It’s hard to tell. I chose fake support simply because I’m a DD. I’ve experienced both terrible dps and fake tank/heal, they can be equally bad. However, for me there’s nothing as infuriating as dying at 5% boss health due to lack of healing.

From experience across multiple MMOs - specialists (tanks and healers) who do not know their role can ruin a run in a nanosecond. Whereas even poor DPS will eventually drop whatever needs to be dropped. I personally prefer a longer but successful run with few or no deaths to a "quickie" with so many deaths your armour nearly breaks.

Important exceptions to this would be either a) fights with mechanics that require knocking things down at a certain speed (e.g. where you accumulate DOT stacks, or where you have to clear adds quickly); and b) fights with regeneration mechanics where you need a minimum level of DPS to "break the tank" of the boss (EVE Online term). So yes, there are absolutely instances when someone being poor at DPS destroys the run. But, generally speaking, across the ESO content I've done thus far (dungeons and WBs but not trials), I'd rather have good specialists first and focus on burn rate second.

Worst is fake roles being the bad dps. In certain dungeons you must have tank but other than that good players can easily do the majority of the content quickly using selfheals.

Fake support doesnt bother me. Any dungeon is doable with 4 decent dps.

I imagine the answer to this question depends on what role you play. For example, I play damage dealer and so if the other dd is terrible I can just pick up the slack.

Probably the same if you play healer/tank you can accommodate for another crappy support but you feel the pain of low damage.

Thing that most bothers me is if someone is dying all the time. Even if you're bad at your role, if you can stay alive at least the rest of the team doesn't have to waste time rezzing. Of course being bad and dying a lot go hand in hand usually.

Bad players, fake role queue jumpers and CP 690 speed runners doing normal dungeons ... they are all a pain in groups but I'll give the bad players more of a pass because they're learning or can't help themselves. The others are just selfish tools that should stick to what their anti-social personalities make them good at: soloing.

Bad heals or tank if I'm DPSing is doable. Bad DPS if I'm tanking is bad news.

I don't PUG if I don't have some time to burn with people who are still learning.

As somebody who fake tanks when farming dungeons I can't say the other ;-). I provide quick, smooth, death free runs and I always wait for questers (basically every run).

I have 2 healers and a tank and unless I'm running with guildies I rarely use them. Most of my pug experiences with them is spent thinking 'My dps chars can do more damage than this whole group...'. Bad DDs are a blight on this game and ZOS needs to do a bit more to train them.

So unless you fake queue into a hard dungeon I don't care. Pugs are a *** storm so I bring an umbrella every time (self heal and shield).

Y'all don't even notice when I'm not even healing.

SydneyGrey wrote: »

If people do PUGs, they are going to get terrible DPS at some point, reason being there are only three categories, and if someone knows they aren't either a healer or a tank, they're forced to check the "DPS" box no matter how good/bad their DPS actually is. (Either that or not do the dungeon at all.) If a player is new to doing dungeons, they're going to check off the DPS box, and might not really know what they're doing. I think this is forgiveable, because every player has to start somewhere.

Fake healers and tanks, though, are obnoxious because it might be a case where they queued as those roles just to jump in line ahead of people. I can't stand that.

Yeah, this is very true.

It's also worth remembering, you will sometimes encounter new players who queue as a tank or healer, thinking they can do the job, but really aren't there yet. Including, "well, I'm in heavy armor, so I must be a tank," reasoning.

jabrone77 wrote: »

I'm more upset how players won't rez the dead and just leave it up to me and wonder why the group wipes than either of these other two problems.
If someone dies in the group, rez them people! I don't know why this is such a thing, but it happens in pugs all the time.

Generally I give a pugger 3 chances, if you die 3 times to a one-shot mechanic then I stop rezzing you. Unless it's a hard dungeon of course, then we all have to work together.

KeiruNicrom wrote: »

Terrible dps just means fights are slow. Bad support can mean lots of unnessicary deaths and confusing battles while mobs run around chasing a tank that doesnt stand still or refuses to taunt

'Bad' support, in my experience, is rarely due to 'fake' support. Let's not confuse the two ideas. A tank who doesn't taunt or runs around a lot is rarely a fake tank, just a bad one. Just like a healer who doesn't provide resources or heals is rarely a fake healer, just a bad one.

A 'fake' tank is just a DPS who queued as a tank. All they really need to do then is slot Inner Rage and taunt the bosses to tank, they're not as effective as a pure tank but their DPS should more than make up for it. Would you prefer a real tank who CC'ed the trash? or a fake tank who adds 60k+ dps against trash?

Zimbugga wrote: »

I hope you meant healer, not support. I didn't know that game have support role too. You know healer and support are different roles, right?


Fake healer is worse than bad DPS. We have just one healer and two DPS. The healer's role is keep everyone alive, so if healer is bad then DPS is terrible too. DPSs' role isn't keep theirselves alive. It's healer's job. It's good if DPS can heal himself/herself, but it's always bad to their DPS. They lost their resources.

Let's think tanks too. I have experience to be tank and group had bad healer. It's not funny to revive everyone and heal myself. Now you think: "Hey! It's tank's role to keep damage to himself/herself!". I know. There are bosses, who don't care about taunt or they have skills, which make AOE.

I have one tip to templar healers: Check your passives. There is passive named "Master Ritualist" in "Restoring Light" -skill line. You can revive players faster, when you unlock that. I hope you will exploit it in dungeons or PVP.

Honestly in this game calling it "support" is more true than calling it "healer", at least the way that most people fill the role. The HP pool to size of heal ratio is ridiculous in this game, you can full heal any non-tank in a single global with an ability with no CD. When thats the case people focus more on supporting rather than healing, because otherwise they would only need 1 ability on their bar.

Kanar wrote: »

I imagine the answer to this question depends on what role you play. For example, I play damage dealer and so if the other dd is terrible I can just pick up the slack.

Probably the same if you play healer/tank you can accommodate for another crappy support but you feel the pain of low damage.

Thing that most bothers me is if someone is dying all the time. Even if you're bad at your role, if you can stay alive at least the rest of the team doesn't have to waste time rezzing. Of course being bad and dying a lot go hand in hand usually.

I usually pug as healer because then I can at least help with dps. I tend not to pug as tank b/c I run high HP low damage support tanks, so I agree to a certain extent.

As a healer I absolutely abhor the fake tanks over anyone else, because they're forcing me to pick up their slack without my consent, and they do this as a policy without any consideration for other people. Its a breakdown of the social trust, these are the kind of people who cause the free rider problem in the societal providing of public goods.

Honestly in the best of all worlds for pugging normals I would love to heal for basically a stam DD with caltrops and a S&B filling the tank role. Caltrops is great for initiating on packs of trash and grouping them, if the DD has Chains then all the better. Then S&B for puncture is imo a must just for boss management.

*** fake tanks fail to realize that when you cant AoE trash and instead all 3 DDs are running around in circles and trying to single-target each individual enemy individually every single pack of trash takes 2x as long. The same concept applies to bosses, if the boss doesnt hold still your group damage is halved because you cant rely on placed abilities, and if your group has no Puncture then there's another 10% of your group's damage gone.
Fake tanks are thus not only fraudulent, they're dumb, a single extra damage dealer does not make up for the chaos of not having enemy management.

Runefang wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

Personally I think fake tanks is far worse than fake DPS because of the attitude of the perpetrator.

A *** DPS is usually just some kindly, affable, potato. They're nice people doing their best, its just that their best isnt very good. Thats ok, this is a game and they're not paid to be here, no need for performance reviews.

A fake tank is almost always some callous sheister gaming the system because they think that rules don't apply to them. If they're ever questioned or called out on not being a tank, or at least slotting a taunt, their attitude is always horrendous. As you can tell I'm biased, but when I approach these fake tanks I always stay polite because what I want out of them is for them to fill their role, not an argument. Still, 9/10 times they're complete dirtbags about it as soon as the topic is broached.
That last 10% of the time its just some noob who has no idea what a taunt is, or they checked the wrong box in groupfinder accidentally, no hard feelings.

Lol. Sounds like your attitude is also a problem. I've never seen a fake tank who didn't just carry a group through the dungeon. There are plenty of bad tanks, very few bad fake tanks.

And there is a need for performance reviews quite frankly, I'm not here to run a normal dungeon for an hour when it should be done in 15-20 minutes. My game time is limited and therefore important to me.

I dont bring my attitude into the dungeon. It doesnt help.

A fake tank is by definition bad, since they dont fill the role they signed up for. If they dont slot a taunt, dont manage trash packs, and dont hold the boss still, then they are a fake tank, and the dungeon takes longer because of their self-involvement. I do not care if the person in the tank slot has 10k hp as long as they do those 3 things.

You simply cannot "carry" a dungeon as a fake tank unless you are literally soloing it. They might be more self-sufficient than the people who legitimately queued as DPS, thus doing more damage, but since they are making the dungeon harder for the other DPS they are serving as an active detriment to the completion of the dungeon, not carrying it. The only way to carry as a tank is to do your job and do it well. If you can do a bunch of damage while also doing your job then congratulations, but if you're just doing damage while letting the rest of the dungeon devolve into chaos then you are actually making things take longer.