audience, the rule of cool, and not literal events. The boss isn't stupid for not killing you at level 10 when he's level 60. If you had fought him at level 10, he'd probably be level 12.

Content in a singleplayer story RPG is already scaled through the progression lineup to always be at your level, not because the universe just happened to set up enemies in level order for you to face or destiny just magically works that way. It's just to represent experience and training. If you grind before progressing to get to a higher level then you are effectively "training" before battle to make the coming fights easier. If you once suffered from instant death from a golem attack and now can take fourteen of the same attack to the face, your character did not suddenly turn into Iron Man.

Because experience and levels are a representation, a scaling representation where you can be less farmed or more farmed according to how much training time you invest, scaling itself doesn't break an RPG. Lots of skill-based games already have it and ESO is basically one of those. Imagine the levels don't even exist, you still progress 1 to 50 by unlocking new skill lines, leveling up old ones to be stronger 1-4 and morph them, and acquiring better and better set/enchantment selection through crafting and income progress. Not to mention your horse riding training, your research, and your CPs. ESO denies you the ability to outlevel the enemy or face against overleveled enemies but it's still every bit a true RPG with similar scaling to what most of them already have built into story mode.