Should ZoS Calm Down With DLC and Focus On In Game Bugs?

HypnoticMarmot · November 2017

Do you Guys/Gals think ZoS should take a break from forcing out new content to solely focus on in game bugs?

To me it just seems like they are rushing out content way too fast. I understand they promised DLC every quarter, but at the risk of breaking the game just seems like a huge gamble.

Thoughts?

Jimmy · November 2017

Complaining about too much new content.... lol

/facepalm

P.S. I hardly ever encounter bugs in my play. Given the size and complexity of this game ZOS is doing pretty damn good.

DieAlteHexe · November 2017

I think they've got the staff and departments to do both.

sudaki_eso · November 2017

Dominion_Mirages · November 2017

Absolutely. I wouldn’ blame them at all if they make such announcement. Game conditions as they are now are pathetic both bug-wise and also in terms of optimization (CPU/GPU loads, network infrastructure and so on).

Shardan4968 · November 2017

Sure thing. I would suggest new DLC PvP based, but I prefer to actually enjoy IC first. DLCs won't make this game better, we need fixes and changes, not forced new paid DLC every two months.

ArchMikem · November 2017

I don't see a bug issue great enough to impede content development. They'll fix the load screen issue and disregarding that the game is perfectly playable.

RANKK7 · November 2017

Couldn't agree more.

Dread_Viking · November 2017

yes

Dominion_Mirages · November 2017

Jimmy wrote: »

Complaining about too much new content.... lol

/facepalm

P.S. I hardly ever encounter bugs in my play. Given the size and complexity of this game ZOS is doing pretty damn good.

AdamBourke · November 2017

No. Not at all.

What good would it be having quest writers and artists fixing bugs? OK, so there are a few quest and art bugs - but the majority of bugs come from the games engine - which will be from an entirely different team.

I don't know about AAA games - because I've only worked in small games, but there are generally more artists than developers in my experience.

If anything - I think we should have more DLC - in the form of additional delves and quests for existing zones.

Turelus · November 2017

Right now we get both.

Not everyone working on new content is someone who can fix bugs, so just because they slow new content production doesn't mean we'll see more fixes.

grannas211 · November 2017

I'd rather they bring in more people who actually care about pvp.

Dominion_Mirages · November 2017

AdamBourke wrote: »

No. Not at all.

What good would it be having quest writers and artists fixing bugs? OK, so there are a few quest and art bugs - but the majority of bugs come from the games engine - which will be from an entirely different team.

I don't know about AAA games - because I've only worked in small games, but there are generally more artists than developers in my experience.

Why on Earth artists/writers have to do anything about development in the first place?... Who offered that?

Noone around here discusses human resources management within ZOS. Moreover, ZOS have enough money to keep at least equal number of employees in both teams, believe me. What we are talking about is a probability to stop a insatiable greed-based DLC development rush in favor of fixing bazillion bugs/exploits/glitches/imbalances in-game. It's a matter of decent work attitude at least and respect to user base and not a management/infrastructure issue.

If anything - I think we should have more DLC - in the form of additional delves and quests for existing zones.

So your proposal is to multiply existing issues in-game by developing new DLCs? Clairvoyant offer in all its brilliance!

AzraelKrieg · November 2017

They should stop doing both.

EvilCroc · November 2017

No. They should not.

Only option I would like to see is an "Old content overhaul" DLC or something.
Rework of some old models/textures. Some references in older quests with new content. (Naryu Virian knows you in Deshaan after Vvardfenfell and other such things).
Fixing some old bugs comes here too, why not.

AdamBourke · November 2017

Dominion_Mirages wrote: »

Why on Earth artists/writers have to do anything about development in the first place?... Who offered that?

I am saying that the majority of work on new DLCs will be by the artists - who will work for months on the new zones. Then assuming that quests work in a similar way to the offline TES games, Writers/Scripters will work on populating the zone with mostly existing features. This will take a lot of time as well, if you incorporate voice acting. In an ESO Live video, one of the developers

Relatively speaking, the most work in new zones is done by artists.

Video game development isn't just writing code. I was surprised, when I worked on my first game (As a programmer), to find out that actually the art takes up far more time. And that was on a 2D game, I imagine 3D takes even more art time.

Major systems like the housing system (and hopefully spellcrafting!) are the exception to this - which will have largely been the programming teams - but even then, I suspect that they have different teams for network issues, combat mechanics and in-game systems.

Edit: Meant to respond to this as well:

EvilCroc wrote: »

Only option I would like to see is an "Old content overhaul" DLC or something.
Rework of some old models/textures. Some references in older quests with new content. (Naryu Virian knows you in Deshaan after Vvardfenfell and other such things).
Fixing some old bugs comes here too, why not.

I'd be fine with this - but I don't think it should be done yet - maybe in 2020 or something after a few more years have passed. Don't want them overhauling the game every year!

Morbash · November 2017

No, I'd rather see some new and improved PvP content.

Apache_Kid · November 2017

Yes. They need to fix their current content before they release any more. All i see is the argument of "well but the artists..."

Have them work on the fact that almost every-time I enter a DLC area city such as Orsinium, Abbah's Landing, or Vivec the textures on all the buildings look right out of TES III: Morrowind Circa 2002.

pod88kk · November 2017

Yes, most definitely

badmojo · November 2017

Yeah, lets get artists, voice actors, sound engineers, world builders and quest makers to work on the code...that wont create even more bugs.

RebornV3x · November 2017

If I was ZOS I would dedicate all the resources " all hands on deck" and all departments to fixing bugs and stabilizing the game.
Maybe adding small quality of life improvements to guild stores, guild banks and housing ie adding storage etc instead of a DLC next quarter

Then near the end of Summer 2018 release a chapter ie Winterhold (this might bring back all the Skyrim fan boys that gave up on this game now that the game is more playable and stable) also since Winterhold is mostly destroyed in Skyrim theres not much the devs have to do to make it look like it did in Skyrim so it would give the dev team plenty of creative room to breathe while cashing in on that Skyrim nostalgia and add spellcrafting to the game since the College of Winterhold and stuff.

Akrasjel · November 2017

Both... like thay can't aford it.

INHUMANENATION · November 2017

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Yes. They need to fix their current content before they release any more. All i see is the argument of "well but the artists..."

Have them work on the fact that almost every-time I enter a DLC area city such as Orsinium, Abbah's Landing, or Vivec the textures on all the buildings look right out of TES III: Morrowind Circa 2002.

The point people are making is that the staff on hand to develop new content is entirely separate from the staff working on the systems bugs. The rendering of buildings is a performance issue with the machine you play on. Also Morrowind 2002 was beautiful idc what ppl say :P

Even if everyone was equally qualified to work on the system (which they are not), the problem would still by much more dynamic than the OP suggests. New development drives sales. No one would maintain their ESO+ if the OP's suggestions was implemented. Which would then remove funds out of the budget that could go to paying employees to fix issues. As this is a game to us, this is a business to ESO and they are not in this business to not make money. No more than ESO+ members are paying to not have new content.
I've been a member since 2015 and buy crown crates and crowns. Not because I really even need anything out of the crates or care about costumes all that much. I do it because a part of that money goes to the game's sustainability and because I can afford to. Take away development and I would still buy crowns and crates but even I would have a hard time justifying ESO+ and believe me when I say ESO+ ensures this game stays up.

Ty for the image of voice actors sitting down in the lab and thowing up their hands when presented with a technical issue. Tis appreciated greatly.

Anrose · November 2017

Jimmy wrote: »

Complaining about too much new content.... lol

/facepalm

P.S. I hardly ever encounter bugs in my play. Given the size and complexity of this game ZOS is doing pretty damn good.

Found the PvE quester who has never set foot in a dungeon, trial, or PvP.

Dominion_Mirages · November 2017

AdamBourke wrote: »

Dominion_Mirages wrote: »

Why on Earth artists/writers have to do anything about development in the first place?... Who offered that?

I am saying that the majority of work on new DLCs will be by the artists - who will work for months on the new zones. Then assuming that quests work in a similar way to the offline TES games, Writers/Scripters will work on populating the zone with mostly existing features. This will take a lot of time as well, if you incorporate voice acting. In an ESO Live video, one of the developers

Relatively speaking, the most work in new zones is done by artists.

With all due respect, I don't see any logical connection between OP's question and your continuous effort to persuade us of trivial truth pretty much everyone is aware of.

Again, we are not talking here about duties of different teams within ZOS. We are talking about priorities of work tasks and minimal strategic planning from game director/producers/whoever responsible.

Exactly, the majority of work hours on NEW DLC's spent by artists. Meanwhile, the development team will have relatively less work hours on specific tasks. Not to mention that company has all the ability and resources in the world to hire more programmers and make a second team. Or just plain freelance it.

But even this is not important, the important thing is that work process isn't only measured by $$$/hour spent/person but first and foremost by priority of tasks planned.

The current state of priorities is very much like:

Top-priority (0): New crown crates/store cosmetics/RL money oriented additions.

Priority A (1): New content, be it DLC or "chapter" (which is essentially the same DLC but in different marketing pack).

Priority B (2): Event oriented activity (festivals/weekends etc. which in turn return us to top-priority tasks, because they are interconnected).

Priority C (3): Polishing of existing art component of the game (feet movement, mount speed animations etc.).

Priority D (4): PvE fixes.

Priority E (5): PvP fixes.

Priority F (6): IC as a whole (it's essentially the subclass of previous priority).

Priority G (7): Banhammer.

I assume we both agree that this list needs serious review, correction, editing and eventually implementation.

While any new content is of course exciting current flaws of the game, some even beta-dated, just must be fixed and like it or not ZOS will be forced to fix them sooner or later. The whole point of discussion here is "Are we agree the fixes should happen sooner, even at cost of one-two DLCs or we aren't?"

And finally, they don't need to be fixed in 2020's when the engine will become archaic and game industry will step much forward technology-wise. We need it to be done now, within existing technological limits and tendencies.

Above all, as I said, it's a matter of attitude and respect to existing player base.

Dr.NRG · November 2017

HypnoticMarmot wrote: »

Do you Guys/Gals think ZoS should take a break from forcing out new content to solely focus on in game bugs?

To me it just seems like they are rushing out content way too fast. I understand they promised DLC every quarter, but at the risk of breaking the game just seems like a huge gamble.

Thoughts?

Not sure how long you been playing this game but we’ve been asking zos to do that since more than 3 years now;) Long story short; It aint gonna happen, they are on a release schedule and they wont go of it.

Apache_Kid · November 2017

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Yes. They need to fix their current content before they release any more. All i see is the argument of "well but the artists..."

Have them work on the fact that almost every-time I enter a DLC area city such as Orsinium, Abbah's Landing, or Vivec the textures on all the buildings look right out of TES III: Morrowind Circa 2002.

The point people are making is that the staff on hand to develop new content is entirely separate from the staff working on the systems bugs. The rendering of buildings is a performance issue with the machine you play on. Also Morrowind 2002 was beautiful idc what ppl say :P

Even if everyone was equally qualified to work on the system (which they are not), the problem would still by much more dynamic than the OP suggests. New development drives sales. No one would maintain their ESO+ if the OP's suggestions was implemented. Which would then remove funds out of the budget that could go to paying employees to fix issues. As this is a game to us, this is a business to ESO and they are not in this business to not make money. No more than ESO+ members are paying to not have new content.
I've been a member since 2015 and buy crown crates and crowns. Not because I really even need anything out of the crates or care about costumes all that much. I do it because a part of that money goes to the game's sustainability and because I can afford to. Take away development and I would still buy crowns and crates but even I would have a hard time justifying ESO+ and believe me when I say ESO+ ensures this game stays up.

Ty for the image of voice actors sitting down in the lab and thowing up their hands when presented with a technical issue. Tis appreciated greatly.

I play on an Xbox Scorpio One X and the original Xbox One. If this is an issue with my machine than maybe this game shouldn't be offered on Xbox if it cant handle the game.

I would also maintain my ESO+ in the exact situation you described. I have it for the craft bag. That's it. Everything else is just extra.

Buffler · November 2017

Take the servers off line for a few weeks and fix all the bugs. Make the sets that are not working correctly actually work, the broken skills, lag, performance, dungeon finder, damage scaling of templars skills, bugged dungeon bosses, bugged mounts, slow bug in cyrodiil, texturing bug.......need I go on?

Sanctum74 · November 2017

Yes, they should definately focus on performance and bug fixes for the next patch or two. I remember when they used to release a new dlc and there would be a big surge of new players and existing players spending more time in the game.

The last few dlc's the number of players keeps decreasing because of bugs, performance problems, and players having their characters and armour sets become obsolete.

If population numbers aren't an incentive for them to fix the game then by all means keep pushing the costumes and mounts, that will bring customers back, lol!

AdamBourke · November 2017

EvilCroc wrote: »

With all due respect, I don't see any logical connection between OP's question and your continuous effort to persuade us of trivial truth pretty much everyone is aware of.

Again, we are not talking here about duties of different teams within ZOS. We are talking about priorities of work tasks and minimal strategic planning from game director/producers/whoever responsible.

The point I am making, is that the people who do the DLCs are (mostly) people not qualified to do bug fixing, so stopping the DLCs won't massively increase the amount of bugs that will be fixed. A bit, yes. A lot, no.

If there is a problem with the plumbing, you don't ask the decorators to go and look at it.

EvilCroc wrote: »

Not to mention that company has all the ability and resources in the world to hire more programmers and make a second team. Or just plain freelance it.

Sure, it would be great if they did this - that's got nothing to do with stopping DLCs though

EvilCroc wrote: »

The current state of priorities is very much like:

Top-priority (0): New crown crates/store cosmetics/RL money oriented additions.

Priority A (1): New content, be it DLC or "chapter" (which is essentially the same DLC but in different marketing pack).

Priority B (2): Event oriented activity (festivals/weekends etc. which in turn return us to top-priority tasks, because they are interconnected).

Priority C (3): Polishing of existing art component of the game (feet movement, mount speed animations etc.).

Priority D (4): PvE fixes.

Priority E (5): PvP fixes.

Priority F (6): IC as a whole (it's essentially the subclass of previous priority).

Priority G (7): Banhammer.

I assume we both agree that this list needs serious review, correction, editing and eventually implementation.

You are acting like everyone team in the company have the same priorities. Again, the top four are mainly artists and quest makers.

Stopping those doesn't provide a whole bunch of newly freed up developers. It frees up a few developers that probably don't know that much about the area of code with the PvP probelms in anyway, because they spent the last year working on housing or something.

I am saying, we shouldn't stop DLC work, because there are probably barely any programmers working on them anyway, so how would it help?

EvilCroc wrote: »

And finally, they don't need to be fixed in 2020's when the engine will become archaic and game industry will step much forward technology-wise. We need it to be done now, within existing technological limits and tendencies.

I meant that an art overhaul shouldn't be done until at least then.

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Should ZoS Calm Down With DLC and Focus On In Game Bugs?

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