Is there a difference between a duel and open world build?

zParallaxz · November 2017

I ask this question since a lot people think their is. The answer is that there isn’t, Ik reality you just restrict your play style such as immovs and L.O.S
Your thoughts?

Trinotops · November 2017

It depends on the build really. There are many builds that would preform fine in both duels and open world without any changes. But there are exceptions like in the case of dizzying swing builds and pet sorcs where they preform well in one scenario but lack in the other.

Taleof2Cities · November 2017

Duels are essentially PvP one versus one, right?

In most cases (not all cases), you really don’t want to PvP another player in PvE gear.

JackWest92 · November 2017

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Duels are essentially PvP one versus one, right?

In most cases (not all cases), you really don’t want to PvP another player in PvE gear.

I think by 'open world' he means 'cyrodiil'

Drummerx04 · November 2017

The thing about duels is that you can potentially change your build to be more effective against certain players, and you can sacrifice some skills that are useful in open world in favor of higher damage (such as another dot) or an extra defense.

MagDK is probably a good example. They are terrifying in duels with the permablock, skoria, leap, and 3-4 dots ticking away constantly. Not to mention their healing through the fire claw and whatnot can be pretty strong. But DK has pretty crap mobility and so can get stuck in situations without an escape option, which makes them unpopular for open world.

Having said that, I 100% believe that dueling is a good way to get better at PvP. To succeed at dueling is entirely dependent upon your viable build and successful execution, and it's a great way to get a feel for how to fight different builds.

Publius_Scipio · November 2017

As a Stam NB I can say there definitely is a difference between a build that works in open world Cyrodiil versus a duel. In a duel you get crushed. Unless you are talking about some meta build with some op element somewhere that just works against most everyone.

getemshauna · November 2017

You want one example? I wouldn't go into cyrodil without piercing mark, but in duel I doesn't need it completly. Same about destro ult - needed in cyrodil, but in duel I prefer soul harvest.

Biro123 · November 2017

I don't really do duelling, but I suspect there's no need for much mobility in a duelling build - which can free up slots for other stuff.

MakoFore · November 2017

sure there is, open world for example there is more need for mobility, gap closing, hittting a target from range, fighting in keeps , multi target skills- etc, skills useful in open world that are useless in duels like repentence, etc.
in a duel you need a bit more direct damage resistnace, u dont need a gap closer, sword and shield is the go for stam whereas 2hand and bow is what i use in open world, i can only speak for my own style- but my duel style is very differnt from open world , in all classes. in duels i build to hunker down, control my opponent, outlast, alot of recovery and healing, in open world i build for mobility, hit and move, and to help my group

Sunburnt_Penguin · November 2017

It depends on my class.

On my StamWarden, I use 2h in open-world because it has the best burst potential so I can kill and move on quickly and I have a viable CC as I’m fighting people that either don’t realise they need to block a dizzy or just can’t react in time as there’s so much going on. In a duel, I use 1h&S for reverb as a CC instead of dizzy because my opponent will be higher skilled and it’s easier for him/her to be more aware of when a dizzy is coming to block it.

On my MagDK and MagTemps, I use Mist Form in open-world but in a duel this is largely redundant so I swap this out.

Then, I also have a different gear setups on both because my open-world ones use sets which scale with being outnumbered. Taking these in to a duel typically means that I have less stats than the flat stat sets.

Karmanorway · November 2017

zParallaxz wrote: »

I ask this question since a lot people think their is. The answer is that there isn’t, Ik reality you just restrict your play style such as immovs and L.O.S
Your thoughts?

Duels - higher dmg, less sustain
Cyrodiil/BGs - more sustain, less dmg

WillhelmBlack · November 2017

Huge unless Sorc, Magplar or Warden.

AcadianPaladin · November 2017

From my perspective, there is a huge diff. Might as well be a diff game as far as I'm concerned. The list begins with the impenetrable trait and goes on through summoned pets, ground based DoTs....

zParallaxz · November 2017

Every time I beat someone they said your build wouldnt work in open world or your prob running a duel build. Only because my build is highly different from magdk builds since it is destro resto, people think it won’t work in open world. But people don’t realize if you catch the 10k whip in a duel chances are I see u in open world ur catching another 10k whip.

Ihatenightblades · November 2017

zParallaxz wrote: »

I ask this question since a lot people think their is. The answer is that there isn’t, Ik reality you just restrict your play style such as immovs and L.O.S
Your thoughts?

Biggest difference is being able to sustain. A dueling build you can go full cheese and get away with sustain since you only have to worry about one person so you can get in those heavy attacks for resource return. Especially in heavy armor.

For example a 1h and shield build with fassala and poison serpent set on a stam character with selenes can dish out crazy damage and crazy debuffs. With fassala and reverb you can get up to 70% heal debuff... and in a duel you will crush the enemy no before you run out of stam and when you do you can heavy attack get stam back.

If you are solo and in open world then this kind of build is pure trash and wont get you any kills unless you are lucky.

Open world fights last longer so you wanna be build more for long fights but at the same time have some good damage.

For example a good open world build would be like 5 bone pirate 5 ravaging 2 engine guarding or any monster set you like. For me I always have atleast one sustain set on my pvp guys.

Bone pirate desert rose Lich Etc.

GrigorijMalahevich · November 2017

I duel only in Cyrodiil open world setup. Everyone who changes their gear for duels - is a noob.

P.S. #nerfsorc

zParallaxz · November 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

I ask this question since a lot people think their is. The answer is that there isn’t, Ik reality you just restrict your play style such as immovs and L.O.S
Your thoughts?

Biggest difference is being able to sustain. A dueling build you can go full cheese and get away with sustain since you only have to worry about one person so you can get in those heavy attacks for resource return. Especially in heavy armor.

For example a 1h and shield build with fassala and poison serpent set on a stam character with selenes can dish out crazy damage and crazy debuffs. With fassala and reverb you can get up to 70% heal debuff... and in a duel you will crush the enemy no before you run out of stam and when you do you can heavy attack get stam back.

If you are solo and in open world then this kind of build is pure trash and wont get you any kills unless you are lucky.

Open world fights last longer so you wanna be build more for long fights but at the same time have some good damage.

For example a good open world build would be like 5 bone pirate 5 ravaging 2 engine guarding or any monster set you like. For me I always have atleast one sustain set on my pvp guys.

Bone pirate desert rose Lich Etc.

Thank you for explaining it, I agree with what you said. However on a side note fasallas gives major defile as well reverb so they don’t stack....

KingMagaw · November 2017

Of course there is a difference.

Forward momentum in pen world and shield Ultimate is life to escape being zerged down. In duels i would swap them out for Rally and an offensive Ult.

I use Immovable/Speed/Stam pots i believe for Open world. No need for them in duels i would probably use Weapon power pots/combination of a more offense.

mb10 · November 2017

Of course!
The situations in a duel are very different to open world. I've never understood the "let's duel to see who's better" argument.
You might win that 1v1 duel but you might get thrown around in every other scenario in PVP because your build is designed for 1 target or even your play style

Betsararie · November 2017

There are differences there are ways you can fine tune your build to better take on players 1v1, such as slotting an extra cc or changing an ulti around. There are even gear changes that can be made. Absolutely, there are ways to fine tune builds to duels, and the people that say otherwise are merely misinformed.

mb10 wrote: »

Of course!
The situations in a duel are very different to open world. I've never understood the "let's duel to see who's better" argument.
You might win that 1v1 duel but you might get thrown around in every other scenario in PVP because your build is designed for 1 target or even your play style

What duels demonstrates is that one player can beat the other in dueling. It is a test of your ability to 1v1. Obviously it doesn't carry over to large scale PvP.

MLGProPlayer · November 2017

Of course there is. You need 5-1-1 light/medium armour in divines for overland. You need impenetrable for PvP (heavy armour preferred). Having impenetrable gear makes you 10x more difficult to kill.

Lexxypwns · November 2017

For open world you need to account for mobility and handling outnumbered situations. A common situation you’ll see is mist form, it’s necessary open world on most magika specs but doesn’t get a bar slot for dueling. On mageblade there’s sap vs degen, one clearly has superior open world utility whereas the other is a duel choice.

You specifically get questioned because you shield stack on mDK and it is generally accepted that shield stacking without mobility is inadequate defense when outnumbered and fighting non-potatoes. I’m not saying your build doesn’t work, but that is the specific reason I think you hear it

Mayrael · November 2017

There is difference not only in builds but also with the way you play. Duels are more like sport competition. You have some rules, restricted area, you fight always 1v1 and dont have to always be ready to escape or at least to get attacked from stealth.
In Cyro what is not prohibited (by game rules) is allowed. You may use sieges, to kill your oponents, you use LoS a lot, you setup traps and make false moves, most of the time you will fight XvX. What is meta for duels wont be as good for group play - in good groups you have higly specialisated toons, mostly DDs and Healers, but tanks are also useful especialy when combined with bombers. There is so much differences that it would take some serious time to count them all.

TLDR: Duels are like vMA - you can count only on your self. Cyro is more like trials/vetDungs - you need to synergize well with your group.

lynog85 · November 2017

zParallaxz wrote: »

I ask this question since a lot people think their is. The answer is that there isn’t, Ik reality you just restrict your play style such as immovs and L.O.S
Your thoughts?

Sometimes there is but usually a duelling build will work open world.

Waffennacht · November 2017

OP, you know the answer already, no one with your skill doesn't know!

Of course!

I can't LoS, don't use poisons/Immovable, and can't flee. A build that does those will be horrible in duels yet perform well in BGs.

Surprised you haven't shared the story of stomping me yet lol!

Waffennacht · November 2017

@zParallaxz shows up literally after I say I'm going to bed (like those are the words to make him appear) invites me to a duel.

He says, "I'm gonna show you something you haven't seen before"
I think to myself, "yeah... Right"
He proceeds to show me something I haven't seen before

0_0