A Thoughtful Reevaluation on Obtaining Emperorship

IEatCivics · December 2017

I've seen a lot of destructive ideas on how to change Cyrodiil since it's "not fair" how hard it is to get Emp. I get it, I got EMP and it was me not sleeping ever and grinding with a guild while on a friggen support warden, so I couldn't bomb my way through AP.

How about this change to Cyrodiil which makes it a viable way to gain more type of "Emp Status" characters without making it a welfare system. This will also make groups go after the many different objective that are largely ignored because we have no really good enough reason to do them.

1. Emperor/Empress: Have all the keeps around Imp City (As it is now)
/Current Buffs that are live in game
Emp will be lost just as it is lost in game so it will change hands just as it does now.

2. King/Queen: Your Faction having the highest scoring in the campaign overall.
/ 5% less buffed than EMP
King/Queen status on a character will be loss when,
1. When a faction overtakes a faction in overall scoring (Resetting the clock to a fresh 12 hour cycle)
2. Is cycled every 12 hours to the highest person on the scoreboards of the winning faction. If the winning faction already has an Emp, then it will go to 2nd place on the scoreboard for example.

3. Prince/Princess: Your faction having the highest Potential Points Gained at an Evaluation.
/ 5% Less buffed than King/Queen
Prince/Princess status on a character will be loss when,
1. A new Potential Points Gained Cycle occurs.
a. If the same faction has the highest potential Points Gained, but a new character exceeds the currently crowned Prince/Princess, the title will go to the New Player with the highest AP on the Scoreboard.

4. Duke/Duchess: Your Faction having every scroll
/ 5% Less buffed than Prince/Princess
Duke/Duchess is lost when,
1. Your faction does not have control of all scrolls. If 5 scrolls are in keeps/temples your faction controls and 1 is on the field, Duke/Duchess status will not be lost until the other faction places at least 1 scroll in one of their own controlled Temples/Keeps.

5. Lord/Lady: Having all the flags in the Imp City (Make it work exactly as it works in Cyrodiil).
/ 5% Less buffed than Duke/Duchess
Lord/Lady lost when,
Works exactly the same as EMP, just with the flags.

6. Count/Countess: AP Dump where a faction sacrifices a large amount of AP to gain a Count/Countess once every 12 hours, minimum of 6mil AP per cycle. All AP dumped by all factions is lost, even if you don't get Count/Countess status.(Some number that would hurt & similar to the system we have to get trading spots.).
/ 5% Less buffed than Lord/Lady
Count/Countess is lost,
1. Every 12 hours when another faction sacrifices at least the minimum of 6million AP and also donates more than every other faction.

All of these "Emps" could exist at the same time so one faction could have 6 "Emps Status" toons (1st - 6th place in Board), each faction have 2 emps etc etc.

How this Changes Cyrodiil PvP

This would create many people who have major buffs fighting above and under ground and keep each title just as rare since they all have different "Titles"

This would also move those dominate groups/guilds to try to obtain all the different titles for many of their members so some instead of them just farming AP or running circles around EMP keeps.

This would also make it that the group with EMP won't just steam roll everyone. Your faction may not have Emp, but you have a Countess & Prince which you can use to take down & Dethrone the EMP.

Other Ideas

You could also change the "Buff" each title has. Maybe the Prince/Princess just give/have a Defense buff instead of a weaker version of the Emp buffs and the Count/Countess have a Offensive Buff, the Lord/Lady a Mount Speed Buff. We could get creative with this.

What you guys think?

Mayrael · December 2017

Its still based on leaderboards, and those are based on APs. Till title gains are bound to APs, every single title will be handed over to farmers. To became an emp you should be the one that had the biggest influence on alliance scoring and in general domination, the one that tries to be everywhere to help his alliance, not the one who runs from farm to lumber and back or runs in circles on the walls of a keep.

IEatCivics · December 2017

Reserved

Mayrael wrote: »

Its still based on leaderboards, and those are based on APs. Till title gains are bound to APs, every single title will be handed over to farmers. To became an emp you should be the one that had the biggest influence on alliance scoring and in general domination, the one that tries to be everywhere to help his alliance, not the one who runs from farm to lumber and back or runs in circles on the walls of a keep.

This starts, is a step in a way, to make it that AP reflects your influence on the campaign and not just who farms AP in legitimate or in less legitimate ways. Making many of these different activities ways of gaining a "Emp Status" also breaks up a lot of the most effective farming strategies since those places will be saturated.

It's not a solution, but it's a start to a solution.

Mayrael · December 2017

Ok so Ill tell you how this will look like. You have farm group that takes over first 10 places of leaderboard, all they need to do is to farm more as sooner or later other will do the stuff they need to became emp, king etc. etc. Even more, everyone who's not in top of the list will not care about the other objectives as he will see that the ones that will get the titles are still farmers.

DivineFirstYOLO · December 2017

Mayrael wrote: »

Its still based on leaderboards, and those are based on APs. Till title gains are bound to APs, every single title will be handed over to farmers. To became an emp you should be the one that had the biggest influence on alliance scoring and in general domination, the one that tries to be everywhere to help his alliance, not the one who runs from farm to lumber and back or runs in circles on the walls of a keep.

On the one hand this is true but on the other hand think about how those people running in circles on the walls of a keep draw the enemy attention. Take Sotha Sil where not everybody is in a PvP guild, where most people follow the zerg - they will all come if they see a keep under attack ... meanwhile the rest of YOUR alliance has the opportunity to take back keeps without resistance... so if that doesn't contribute to playing for the campaign I don't know what does.

I like the idea of the OP - would probably make more people feel useful again.

eso_nya · December 2017

Afaik with ppl who care for leaderboards and rankings, there is only one intresting postion: Rank #1.
Rank #2 might be remembered as "the looser who got beaten by rank #1".
Rank #3: well, noone cares or remembers.

Seriously w/o asking google: Who was #7 in TI 17, or #10 in last years?

I do not have an emp title on any of my chars (i do have lady and am still evaluating if countess is worth it

), if i was into it, i wouldnt be happy with a "pity title" for not winning tho.

I see your point of giving non-emp groups tools to beat an emp grp, tho i would say, in your system, the emp grp will prolly also have the other positions, so effectivly gets even stronger than now.

visionality · December 2017

@IEatCivics
You seem to think that leaderboards in alliance war are somehow shifting - one alliance leading one day, one taking over the next. This is far from reality. Talking for the EU servers, AD morningcappers (turning everything on the map yellow between 4:30 and 8:00) always make sure that no other alliance in Vivec can catch up, and in Sotha Sil EP zergs down every single player from another alliance throughout the day. With your changes, the leading alliance would be utterly buffed getting a king, prince, duke etc. FOR FREE and all the time. They would have to be exceptionally bad players not to hold emperor most of the time as well.

IEatCivics · December 2017

visionality wrote: »

@IEatCivics
You seem to think that leaderboards in alliance war are somehow shifting - one alliance leading one day, one taking over the next. This is far from reality. Talking for the EU servers, AD morningcappers (turning everything on the map yellow between 4:30 and 8:00) always make sure that no other alliance in Vivec can catch up, and in Sotha Sil EP zergs down every single player from another alliance throughout the day. With your changes, the leading alliance would be utterly buffed getting a king, prince, duke etc. FOR FREE and all the time. They would have to be exceptionally bad players not to hold emperor most of the time as well.

Yes, I mentioned in the post that we dont have a good enough reason to go do these objectives, but if you get an "Emp Status" out of these objectives they would flip like keeps. The system is an attempt at changing how Cyrodiil works.

That's the one problem I see with this system too. One faction could have all roles as I had mentioned. That's where some type of balancing would have to happen such as 12 hour cycles and all that.

Cyrodiil is just not a great framework to work with to be honest.

What are some solutions you can see for the frame we have?

IEatCivics · December 2017

eso_nya wrote: »

Afaik with ppl who care for leaderboards and rankings, there is only one intresting postion: Rank #1.
Rank #2 might be remembered as "the looser who got beaten by rank #1".
Rank #3: well, noone cares or remembers.

Seriously w/o asking google: Who was #7 in TI 17, or #10 in last years?

I do not have an emp title on any of my chars (i do have lady and am still evaluating if countess is worth it ), if i was into it, i wouldnt be happy with a "pity title" for not winning tho.

I see your point of giving non-emp groups tools to beat an emp grp, tho i would say, in your system, the emp grp will prolly also have the other positions, so effectivly gets even stronger than now.

Yea, I was thinking about Vivec XBox NA and the AD had EMP 80% of the time, but were last place on points until the last 5 days they made it into 2nd. This was just one cycle of a 30 day and have to see if this holds true. Currently, it's working out that way in the fresh 30 day that started recently.

Farm groups never go for scrolls though since that's really bad AP/persecond so figured that could be an idea because to gain that title you're going to kill your AP farm.

The titles in themselves are supposed to break your AP farm, like going into IC to get and defend those flags.

Turelus · December 2017

I don't think more titles and special ranks are the fix (nor are they lore fitting).

As others have said the system needs to move away from a system based on AP and more towards something which rewards participation with the alliance as a whole. The issue is whatever the system everyone will want it, people will farm/cheese the system to get it.

A points score system based on how many objectives you were around could work, but this would just encourage "PvDoor" and resource grabbing to gain.
We can't have an elected system because it would be abused as well as not being lore fitting.

K/D ratio is unfair on healers and support classes.

Honestly the current system isn't great but it's the best we have right now it seems.

Waffennacht · December 2017

So many emps get targeted for #$&+ talk, half the time I feel bad for whomever got the title last

IEatCivics · December 2017

Turelus wrote: »

I don't think more titles and special ranks are the fix (nor are they lore fitting).

As others have said the system needs to move away from a system based on AP and more towards something which rewards participation with the alliance as a whole. The issue is whatever the system everyone will want it, people will farm/cheese the system to get it.

A points score system based on how many objectives you were around could work, but this would just encourage "PvDoor" and resource grabbing to gain.
We can't have an elected system because it would be abused as well as not being lore fitting.

K/D ratio is unfair on healers and support classes.

Honestly the current system isn't great but it's the best we have right now it seems.

I'm just sticking with the Scrolls idea.

What if the person who gets the Duke/Duchess title is the person who actually carried the most scrolls and placed them. And if 6 people put down 1 scroll each, it would "Crown" 1 of the six at random which each of them having 1/6th of a chance being crowned.

To make it more effective, it would "Crown" only those who had placed the scrolls and are online. So if only 2 scroll runners/placers are online of the 6, the two online would have a 50% chance of being "Crowned." This takes it completely away from AP and is fully weighted on your participation of scroll running.

I wonder how this would work if we just had Emp from the keeps as we do now and that kind of system for the scrolls rewarding those not AP farming and then people who don't have 24/7 to be on can also be rewarded for their PvP efforts that actually help everyone.

SugaComa · December 2017

Simple solution ... Once crowned emp you gain AP to spend but no more AP for the leader board

Your characters automatically enrolled for the gold tier reward so even if it drops out if the top ten the emp title allows that reward to be claimed

This allows others to move up and naturally ... However former Emps will gain a new title should their faction crown a new emp

General to the Emp

If in a group with the emp they Syphon off some of the Emps power

So now you have to decide do you want an ultra powerful emp or

A super powerful emp and superpower full general

Groups can only have 4 general plus emp and the more they are the weaker the emp gets but the stronger the generals get

Could make a much more interesting team dynamic

To prevent it becoming op other factions former Emps will get the general slayer buff allowing them to do more damage to generals.

BohnT · December 2017

visionality wrote: »

@IEatCivics
You seem to think that leaderboards in alliance war are somehow shifting - one alliance leading one day, one taking over the next. This is far from reality. Talking for the EU servers, AD morningcappers (turning everything on the map yellow between 4:30 and 8:00) always make sure that no other alliance in Vivec can catch up, and in Sotha Sil EP zergs down every single player from another alliance throughout the day. With your changes, the leading alliance would be utterly buffed getting a king, prince, duke etc. FOR FREE and all the time. They would have to be exceptionally bad players not to hold emperor most of the time as well.

And on shor a 30 man group with Emp from DC zergs anything down

IEatCivics · December 2017

BohnT wrote: »

visionality wrote: »

@IEatCivics
You seem to think that leaderboards in alliance war are somehow shifting - one alliance leading one day, one taking over the next. This is far from reality. Talking for the EU servers, AD morningcappers (turning everything on the map yellow between 4:30 and 8:00) always make sure that no other alliance in Vivec can catch up, and in Sotha Sil EP zergs down every single player from another alliance throughout the day. With your changes, the leading alliance would be utterly buffed getting a king, prince, duke etc. FOR FREE and all the time. They would have to be exceptionally bad players not to hold emperor most of the time as well.

And on shor a 30 man group with Emp from DC zergs anything down

Does this game (Cyrodiil) just create hopeless feelings for everyone? I've read through the posts over the years here and in my life time of playing MMOs and that's what I mostly hear. Everyone feels defeated without the ability to see or try solutions. The universal feeling of hopelessness is more than I'd imagine it should be be on video games.

Maybe there's another problem to solve before we go after this one.

gepe87 · December 2017

Nice ideas but too many titles.

DeadlyRecluse · December 2017

What I'm seeing is: give the dominant faction 6 overpowered players instead of one.

Not feeling it.