Warden archer -- ranger?

billp_ESO · November 2017

Would a warden archer with a bear pet be a viable "ranger" type character?

I mainly like to do the quests, with some amount of lower dungeons and PvP.

Go all medium armor? Bow and what, Staff? or dual wield? or??

DocFrost72 · November 2017

If you're looking for a ranger, does that mean you want primarily bow, or bow and dual wield? To answer your question, both answers are totally viable for questing and pvp, but the bear may annoy you when you first use it in cyrodiil. Start with one piece of heavy (chest, unless you prefer the aesthetic of another piece) and 6 medium. PvE, all divines. PvP, at least 5 impenetrable to help reduce incoming critical damage.

Check out alcasthq.com for pve (maybe pvp too, dunno if he posted them as I never check) builds. He's got a lot of good ones there.

Vizikul · November 2017

I use a bow/ bow build on my stam warden and in Pvp I die to everyone who comes closer than 10 meters. The bear is quite useless in pvp. It's single target, can be killed quick and it won't be able to assist you when you are standing on a high wall and attempting to defend a keep that's going to get zerged (or the other way around).

Jade1986 · November 2017

Alcast has the build you need for pve. Pvp however. I would recommend

7 Medium, no need for tht 1 heavy as a ranger.

- 5 Morag Tong
- 5 Marksman
- Asylum Bow mainbar w/ Poison of choice ( I prefer ravage health w/ increase stam cost w/ lingering damage health
- 2 Weapon Damage , 1 Stam Regen Jewelry
- Bow of whatever you want for backbar w/ weapon damage enchant
- ALL IMPEN, all Stam enchants, not a single divines, front bar weapon Sharpened, and backbar powered ( or whatever gives you 8% extra healing )
- Front bar Magnum shot, lethal arrow, poison injection, Cutting dive, Acid Spray and Ballista for Ulti
- Back bar Bull Netch, Shuffle, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, Resolving Vigor, Healing Thicket for Ulti
- Food - Dubious Camoran Throne
- Mundus - Warrior

I would also recommend having oodles of invis pots.

This is a hyper mobile ranger build that I have used since warden was released. Works really well.

If you are in a ggroup at all times the bear works, but without a group, that heal from thicket is quite essential.

Vizikul · November 2017

draining shot is actually better than magnum shot, it burst heals you and doesn't push you back in situations you really don't want to get pushed. Most players have gap closers with a range of ~22meters anyway so gaining range of 12 meters doesn't mean much.

Jade1986 · November 2017

Vizikul wrote: »

draining shot is actually better than magnum shot, it burst heals you and doesn't push you back in situations you really don't want to get pushed. Most players have gap closers with a range of ~22meters anyway so gaining range of 12 meters doesn't mean much.

at 6 meters they can still recking blow you without gap closing. And magnum shot is stronger. The heal is really weak, you could try it, but after testing the two off and on magnum shot is better imo. Add the 40% increase in damage from asylum bow, and it becomes pretty lethal for a stun.

SodanTok · November 2017

Jade1986 wrote: »

Vizikul wrote: »

draining shot is actually better than magnum shot, it burst heals you and doesn't push you back in situations you really don't want to get pushed. Most players have gap closers with a range of ~22meters anyway so gaining range of 12 meters doesn't mean much.

at 6 meters they can still recking blow you without gap closing. And magnum shot is stronger. The heal is really weak, you could try it, but after testing the two off and on magnum shot is better imo. Add the 40% increase in damage from asylum bow, and it becomes pretty lethal for a stun.

Forced movement is the worst thing in this game to do to yourself. Maybe you are one of a kind that likes it, but most people that say good things about magnum did not spend much time actually trying draining, Instead of using all the advantage the knockback on enemy gives you (to line up attacks like sub assault or snipe) you spend that time being knocked too, often in unfavorable position (like out of tower, to the river, ...)

And the heal is not weak lol. It would be nearly as strong as fully charged rally heal if you had same weapon damage on bow as you would have on 2h. Sure, i would not call it strong heal, but it is definitely noticeable. So much that I notice the missing heal ever since CWC patch that bugged it

DDuke · November 2017

Jade1986 wrote: »

Alcast has the build you need for pve. Pvp however. I would recommend

7 Medium, no need for tht 1 heavy as a ranger.

- 5 Morag Tong
- 5 Marksman
- Asylum Bow mainbar w/ Poison of choice ( I prefer ravage health w/ increase stam cost w/ lingering damage health
- 2 Weapon Damage , 1 Stam Regen Jewelry
- Bow of whatever you want for backbar w/ weapon damage enchant
- ALL IMPEN, all Stam enchants, not a single divines, front bar weapon Sharpened, and backbar powered ( or whatever gives you 8% extra healing )
- Front bar Magnum shot, lethal arrow, poison injection, Cutting dive, Acid Spray and Ballista for Ulti
- Back bar Bull Netch, Shuffle, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, Resolving Vigor, Healing Thicket for Ulti
- Food - Dubious Camoran Throne
- Mundus - Warrior

I would also recommend having oodles of invis pots.

This is a hyper mobile ranger build that I have used since warden was released. Works really well.

If you are in a ggroup at all times the bear works, but without a group, that heal from thicket is quite essential.

Wow... was just about to suggest almost the exact same build

I'd probably cut the Lethal Arrow on bow warden though & replace it with Sub Assault, you can use Asylum Bow to buff up Magnum Shot and combo it with Sub Assault & Dive.

Also, I'd maybe use Orzorga's Bear Haunch instead, that health regen is deceptively good for survivability

Drakkdjinn · November 2017

Equip a bow on any stam class - voila you can begin your LoTR Ranger ERP.

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

I use a warden bow-bow build occasionally in PVE. Works great for all dungeons, including vet DLC, and also vDSA and vMA. It has excellent frontal cone AoE, but lacks slightly in single target DPS (30k, vs about 40k on dual wield builds).

I recommend Master Bow front bar, with Maelstrom Bow back bar. Then pair a penetration set (night mothers gaze for group, Spriggans or two fang for solo) with another set of your choosing (VO, war machine, Briarheart, Hundings, Bone Pirate, Draugr Hulk, or hunt leader).

7 medium or 5-1-1 both work fine. All medium is slightly better for sustain, 5-1-1 increases survivability. Damage output is about be same for either of these options. 6M-1H is also a decent compromise between the 2.

For skills I use:
Front Bar: Acid Spray, Subterranean, Poison Inject, Vigor, Camo Hunter
Back Bar: Caltrops, Endless Hail, Lightweight Trap (or rearming), Bull Netch, Camo Hunter

Ultimate can be the bear, or ballista (with flawless dawnbreaker on the other bar for passive buff and AoE).

Race is ideally Bosmer or Khajiit, since Redguard, Orc and imperial passives only work up close.

The few times I have taken this character to PVP I get rid of acid spray and endless hail and slot Cutting Dive and Snipe. The forest healing ultimate can also be nice in PVP.

SodanTok · November 2017

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I use a warden bow-bow build occasionally in PVE. Works great for all dungeons, including vet DLC, and also vDSA and vMA. It has excellent frontal cone AoE, but lacks slightly in single target DPS (30k, vs about 40k on dual wield builds).

I recommend Master Bow front bar, with Maelstrom Bow back bar. Then pair a penetration set (night mothers gaze for group, Spriggans or two fang for solo) with another set of your choosing (VO, war machine, Briarheart, Hundings, Bone Pirate, Draugr Hulk, or hunt leader).

7 medium or 5-1-1 both work fine. All medium is slightly better for sustain, 5-1-1 increases survivability. Damage output is about be same for either of these options. 6M-1H is also a decent compromise between the 2.

For skills I use:
Front Bar: Acid Spray, Subterranean, Poison Inject, Vigor, Camo Hunter
Back Bar: Caltrops, Endless Hail, Lightweight Trap (or rearming), Bull Netch, Camo Hunter

Ultimate can be the bear, or ballista (with flawless dawnbreaker on the other bar for passive buff and AoE).

Race is ideally Bosmer or Khajiit, since Redguard, Orc and imperial passives only work up close.

The few times I have taken this character to PVP I get rid of acid spray and endless hail and slot Cutting Dive and Snipe. The forest healing ultimate can also be nice in PVP.

How do you pve without spammable, unless you just hold heavy attack between every sub assault?

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

@SodanTok I use a no-spammable rotation that is 12s long and includes:

2 Acid Spray (6s spacing)
4 Sub Assault (3s spacing)
1 Hail
1 Caltrops
1 Poison Inject
2 Lightweight Trap (6s spacing)
1 Heavy Attack

Those account for my 12 GCD's. Then every other rotation I activate the Netch.

I used to use cutting dive instead of acid spray, but found it only fit twice in the rotation, and if acid spray ticks for its full duration it has higher damage than one dive.

Edit: I also forgot to mention that I sometimes use Bird of Prey if I don't need vigor. It's not a DPS gain, but using a magicka skill in the rotation really helps with stamina sustain, and the speed boost can be nice too.

Note: This cannot compete with melee builds, but it is the best I've come up with for pure ranged.

SodanTok · November 2017

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@SodanTok I use a no-spammable rotation that is 12s long and includes:

2 Acid Spray (6s spacing)
4 Sub Assault (3s spacing)
1 Hail
1 Caltrops
1 Poison Inject
2 Lightweight Trap (6s spacing)
1 Heavy Attack

Those account for my 12 GCD's. Then every other rotation I activate the Netch.

I used to use cutting dive instead of acid spray, but found it only fit twice in the rotation, and if acid spray ticks for its full duration it has higher damage than one dive.

I am surprised you can do 30k with that. The sustain problems and 2sec without hail should have much bigger impact. Unless maybe you cheese a little with lover mundus or someone giving you resources? Not meaning it in bad way, I did a lot of testing on warden and other races regarding bow and my results have shown that best way is to minimize sustain problems by not using trap twice (and neither acid).

//edit: actually I automatically assumed you dont have the gear necessary, if you do have master bow (and obv vma) with trial gear it would explain everything

Insandros · November 2017

All archers are crap anyways, doesn't matter at all. Each time i grab an archer in a pug, i know i'll be carrying. (teasing you

)

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

No resource support for dummy parsing, and I've tried lover or warrior. It seems like lover adds about 1k DPS over warrior or about 3%. It works alright for solo, making up for Minor Fracture and Torugs Crisher or Alkosh, but I usually prefer Warrior since it boosts vigor.

SodanTok · November 2017

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

No resource support for dummy parsing, and I've tried lover or warrior. It seems like lover adds about 1k DPS over warrior or about 3%. It works alright for solo, making up for Minor Fracture and Torugs Crisher or Alkosh, but I usually prefer Warrior since it boosts vigor.

Well, cant say your rotation is bad because I havent tried it, 30k sounds solid. My PTS test with the best gear possible (5tfs/5vo/master/vma) and obv bear (no bear no dps, horrible class) were around 34-36k (depending on lucky crits and lucky poison procs) and it was achieved by using trap and acid only once. With cliff racer being the spammable.
Tho obv with snipe the DPS is even better, but imo then its better to use sorc or NB anyway.

Jade1986 · November 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Vizikul wrote: »

draining shot is actually better than magnum shot, it burst heals you and doesn't push you back in situations you really don't want to get pushed. Most players have gap closers with a range of ~22meters anyway so gaining range of 12 meters doesn't mean much.

at 6 meters they can still recking blow you without gap closing. And magnum shot is stronger. The heal is really weak, you could try it, but after testing the two off and on magnum shot is better imo. Add the 40% increase in damage from asylum bow, and it becomes pretty lethal for a stun.

Forced movement is the worst thing in this game to do to yourself. Maybe you are one of a kind that likes it, but most people that say good things about magnum did not spend much time actually trying draining, Instead of using all the advantage the knockback on enemy gives you (to line up attacks like sub assault or snipe) you spend that time being knocked too, often in unfavorable position (like out of tower, to the river, ...)

And the heal is not weak lol. It would be nearly as strong as fully charged rally heal if you had same weapon damage on bow as you would have on 2h. Sure, i would not call it strong heal, but it is definitely noticeable. So much that I notice the missing heal ever since CWC patch that bugged it

I mean, as a warden my tree is pretty much up 99.9% of the time, so i just dont really see the need in the extra heal. I like the extra umpf that magnum shot gives.

DDuke wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Alcast has the build you need for pve. Pvp however. I would recommend

7 Medium, no need for tht 1 heavy as a ranger.

- 5 Morag Tong
- 5 Marksman
- Asylum Bow mainbar w/ Poison of choice ( I prefer ravage health w/ increase stam cost w/ lingering damage health
- 2 Weapon Damage , 1 Stam Regen Jewelry
- Bow of whatever you want for backbar w/ weapon damage enchant
- ALL IMPEN, all Stam enchants, not a single divines, front bar weapon Sharpened, and backbar powered ( or whatever gives you 8% extra healing )
- Front bar Magnum shot, lethal arrow, poison injection, Cutting dive, Acid Spray and Ballista for Ulti
- Back bar Bull Netch, Shuffle, Green Lotus, Deceptive Predator, Resolving Vigor, Healing Thicket for Ulti
- Food - Dubious Camoran Throne
- Mundus - Warrior

I would also recommend having oodles of invis pots.

This is a hyper mobile ranger build that I have used since warden was released. Works really well.

If you are in a ggroup at all times the bear works, but without a group, that heal from thicket is quite essential.

Wow... was just about to suggest almost the exact same build

I'd probably cut the Lethal Arrow on bow warden though & replace it with Sub Assault, you can use Asylum Bow to buff up Magnum Shot and combo it with Sub Assault & Dive.

Also, I'd maybe use Orzorga's Bear Haunch instead, that health regen is deceptively good for survivability

I tried that, but I just fly to pieces if I try to put myself in melee range xD. I do kind of a pseudo nb type thing and use my invis pots to get two sneak attacks off in a row. Or to flee if necessary, since you can use deceptive pred while invis.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@SodanTok I use a no-spammable rotation that is 12s long and includes:

2 Acid Spray (6s spacing)
4 Sub Assault (3s spacing)
1 Hail
1 Caltrops
1 Poison Inject
2 Lightweight Trap (6s spacing)
1 Heavy Attack

Those account for my 12 GCD's. Then every other rotation I activate the Netch.

I used to use cutting dive instead of acid spray, but found it only fit twice in the rotation, and if acid spray ticks for its full duration it has higher damage than one dive.

Edit: I also forgot to mention that I sometimes use Bird of Prey if I don't need vigor. It's not a DPS gain, but using a magicka skill in the rotation really helps with stamina sustain, and the speed boost can be nice too.

Note: This cannot compete with melee builds, but it is the best I've come up with for pure ranged.

This is pretty much the pve setup of choice for a bow build =P

SodanTok · November 2017

@Jade1986 I guess, I much more prefer to actually use offensive ultimates and trees are more like backup. Could be just difference of styles (regarding the heal), but I stand behind that the forced self knockback of magnum is more often harmful than useful.

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

Snipe can be nice for the armor debuff, but I can't stand skills with a cast time. I usually group with a healer that runs PotL for minor breach and fracture.

34-36k is definitely solid, I don't think I've hit anything that high on bow-bow. I also have done much dummy parsing for CWC, I could hit 28k-30k consistently in HotR, and I know those numbers have gone up with adding a poison enchant to my Master Bow and Weapon Damage to my Maelstrom Bow.

Jade1986 · November 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

@Jade1986 I guess, I much more prefer to actually use offensive ultimates and trees are more like backup. Could be just difference of styles (regarding the heal), but I stand behind that the forced self knockback of magnum is more often harmful than useful.

I will admit, it took getting used to, I had my.....incidents you could say of flying into a pool of slaughterfish xD. Tri pots are also golden I find ^^ I also generally try not to get into 1 v 1 fights. Its about a 50-50 crap shoot whether I will win or not.

Vizikul · November 2017

wow, my warden only pulls 17k dps. I don't have trial gear, masters bow/ arena bow yet though.