SirMewser wrote: »

The cutest thing happened to me the other day.

On my sorc tank (I don't use frost staff)...
I was all sad and lonely against a world boss in Hew's bane, trying to get Baharah's curse shield.
Boss health was at 15%, then suddenly running down the stairs is a DK with a sword and shield activating his spiked armour, rushing in to help me, awww!

Then all the sudden, he decides that it was necessary for him to taunt the boss off of me, when I was clearly doing fine, so I am like "um... okay!" but then...
He gets 1 shotted!!~

Little DK guy, if you are reading this, please know you put the biggest smile on my face the day you did that, thank you so much!
You know who you are!

As for the topic, I think it's adorable no less than an annoyance when people inadvertently taunt with frost staff. It's entertainment to me.

@SirMewser, I almost died laughing at your post here. Ha ha. Yeah, I like the "Little DK" comment. It's so true. There are a lot of DK tanks running around under 30k hp. Heck, I have seen a few running around with under 20k hp. I'm not sure if they realized that Igneous Shield had been nerfed to crap, and it's based on hp. To have it at the least effective, a DK tank has to be in the 50k and higher hp. Even my 2 hybrid tanks with both in the 40k, the Igneous is only giving about 3k to 3500 damage mitigation for allies. A DK tank in the 20k hp only have the Igneous mitigating about 1800 to 2k for allies. I have seen a DK tank with 17k hp running around just spamming out Igneous Shield. Ha ha. I kindly mentioned that the shield aren't helping much, at that low of an hp. It is fine and dandy for normal overland PvE land contents, but not so much against adds and bosses in a world boss pit or DLC dungeons where adds alone are popping out 4 to 8k damages and boss throwing out 9 to 20k. At least my trial tank is 60k hp. It used to be 72k hp, but tank's abilities and schematics were nerfed again some with Morrowind patch. So, I had to readjust.

Well, the 2 hybrid tanks of mine are still going quite strong, but those DLC world boss pits, such as the two in Hew's Bane are a bit more challenging, if you don't have a presentable size group taking it on. DLC world bosses are a bit more challenging, much as DLC dungeons. Wrothgar and Morrowind's world bosses are also a bit more challenging. With my tanks, I can get away with soloing certain DLC world bosses. I have soloed those two in Hew's Bane and most in Wrothgar and Vv, but of course, it is a bit more comfortable if there was one or two more peeps there. Even the Arena and Looming Shadow bosses in the Gold Coast, I have cleared with just one other player. However, any DK tanks with less than 30k hp, particularly under 20k hp; yeah, it would be rougher going against world boss pits, if there were only a couple peeps there. I'm not sure why even bother with having a tank under 30k.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Only thing that bothers me is that the ice staff taunt overwrites the sword and board taunt
so if a dps in my dungeon starts pulling aggro, cannot even get it back to focused on me until their heavy attack taunt expires
and just hope they do not do it again

Would have preferred if Destructive Clench had taunt added to Ice as a secondary effect rather than a longer immobilize
make one morph for tanking and the other for dps

The most recent taunt overrides the last taunt, regardless of the source. I recently had a DPS running one hand and shield who was using Pierce Armor/Ransack and overriding my tank's taunt from the same skill. I was like "So, are you using this skill? Because it has a taunt on it..." DPS: "Oh." And I'm thinking, "There's one I haven't seen before. What DPS uses One Hand and Shield and taunts with it?"

So it doesn't matter if its Pierce Armor, ice staff heavy attack, inner fire or the tormentor set, the most recent taunt will override one that has already been placed. That's not a problem, unless its a DPS/Healer overriding the tank, in which case, the boss just became their problem.

That is really messed up. No wonder why ice staff heavy attack is always overriding my tank's taunt.

I haven't seen, yet, any actual "tank" with an ice staff. Not getting into Tank 101, but a tank is, traditionally, a sword and board. There is a good reason why it is so. Aside from trials, it really doesn't matter if both of the bars are S&B. Pierce Armor is one of the meat and butter of a tank. It's low stam cost, and it taunts and applies Major Breach automatically. It is the simultaneous effects of the Pierce Armor. You can slot Inner Rage as well, if you have good amount of the majicka pool, but that is higher cost of majicka. I don't usually slot Inner Rage, if I don't need too. Piece Armor does it's job for a tank just fine. You can hit multiple targets just fine. Then, you have Absorb Magic or Defensive Stance that should slotted. You get 8% more block alone with this, and the S&B passive also enables more blocking efficiency; I think, what, another 15-20%. You need S&B for one bar (main bar, preferably) if you're really a tank. The other bar can be whatever (2H, staff, DW, etc..); thus, it would be a hybrid tank.

The only sorcs that I have ran into blasting out that heavy ice staff doesn't seem to be a hybrid (S&B on one bar and Ice Staff on the other bar, etc..) tank. All I see is a seemingly regular sorc with a slotted ice staff blasting away with the heavy attack, taunting/aggroing the boss, then back-padding and being chased by the boss all over the place. Heck, even in a few dungeon runs, I have had a sorc healer in the group with the ice staff slotted, and for some stupid reason, keep using heavy attack and overrides my tank's taunt; thus, pulling the boss away. Then, that healer runs around the place being chased by the boss. I then switch gear to dps mode and assist to dps the boss, until either the healer dies or loses the taunt.

I'm not knocking those actual tanks with S&B and using an ice staff on the other. However, if they are just using the ice staff to taunt, they're just missing out on the crucial effects of the Pierce Armor. Heck, fine, if ice staff works for them, and they like it.. cool. To each their own; whatever works. However, to me, it can be compared to a sorc using Annulment rather than Empowered Ward or Hardened Ward, or a StamDK using Green Blood or Coagulating Blood, rather than Vigor. One is seemingly less effective than the other. Again, you get the automatic double effects of taunt and Major Breach with Pierce Armor. Sure, it doesn't cost anything to heavy attack an ice staff, or any heavy attack for that matters, but it only aggo/taunt, and that's it. Also, with Pierce Armor, I normally always do a combo of heavy attack and Pierce Armor. I'm getting in the dps of the heavy attack and the effects of the Pierce Armor. I spam that along with the other abilities, and Major Breach applied on the boss and/or adds throughout. Major Breach never drops.

They are trolls had this one trial where guy was paid 50k if he wiped group,Good times no

Idk, as long as they know not to do a HA then I really do not see an issue. For AoE purposes they should still back bar a lightning staff and could use that for their HA.

Yea, I have seen some players do a HA with an ice staff, figure they are new and tell them if they do a HA with their ice staff they are tanking the target. Plain and simple.

Tasear wrote: »

They are trolls had this one trial where guy was paid 50k if he wiped group,Good times no

That is just messed up.. Many people are just doing stupid things.

Porter_H wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

I haven't seen, yet, any actual "tank" with an ice staff. Not getting into Tank 101, but a tank is, traditionally, a sword and board. There is a good reason why it is so. Aside from trials, it really doesn't matter if both of the bars are S&B. Pierce Armor is one of the meat and butter of a tank. It's low stam cost, and it taunts and applies Major Breach automatically. It is the simultaneous effects of the Pierce Armor. You can slot Inner Rage as well, if you have good amount of the majicka pool, but that is higher cost of majicka. I don't usually slot Inner Rage, if I don't need too. Piece Armor does it's job for a tank just fine. You can hit multiple targets just fine. Then, you have Absorb Magic or Defensive Stance that should slotted. You get 8% more block alone with this, and the S&B passive also enables more blocking efficiency; I think, what, another 15-20%. You need S&B for one bar (main bar, preferably) if you're really a tank. The other bar can be whatever (2H, staff, DW, etc..); thus, it would be a hybrid tank.

The only sorcs that I have ran into blasting out that heavy ice staff doesn't seem to be a hybrid (S&B on one bar and Ice Staff on the other bar, etc..) tank. All I see is a seemingly regular sorc with a slotted ice staff blasting away with the heavy attack, taunting/aggroing the boss, then back-padding and being chased by the boss all over the place. Heck, even in a few dungeon runs, I have had a sorc healer in the group with the ice staff slotted, and for some stupid reason, keep using heavy attack and overrides my tank's taunt; thus, pulling the boss away. Then, that healer runs around the place being chased by the boss. I then switch gear to dps mode and assist to dps the boss, until either the healer dies or loses the taunt.

I'm not knocking those actual tanks with S&B and using an ice staff on the other. However, if they are just using the ice staff to taunt, they're just missing out on the crucial effects of the Pierce Armor. Heck, fine, if ice staff works for them, and they like it.. cool. To each their own; whatever works. However, to me, it can be compared to a sorc using Annulment rather than Empowered Ward or Hardened Ward, or a StamDK using Green Blood or Coagulating Blood, rather than Vigor. One is seemingly less effective than the other. Again, you get the automatic double effects of taunt and Major Breach with Pierce Armor. Sure, it doesn't cost anything to heavy attack an ice staff, or any heavy attack for that matters, but it only aggo/taunt, and that's it. Also, with Pierce Armor, I normally always do a combo of heavy attack and Pierce Armor. I'm getting in the dps of the heavy attack and the effects of the Pierce Armor. I spam that along with the other abilities, and Major Breach applied on the boss and/or adds throughout. Major Breach never drops.

On my Sorc tank, I'll use the taunt from the frost staff to pick up loose mobs in random normal dungeons. S/B for almost all bosses. In Crypt of Hearts on the last fight, I can tank the melee boss off the round platform to avoid the AoE from the caster boss. I run in with pierce armor on the caster and have the dps burn him first. I tank the other boss away from him and use Inner Fire or frost staff taunt (if low on resources) to keep the caster boss if dps is having trouble burning him down. It's a lot easier on that boss with ranged dps and that strategy.

Oh, it's really helpful from lvl 15 to 30 or so if you're leveling as a tank too. Inner Fire isn't unlocked until lvl 3 of Undaunted so it gives leveling tanks a ranged option. Inner Fire probably should be a rank one skill honestly.

I do agree that Inner Rage should be on a tank bar, if you can slot it; but, you'll have to ensure the maj pool is up there, because it is a higher cost skill. I can't slot it with my hybrid tank, because the bars are limited with one bar being the S&B and the other being a weapon damaging skillset of either the 2H or lightning staff. However, with my pure S&B tank (which is just for trial runs), I can have Inner Rage on there. I have a decent maj pool in the 16k with this, but it is tricky to balance the maj resources with using Inner Rage and the other maj-based skillsets as Igneous Shield, Draw Essence and Hardened Armor. At least, you can spam Burning Embers for its effective lower cost. Yeah, you're able to pull a couple higher hp adds into the boss with Inner Rage, but anymore, you'll have a higher risk of running out of maj juice fast. You'll just have to be very good at resource management and keep a tight eye on thing, if you're the type that like to rely on Inner Rage.

Also, I actually prefer Inner Rage over the Unrelenting Chain. I know a lot of peeps and groups may prefer the chains (as what they are saying, or I'm seeing being posted on this forum) for vMoL or other vet trials. However, maybe it is just me, and having played a DK and numerous DK toons (both dps and tank) for so long now. To me, the chain is not effective, for normal or vet trials. It really only pulls adds under 60k hp, I believe. I have tried playing around with it and tried pulling those 75k to 112k adds in normal PvE contents, and it is not pulling any with that much health. I haven't tanked vMoL or had a tank with chain when I had gone through it with the group. I was mainly dps then. Still, I can't see how the chain would be so useful when adds are 100k and higher in vet trials. Yet, some peeps are saying chain is the thing to have for tank for vet trials. However, I don't see it. Again, maybe it is me, but I am only able to pull trash mobs and adds that are the norm around 30-50k hp running around in normal PvE land.