ESO Alliances are messed up

Iccotak · November 2017

To put it simply. How the Zenimax handled the Alliances in Elder Scrolls Online was poor.

They hyped up how important the Alliances were in the game. Much like how WoW did. Making the Alliance War as a/the central conflict in the game. Problem being, unless it's PvP, Alliance doesn't really matter in the game.
The decision to let players, after they complete their factions story, to visit the other alliances made the option to choose a side kind of meaningless.
Why would I make a character in the Daggerfall Covenant to learn about them, when I can still do that storyline with my Ebonheart Pact character?

Now the adventure pack that allows players to pick any race for any faction DOES have some lore that supports it.
For Example: Not all the Argonians were ok with the Ebonheart Pact because they didn't want to ally themselves with the Dark Elves, so they fled and found safe haven in Valenwood.
There is also the fact that the major guilds are not involved in the war and therefore have members of all races.

I understand that people want to play with their friends no matter their alliance and I understand that people do not want areas closed off to them. I am not arguing against that.
I perfectly understand on a game mechanics level where that perspective is coming from.

I am speaking from an Role Playing point of view; ZOS does not make faction loyalty matter in the world and story.
The reason I have a problem with this is because the players themselves don't really care about alliances. From personal experience; It is more fun when people care more about what's going on in the world. ZOS should encourage player investment in factions. ESO should have players with firm political identities who feel strongly about their alliance.

Perhaps instead of Ebonheart players going through the exact same storylines as players from AD & DC did in their zones (and vice versa), they could have their own alliance storylines.
When I am in Glenumbra I want Ebonheart specific storylines.
If I am from AD and am in Shadowfen then I want storylines unique to my alliance. (like maybe hunting down the renegades who went about killing Argonian children in the name of the Domion)
If you have friends in another faction that want to join in then share the quest, but otherwise it should feel like a continuation of your story and not restarting in another alliance.

However, I do not see this happening now but it is something I would like ZOS to take into consideration for the future. Maybe have an Expansion that updates the base game zone quest content to be more relevant with what is going on currently and add more alliance related stuff to do, therefore making alliance choice more pertinent.

What Are Your Thoughts? Comment Below!

newtinmpls · November 2017

I agree with you, and you have some interesting ideas about how to fix it.

SaintSubwayy · November 2017

As you said, they wanted to make the Alliances important. I myself liked that you could play the other Stories aswell after finishing your Alliance's storyline.

However, i dont understand why ppl can have mutliple chars in the same campain, but they can be different Alliances.
1 Account, 1 Alliance for all chars, (and with Adventurer Pack every race Possible for each Alliance) would have made much more sense (imo).

You would have to choose wisely which Alliance you'd want to Support in PVP, and you'd have to discus this with friend you'd wanted to play with.

Lyserus · November 2017

let 1 character experience different alliance storyline is a mistake that cannot be turned back. ZOS could have letting ppl create chars in different alliance, and each of them has "unique" quest lines, but making 1 char experience all storylines will break immersion and you don't take alliances serious after that. Sadly it's irreverseable. （The only way out is letting your character pick alliance again after finishing all 3 questlines）.

The problem with any race any alliance is that AD will crown non-mer as emperor, which makes no sense

Rohamad_Ali · November 2017

That is a well written argument ... I also fully agree and wish faction meant more to the story .

Kel · November 2017

Just from a gameplay mechanic standpoint, I like that the factions don't mean too much. After playing WoW for years and having faction conflict being forced down your throat, even long after the point of it making any logical sence, ESO is a breath of fresh air.
As far as lore/roleplay goes, every faction side has a quest that has you, the player, try and bring your pact races together because your alliance is already on shaky ground and can fall apart in a moment. So, right from the jump, your alliance isn't really that strong. And this time frame is just a snapshot in Tamriel's history. The alliances sort of disolve after these events and the Aldmeri Dominion is really the only alliance that mores forward at least into the 4th era.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Aldmeri_Dominion_(Skyrim)

Even after, races are known to mix and hold allegiances to thier individual preferences. I see the alliances as political/government, where the individual is free to make up thier own mind. And as the "vestige", either way you are free from political alignment anyway. Your choice of race/alliance is a game mechanic choice.
So, as you say, just from a RP standpoint, it makes perfect sence the way it's set up, and having you choose a alliance is really the weird part...not the other way around. Skyrim had shown men actually working for the interests of the Thalmor, for example.
The factions are tentative at best, brought together more from the players effort than the races wanting to work together of thier own accord. I'm fine with it really only being a PvP mechanic. It fits lore and RP better that way.

Iccotak · November 2017

@jabrone77 I do not have a problem with race choices for any faction. There is existing lore that supports races being part of other factions. Like you said; you also have to take into account the individual and what ideology they support.
However, maybe the races should maybe matter a little more in the world story wise. I mean why would AD ever accept a Nord? Truth is that race did matter but ZOS undermined that and there's no going back from that.

I do not see alliance choice as a game mechanic choice when you can choose any race. Even if you do not have that option, it comes down to what race you like the best and maybe take into account what kind of group you are deciding to join.
At that point it is; "What political ideology would you be more invested in?"
The alliance stories serve as a way to invest players into that faction but I am saying that they could have done more after the Molag Bal crisis to make you involved with your alliance (besides PvP)

Izaki · November 2017

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

As you said, they wanted to make the Alliances important. I myself liked that you could play the other Stories aswell after finishing your Alliance's storyline.

However, i dont understand why ppl can have mutliple chars in the same campain, but they can be different Alliances.
1 Account, 1 Alliance for all chars, (and with Adventurer Pack every race Possible for each Alliance) would have made much more sense (imo).

You would have to choose wisely which Alliance you'd want to Support in PVP, and you'd have to discus this with friend you'd wanted to play with.

So a new guy who just bought the game who doesn't know anyone makes a AD character because he doesn't have the Adventurer pack yet. Then he becomes mates with a guys who play in DC. What happens then? Does the guy have to make another account? I'm sorry but account wide factions are just a terrible idea.

RebornV3x · November 2017

Yeah they handled factions wrong first of all a odd number of alliances 3 was dumb as hell whomever thought that was a good idea should be fired.
It should have been only 2 alliances no more no less.
Second factions should have only mattered in PvP ie not tied to character creation from the start and upon entering PvP after lv 10 you get to pick a side the factions should be Imperial Remnants (fighting to defend what's left of Cyrodill) vs Rebel/ independent factions/ mercenary that wish to take the ruby throne for themselves.
While the Pact, Daggerfall and Dominion. Could exist they are not at war with each other technically from a lore perspective the Daggerfall and Pact shouldn't exist anyways but eh
( also getting to rechoose your faction every so often so your not permanently lock to a faction would be nice too also making your character locked to a campaign so you can join the other side on another character)

Iccotak · November 2017

RebornV3x wrote: »

Yeah they handled factions wrong first of all a odd number of alliances 3 was dumb as hell whomever thought that was a good idea should be fired.
It should have been only 2 alliances no more no less.
Second factions should have only mattered in PvP ie not tied to character creation from the start and upon entering PvP after lv 10 you get to pick a side the factions should be Imperial Remnants (fighting to defend what's left of Cyrodill) vs Rebel/ independent factions/ mercenary that wish to take the ruby throne for themselves.
While the Pact, Daggerfall and Dominion. Could exist they are not at war with each other technically from a lore perspective the Daggerfall and Pact shouldn't exist anyways but eh
( also getting to rechoose your faction every so often so your not permanently lock to a faction would be nice too also making your character locked to a campaign so you can join the other side on another character)

Well Bethesda is in charge of Lore. So the argument of lore breaking doesn't really work. Especially since they can't just go on and get rid of them.
Also I like the 3 action system. There are more world powers in the world than the US and Russia.

I don't have a problem with character creation. My problem is that once the story is over, alliance has no relevancy in the story.
For Example; the next expansion will be Summerset Isle, why would anyone besides AD be allowed to go there?
Morrowind made sense because Vvardenfel is not part of the Ebonheart Pact. But Summerset is the AD high command.
Even if we do go there. We should have storylines specific to our alliances. OR at least have the story acknowledge what alliance you belong to.

JWKe · November 2017

Zo$ took a big risk creating a MMO with a tri-faction conflict but it just didn't work out the way they imagined. I'll give them some props for that.

mikecrci · November 2017

Suggestion: sabotage missions when playing a rival Alliance's regions. Examples: give you alliance rewards anytime you steal, kill NPCs that reside in rival Faction zones, etc... If enough players perform these random acts of sabotage in enemy faction areas, it should tally up and affect the War in Cryodiil in some tangible way.

Zimbugga · November 2017

Those three alliances are most importan part of lore in this game. I agree with you. I hope, for example, Argonian has different speaking choices in Daggerfall Covenant area. It's funny too when your High Elf character calls Jorunn to his/her "king". In fact, when I do character I just thought race, not alliance. I think, if they make free alliance choice, then players will more think their character's alliance. I mean: You can choose your race and alliance free.

This isn't for topic (maybe?), but if you choose some of red choices, it won't influence future. I want to see my choices when I continue storyline. When I played this game first time, I thought my choices will influence future. I was little dissapointed, because I was wrong. I know, this isn't TellTale game, but I still want something like that.

Katahdin · November 2017

So you're basically asking for them to rewrite the story in every zone for every alliance, do voiceovers for same.

Not gonna happen

Iccotak · November 2017

Katahdin wrote: »

So you're basically asking for them to rewrite the story in every zone for every alliance, do voiceovers for same.

Not gonna happen

Its not impossible. But I'm not saying that the whole zone should be re-written, but maybe make some changes based on alliance choice and what is currently happening.

SirAxen · November 2017

It feels more true to Elder Scrolls now like it is. For better or worse, I enjoy it the way it currently is overall.

Rainraven · November 2017

JWKe wrote: »

Zo$ took a big risk creating a MMO with a tri-faction conflict but it just didn't work out the way they imagined. I'll give them some props for that.

They did a bunch of stuff that was out-of-the-box, and I don't always love the outcome, but I agree: credit for trying new things.

Xoelarasizerer · November 2017

As interesting as I'd find 9 different alliance-long storylines based on what alliance you belong to and what one you are visiting, instead of the 3 we have.. I think ZoS might've had a panic attack with tripling their efforts in content/story creating.

But without any recognition or awareness (via dialogue changes) from important members of other alliances that you are from another alliance, Cadwell's Gold and Silver do mean very little now outside of the few rewards you can get (I feel as though they should both be changed up in some way... like letting you replay storylines or something more meaningful.)

KingMagaw · November 2017

Wait until ZOS release alliance change tokens for 5k Crowns then you will really see PvP messed up

Zerg fo lyfe

Doctordarkspawn · November 2017

Honestly? The factions were allways a thing created specifically for PVP. It is because PVP was such a focus of the games development, that the game is set in this time period.

I honestly think it'd be a better game from the ground up if it wasn't.

Urza1234 · November 2017

OP makes a great argument.

Unfortunately ZOS doesnt give half a guar turd about your opinion.

Lylith · November 2017

KingMagaw wrote: »

Wait until ZOS release alliance change tokens for 5k Crowns then you will really see PvP messed up

Zerg fo lyfe

i'm not convinced of that.

most faction jumpers simply run alts.

jmho.

Narvuntien · November 2017

Remember that "Which faction is the good guys" Thread.

The poll was exactly 33% each.
People were vehemetly arguing thier points.
So the players actually care even if they run thier characters through all the storylines.

The base game kind of really needs an update, the DLCs are much better versions of the game now. The base game seems streached thin over all this space. I kind of wish they could go back in time and take what they have learnt and do it again.

I understand your point but I feel like the based game is kind of stuck as this relic and the DLCs are where this game moves forward (as terrible as that seems). I want to have a DLC where which alliance you choose results in a completely different story. Perhaps.. Skingrad? or Bravil?

Streega · November 2017

I was very unpleasantly surprised when I learned that Cadwell's Silver and Gold is just repeating the opposite alliance stories - that makes no sense at all. Why would you help your enemies to fight your allies? Ideally, every alliance should have it's own continuation, which makes 9 huge quest lines to write. Realistically it could be 1 "main" story line and one Cadwell's story for every alliance, which makes 6 stories in total. In the Cadwell's part you could help local folk instead of engaging in the war on the opposite side, plus the "neutral" side quests. Hell, they could simply modify some of the existing side quests to make the Cadwell's quest line and avoid the additional work...
As for the "one account, one alliance" - I agree, it should be one alliance for the duration of the campaign.

starkerealm · November 2017

Streega wrote: »

Why would you help your enemies to fight your allies?

Because you're not actually there. Or, more accurately, you're in an alternate timeline, following what would have happened if you were a member of that alliance from the beginning.

To be fair, Silver and Gold weren't part of the original plan. You were supposed to hit level 50, then go to Cyrodiil, and have your adventures there. The Silver and Gold NG+ zones were added to allow players, specifically, to interact with zones they'd otherwise miss out on, after complaints.

logarifmik · November 2017

This is one of the main reason why I don't want to start a new walkthrough.
Before One Tamriel there was a decent explanation for fighting with your enemy at one side, but now it looks weird. Besides, some quests look quite illogical. For example, during The Sweetroll Killer quest in DB DLC you met both Razum-dar and Naryu, and both of them can know you at the moment. Question is how they see you? Like just the same person? Well, anyway the can't know you both at the same time, if you consider that Cadwell's Gold and Silver are in alternate timeline, no? And that is only one example of logical error in the scenario, I bet one can find more.
I think, devs really need to remake all this idea around main company side and main quests on the enemies territory. We can still have Miridia's way to look at your enemy, but only after you complete main campaign and with the help of honorable sir Cadwell. If player go to the enemy territory by ship or some other non-daedric way, he should end up in a hostile region with brand-new quests, both side and main questline should be altered. I know, this is a lot of work, but hey, what about a new chapter? I'll pay for this, you have my word. I even preorder it, like I've preordered Morrowind chapter.
There is only one more thing. In some quests we can make some decisions, and they have consequences. It'll be much-much better if we have more such moments and this consequences will influence world much more then now.

TheShadowScout · November 2017

Iccotak wrote: »

Why would I make a character in the Daggerfall Covenant to learn about them, when I can still do that storyline with my Ebonheart Pact character?

For me it was... because at that point, I did not know about Cadwells yet???

If I had known... I would have been -sorely- tempted to make ALL my characters in the Pact!

Iccotak wrote: »

I am speaking from an Role Playing point of view; ZOS does not make faction loyalty matter in the world and story.
The reason I have a problem with this is because the players themselves don't really care about alliances. From personal experience; It is more fun when people care more about what's going on in the world. ZOS should encourage player investment in factions. ESO should have players with firm political identities who feel strongly about their alliance.

Perhaps instead of Ebonheart players going through the exact same storylines as players from AD & DC did in their zones (and vice versa), they could have their own alliance storylines...

Nope. because the fluff they spun is that these ebonheart pact players are -not- travelling to other alliances, they are experiencing all of cadwells as "alternate timeline" showing what might have been had they dropped in the water after coldharbour elsewhere and joined -this- or -that- alliance instead of the one you picked during chargen...

What I -would- have loved were more "special" choice options. Like... special choices that only appear if you are playing that quest in cadwells with a member of the right alliance. Kinda like that one quest in Alik'r, where you catcvh a pact spy... there really is no logical reason for any DC character to let her take the blueprint and scurry off, but all my pact characters playing that storyline did so... more like that would have been fine. Meet some of your original faction during cadwells? Go easy on them (unless they are cu... uhm... not worth it), whereas all others get the logical choices...

Of course, I would love that for many other instances as well. Quests where I feel the game ought to treat dunmer and argonians quite differently, and not just in some minor diualouge points, but... demand extra effort to buiold trust from one (depending), give extra reward to one (depending), have an option available for ome race that the others don't get, and so on. hey, it would rise replayability fun for those altaholics of us...

starkerealm wrote: »

To be fair, Silver and Gold weren't part of the original plan. You were supposed to hit level 50, then go to Cyrodiil, and have your adventures there. The Silver and Gold NG+ zones were added to allow players, specifically, to interact with zones they'd otherwise miss out on, after complaints.

Yeah, that's what we all figured I guess.
And it has its good points, truly. Just... could have been done better I guess...

Jarryzzt · November 2017

So essentially the OP wants more content.

Well, fine. I want more content too. Does not mean I am going to get such, outside of a once in six-to-twelve months DLC. Unless the OP wishes to make ZOS a gift of enough money to finance an extra 50 developers, testers, voice actors, etc. to make and integrate said content, which I personally do not and cannot, for one.

Furthermore, what the OP really wants is exclusive content. That is, content that is visible only to one of the three alliances (I quote: "When I am in Glenumbra I want Ebonheart specific storylines."). I.e. an AD or DC player would not see EP storylines for Glenumbra, to follow on with that example.

My understanding, and I agree with this game design philosophy, is that ZOS did not want any exclusive content but rather to make all content (eventually) available to all players (at the same level of subscription or non-subscription). Really, the only way to accommodate the OP's request for EP-specific storylines in Glenumbra is to expand the EP main quest line to encompass more regions (such as Glenumbra), but that would still let AD and DC characters play through them once they gained access to said EP quest line.

TLDR - what the OP wants is not going to happen in this game. Thus, the OP is encouraged to find some other way to "care" about alliances, or, alternatively, to remain discontented.

Kiralyn2000 · November 2017

Not only would that be a crazy amount of additional content to make (double the original PvE content, roughly? 6 more faction-areas worth of questlines, 30 zones), but it would be content that many would never see...

What I mean by that is, how many players would play three characters through nine "factions" worth of quests? This isn't the pre-1T days, when you needed all those extra zones to get to Vet16. (Heck, I wonder what the stats are for "players who've completed all three factions, on any combination of characters" Is it even 50%? 25%, maybe?)

edit: and it would bring back the "but I can't play with my friend!" issues that were part of the reason for 1T. Sure, you can go to another faction's zone, but you'd be in a different questline/different "phase" of the zone...

ArchMikem · November 2017

I wanted to somehow be a part of the Imperial Legion. Their grim resistance against the Daedric Invasion is an interesting story to me, especially the "Defectors" who held themselves up in a District of the Imperial City, not to mention the order that went out recalling every Legion back to Cyrodiil to retake the city. Now that's a War Story.

EvilCroc · November 2017

ZOS should erase all this "Alliance war" nonsense. Remove PvP from the game and remake Cyrodiil zone into the epic endgame PvE content.