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Changes I would like to see happen to werewolfs in the future
Qbiken
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Disclaimer: This thread is made with PvP in mind.
Before people say that WW's are fine and this is a "L2P-issue": I don't necessarily think WW's are weak, but there's a reason people use other setups/playstyles instead of WW's.....
My thoughts and suggestions
Skills
- Werewolf ultimate: Only change I would like to see here is that heavy attacks in WW-form applies a separate bleed than the light attack bleed. Otherwise, if a HA applies the same bleed as the ligth attack bleed, that would be cool as well.
- Pounce: Think the skill with morphs are fine as they're, no change needed.
- WW heal: Now here's where the real changes happens. The heal has one of the best scaling ratio in the game, unfortunately the only way to get good usage of either morph is to use Pelinial's set. Also, most people pick Hircine's Rage due to the extra weapondamage. I would like to see a change to the other morph. Instead of giving a heal over time effect, Hircine's Fortitude now works as a purge skill, removing X amount of negative effects on you. That way, one morph will give you burst heal and more damage, while the other morph gives you burst heal and tankiness.
- WW Fear: No specific changes needed in my opinion.
- Howl: Not sure why this skill is considered an projectile, perhaps change it so it's not considered an projectile so it can't be reflected.
- Claws: Increase the heal from the healing morph, otherwise fine skill.
Passives
I won't go through each passive, but suggest what I would like to see added instead.
- Reduce the effectiveness of snares by X%: To compensate, make abilities from Fighters Guild that have a snare applied to them become more effective against WW's
- Increase stealth detection range while in WW form: You're a WW, and WW's have great sense of smell, trying to sneak or be invisible close to a WW should be difficult
- Bring back "permawolf" when in a group with 4-5 WW's: ZOS "nerfed" this a while back and due to this many people stopped playing WW. People claim it's stikl easy to stay in WW form for long, but when running between keeps you'll most of the times get pulled out of WW form. Revert this change would encourage to group-play, which mmo's is all about.
- Increase the stamina return from heavy attacks in WW form even further. The amount you get back is ridiculously low, and since the heavy attack animation is so you'll rarely hit a moving player, and if you don't hit them, you won't get any stamina back. In this suggestion I would also like to see a reduction of the time it takes to perform a heavy attack as a WW.
- More HP regen the less HP you get: I got the inspiration from playing Witcher 3, where WW's get more hp-regen when their health gets lower and lower. Would be cool to have such a feature in ESO as well.
General suggesion
-Reduce the cost of WW abilites. Their abilites cost 3,8-3,9k stamina each (and people think magdk skills cost a lot). Unless you're using Hulking Draugr, you'll have around 35-39k stamina in WW form. A standard combo of pounce + Fear +claw+roar, wilk drain more than half your staminapool. I can't come up with any other initiation combo on any other setup that would drain 2/3 of your main statpool (maybe on a magDK, but that class need costreduction passive added as well). A reduction of ability cost by 10-15% is therefore suitable in my opinion.
To compensate for these changes I would like to see an increased effectiveness of Fighters Guild abilities against WW's (will obviously apply to vampires as well in that case).
Last words: Once again, before people say that I'm crazy and these changes are too OP, ask yourself how many WW's you see around in PvP these days. There aren't a lot I can tell you that much. At the moment WW's are free AP more or less, and are in need of some love. This isn't a L2P-issue from my side, I know how to play my WW, and I'll happily upload some gameplay footage to prove my point once I get my recording program to co-operate with me......
Before people say that WW's are fine and this is a "L2P-issue": I don't necessarily think WW's are weak, but there's a reason people use other setups/playstyles instead of WW's.....
My thoughts and suggestions
Skills
- Werewolf ultimate: Only change I would like to see here is that heavy attacks in WW-form applies a separate bleed than the light attack bleed. Otherwise, if a HA applies the same bleed as the ligth attack bleed, that would be cool as well.
- Pounce: Think the skill with morphs are fine as they're, no change needed.
- WW heal: Now here's where the real changes happens. The heal has one of the best scaling ratio in the game, unfortunately the only way to get good usage of either morph is to use Pelinial's set. Also, most people pick Hircine's Rage due to the extra weapondamage. I would like to see a change to the other morph. Instead of giving a heal over time effect, Hircine's Fortitude now works as a purge skill, removing X amount of negative effects on you. That way, one morph will give you burst heal and more damage, while the other morph gives you burst heal and tankiness.
- WW Fear: No specific changes needed in my opinion.
- Howl: Not sure why this skill is considered an projectile, perhaps change it so it's not considered an projectile so it can't be reflected.
- Claws: Increase the heal from the healing morph, otherwise fine skill.
Passives
I won't go through each passive, but suggest what I would like to see added instead.
- Reduce the effectiveness of snares by X%: To compensate, make abilities from Fighters Guild that have a snare applied to them become more effective against WW's
- Increase stealth detection range while in WW form: You're a WW, and WW's have great sense of smell, trying to sneak or be invisible close to a WW should be difficult
- Bring back "permawolf" when in a group with 4-5 WW's: ZOS "nerfed" this a while back and due to this many people stopped playing WW. People claim it's stikl easy to stay in WW form for long, but when running between keeps you'll most of the times get pulled out of WW form. Revert this change would encourage to group-play, which mmo's is all about.
- Increase the stamina return from heavy attacks in WW form even further. The amount you get back is ridiculously low, and since the heavy attack animation is so you'll rarely hit a moving player, and if you don't hit them, you won't get any stamina back. In this suggestion I would also like to see a reduction of the time it takes to perform a heavy attack as a WW.
- More HP regen the less HP you get: I got the inspiration from playing Witcher 3, where WW's get more hp-regen when their health gets lower and lower. Would be cool to have such a feature in ESO as well.
General suggesion
-Reduce the cost of WW abilites. Their abilites cost 3,8-3,9k stamina each (and people think magdk skills cost a lot). Unless you're using Hulking Draugr, you'll have around 35-39k stamina in WW form. A standard combo of pounce + Fear +claw+roar, wilk drain more than half your staminapool. I can't come up with any other initiation combo on any other setup that would drain 2/3 of your main statpool (maybe on a magDK, but that class need costreduction passive added as well). A reduction of ability cost by 10-15% is therefore suitable in my opinion.
To compensate for these changes I would like to see an increased effectiveness of Fighters Guild abilities against WW's (will obviously apply to vampires as well in that case).
Last words: Once again, before people say that I'm crazy and these changes are too OP, ask yourself how many WW's you see around in PvP these days. There aren't a lot I can tell you that much. At the moment WW's are free AP more or less, and are in need of some love. This isn't a L2P-issue from my side, I know how to play my WW, and I'll happily upload some gameplay footage to prove my point once I get my recording program to co-operate with me......
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Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Disclaimer: This thread is made with PvP in mind.
Before people say that WW's are fine and this is a "L2P-issue": I don't necessarily think WW's are weak, but there's a reason people use other setups/playstyles instead of WW's.....
My thoughts and suggestions
Skills
- Werewolf ultimate: Only change I would like to see here is that heavy attacks in WW-form applies a separate bleed than the light attack bleed. Otherwise, if a HA applies the same bleed as the ligth attack bleed, that would be cool as well.
- Pounce: Think the skill with morphs are fine as they're, no change needed.
- WW heal: Now here's where the real changes happens. The heal has one of the best scaling ratio in the game, unfortunately the only way to get good usage of either morph is to use Pelinial's set. Also, most people pick Hircine's Rage due to the extra weapondamage. I would like to see a change to the other morph. Instead of giving a heal over time effect, Hircine's Fortitude now works as a purge skill, removing X amount of negative effects on you. That way, one morph will give you burst heal and more damage, while the other morph gives you burst heal and tankiness.
- WW Fear: No specific changes needed in my opinion.
- Howl: Not sure why this skill is considered an projectile, perhaps change it so it's not considered an projectile so it can't be reflected.
- Claws: Increase the heal from the healing morph, otherwise fine skill.
Passives
I won't go through each passive, but suggest what I would like to see added instead.
- Reduce the effectiveness of snares by X%: To compensate, make abilities from Fighters Guild that have a snare applied to them become more effective against WW's
- Increase stealth detection range while in WW form: You're a WW, and WW's have great sense of smell, trying to sneak or be invisible close to a WW should be difficult
- Bring back "permawolf" when in a group with 4-5 WW's: ZOS "nerfed" this a while back and due to this many people stopped playing WW. People claim it's stikl easy to stay in WW form for long, but when running between keeps you'll most of the times get pulled out of WW form. Revert this change would encourage to group-play, which mmo's is all about.
- Increase the stamina return from heavy attacks in WW form even further. The amount you get back is ridiculously low, and since the heavy attack animation is so you'll rarely hit a moving player, and if you don't hit them, you won't get any stamina back. In this suggestion I would also like to see a reduction of the time it takes to perform a heavy attack as a WW.
- More HP regen the less HP you get: I got the inspiration from playing Witcher 3, where WW's get more hp-regen when their health gets lower and lower. Would be cool to have such a feature in ESO as well.
General suggesion
-Reduce the cost of WW abilites. Their abilites cost 3,8-3,9k stamina each (and people think magdk skills cost a lot). Unless you're using Hulking Draugr, you'll have around 35-39k stamina in WW form. A standard combo of pounce + Fear +claw+roar, wilk drain more than half your staminapool. I can't come up with any other initiation combo on any other setup that would drain 2/3 of your main statpool (maybe on a magDK, but that class need costreduction passive added as well). A reduction of ability cost by 10-15% is therefore suitable in my opinion.
To compensate for these changes I would like to see an increased effectiveness of Fighters Guild abilities against WW's (will obviously apply to vampires as well in that case).
Last words: Once again, before people say that I'm crazy and these changes are too OP, ask yourself how many WW's you see around in PvP these days. There aren't a lot I can tell you that much. At the moment WW's are free AP more or less, and are in need of some love. This isn't a L2P-issue from my side, I know how to play my WW, and I'll happily upload some gameplay footage to prove my point once I get my recording program to co-operate with me......
Lots of things here could definitely help the werewolf's cause. I think one thing that really needs looked at is the synergies both literally and figuratively that are added to group play.
I think this reason is the primary reason we don't see werewolves more commonly in PVP or end game trials.
From a solo perspective the werewolf is strong against against other solo targets. But take a group of 6 players and put them in werewolf form, and you will see a decline in how the group performs.
Every single wolf even in its pack, is its own entity. Forget a purge when you are under siege, forget incoming heals, forget a resurrection if you do go down, forget resource return synergies, forget placing your own siege.
All werewolf has to offer for protection is it's thick hide, and roll dodging. Which is nice in PVE where nothing can remove or pen or ignore your resistance. I think to counter this we should remove the armor/Spell resistance bonus from werewolf and give them flat out Major protection. But to keep and encourage counterplay to them increase poison damage to it's current value.
Short version of request with a little more.
-Werewolf Gains Major Protection, no longer increases armor and spell resistance.
-Werewolf takes 40% increased damage from poison damage, perhaps increase FG damage as well in their passive.
-Roll dodge removes & provides a 4 second snare Immunity
-Increase speed of heavy attack animation by 20%, change animation, no more werewolf hug. Maybe a Bite Animation?
-Allow werewolf to generate ultimate while in form.
-Change Devour Mechanic to give werewolf time/health per second channelled. 10sec/sec. Stopping devour or being interrupted consumes the body.
-Hircine's fortitude increases Health Regen of nearby allies 2k for 10 seconds (does not stack), and heals them for 10% of casters total stamina every second for 3 seconds.
-Ferocious Roar changed to Roar of the Perpetual hunt. No longer fears targets but grants major expedition to caster for 10s and extends all nearby friendly werewolf transformations by 10 seconds.
What werewolves would gain:
-15% +/- tanker against most damage. Current counters do the same damage against them as current state.
-A way to shake snares for a cost.
-Slightly faster heavy attacks.
-A more fluid system for werewolf centered play.
-Devour becomes more user friendly/less irritating than the all or nothing format now available.
-A way to keep self and fellow werewolves alive without stacking spell damage, buff that helps out other allies. Though decreases overall damage output of individual wolves using this choice.
-A way to keep self and other wolves in form outside of combat at loss of major brutality and CC / off balanced.
Weaknesses:
-Fighters guild abilities/poisons
-Healing/Health regen debuffs
-Expensive abilities very susceptible to cost increase potions
-Lack of Purge/Clense
-Can't res
-Can't stealth
-Can't Restore resources through synergies
-Loss of multiple class passives
-Can't siege, susceptible to siegeCaius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My biggest issue with WW is how battle roar becomes literally useless while Im in WW form.
Sadly I don't see that changing, so WW will always be ''meh'' for me.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As I wrote in the post, one of the biggest bummer for me is the cost of all stamina abilites. They cost 3,9k stamina/each. And the one magic skill WW´s has cost over 4k. Back when cost reduction passives and pre-nerfed racial passives, that cost wasn´t such an issue. If I could pick only 1 thing from my suggestions, I would pick the reduce cost of WW abilities by 15%.0 -
jaschacasadiob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭You should consider one thing: pvp is a small niche of the population. This tells you why it had little love these months (infinite load screens anyone?).
I think your suggestions are somehow OP. The fact that there are little WW in pvp thse days (is it true?), is not a good reason. That is, the real problem of the game is that becoming a warewolf is as easy as going to the Wayrest grocery to buy bread. If WW were extremely rare I wouldn't mind them to be very powerful. Of course, payiing deeds (being hunted, ...).
TLDR;
OP considering how easy it is to be a wolf."Yesterday while searching a barrel in vVoM I found a lemon. Best drop of the whole run."
Protect the weak. Heal the sick.
Treasure the gifts of friendship. Seek joy and inspiration in the mysteries of love.
Honor the Earth, its creatures, and the spirits. Use Nature's gifts wisely. Respect her power. Fear her fury.0 -
KeiruNicrom✭✭✭✭✭WW needs some PvE love. I think changing the one passive that gives you 3 sec of WW form when taking damage be changed to taking or dealing damage would be for the best. WW is dps based abilities wise but that passive is tank/pvp based.
Dps using ww are forced into standing in red, stepping away 10' to pounce, or find a corpse and disengage for 5 seconds in order to stay in the form. This is counter productive in pve but possible in the more mobile and chaotic pvp. The high ability cost are also an issue but those are manageable with proper resource management
I like the snare, stealth detection, and perma ww return ideas. But the hp regen effect is un needed. I think its also a 5 piece effect, sounds familiar0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KeiruNicrom wrote: »WW needs some PvE love. I think changing the one passive that gives you 3 sec of WW form when taking damage be changed to taking or dealing damage would be for the best. WW is dps based abilities wise but that passive is tank/pvp based.
Dps using ww are forced into standing in red, stepping away 10' to pounce, or find a corpse and disengage for 5 seconds in order to stay in the form. This is counter productive in pve but possible in the more mobile and chaotic pvp. The high ability cost are also an issue but those are manageable with proper resource management
I like the snare, stealth detection, and perma ww return ideas. But the hp regen effect is un needed. I think its also a 5 piece effect, sounds familiar
Orgnum's ScalesEdited by Chrlynsch on December 10, 2017 10:56PMCaius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Werewolves should get CC immunity while in form - same as NPC trolls, and for the same reason (too big to CC). Only way to CC a werewolf should be through fighters' guild abilities (and they could be made more powerful to compensate).0 -
coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »You should consider one thing: pvp is a small niche of the population. This tells you why it had little love these months (infinite load screens anyone?).
I think your suggestions are somehow OP. The fact that there are little WW in pvp thse days (is it true?), is not a good reason. That is, the real problem of the game is that becoming a warewolf is as easy as going to the Wayrest grocery to buy bread. If WW were extremely rare I wouldn't mind them to be very powerful. Of course, payiing deeds (being hunted, ...).
TLDR;
OP considering how easy it is to be a wolf.
Vampires are easy too and they're good for both PVP and PVE and they're everywhere in both PVP and PVEHoping for more playable races1