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Do you think the EA star wars battlefront loot crate crisis will affect other games including ESO?
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JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder whatever happened to personal responsibility? I talk, of course, about all those stating that these kinds of things prey on the vulnerable who are susceptible to addiction etcetera.
Why must we nanny people so, rather than having them take personal responsibility for their actions? If I spent all my rent money on crown crates then that would be my fault. Not the fault of ZOS. But I never would, personally. I was taught the value of money.
The crates in ESO. They in no way contain anything that is necessary to play the game. If they contained things that you needed to progress or had to grind for hundreds of hours to progress then yes. I agree that’s shady. But we are talking about cosmetics. Barring the odd pop up when logging in, you don’t even have to see the Crown Store.
I have honestly never understood the outrage over them in this game.Sweetrolls for all!
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Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!4 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I wonder whatever happened to personal responsibility? I talk, of course, about all those stating that these kinds of things prey on the vulnerable who are susceptible to addiction etcetera.
Why must we nanny people so, rather than having them take personal responsibility for their actions? If I spent all my rent money on crown crates then that would be my fault. Not the fault of ZOS. But I never would, personally. I was taught the value of money.
The crates in ESO. They in no way contain anything that is necessary to play the game. If they contained things that you needed to progress or had to grind for hundreds of hours to progress then yes. I agree that’s shady. But we are talking about cosmetics. Barring the odd pop up when logging in, you don’t even have to see the Crown Store.
I have honestly never understood the outrage over them in this game.
I guess I would ask, if you don’t understand it, why would you care if it had items you needed to progress or things that were only unlockable after hundreds of hours of grinding? Right because those are the things you care about. Game balance. Balance in pvp. I know this is hard for people into stats and being the bestest to understand, but there are people that care about cosmetics as much as people care about game balance.
Im glad ea actually made the mistake of making the other half of the spectrum mad. Ive gotten tired of the lines, oh it is ok the stuff you care about you have to try to purchase randomly, at least the stuff I care about I can earn in game, so it is ok.
Anyway, if you can understand why locking game progression in loot boxes might upset some people, you can understand why locking cosmetics into loot boxes might upset people. You just don’t want to, because you don’t care that much about cosmetics.5 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nolangrady wrote: »...we have analysts suggesting developers raise game prices.
Salient point on that guy. He's an in-house analyst for EA, and sits in on their investor call. That CNBC piece wasn't just an analyst being out of touch.0 -
Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
✭As you so rightly pointed out, this affords no protection to minors exposed to in-game purchases, and exactly what the publisher wants.
oh come on. if i recall the correct game name, farmville was far worse for peoples bills than this game ever was. i know, because i was always dealing with complaints from customers whose kids racked up bills buying stuff in it without their parents knowledge. there was no outrage about that game and kids and money
so if they increased the drop rates in crates, most people would be happy?
#keepcrates0 -
Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hope it does. I want video games to return back to when it was about making a game with great lore, environments, unique game play mechanics, and actual difficulty. This era of “games of chance” and psychological conditioning can die in a fire.
and without their source of income from crates, free to play dies. and all you non subbers either start paying, or leave. it wont be about whether or not you want to pay (for crates), you wont be given a choice but to pay (to play)0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I hope it does. I want video games to return back to when it was about making a game with great lore, environments, unique game play mechanics, and actual difficulty. This era of “games of chance” and psychological conditioning can die in a fire.
and without their source of income from crates, free to play dies. and all you non subbers either start paying, or leave. it wont be about whether or not you want to pay (for crates), you wont be given a choice but to pay (to play)
Works out well for those of us that prefer that model.3 -
pod88kk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes absolutely, if the European Court of Law passes a directive that prohibits the sale of RNG crates then every member of the EU will have to adhere to it & make it part of their laws unless it's in direct violation with the Constitution of that country.
It's a similar reason why certain countries cannot part take in the the 10 million stories sweepstakes, certain country's laws don't allow those types of competitions.
I think that Zos will need to do a lot of research into their winners. Definitely more research than they did with the Morrowwind Beta invites as quite a few people who play on console received invites & got in trouble for asking about why they received invites/being forced into a NDA by simply opening an email.Edited by pod88kk on November 24, 2017 1:03AM1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Or, I do what I want with my money when I want too. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I do not take part in things every single day that cost money. Some people do. If random fluff items out of a digital crate is something you want to put some money down on, then have at it. Nothing in them gives you an advantage in the game. Loot boxes aren't ideal, but if they must be there, ESO does them fairly classy. Crown gems, nothing p2w in them, weekend mini-events that nets you free ones, etc.
This, kinda, starts to fall apart when you're literally marketing a game towards children. Specifically games like BF2, which, I mean, come on, it's ****ing Star Wars.
It's well enough to say, "we're all consenting adults," but that's not universal in the market.
I'm talking about ESO itself. ESO is a rated M for mature MMORPG. Nothing about what I said 'falls apart'. I'm a grown man, and you absolutely get zero say in what I spend my hard earned money on. These sweeping generalizations aren't protecting anybody.
ESo is rated 16 in Germany, and the M rating is 17. Still minors. If you want to use the rating as an excuse, they would need to up the rating to Ao. Which would DECIMATE their sales.4 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Or, I do what I want with my money when I want too. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I do not take part in things every single day that cost money. Some people do. If random fluff items out of a digital crate is something you want to put some money down on, then have at it. Nothing in them gives you an advantage in the game. Loot boxes aren't ideal, but if they must be there, ESO does them fairly classy. Crown gems, nothing p2w in them, weekend mini-events that nets you free ones, etc.
This, kinda, starts to fall apart when you're literally marketing a game towards children. Specifically games like BF2, which, I mean, come on, it's ****ing Star Wars.
It's well enough to say, "we're all consenting adults," but that's not universal in the market.
I'm talking about ESO itself.
To be fair, you were talking about personal responsibility.
I mean, as these things go, yeah, I can kinda agree, ESO's is on the easier end of things. At the same time, this entire business model is kinda scummy.
Pretty sure my post is clear. This is an ESO forum. The Crown Crates are optional purchases. It is up to you, the consumer, whether you partake. Hence, personal responsibility. Word gymnastics don't change anything. I don't hate nor love Crown Crates, but if I choose to buy some then I CHOOSE to buy some. Not you, not jimmy down the street. Me. A balance needs to be found, not sweeping generalizations. Always, always look inward first.
What balance ? Complete freedom to corporations to practice extremely shady business models? Yeah, no , I will take a bit of regulation over trusting corporations.4 -
Davor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wonder whatever happened to personal responsibility? I talk, of course, about all those stating that these kinds of things prey on the vulnerable who are susceptible to addiction etcetera.
Why must we nanny people so, rather than having them take personal responsibility for their actions? If I spent all my rent money on crown crates then that would be my fault. Not the fault of ZOS. But I never would, personally. I was taught the value of money.
You just said it yourself. People who are susceptible to addiction. This is preying on people who can't stop themselves even if they know better. As I said before, Zenimax is not doing their due diligence and making sure nobody under the age of 18+, or 19+ or even 21+ depending on where you live are buying these. So is it ok to sell things to minors and let them become addicted?
Also this is gambling. Zenimax and other companies are skirting the law because of "name". Maybe it's not "gambling" by legal definition but it is preying on people who know better and can't stop themselves.
People who do drugs, know better and can't help themselves. It's and addiction. This is just a different type of addiction.Not my quote but I love this saying
"I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alexandrious wrote: »Noooooooo you all gotta buy the loot crates, to fund Fallout Online!
All The Kek
Pfft, like we'll ever see Fallout online.1 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s a form of gambling as such should receive the same regulations as current gambeling.
If for not other reason then to protect those who are to young or less able to control themselves.
At the least they should have to post legitimate odds same as any other game if chance.1 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »I'm sure most of you heard about the loot crate p2w outrage with star wars battlefront II. EA has now remove all real money transaction and is working on adjusting the loot crate system.
The outrage was so big that governments like Belgium and Hawaii now are investigating the gambling part about loot crates and is considering laws against it. It seems like a matter of time before other governments follow.
I'm glad this is happening since all games now were starting to use this system including ESO because it takes advantage of people's gambling addictions. It doesnt have to be p2w to be gambling also so even if it is cosmetic like ESO it will still be affected by gambling laws.
What do you guys think about this issue? do you think this will affect ESO?
gambling is dishonest."The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.0 -
ConeOfSilence✭✭✭✭I have been playing BF 2 over the past 2 weeks and as soon as I saw the loot crates I immediately thought they got this idea from ESO.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ConeOfSilence wrote: »I have been playing BF 2 over the past 2 weeks and as soon as I saw the loot crates I immediately thought they got this idea from ESO.
Im not sure what game started it, but SWTOR started it back in 2012, so it was just a matter of time before it got out of control with the greed.0 -
SirAxen✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Or, I do what I want with my money when I want too. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I do not take part in things every single day that cost money. Some people do. If random fluff items out of a digital crate is something you want to put some money down on, then have at it. Nothing in them gives you an advantage in the game. Loot boxes aren't ideal, but if they must be there, ESO does them fairly classy. Crown gems, nothing p2w in them, weekend mini-events that nets you free ones, etc.
This, kinda, starts to fall apart when you're literally marketing a game towards children. Specifically games like BF2, which, I mean, come on, it's ****ing Star Wars.
It's well enough to say, "we're all consenting adults," but that's not universal in the market.
I'm talking about ESO itself.
To be fair, you were talking about personal responsibility.
I mean, as these things go, yeah, I can kinda agree, ESO's is on the easier end of things. At the same time, this entire business model is kinda scummy.
Pretty sure my post is clear. This is an ESO forum. The Crown Crates are optional purchases. It is up to you, the consumer, whether you partake. Hence, personal responsibility. Word gymnastics don't change anything. I don't hate nor love Crown Crates, but if I choose to buy some then I CHOOSE to buy some. Not you, not jimmy down the street. Me. A balance needs to be found, not sweeping generalizations. Always, always look inward first.
What balance ? Complete freedom to corporations to practice extremely shady business models? Yeah, no , I will take a bit of regulation over trusting corporations.
If you're going to quote me twice, at least understand what you're quoting first. Cherry picking doesn't add anything to the discussion. Disagree that I'm allowed to spend my money how I want, ALL you want, but I can assure you that your thoughts have zero to do with my wallet. Quit assuming, as 'allowing corporate greed' to run rampant isn't even close to anywhere in anything I posted. Do not bother responding to me again please, as I have no interest in giving my take on 'balance' means in this to you. Don't put words in peoples mouth, it's rude.Edited by SirAxen on November 24, 2017 3:14AM0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Or, I do what I want with my money when I want too. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I do not take part in things every single day that cost money. Some people do. If random fluff items out of a digital crate is something you want to put some money down on, then have at it. Nothing in them gives you an advantage in the game. Loot boxes aren't ideal, but if they must be there, ESO does them fairly classy. Crown gems, nothing p2w in them, weekend mini-events that nets you free ones, etc.
This, kinda, starts to fall apart when you're literally marketing a game towards children. Specifically games like BF2, which, I mean, come on, it's ****ing Star Wars.
It's well enough to say, "we're all consenting adults," but that's not universal in the market.
I'm talking about ESO itself.
To be fair, you were talking about personal responsibility.
I mean, as these things go, yeah, I can kinda agree, ESO's is on the easier end of things. At the same time, this entire business model is kinda scummy.
Pretty sure my post is clear. This is an ESO forum. The Crown Crates are optional purchases. It is up to you, the consumer, whether you partake. Hence, personal responsibility. Word gymnastics don't change anything. I don't hate nor love Crown Crates, but if I choose to buy some then I CHOOSE to buy some. Not you, not jimmy down the street. Me. A balance needs to be found, not sweeping generalizations. Always, always look inward first.
What balance ? Complete freedom to corporations to practice extremely shady business models? Yeah, no , I will take a bit of regulation over trusting corporations.
If you're going to quote me twice, at least understand what you're quoting first. Cherry picking doesn't add anything to the discussion. Disagree that I'm allowed to spend my money how I want, ALL you want, but I can assure you that your thoughts have zero to do with my wallet. Quit assuming, as 'allowing corporate greed' to run rampant isn't even close to anywhere in anything I posted. Do not bother responding to me again please, as I have no interest in giving my take on 'balance' means in this to you. Don't put words in peoples mouth, it's rude.
The question marks were there for a reason. Seriously, what balance are you talking about?1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ConeOfSilence wrote: »I have been playing BF 2 over the past 2 weeks and as soon as I saw the loot crates I immediately thought they got this idea from ESO.
Im not sure what game started it, but SWTOR started it back in 2012, so it was just a matter of time before it got out of control with the greed.
Lucky Bags in Asian MMOs, circa 2006 or 2007. Rose to prominence in the American Market as companies like Perfect World started picking up failing American MMOs, and converting them over.
The concept of a random grab bag goes back further, obviously, as does the abstract idea of a loot box, but selling random items like this started in Asian grind MMOs.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cherry picking doesn't add anything to the discussion.
Okay.Disagree that I'm allowed to spend my money how I want, ALL you want, but I can assure you that your thoughts have zero to do with my wallet.
Okay, yeah, I disagree. There area already a wide range of things you cannot legally spend your money on.
Now, I know...
At the same time, western civilization does look, rather harshly, on the idea of marketing gambling to minors. Like it or not, ESO does have under age players. As in, legitimately, without ignoring the ESRB or PEGI ratings.
Because of the potential for abuse, gambling is severely restricted. You have to jump through a lot of hoops if you want to run a lottery, and it's outright illegal in many places.
You want to say that you can handle it, and that the prospect of buying a random goodie bag is worthwhile for you... okay, cool, fine, good for you.
Problem is, this is a real issue many players face. It's not because they're stupid. It's not because they're weak willed. It's because they are addicted.
The Crown Crates may not be an issue for you, but for them it is immediately harmful.
Beyond that, quite frankly, they're a ripoff. I mean, yeah, if you want to spend your money on them, feel free. But, you're looking at something in the range of spending $200 for a mount. (It might actually be closer to 100 or 150, I don't remember, but you should get the idea.) Seriously? I mean, those are the odds you're playing on. You're spending a lot of money for the prospect of maybe getting something you want.
This is in contrast to a game where the most expensive, comparable items for direct purchase, run around 40. If you wanted the Dro'Mathra mount, you were getting a better deal buying it for $40 directly, than throwing money at crates and hoping for the best, when it came around.
I understand that lucky bags are a lot of money to leave on the table. I understand why devs, even ones like ZOS, find they cannot say no to that kind of money. (In this case, blame goes more to the publisher than the developers.) In many cases (though I don't know if this is the case with ZOS) developers actively dislike putting this kind of stuff into their games.
So, with all of that in mind, I get where you want to spend your money. That part's fine. But, in the process you're actually arguing against your own best interest. You're saying, "no, I want to play the dice, instead of being able to buy the stuff I want in the first place."
I'm in favor of you spending your money how you like, but I'd rather you be able to actually do so, and not have to roll the dice, and end up with another cosmetic item that isn't usable by your race (yes, this has happened to me, multiple times), or that you didn't want.
Yes, sometimes you can get something you didn't expect, and didn't particularly want, and find you love it anyway. This has happened to me, with the Chub Loon pet. But, in general, it's better for you, and better for me, if we can pick and choose what we spend money on, rather than spending to roll the dice.4 -
monktoasty✭✭✭✭✭Game prices can't go higher or gaming will I mode. It's already well on its way with microtransactions..eventually players will get sick of it whether there is a law of not.
M8crotransactions are not about recouping costs..it's about gett8ng renewable free money fr9m the same game purchase. Nothing more nothing less. The least they can do to is what they will do..very few big game companies give 2 crabs about the game itself...gaming is already dead as very few are making good games.
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Caine_CarverSoul ShrivenI do not have a problem with loot crates overall and the ESO crown crates are really generous compared to many games. But to those that hate them realize they are a 'child' of the free play game model...a needed facet to make them work for the long run. Go back to subscription games and loot crates or pay to win models are not needed. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
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RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭Heads up, France and Australia are getting into the loot box investigation issue.
http://www.pcgamer.com/australian-gambling-analyst-says-loot-boxes-constitute-gambling-by-legal-definition/
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-wars-battlefront-2-french-senator-writes-lett/1100-6455112/Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!5 -
SFDB✭✭✭✭✭
✭All the other gaming companies are looking at EA right now just like in a movie where, after everyone agrees not to spend any money right away after a huge score, one idiot goes out the next day and buys a yacht.2 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.2 -
Lord_Etrigan✭✭✭✭As you so rightly pointed out, this affords no protection to minors exposed to in-game purchases, and exactly what the publisher wants.
oh come on. if i recall the correct game name, farmville was far worse for peoples bills than this game ever was. i know, because i was always dealing with complaints from customers whose kids racked up bills buying stuff in it without their parents knowledge. there was no outrage about that game and kids and money
so if they increased the drop rates in crates, most people would be happy?
#keepcrates
Since you want gambling crates so bad, here is an idea.
Why don’t they keep the gambling crate like it is now with the current drop rate and put all the content they want behind those crates, but also provide the exact content for direct purchase (not gems). That way you and others like yourself can continue to support the gambling crates whilst the rest of us purchase what we actually want.
#problemsolved.
PS4 EU
Lord Etrigan (Former Emperor): PVE High Elf Sorcerer
Nyssa al Ghul: PVP Nightblade Wood Elf (Ganker)
Lady-Death : PVP High Elf Sorcerer (8 x Campaigns Former Empress and Grand Warlord) Retired:(
Achmed-Silence I keel you: PVP Dark Elf Nightblade (Suicide Bomber)
I'm with stupid: PVP Argonian Magic Temp (Group support and healer).
Guild:
The Order of Stolas (Founder and Guild Master)
Faction: Aldmeri Dominion
Her Royal Highness Queen Ayrenn Arana wants You for Dominion.
LONG LIVE THE QUEEN!!2 -
Motherball✭✭✭✭It will change it but not for the better, in my opinion. I believe it will continue to get worse as companies find new ways to psychologically manipulate people and legal loopholes to get away with it. Players have shown their hand and companies will be more careful and deceptive from now on.Edited by Motherball on November 24, 2017 6:50AM1 -
umagon✭✭✭✭✭I hope it does. I want video games to return back to when it was about making a game with great lore, environments, unique game play mechanics, and actual difficulty. This era of “games of chance” and psychological conditioning can die in a fire.
and without their source of income from crates, free to play dies. and all you non subbers either start paying, or leave. it wont be about whether or not you want to pay (for crates), you wont be given a choice but to pay (to play)
Part of the reason I dropped the subscription after imperial city came out was due to it killing the cyrodiil population and not wanting to deal with pve npcs in pvp areas. The only reason I came back to the game is because it was a free time space filler in-between games and I have retired from purchasing new mmos. ESO was the last mmo that I will ever buy. And part of that has to due to game of chance and conditioning mechanisms they all use.
If that amount of effort was put into making the game better as in resolving bugs, hiring someone who can actually build combat system well, etc; then I would have no problem subscribing to the game. The problem for me the is the game not worth subscribing to.
When I do login it’s same crap every time, patch after patch cyrodiil’s latency never improves, frames per second still degrade, charge skills are still bugged, loading screens are still buggy, doors only work when they feel like it, siege weapons’ targeting bugs, etc. And you want me to pay for that?
I purchased orsinium only because it was required to get v160 materials at the time. And I haven’t purchased any other dlc, nor will I until the bugs get resolved, performance increased and the item acquisition times get lowered to something more tolerable.
Also, I prefer direct purchasing of dlc, cosmetic items, and quality of life items; the key thing they have to make something I want. And crown crates are not something I want.
1 -
Lord_Etrigan✭✭✭✭Mmmmm this thing of saying ESO is FREE TO PLAY is not exactly the truth if you think about it.
ESO is the only MMO I play.
So I still have to pay for PS Plus or NO ESO and then there’s the crafting bag, so yeah for me ESO is far from FREE TO PLAY.
PS4 EU
Lord Etrigan (Former Emperor): PVE High Elf Sorcerer
Nyssa al Ghul: PVP Nightblade Wood Elf (Ganker)
Lady-Death : PVP High Elf Sorcerer (8 x Campaigns Former Empress and Grand Warlord) Retired:(
Achmed-Silence I keel you: PVP Dark Elf Nightblade (Suicide Bomber)
I'm with stupid: PVP Argonian Magic Temp (Group support and healer).
Guild:
The Order of Stolas (Founder and Guild Master)
Faction: Aldmeri Dominion
Her Royal Highness Queen Ayrenn Arana wants You for Dominion.
LONG LIVE THE QUEEN!!2
