A vote for ZOS to block people from jumping from factions while in the same Campaign

TequilaFire · December 2017

To a true PvP player jumping factions to gain advantage is just as bad as finding a unintended mechanic of avoiding damage from a dungeon boss which PvE players scream about.
Winning a campaign is the point of AvAvA just as defeating all the bosses is in PvE dungeon/trial is.
Those that say they don't play for the campaign are the problem, how long would a player last in a trial if they said they didn't care about finishing the trial and were just there for the xp or loot in a serious group?

jaws343 · December 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

To a true PvP player jumping factions to gain advantage is just as bad as finding a unintended mechanic of avoiding damage from a dungeon boss which PvE players scream about.
Winning a campaign is the point of AvAvA just as defeating all the bosses is in PvE dungeon/trial is.
Those that say they don't play for the campaign are the problem, how long would a player last in a trial if they said they didn't care about finishing the trial and were just there for the xp or loot in a serious group?

I mean I get what you mean, but a trial lasts an hour or so. A campaign can last an entire month. Maybe some people don't want to be stuck playing the same class/race/role for an entire month. And they don't have the add-on that lets them build any race in any alliance. Or one weekend they play with one group of friends and another weekend they play with a different group. But the two groups of friends play on different alliances in the same campaign. But too bad, not allowed to be friends with whoever you want because its not fair right?

kargen27 · December 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

To a true PvP player jumping factions to gain advantage is just as bad as finding a unintended mechanic of avoiding damage from a dungeon boss which PvE players scream about.
Winning a campaign is the point of AvAvA just as defeating all the bosses is in PvE dungeon/trial is.
Those that say they don't play for the campaign are the problem, how long would a player last in a trial if they said they didn't care about finishing the trial and were just there for the xp or loot in a serious group?

Not really the same. Many people head to Cyradiil for small group encounters, solo play, level skills all kinds of things. Cyradiil promotes a variety of activities that really have not much to do with how the alliances are doing.

Trials there is for the most part one goal in mind.

Sevn · December 2017

52% want something done (yes). I didn't mention my agenda.[/quote]

As stated, 52% do not want the same thing done. What you are suggesting would most certainly kill off pvp, by at least 48%. I'll say it one more time, that 52% doesn't want the same thing done.

Sevn · December 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

To a true PvP player jumping factions to gain advantage is just as bad as finding a unintended mechanic of avoiding damage from a dungeon boss which PvE players scream about.
Winning a campaign is the point of AvAvA just as defeating all the bosses is in PvE dungeon/trial is.
Those that say they don't play for the campaign are the problem, how long would a player last in a trial if they said they didn't care about finishing the trial and were just there for the xp or loot in a serious group?

Not even remotely the same thing. The vast majority of players who are grouping up to do trials/dungeons all have similar goals if not singular.

There is no one way to pvp nor is there a right way or a wrong way. People pvp in cyrodiil for a variety of reasons, winning the campaign is just one for a select group. It's this type of mindset of play how I play and enjoy the game the way I enjoy it that breeds toxicity in games.

randomkeyhits · December 2017

Once you see someone in your "alliance" grab a scroll and then run it to one of the enemy alliances, that is when you really want the account level alliance thing to be a reality.

sdtlc · December 2017

When people switch to alternate alliance chars to kill same alliance player who "steal" "their" farming xp ...

TequilaFire · December 2017

Sevn wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

To a true PvP player jumping factions to gain advantage is just as bad as finding a unintended mechanic of avoiding damage from a dungeon boss which PvE players scream about.
Winning a campaign is the point of AvAvA just as defeating all the bosses is in PvE dungeon/trial is.
Those that say they don't play for the campaign are the problem, how long would a player last in a trial if they said they didn't care about finishing the trial and were just there for the xp or loot in a serious group?

Not even remotely the same thing. The vast majority of players who are grouping up to do trials/dungeons all have similar goals if not singular.

There is no one way to pvp nor is there a right way or a wrong way. People pvp in cyrodiil for a variety of reasons, winning the campaign is just one for a select group. It's this type of mindset of play how I play and enjoy the game the way I enjoy it that breeds toxicity in games.

Those of us in PvP guilds also have similar goals and that is winning the campaign as the devs designed and intended an AvAvA game to be played. Sure players have made up their own rules but that is another fail in the "play as you want" in this game because Cyrodiil was not designed with small scale in mind otherwise the scoring system would be designed around k/d rather than objectives captured and held.

TequilaFire · December 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

To a true PvP player jumping factions to gain advantage is just as bad as finding a unintended mechanic of avoiding damage from a dungeon boss which PvE players scream about.
Winning a campaign is the point of AvAvA just as defeating all the bosses is in PvE dungeon/trial is.
Those that say they don't play for the campaign are the problem, how long would a player last in a trial if they said they didn't care about finishing the trial and were just there for the xp or loot in a serious group?

Not really the same. Many people head to Cyradiil for small group encounters, solo play, level skills all kinds of things. Cyradiil promotes a variety of activities that really have not much to do with how the alliances are doing.

Trials there is for the most part one goal in mind.

That is because trials have mechanics in place that limit the players to 12 in the queued group and prevent random players from joining in and doing what they want.
Cyrodiil let's anyone come in and do things that weren't intended without much restriction.

reiverx · December 2017

They should fire up a new campaign where you are locked in an alliance for the duration.

Everyone gets a PVP experience that suits them.

jaws343 · December 2017

randomkeyhits wrote: »

Once you see someone in your "alliance" grab a scroll and then run it to one of the enemy alliances, that is when you really want the account level alliance thing to be a reality.

There is also strategy involved in this. There is nothing more frustrating than someone dropping an enemy scroll at a home keep and having to continuously defend home keeps while the other faction tries to get their scroll back. But if you are making an emp push, running one enemy scroll into the other enemies' territory is a distraction from the center ring. You can get the other two factions to fight over the scroll while you push the map. Scrolls really are more of a hassle than the bonus's are a benefit, and they offer very little incentive to have them for points. Really, taking enemy scrolls is more of a hindrance to a campaign than just leaving them behind the enemy's gate.

TequilaFire · December 2017

jaws343 wrote: »

randomkeyhits wrote: »

Once you see someone in your "alliance" grab a scroll and then run it to one of the enemy alliances, that is when you really want the account level alliance thing to be a reality.

There is also strategy involved in this. There is nothing more frustrating than someone dropping an enemy scroll at a home keep and having to continuously defend home keeps while the other faction tries to get their scroll back. But if you are making an emp push, running one enemy scroll into the other enemies' territory is a distraction from the center ring. You can get the other two factions to fight over the scroll while you push the map. Scrolls really are more of a hassle than the bonus's are a benefit, and they offer very little incentive to have them for points. Really, taking enemy scrolls is more of a hindrance to a campaign than just leaving them behind the enemy's gate.

I disagree having the buffs can make a big difference, it is not just about the points.
And having to defend your keeps is a good thing and promotes more small group fighting around the keeps.
It is also much harder to dethrone a sitting enemy emperor if they have all the scrolls and enemy/home keep bonus on top of the emp bonus.
Debuff them first then go for the dethrone.
But hey I am old school ESO PvP.

logarifmik · December 2017

Yes, and force to choose one faction for account, please. There is almost no sense in choosing side during character creation after One Tamriel was introduced.

Sheridan · December 2017

Back in the days, in Warhammer Online you could only have characters of one alliance on your account. The moment you picked a side, it was truly YOUR SIDE. Sadly, the limitation was removed after a year or so, and there was alot of arguing when they did it.

Sevn · December 2017

reiverx wrote: »

They should fire up a new campaign where you are locked in an alliance for the duration.

Everyone gets a PVP experience that suits them.

Totally agree, would be interesting to see just how popular this type of campaign would be and for how long.

@TequilaFire

I take it you have a link to this mission statement from Zos stating winning the campaign is the ONLY reason to enter cyrodiil? No? Shame, I'd like to read how and why they thought such a strict and singular reason to enter into cyrodiil would play out without ever evolving.

I'm curious as to how all the quests you can partake in help out ones faction. What's that you all are saying, questing isn't part of cyrodiil? Someone should tell Zos as there are way too many of them in there, along with countless other things to do in cyrodiil. My personal favorite? Fishing. Why quest in cyrodiil? Because I find it exhilarating that at any moment death can find me, unlike questing in the rest of tamerial where danger is all but non-existent, let alone death.

All kidding aside, the whole real gamers do this and real pvper's do that is just so cliche.

Joy_Division · December 2017

Those people who think the PvP community hops factions just to get on the winning side are the same people who think the other two Alliances are in cahoots and work together to 2v1 their faction 24-7.

TequilaFire · December 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Those people who think the PvP community hops factions just to get on the winning side are the same people who think the other two Alliances are in cahoots and work together to 2v1 their faction 24-7.

Baloney you can see them change side right within your own guilds when the going gets tough on their original campaign.

dotme · December 2017

I have formed several ideas on how to mitigate the lop-sided PvP population issues. Unfortunately ZOS has never truly expressed any desire to have a conversation about it. So I'm guessing they don't care. The "Lead PvP Designer" might as well be on "missing person" posters at this point.

I'm surprised, because it's going to hit them in the wallet eventually - but no matter how well-intentioned they may be, I don't see the point of future polls and threads on the subject.

There's a reason that most games have even numbers of players on the field/court. Nobody would show up to a football game when one side only fields 3 players. That kind of imbalance is no fun for either team, or the spectators. It's boring.

Some wise person in one of the many forum threads opined that PvP in ESO was broken before the first line of code was written. PvP is good end game content because, unlike the memorization of mechanics in dungeons, PvP has an element of human randomness that keeps it unpredictable and prevents it from growing too stale.

So many people care enough to post ways to help keep the game exciting and I love that. Sadly, I don't think anyone's listening.

TequilaFire · December 2017

Sevn wrote: »

reiverx wrote: »

They should fire up a new campaign where you are locked in an alliance for the duration.

Everyone gets a PVP experience that suits them.

Totally agree, would be interesting to see just how popular this type of campaign would be and for how long.

@TequilaFire

I take it you have a link to this mission statement from Zos stating winning the campaign is the ONLY reason to enter cyrodiil? No? Shame, I'd like to read how and why they thought such a strict and singular reason to enter into cyrodiil would play out without ever evolving.

I'm curious as to how all the quests you can partake in help out ones faction. What's that you all are saying, questing isn't part of cyrodiil? Someone should tell Zos as there are way too many of them in there, along with countless other things to do in cyrodiil. My personal favorite? Fishing. Why quest in cyrodiil? Because I find it exhilarating that at any moment death can find me, unlike questing in the rest of tamerial where danger is all but non-existent, let alone death.

All kidding aside, the whole real gamers do this and real pvper's do that is just so cliche.

Hmm, I can't seem to find any point tracking for questing or trolling zone chat under Campaigns Scoring section.

Sevn · December 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

reiverx wrote: »

They should fire up a new campaign where you are locked in an alliance for the duration.

Everyone gets a PVP experience that suits them.

Totally agree, would be interesting to see just how popular this type of campaign would be and for how long.

@TequilaFire

I take it you have a link to this mission statement from Zos stating winning the campaign is the ONLY reason to enter cyrodiil? No? Shame, I'd like to read how and why they thought such a strict and singular reason to enter into cyrodiil would play out without ever evolving.

I'm curious as to how all the quests you can partake in help out ones faction. What's that you all are saying, questing isn't part of cyrodiil? Someone should tell Zos as there are way too many of them in there, along with countless other things to do in cyrodiil. My personal favorite? Fishing. Why quest in cyrodiil? Because I find it exhilarating that at any moment death can find me, unlike questing in the rest of tamerial where danger is all but non-existent, let alone death.

All kidding aside, the whole real gamers do this and real pvper's do that is just so cliche.

Hmm, I can't seem to find any point tracking for questing or trolling zone chat under Campaigns Scoring section.

Nope, didn't think you would!

Alchemical · December 2017

Having faction spies is 'immersive' as well as annoying as ***. Still, you'd have an easier time assassinating them in meatspace than to convince people Cyrodil is filled with mean spirited cheaters.

Kuramas9tails · December 2017

I defiantly think there should be a "cool down" between jumping factions in Cyrodiil. With that being said, I also think Sewers and Cyrodiil should be separate. IMO.

SaintSubwayy · December 2017

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

I defiantly think there should be a "cool down" between jumping factions in Cyrodiil. With that being said, I also think Sewers and Cyrodiil should be separate. IMO.

agreed, IC and PVP Campains has to get spilt up.

The cooldown should be long enough so its not worth relogging onto other alliance on the same evening. Maybe 6-8 hrs.

Pwnyridah · December 2017

This poll is skewed because you split the yes vote but not the no group.

DjMuscleboy02 · December 2017

Nah this is dumb. If my faction is dominating the campaign I'm not going to keep hop to kill 2 people at a time. I don't enjoy a snoozefest, I'm going to swap with some friends and actually enjoy playing the game.

Edit: I know a lot of people who, like myself, PvP to kill people. We don't care to take keeps or resources or go out of our way to get scrolls. We just like to fight people. I also know people who strategically take keeps and scrolls to actually win campaigns. This would alienate one of those groups of people and probably run more people out of PvP than the current situation ever would.

Hurtfan · December 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Those people who think the PvP community hops factions just to get on the winning side are the same people who think the other two Alliances are in cahoots and work together to 2v1 their faction 24-7.

I've seen the green machine in action many many many many many (you get the point) times in Vivec. Yes sometimes AD and DC are in cahoots. This is not a made up thing. Saw it just yesterday.

Grabmoore · December 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

I think one alliance/campaign is a good suggestion. I´m against having one alliance/account for obvious reasons. At the moment, people selling emperorship and rigging campaigns are an huge issue on Shor (PC/EU). Let me tell you a story:

A few weeks ago I was on my AD character on Shor. The reason I play on Shor is:
#1 I like CP over non-CP
#2 I hate long que-times and excessive lag and therefore avoid Vivec.

(Note that this story is told by another player to me through whisper)
For those who doesn´t are aware of how Shor is at the moment, it´s an emp-selling campaign dominated by DC. But last week during Tuesday/Wednesday AD had a really good chance of crowning an emperor. The guy who was in the current emp-group had suddenly gained a small lead to the player who was #2 on the leaderboard. The group he was in suddenly kicked him, because they had a "secret agreement" to get the #2 player as emp. They kicked the guy who was #1, half of the group relogged to DC faction and kept hunting the #1 AD player down (so he couldn´t farm any AP) and retook the majority of the keeps (Now as DC-players) the same group had taken the hours before. The #1 AD player could because of this not becoming emp. An hour later the map was yellow again, and the guy who was #2 became emp, because the team had swapped back from DC to AD.

If you people think this *** isn´t a problem, you´re either a part of the emp-selling people, or haven´t seen the issue.....

I can confirm this happened. Also people are using a trick, which results on them leaving their EP char and changing to DC shortly after, while the game still registers them as EP. This results in an near empty/half filled EP campaign, which is still Pop locked!

You people either don't want fair fights at all or you are part of the problem...

If the DCs, I meant, read this: Don't set me on ignore after losing 1on1

NyassaV · December 2017

Why is this a huge problem?

idk · December 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

idk wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

So all of you that are opposed to faction locking, what is your solution to one alliance having the most population all the time?
It is absolutely no fun to play a campaign with 3 bars vs 1 vs 1 because everyone is playing with their "friends" on the alliance that just happens to be in the lead. Makes for a long 30 days.

I think the question is for you to answer. That is for you to prove that unlocked factions is why a campaign is lopsided as you suggest. It is up to you to demonstrate that and that locked factions would change it.

BTW, back when we had locked factions most of the campaigns were lopsided. Just FYI.

I know exactly how the campaigns were all the way back to day one as I was there on PC, I was even at the Chalamo.
In no way was it as bad as it is now as you couldn't just change sides at a whim.
Most of us are only asking for a lock for the duration of a campaign to prevent the manipulation that certain guilds are doing now.

Besides the poll being lopsided in design, two in favor of OP and one not in favor of OP

omg your so wrong. When you where in an active campaign during the first year of this game you were mostly dealing with guests. So many were not in their home campaign and many we're not even in their guest campaign. It was a stupid design.

Besides, these rare threads fail to explain why it's an issue if I am not in my DC character so I can be on my AD character. Does it make it so much more challenging for you? Am I somehow cheating? No to both.

What's funny is I remember a emperor defense and we were down to one keep. Most in the alliance who were attempting to dethrone our emperor were from another campaign. They didn't care about our campaign other than the emperor had been in the throne for a week and they felt that was long enough.

So, it makes me wonder if what some things I is happening is really happening which would explain the extreme vagueness on the issue.

Rainraven · December 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Those people who think the PvP community hops factions just to get on the winning side are the same people who think the other two Alliances are in cahoots and work together to 2v1 their faction 24-7.

They'd be winning, if only everybody else weren't such cheating, lying, backstabbing, exploiting, colluding ***, and would get in line with the true meaning of PVP.