Tanking n G-Dungeons with Clannfear: viable or not?

Tai-Chi · December 2017

I am keeping this relatively simple to start with but there might be more questions to ask - depending on your answers.

Q1. Is it viable to play the role of Tank (in NORMAL Group Dungeons) using the Clannfear to taunt?
Q2. Would one need to use other Taunts as well? If yes, which ones would be the best?

I would very much appreciate your insight, help and advice because I am too embarrassed to use the Dungeon finder in order to test if for myself.

Tasear · December 2017

At 1 point it was possible but not anymore and trust me...I was disappointed too.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · December 2017

Clanfear does not apply a taunt. Only the tormenter set, ice staffs, inner fire and puncture apply a taunt.

AcadianPaladin · December 2017

Q1: No. Bosses are fickle about clannfears. If it is just you, boss and your clannfear, the clannfear often holds full aggro. But the moment another player shows up, the boss tends to ignore the clannfear and go for players. Plus, the clannfear needs to be slotted on both bars – just not worth the cost for tank.

Q2: For taunts, you want Pierce Armor (One hand and shield skill) and Inner Fire (Undaunted skil). The former uses stam and is short range, the latter uses mag and is ranged. With the destruction staff passives, a heavy attack from a frost staff will taunt as well but is slow, requires a frost staff and is therefore probably inferior to Inner Fire despite its ‘free’ cost.

starkerealm · December 2017

The problem with the Clanfear is, you can't control its taunt, at all. In some cases, you can't even control what it aggros on. It doesn't mean you can't use a clanfear in dungeons, but, it's not going to excel there.

You need an actual, controlled, taunt. This effectively means you can choose between Puncture and Inner Fire, except you can't. Of the two Pierce Armor (a morph of Puncture) is vastly more useful. You may also want to slot inner fire on your back bar, but it's not necessary, and won't create the core of a good Sorc Tank.

Beyond that there are a few other options you can use to inflict taunts. For example, Heavy Attacks with a Frost Staff or the Tormentor Set. Thing is, these are conditional at best, and won't reliably keep the boss off of the DPS or (worse) the healer.

You can use a clanfear. It can make a decent distraction in some dungeons. That said, there are some dungeons, and nearly all trials, I'd recommend against using it. In particular HRC and MoL can screw you over hard, if you allow combat pets to wander around.

As a general rule, you do not want to rely on taunts that occur via a proc, or have a long cast time (like the frost staffs), simply because you need to be able to poke a boss and get their attention immediately. You do not want the boss turning around, mid combat, to direct its AOEs onto your clanfear, AND the DPS who were standing behind the boss.

starkerealm · December 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Clanfear does not apply a taunt.

It does. The clanfear has a taunt attack. The problem is you have no control over it, and no real feedback to know when it's active. So, the clanfear taunts when it feels like, and dosen't bother to let you know.

That said, the clanfear will no longer taunt trial bosses. This used to be the case until Morrowind or Horns of The Reach.

starkerealm · December 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Clanfear does not apply a taunt. Only the tormenter set, ice staffs, inner fire and puncture apply a taunt.

This is the most accurate response. Regardless of belief pets don’t taunt in a group

From June 1st.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, apologies for the delay. We got some answers tracked down for you and this is, actually, intended behavior. There were some changes for pets that went in back on the PTS, and unfortunately the patch notes for the changes were missed. Here are the things we changed and what is currently live:
Removed passive healing from summoned pets.

Increased a pet's damage reduction to radius attacks to 85% from 75%. This bonus applies to all attacks in Trials.

Clannfear pets no longer taunt enemies in Trials.

starkerealm · December 2017

Tai-Chi wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Q1: No.
Q2: Yes, Pierce Armor.

Thanks for replying @starkerealm .

Do you mean - no Clannfear whatsoever or yes, you can use the Clannfear to 'Taunt' but one would need to use Pierce Armour to taunt as well as the Clannfear?

I have all S&B actives and Passives and the Pierce Armour morph
I also have all the Undaunted actives and passives - therefore both of their taunts.

You can use the Clannfear if you really want to. But I wouldn't recommend it. It can result in unpredictable aggro bouncing. (Granted, this is rare, but it is a risk.)

For the most part, I'd just say, forget about the Clannfear as a taunt. That's more of a flaw with it rather than a benefit.

Pierce Armor is your best bet overall. There's no reason not to slot it with your sword and board. Inner Fire can be useful, and has its moments, so it's not completely unreasonable to have that slotted somewhere. However, I wouldn't use it as my primary taunt.

Tasear · December 2017

It does work and you are solo player. The pet can be controlled and apply and reapply aggro to enemies but doesn't work in groups in dungeons or overland content such as world bosses.

starkerealm · December 2017

Actually, from what you've got, keep Necropotence, swap in Elegance. Focus on DPS, not on tanking. If the only reason you're thinking that you need to be a tank because your character is a Nord, that's not true.

phileunderx2 · December 2017

The clanifer will taunt whatever you heavy attack. Didn't used to be that way. And it does have a habit of wandering off lol

DocFrost72 · December 2017

Sorc tanks use clanfear, they just do not use them to taunt. A 35% (of your) health heal that can crit is really useful, and while it's alive it grants you 8% health. Clanfear has never once stolen aggro from me, nor has it made a boss taunt immune.

Iselin · December 2017

Stinkyremy wrote: »

As a tank main I can tell you that any pet is absolute troublesome in dungeons. A tanks role is not also to hold agro but to organize and position the group for debuffs and aoe dps. The pets completely negates this, they bring agro out randomly seperating the tanks hard work or grouping the mob and can even take the boss away form the tank.
I understand their usefulness to the dps who uses them but for the group they are a problem.

That sounds more like prejudice than actual fact. I've run hundreds of ESO dungeons - all of them in normal and vet as healer, as tank and as DPS. The real problems I have seen that waste ground targeted effects are tanks that are oblivious to them and either drag or kite away from them and the loner ranged guy who stands well away from the rest of the group (presumably for a false sense of security) while missing out on all the ground targeted or cone heals who will occasionally have the boss go to him if the boss has those types of taunt-ignoring mechanics.

All pets with the exception of the Twilight stay glued to the boss right next to the tank and attack whatever its owner is attacking... which should be the boss. The Twilight can occasionally act like that loner guy and draw jumpy bosses away but it happens so infrequently that it's barely worth mentioning as a group issue, much less generalize it into all pets being a problem.

starkerealm · December 2017

Q1: No.
Q2: Yes, Pierce Armor.

laksikus · December 2017

Lets say it this way.
Tanking is not viable in normal dungeons at all.
If you really wanna tank, just use your normal pet sorc build and slot taunt, and throw it at bosses when someone in group group complains about you not tanking^^

NewBlacksmurf · December 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Clanfear does not apply a taunt. Only the tormenter set, ice staffs, inner fire and puncture apply a taunt.

This is the most accurate response. Regardless of belief pets don’t taunt in a group

Tai-Chi · December 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Q1: No.
Q2: Yes, Pierce Armor.

Thanks for replying @starkerealm .

Do you mean - no Clannfear whatsoever or yes, you can use the Clannfear to 'Taunt' but one would need to use Pierce Armour to taunt as well as the Clannfear?

I have all S&B actives and Passives and the Pierce Armour morph
I also have all the Undaunted actives and passives - therefore both of their taunts.

starkerealm · December 2017

Tasear wrote: »

It does work and you are solo player. The pet can be controlled and apply and reapply aggro to enemies but doesn't work in groups in dungeons or overland content such as world bosses.

It might simply respect the crowd control flag. I've never really tested simply because the clannfear has a mind of its own, and you can never be sure what it will do.

Iselin · December 2017

I have a tankish level 24 (but also CP 690) Stamsorc with DW and 1HD+S all in medium armor but some of it is 5-pieces crafted Alessia's who uses the clanfear but nor for aggro just for magicka dump heals.

He's just an experiment in tanking that has actually turned out rather well at least in the first 9 normal dungeons: extremely hardy and puts out a ton of AOE DPS with Hurricane, whirling blades and deadly cloak.

The clanfear these days is just something to use for heals until you unlock Surge and get Vigor.

Once I do that the pet is going into retirement and critical surge + Shattering Prison will be my magicka dumps.

GreenhaloX · December 2017

laksikus wrote: »

Lets say it this way.
Tanking is not viable in normal dungeons at all.
If you really wanna tank, just use your normal pet sorc build and slot taunt, and throw it at bosses when someone in group group complains about you not tanking^^

Well, not everyone is or every group will have super duper high CP dd/dpsers or a lonewolf that would otherwise solo the dungeon. Ha ha. Particularly since Morrowind, there have been an influx of new/first time ESO gamers and still more new bloods coming abroad. Sure, there are still plenty of players who create new toons, and, even though their levels are showing non-CP, they are actually higher CP or maxed CP toons/players. However, you can tell who is purely new players or seasoned/veteran toons/players. So, a tank is still viable when you queue into a group that has those lower/newer players. Heck, even players/toons in the 100 and 200 CP dd/dpsers still have a bit of a challenge with those normal DLC ones like CoS, WGT or ICP. Well, you don't really need the super duper fluff and buff tanky tank that you would use for vet trials, but a hybrid tank will work quite well with any normal/DLC dungeons with lower level players.

Otherwise, sure, for normal dungeons, you can also have a higher CP player/toon throw on Inner Rage or the Clannfear would work, if you don't have a tank. One of the problem I see, however, is a certain higher CP dd/dps toon/player (perhaps queue in as tank to get in faster,) then just bust forward ahead and away from the group, and at times, busting through adds/mobs while the others in the group are then stuck to fight off those adds/mobs and/or running trying to catch up to that higher CP player. It would be a bit frustrating for new players that would still need to do the quest, and definitely, teamwork of any sense is thrown out the door.

Tai-Chi · December 2017

Thanks everyone for replying. There is a lot of useful info from everyone. You are all Awesome.

I am basically a Solo player but I would like to participate in the Dungeon Event. In particular, I would like to complete the Event on my 9-trait Master Crafter.

She was the first good-looking Char I made but unfortunately the choice of Race and Class would never be BIS. Hence she was relegated to the role of Crafting. Nevertheless, she is good for the role she plays and can Solo just about everything, apart from Group Dungeons and some World Bosses.

I do not want to go to the expense of crafting all new armour and skill respecs just for the event, so what would be my best choices for a Tank? ie on NORMAL.

Race: Nord
Attributes: 64 Magica
Armour: 5H, 1L, 1M (5 TBS, 5 Necro, 1 Kena all Gold)

She can borrow Elegance Gold Jewels and Light armour to replace Necro, if need be.
She has an assortment of Monster Shoulders in the Bank and one Slimecraw Helm.

starkerealm · December 2017

Honestly, I'd lean more towards Torug's Pact 5pc, with 5pc Trainee (jewelry + Armor), and then possibly working towards unique weapons down the line.

I wouldn't gold out anything until you're really comfortable, and there's some pretty credible arguments to using Fortified Brass 5pc as a starting tank build.

Tai-Chi · December 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Actually, from what you've got, keep Necropotence, swap in Elegance. Focus on DPS, not on tanking. If the only reason you're thinking that you need to be a tank because your character is a Nord, that's not true.

This appears to be a good solution. I shall try it out for size to see what it does to her dps. Currently, it fluctuates between 10K and 15K. Her single target is never below 25K but on average lies between 32K and 45K, with a few strikes hitting up into the 50K and 60K brackets.

For questing Solo, that is not a problem. Clannfear pins down the Boss, whilst my Char deals with the mobs. It just takes a little longer to take the suckers down!

Thanks

raj72616a · December 2017

clannfear pet does not that. that's just superstition left from very early version of the game.

if you can't be bothered to slot a taunt, just use a frost stafc

Tai-Chi · December 2017

raj72616a wrote: »

clannfear pet does not that. that's just superstition left from very early version of the game.

if you can't be bothered to slot a taunt, just use a frost stafc

I do actually know what the Clannfear can and cannot do because he has been the faithful companion to my Main Crafter for nigh on 3 years. In all that time he has served her very well.

I have done a few Group Dungeons on normal and vet and 2 trials, so I am fully aware that the Clannfear can pull agro from the Boss and unwanted mobs. That is why I will not play as dd with Clannfear on board. The 2 or 3 times I have soloed normal Group Dungeons, it is not a problem because there are no other players around that need to be given due consideration.

When I play solo, I can (if I wish) set up my Front Bar as a long-range dd bar - with Destro Staff - and the Back Bar with S&B, using Pierce Armour (or an Undaunted taunt) Absorb Magic, Power Bash or whatever best suits the particular situation and still have room for a powerful dot and Magicka Ulti. So, it is not a case of "I cannot be bothered to slot a taunt".

In a solo situation, if I taunt a Boss and throw in some Heavy Attacks, Clannfear will stick to the Boss like glue and cause a lot of damage. What I do not know - because I have not had an opportunity to test it - is whether Clannfear will behave in the same manner as when I play solo, when I play in a 4 person group (where I am the ONLY tank). In this scenario, Clannfear is not interfering with another player's tanking because I am the Tank.

I have probably explained myself very badly but I hope you understand what I am getting at.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

vovus69 · December 2017

get warden and bear. Use heavy attack. After that bear will tank the mob you attacked with HA. This is much better than clanfear.

-vovus

WrathOfInnos · December 2017

Tai-Chi wrote: »

Thanks everyone for replying. There is a lot of useful info from everyone. You are all Awesome.

I am basically a Solo player but I would like to participate in the Dungeon Event. In particular, I would like to complete the Event on my 9-trait Master Crafter.

She was the first good-looking Char I made but unfortunately the choice of Race and Class would never be BIS. Hence she was relegated to the role of Crafting. Nevertheless, she is good for the role she plays and can Solo just about everything, apart from Group Dungeons and some World Bosses.

I do not want to go to the expense of crafting all new armour and skill respecs just for the event, so what would be my best choices for a Tank? ie on NORMAL.

Race: Nord
Attributes: 64 Magica
Armour: 5H, 1L, 1M (5 TBS, 5 Necro, 1 Kena all Gold)

She can borrow Elegance Gold Jewels and Light armour to replace Necro, if need be.
She has an assortment of Monster Shoulders in the Bank and one Slimecraw Helm.

Don't bother with elegance, it is only useful for overload builds (not great since the nerf). If you want to boost light and heavy attacks use a set that boosts spell damage. Netch's Touch, for example, will increase lightning heavy attack damage by 15-20% and all other lightning skills by 6-7%. If you use multiple elemental damage types, Julianos is a better option, with about 11-15% increase in light/heavies and 5% to other skills.

Tai-Chi · December 2017

vovus69 wrote: »

get warden and bear. Use heavy attack. After that bear will tank the mob you attacked with HA. This is much better than clanfear.

-vovus

I have got a Warden. She - with or without her Bear - was not the problem. It was my magicka Nord, with whom I am well pleased with, under normal circumstances but she is not optimised for any particular role in Group Dungeons. I just wanted some advice for a 'quick fix' in order to enable my Nord to participate in the Special Event.

I could have just queued up for a Normal, 4 man Group Dungeon (as a Tank) and treated it as an experiment. My view is that such an action would not have been fair on the other 3 players - who no doubt queued for a long time.

Thanks for taking the trouble to respond anyway.

raj72616a · December 2017

Tai-Chi wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

clannfear pet does not that. that's just superstition left from very early version of the game.

if you can't be bothered to slot a taunt, just use a frost stafc

I do actually know what the Clannfear can and cannot do because he has been the faithful companion to my Main Crafter for nigh on 3 years. In all that time he has served her very well.

I have done a few Group Dungeons on normal and vet and 2 trials, so I am fully aware that the Clannfear can pull agro from the Boss and unwanted mobs. That is why I will not play as dd with Clannfear on board. The 2 or 3 times I have soloed normal Group Dungeons, it is not a problem because there are no other players around that need to be given due consideration.

When I play solo, I can (if I wish) set up my Front Bar as a long-range dd bar - with Destro Staff - and the Back Bar with S&B, using Pierce Armour (or an Undaunted taunt) Absorb Magic, Power Bash or whatever best suits the particular situation and still have room for a powerful dot and Magicka Ulti. So, it is not a case of "I cannot be bothered to slot a taunt".

In a solo situation, if I taunt a Boss and throw in some Heavy Attacks, Clannfear will stick to the Boss like glue and cause a lot of damage. What I do not know - because I have not had an opportunity to test it - is whether Clannfear will behave in the same manner as when I play solo, when I play in a 4 person group (where I am the ONLY tank). In this scenario, Clannfear is not interfering with another player's tanking because I am the Tank.

I have probably explained myself very badly but I hope you understand what I am getting at.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

i think you are using taunt and aggro interchangeably
but no they are not the same thing

taunt is a specific debuff that cause the target to direct most of its attack towards the taunter (except AoE attack and some special mechanics) for 15 seconds. visually it's shown as a red fiery cloud over the head of the target.

aggro is just getting the attention of idle mobs to come towards your group.
it was said that, when you solo with a clannfear, when you and your lizard friend are the only possible targets on the aggro table of the mobs, the clannfear will be your scapegoat, so it feels like the clannfear is taunting and tanking the mobs.
but in group the aggro table will be a lot more complicated (queuing as a tank does nothing for the aggro table). the pets cannot be relied on as tank.

aggro/threat is a mystery in ESO, no player knows how it really works. tank can only rely on using taunt, and cannot rely on generating aggro/threat (we still yse caltrops and possibly other AoE attack to grab aggro, but the thing we rely on is still taunt skills)

of course, a lot of bosses have mechanics that ignore the taunt and randomly attack other players anyway, in these fights you might not realize the difference between taunt and aggro

Stinkyremy · December 2017

As a tank main I can tell you that any pet is absolute troublesome in dungeons. A tanks role is not also to hold agro but to organize and position the group for debuffs and aoe dps. The pets completely negates this, they bring agro out randomly seperating the tanks hard work or grouping the mob and can even take the boss away form the tank.
I understand their usefulness to the dps who uses them but for the group they are a problem.

Zordrage · December 2017

G-Dungeon

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Tanking n G-Dungeons with Clannfear: viable or not?

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