Fake tank/heal----Is it math?

Lyserus · December 2017

I know the queue machine has flaws, but until I made some dps roles, I didn't understand the pain dps players have when they queue....it's taking way too long and even in event times.

However it now lead me to a question---- Is it the flaw of queue system, or simply math?
Been a year in this game, and I can tell many ppl have more dps than tank/heal roles...and many have only dps roles.

And then, no matter how brillant the queue system's code is, you simply cannot expect a group to form when this : (dps>(tank+heal)) is true.
Each dungeon require 1 tank 1 heal 2 dps to form, and if number of dps is two times and bigger than the number of tank/heal, it's an inevidible problem.

Here I hope maybe @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom can give us some data on this (not the data during event tho, everyone is faking roles)?

WuffyCerulei · December 2017

The reason why the dps queue takes so long is because there are so many dps out there. They're a dime a dozen.

Zapzarap · December 2017

A normal thing in every MMO. There are ~5 to 10 times more DD's in the game than Tanks and Heals.

ESO makes it a bit worse in Dungeons because you have a 4 people mechanism (2DD, 1 Heal, 1 Tank) instead of (most MMO's) 5 people Dungeons (3DD's, 1 Heal, 1 Tank).

Anyway, what makes it a bit strange ist that you need 2 DD's for one Heal and Tank in a Dungeon but 4 DD's for one Heal/Tank in a Raid (there you normally have 2 Tanks, 2 Heals and 8 DD's).

MaleAmazon · December 2017

I´d advise people who play only DPS to make an off-bar with tank or heal and learn the basics.

You should be able to fulfill the role in normal dungeons, and you´ll learn more about the game.

Also it´s fun

zaria · December 2017

By default all are DD, as Zapzarap says this is common in MMO and ESO is worse because 4 man group.
I have solo healed nSO, not sure if that tricks work for the other normal trials because you have to split up and later trials are harder, but dd and heal builds are very close.

Problem is worse in normal dungeons as normal has all the ones leveling so focus on damage and also lots of casuals.
That said has not had issues with tanks during the event, I mostly heal.
I say less than usual, just before i ran normal Blessed Crucible, tank died all the time, sword and board, 25K health, armor looked heavy.
I healed and had mutagen and combat prayer up most of the time, more after I noticed tank hand issues.
more comical in that none other died, even after tank was down. I guess its an skill

MaleAmazon · December 2017

If you tank too much you will die though, since you will run out of stamina.

The annoying part is that if you are at a part where you have to block a lot (e.g. Falkreath) you will be the one to die when you are the tank, if the other players are not doing their part. Poor DPS = need to block for a long time = run out of stamina = death.

"Tank WTF U DOIN U DIE ALL THE TIME"

Ok that^ didnt happen, but its just sheer luck IMO.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · December 2017

It is for this reason I trained my main up to use the Resto Staff early. I tried to build my first alt to be a tank, but it turns out I don't have the patience to learn to tank.

eso_nya · December 2017

Its simple math.

For some reason, newer players seem to be under the impression, that dd is the easiest role, maybe cause theres 2 of them, so u can hide behind the other one.

Generally, population of DDs is far higher than population of tanks and healers (like in any mmo ever).

Combine that with the fact that good tanks and healers usually have a very easy time finding friends/guilds and thus rarely actually use random grp finders. (This is a bit "better" in eso, as tanks can spec for selfsustain and dont really rely on healers, u dont find that many "longterm healer-tank relationsships").

Now from tanking/healing perspective, pugging _can_ be really painful: DDs pulling a total of 1k dps and dungeon takes forever. tank doesnt know what a taunt is, all the mobs chase the healer. healer doesnt heal, tanks vigor is 90% of total grps healing.

So additionally to already lower heler and tank populations, an even smaller amount of those actually uses grpfinder.

So if u want fast qs, roll a tank, roll a healer, or try to convince a tank or healer that u can do great dps and hope they ask u to run with them xD

MaleAmazon · December 2017

For some reason, newer players seem to be under the impression, that dd is the easiest role, maybe cause theres 2 of them, so u can hide behind the other one.

Also people are under the impression that not being able to block, taunt or heal automatically makes them "damage dealers".

BlanketFort · December 2017

This is why I rolled a tank and healer. Queue times on a DD are excruciating, even moreso outside of peak time. If my friends are offline or busy, I can easily get my dose of group play through PUGs.

disintegr8 · December 2017

I have 2 dedicated tanks and I love running dungeons on them.

I think the problem is that experienced DD's have exceeded the damage needed in normal dungeons by so much, that if 2 or 3 get in the same dungeon, there is often very little requirement for a real tank. This is especially the case in non DLC dungeons, most of which can be soloed or two manned.

If there was a more genuine need for tanks, there might be a lot more out there. If I want to get one of my DD's into a dungeon using group finder, I get my friend to jump on his healer or tank and we pair up before grouping - always a short wait time. The next time he's leveling a DD, we change over and I tank or heal.

MaleAmazon · December 2017

If there was a more genuine need for tanks, there might be a lot more out there. If I want to get one of my DD's into a dungeon using group finder, I get my friend to jump on his healer or tank and we pair up before grouping - always a short wait time. The next time he's leveling a DD, we change over and I tank or heal.

My guess is you dont see dedicated tanks because you cant solo play very effectively with them, coupled with the hassle of creating a new character; partly because normal mechanics like mount speed are locked behind paywalls of sorts.

AlienatedGoat · December 2017

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

The reason why the dps queue takes so long is because there are so many dps out there. They're a dime a dozen.

And the number of them that can actually pull good numbers is much, much less.

Nothing pains me more than playing my tank or heals and getting paired with a couple of wet noodle DDs.