Gambling creates rarity

badmojo · December 2017

Would ESO be a better game if everything was sold straight up for crowns rather than a chance to drop in crown crates?

Would ESO be a better game if crown store cosmetics were free for ESO+ members?

Both of those situations would remove rarity from the crown store cosmetics. Is rarity something people hate about the crown crates? The fact that getting everything or something specific is nearly impossible?

The fact that even throwing money at the crown crates could still not ensure you get everything you want might be the root of the problem a lot of people have with the system, complaining it is gambling just seems like a way to attack the rarity that prevents them from getting everything they want.

Should we as players of ESO expect to be able to get everything? If yes, then how much extra do we expect a player to spend for this luxury?

My opinion is... if crown crates are done away with then rarity goes out the window. Suddenly the sight of a special mount is more like seeing someone wearing a rolex, its just a statement of how wealthy they are or want others to percieve they are. Its like bringing an escort to a dinner party, no matter how good she looks, people know its just something you paid for, and they think less of you.

What I would rather see is our ESO+ cost raised slightly or even another tier of membership like ESO++ where we get everything cosmetic for free.

In a game where subscription gives you everything the game has to offer, cosmetic items become just that, people dont judge your status, people dont feel left out because they had bills to pay, we all just enjoy the game and leave our real life financial status at the door.

Other than a loot crate mechanic or price gouging, is there any fair and effective way to create rarity in ESO? If not then why bother? I will pay more per month for all the content, keep the cash shop for the non-subs and give me the real subscription based game I originally bought into.

CaffeinatedMayhem · December 2017

Why do we need rarity? Because someone feels cool to be riding the Apex mount they got in a free crate? Or because they finished a Vet Trial? Or collected every recipe in the game?

Why must only those who can throw more money at ZOS than me have the "rare" items. Conversely, why do I have to gamble to buy lower priced items?

My solution to the issue is that Crown Store "repeats" should just be in the crown store. If you want the apex mounts and can afford to gamble, fine. But Loot Crates ARE gambling, so their chances should be published, and it should be illegal to rig the output of the crates based on purchases.

VaranisArano · December 2017

Rarity or the appearance of rarity allows ZOS to charge a higher price, in the same way that limited editions are used by marketers. Its all marketing.

Nestor · December 2017

Rarity should only apply to items that are found/earned in the game. However everyone should have equal access to the effort to earn those items, content access being the only barrier (like not subbing or not buying the DLC that has the new item)

Things where the only effort you make to acquire is to open your wallet and pull out a CC should not have rarity.

Not really sure how rarity benefits the player or the game. If there are enough appearance choices offered, and things can be dyed, then everyone can look different without some arbitrary contrived rarity hidden behind an RNG Based Gambling Scheme.

Bottom line, if someone wants something that is offered up for sale, they should be able to make a Go/No Go decision based on price and desire, and then act or not act on that decision without a mechanism that creates artificial and arbitrary "rarity" in order to manipulate customers buying habits.

zyk · December 2017

ESO would be a better game if the most exclusive items were scarce because they required great effort, teamwork and/or skill to obtain.

I do not think any content should be exclusive to a cash shop in a game. I think there should be in-game acquisition paths for all items. The cash shop should be about convenience.

I've never understood how any player can be proud of an exclusive mount they paid cash for in a game. It's mind-boggling.

ESO is turning into a social commerce platform like IMVU or Second Life first and a game second.

eso_nya · December 2017

If u twist and turn it around alot, u could say its a welfare system:
Everyone who wants in pays an amount of crowns he can afford and in exchange, the merciful gods of rng bless on of their children with an apex-mount. The more participants, the more winners \o/

Darkstorne · December 2017

Rarity doesn't have to be dictated by price or gambling. I don't understand why ZOS won't provide in-game means of obtaining the rare mounts as well, to make rare achievements worth hunting for. Well... I do understand why... but it's not a great look for them.

Waffennacht · December 2017

The responses in this thread said everything I would have said. Just posting to show support to the above posters.

Apache_Kid · December 2017

badmojo wrote: »

Would ESO be a better game if everything was sold straight up for crowns rather than a chance to drop in crown crates?

Would ESO be a better game if crown store cosmetics were free for ESO+ members?

Both of those situations would remove rarity from the crown store cosmetics. Is rarity something people hate about the crown crates? The fact that getting everything or something specific is nearly impossible?

The fact that even throwing money at the crown crates could still not ensure you get everything you want might be the root of the problem a lot of people have with the system, complaining it is gambling just seems like a way to attack the rarity that prevents them from getting everything they want.

Should we as players of ESO expect to be able to get everything? If yes, then how much extra do we expect a player to spend for this luxury?

My opinion is... if crown crates are done away with then rarity goes out the window. Suddenly the sight of a special mount is more like seeing someone wearing a rolex, its just a statement of how wealthy they are or want others to percieve they are. Its like bringing an escort to a dinner party, no matter how good she looks, people know its just something you paid for, and they think less of you.

What I would rather see is our ESO+ cost raised slightly or even another tier of membership like ESO++ where we get everything cosmetic for free.

In a game where subscription gives you everything the game has to offer, cosmetic items become just that, people dont judge your status, people dont feel left out because they had bills to pay, we all just enjoy the game and leave our real life financial status at the door.

Other than a loot crate mechanic or price gouging, is there any fair and effective way to create rarity in ESO? If not then why bother? I will pay more per month for all the content, keep the cash shop for the non-subs and give me the real subscription based game I originally bought into.

I would rather someone see a possession of mine and think "dang that guy has a lot of money to be able to have afforded to spend the money that." Rather than "Dang that guy was really lucky in gambling and won that as a prize." They can make assumptions about my personal character based off of that if they want. Don't care. But maybe that's just me.... Either way I don't care too much about what others think when they see my mount, rather I care if I Think its cool or not.

badmojo · December 2017

I would argue that ingame rarity isnt real. How manu people have former emperor or flawless vma, master angler? Those are supposed to be some of the hardest titles to get.

I am not saying ingame ways to get stuff is a bad idea, I just dont think it would create actual rarity, especially if the rewards were highly desired.

RNG could possibly create actual rarity, but that creates huge grinds for cosmetics, not sure if that would be a good thing for the game.

badmojo · December 2017

Apache_Kid wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Would ESO be a better game if everything was sold straight up for crowns rather than a chance to drop in crown crates?

Would ESO be a better game if crown store cosmetics were free for ESO+ members?

Both of those situations would remove rarity from the crown store cosmetics. Is rarity something people hate about the crown crates? The fact that getting everything or something specific is nearly impossible?

The fact that even throwing money at the crown crates could still not ensure you get everything you want might be the root of the problem a lot of people have with the system, complaining it is gambling just seems like a way to attack the rarity that prevents them from getting everything they want.

Should we as players of ESO expect to be able to get everything? If yes, then how much extra do we expect a player to spend for this luxury?

My opinion is... if crown crates are done away with then rarity goes out the window. Suddenly the sight of a special mount is more like seeing someone wearing a rolex, its just a statement of how wealthy they are or want others to percieve they are. Its like bringing an escort to a dinner party, no matter how good she looks, people know its just something you paid for, and they think less of you.

What I would rather see is our ESO+ cost raised slightly or even another tier of membership like ESO++ where we get everything cosmetic for free.

In a game where subscription gives you everything the game has to offer, cosmetic items become just that, people dont judge your status, people dont feel left out because they had bills to pay, we all just enjoy the game and leave our real life financial status at the door.

Other than a loot crate mechanic or price gouging, is there any fair and effective way to create rarity in ESO? If not then why bother? I will pay more per month for all the content, keep the cash shop for the non-subs and give me the real subscription based game I originally bought into.

I would rather someone see a possession of mine and think "dang that guy has a lot of money to be able to have afforded to spend the money that." Rather than "Dang that guy was really lucky in gambling and won that as a prize." They can make assumptions about my personal character based off of that if they want. Don't care. But maybe that's just me....

Currently we dont know if that person spent hundreds of dollars, or just got lucky with a free crate. If things got put on the crown store it would remove all doubt amd make them exclusive to wallet purchases.

Defilted · December 2017

The owners of ZOS based on research into micro-transactions are seeing that a transactions that give you random item back are making them more money then straight up sales.

If the research said selling all items on the crown store straight up would make more money ZOS would change it tomorrow in the fastest maint cycle you have ever seen.

Apache_Kid · December 2017

badmojo wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Would ESO be a better game if everything was sold straight up for crowns rather than a chance to drop in crown crates?

Would ESO be a better game if crown store cosmetics were free for ESO+ members?

Both of those situations would remove rarity from the crown store cosmetics. Is rarity something people hate about the crown crates? The fact that getting everything or something specific is nearly impossible?

The fact that even throwing money at the crown crates could still not ensure you get everything you want might be the root of the problem a lot of people have with the system, complaining it is gambling just seems like a way to attack the rarity that prevents them from getting everything they want.

Should we as players of ESO expect to be able to get everything? If yes, then how much extra do we expect a player to spend for this luxury?

My opinion is... if crown crates are done away with then rarity goes out the window. Suddenly the sight of a special mount is more like seeing someone wearing a rolex, its just a statement of how wealthy they are or want others to percieve they are. Its like bringing an escort to a dinner party, no matter how good she looks, people know its just something you paid for, and they think less of you.

What I would rather see is our ESO+ cost raised slightly or even another tier of membership like ESO++ where we get everything cosmetic for free.

In a game where subscription gives you everything the game has to offer, cosmetic items become just that, people dont judge your status, people dont feel left out because they had bills to pay, we all just enjoy the game and leave our real life financial status at the door.

Other than a loot crate mechanic or price gouging, is there any fair and effective way to create rarity in ESO? If not then why bother? I will pay more per month for all the content, keep the cash shop for the non-subs and give me the real subscription based game I originally bought into.

I would rather someone see a possession of mine and think "dang that guy has a lot of money to be able to have afforded to spend the money that." Rather than "Dang that guy was really lucky in gambling and won that as a prize." They can make assumptions about my personal character based off of that if they want. Don't care. But maybe that's just me....

Currently we dont know if that person spent hundreds of dollars, or just got lucky with a free crate. If things got put on the crown store it would remove all doubt amd make them exclusive to wallet purchases.

yeah that's more or less my point. If i see someone with one of the apex mounts I assume they got lucky with a reasonable amount of crates purchased as opposed to dropping hundreds on them to get it. I can only go off of what I think is the most likely scenario unless i ask them.

Balamoor · December 2017

Defilted wrote: »

The owners of ZOS based on research into micro-transactions are seeing that a transactions that give you random item back are making them more money then straight up sales.

If the research said selling all items on the crown store straight up would make more money ZOS would change it tomorrow in the fastest maint cycle you have ever seen.

Good point, I was talking to some guildies and we were comparing notes on exactly how much we have spent on Crown Crates....it was considerable, and I imagine that is consistent with most players...so of course ZoS is going to keep and even expand this Business model, the whole government intervention of things like this is a pipe dream, I'm really interested and seeing exactly where ZoS takes this in the future.

vamp_emily · December 2017

I think they should remove "RARE" items from the crown store and put them in game, all other items should be sold in the crown store at reasonable prices.

For example, if Zeni sold dresses for 2 dollars, makeup for 2 dollars, eyelashes for 1 dollar, mounts for 5 dollars, then there is a good chance I will buy them all. I don't need RARE items.

I don't expect anything to be free, just priced fair for everyone. I think the cost to run the game with some profit should be embedded into the price of the base game and DLCs.

Wouldn't it be nice to open a chest and find a "Rare" mount? I think that would make players want to travel the world.

Demycilian · December 2017

Gambling creates addiction.

badmojo · December 2017

RIP thread

KanedaSyndrome · December 2017

Not expected to get everything, no. But a mount that will cost the player an average of 2000 dollars is absurd.

Create rarity through pricing and you'll have ethical rarity. I count Crown Gems as pricing, but having stuff that you can only get through RNG no matter the amount of gems you hold is unethical and probably also a bad business case if you analyze it.

drmambo199 · December 2017

there are other ways to create rarity. I think many can agree that very few people really care about whether or not you have a cool looking mount you got from a random chance box. At most you might get some salt (And rightfully so) from players who spent way too much trying to get said mount with no luck.

I think making these rare mounts a drop with an extremely low chance from a world boss or dungeon boss is a more respectable course of action if rarity was really the goal.

It is clear though that keeping the item rare in the crate gets more money out of players so I can't imagine that will change anytime soon unless actual laws are passed. (A whole other topic there)

I am personally not a fan of loot boxes, but I have seen them handled far worse than here. I am relieved that the crates only contain cosmetic items and garbage consumables. (Though I agree that those consumables should be taken out of the crates) I like that crown gems are at least a thing, but the pay out is pretty low. I dislike that the radiant mounts are gated behind the crate only. If they made those mounts obtainable for a higher gem price, I might be less offended by that, but it would be nice if the loot box craze just died out.

One can dream.

kyle.wilson · December 2017

This is how ZOS sees people that gambled enough to get the apex mounts.

Jaraal · December 2017

badmojo wrote: »

I would argue that ingame rarity isnt real.

I beg to differ. A new player player could kill one monster, loot an Aetheric Cipher, and become a multi-millionaire, whereas a max CP character may have played for years and never gotten one. An unlikely scenario.... but engineered rarity is quite real in-game.

Motherball · December 2017

As much as it hampers multiplayer games, players love exclusivity, especially in America. No goal is worthwhile if you cant show it off to feel better about yourself. Is it any wonder those in business wish to exploit this weakness?

Radiance · December 2017

I would fall for this argument if Every Mount, Cosmetic and Costume wasn't all just Pixels...
DATA that can be Copy & Paste replicated Millions of times AT NO COST!!! They are making Bank GAMBLING on things that do not even exist outside the virtual realms of False reality!!! These Crown crates are a PREDATORY GAMBLING practice implemented into a community of people who play games for hours on end, clearly displaying Addictive behavior!!! They are using your theory of rarity to pray on people... All I see when someone with those "SPECIAL" mounts walk by is someone out probably hundreds of dollars that could have gone to something much more meaningful... like literally anything irl. They are capitalizing on a sickness... There is no rational defense for this...

heaven13 · December 2017

Nestor wrote: »

Rarity should only apply to items that are found/earned in the game. However everyone should have equal access to the effort to earn those items, content access being the only barrier (like not subbing or not buying the DLC that has the new item)

Things where the only effort you make to acquire is to open your wallet and pull out a CC should not have rarity.

Not really sure how rarity benefits the player or the game. If there are enough appearance choices offered, and things can be dyed, then everyone can look different without some arbitrary contrived rarity hidden behind an RNG Based Gambling Scheme.

Bottom line, if someone wants something that is offered up for sale, they should be able to make a Go/No Go decision based on price and desire, and then act or not act on that decision without a mechanism that creates artificial and arbitrary "rarity" in order to manipulate customers buying habits.

I feel like this should be highlighted or stickied or bolded or something. A+