Ahbiilok - THE DRAGON - and Morrowind - We'll ever see him?

Milvan · November 2017

Hello comrades.

As the Atlas of Dragons (2E 373 by Brother Mathnan, couple of hundred of years before 2E 580 ESO events) states:

"(...)
Known to Live
Ahbiilok - Sightings dating back to the early years of the Dragonguard throughout the northern Jerralls. Multiple attempts to kill him have failed. He is believed to be lairing somewhere in Morrowind.
(...)"

And Twin Secrets (4E 5~, by Brarilu Theran, 2 eras later) also confirms that Ahbiilok is still in Morrowind:

"In my life, I've traveled widely. I've seen Summerset Isle, communed with Psijiics, walked the shores of Akavir. I had hoped to see lost Atmora before I passed, that is not to be. I have even done the unthinkable. I have spoken to a dragon.

Dragons are said to be gone from the world. Yet I found one. Sheltered in the smoking ruins of Vvardenfell, I came upon it. My magic proved to be sufficient to defeat the beast. If that gives you cause to wonder, I will not deny that I was once a pyromancer of great skill.

Exhausted and near the end of my spells, I parlayed with the wyrm, offering it life if it would share it's secrets. Haughty to the end, it agreed to one secret for one life. I asked for it's [sic] name, but it told me it would rather die than surrender that. Instead if [sic] offered me something else. And that it [sic] how I learned how to defy the Law of Firsts."

So we have very strong evidence that Ahbiilok is sitting on Morrowind during the three banners war. Dragons are not that reclusive after all (the Atlas of the Dragons it self states that a couple of dragons maintain relations with other races) and it would be great if it could share with us more knowledge about things of Tamriel that we not yet understand. It such a good opportunity to expand the lore.

Also, don't forget that the Dragonguard is still out there, fighting for the empire (I believe) and waiting for the next Dragonborn, they tried to kill Ahbiilok before, would they just stop trying?

FloppyTouch · November 2017

I want everyone riding on dragon mounts F the lore

SydneyGrey · November 2017

I think this dragon would be great as a single boss in a group area, just for fun. I know people will jump on here to scream "NO!" for ... some reason. People hate change. Not sure why anyone would be against having a single dragon as a boss when the lore supports it, but there was a thread about this dragon months and months ago, and some people were screaming about how they never wanted it as a boss, EVER, no matter what. Not sure why.

People ride armored sabre cats in ESO, yet they'd be against having a single dragon as a boss even though the lore supports it. I just don't get that.

Milvan · November 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think this dragon would be great as a single boss in a group area, just for fun. I know people will jump on here to scream "NO!" for ... some reason. People hate change. Not sure why anyone would be against having a single dragon as a boss when the lore supports it, but there was a thread about this dragon months and months ago, and some people were screaming about how they never wanted it as a boss, EVER, no matter what. Not sure why.

People ride armored sabre cats in ESO, yet they'd be against having a single dragon as a boss even though the lore supports it. I just don't get that.

Indeed. ESO playbase (well, at least the forum warriors) are quite closed minded on this especific subject. Don't even try to say the words

flying, gliding

It's a shame that the devs and loremaster feel constricted by such players. I mean having Ahbiilok around would be great to expand the lore especially about the Dragon War.

liviogc · November 2017

Milvan wrote: »

Hello comrades.

As the Atlas of Dragons (2E 373 by Brother Mathnan, couple of hundred of years before 2E 580 ESO events) states:

"(...)
Known to Live
Ahbiilok - Sightings dating back to the early years of the Dragonguard throughout the northern Jerralls. Multiple attempts to kill him have failed. He is believed to be lairing somewhere in Morrowind.
(...)"

And Twin Secrets (4E 5~, by Brarilu Theran, 2 eras later) also confirms that Ahbiilok is still in Morrowind:

"In my life, I've traveled widely. I've seen Summerset Isle, communed with Psijiics, walked the shores of Akavir. I had hoped to see lost Atmora before I passed, that is not to be. I have even done the unthinkable. I have spoken to a dragon.

Dragons are said to be gone from the world. Yet I found one. Sheltered in the smoking ruins of Vvardenfell, I came upon it. My magic proved to be sufficient to defeat the beast. If that gives you cause to wonder, I will not deny that I was once a pyromancer of great skill.

Exhausted and near the end of my spells, I parlayed with the wyrm, offering it life if it would share it's secrets. Haughty to the end, it agreed to one secret for one life. I asked for it's [sic] name, but it told me it would rather die than surrender that. Instead if [sic] offered me something else. And that it [sic] how I learned how to defy the Law of Firsts."

So we have very strong evidence that Ahbiilok is sitting on Morrowind during the three banners war. Dragons are not that reclusive after all (the Atlas of the Dragons it self states that a couple of dragons maintain relations with other races) and it would be great if it could share with us more knowledge about things of Tamriel that we not yet understand. It such a good opportunity to expand the lore.

Also, don't forget that the Dragonguard is still out there, fighting for the empire (I believe) and waiting for the next Dragonborn, they tried to kill Ahbiilok before, would they just stop trying?

good idea

Taleof2Cities · November 2017

In B4 the flying mounts crowd tries to sideswipe the thread ... oh wait ...

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I want everyone riding on dragon mounts F the lore

ArchMikem · November 2017

Milvan wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think this dragon would be great as a single boss in a group area, just for fun. I know people will jump on here to scream "NO!" for ... some reason. People hate change. Not sure why anyone would be against having a single dragon as a boss when the lore supports it, but there was a thread about this dragon months and months ago, and some people were screaming about how they never wanted it as a boss, EVER, no matter what. Not sure why.

People ride armored sabre cats in ESO, yet they'd be against having a single dragon as a boss even though the lore supports it. I just don't get that.

Indeed. ESO playbase (well, at least the forum warriors) are quite closed minded on this especific subject. Don't even try to say the words
flying, gliding

It's a shame that the devs and loremaster feel constricted by such players. I mean having Ahbiilok around would be great to expand the lore especially about the Dragon War.

There is opposition because there is a feeling of obsession towards Dragons. Skyrim was all about Dragons, and a lot of players here in ESO came here because of Skyrim. They just want moar dragonz, so they make threads wanting Dragon bosses and Dragon mounts and Dragon pets.. Im not against an appearance, i just prefer a subtle approach. Like Paarthurnax, a Dragon offering wisdom.

Then again, we talk to a Dragon in a burial mound in Grahtwood.

Hanzus · November 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think this dragon would be great as a single boss in a group area, just for fun. I know people will jump on here to scream "NO!" for ... some reason. People hate change. Not sure why anyone would be against having a single dragon as a boss when the lore supports it, but there was a thread about this dragon months and months ago, and some people were screaming about how they never wanted it as a boss, EVER, no matter what. Not sure why.

People ride armored sabre cats in ESO, yet they'd be against having a single dragon as a boss even though the lore supports it. I just don't get that.

I feel the same way, I just don't get it

Sibenice · November 2017

I'd say the biggest problem with this dragon is that he's said to probably still be alive after the events of ESO.

It wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to run into a hidden dragon somewhere but I feel they shouldn't touch on any that are at least probably still alive by Skyrim times. And as far as making it friendly. We are not dragonborn, we have no connection to the dragons nor a reason to ally with them so that would probably feel a little fanservice-y. Just my feelings on it.

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think this dragon would be great as a single boss in a group area, just for fun. I know people will jump on here to scream "NO!" for ... some reason. People hate change. Not sure why anyone would be against having a single dragon as a boss when the lore supports it, but there was a thread about this dragon months and months ago, and some people were screaming about how they never wanted it as a boss, EVER, no matter what. Not sure why.

People ride armored sabre cats in ESO, yet they'd be against having a single dragon as a boss even though the lore supports it. I just don't get that.

I think it be a great boss if it wasnt a known Dragon that is supposed to be alive as of the Fourth Era. Throwing out Lore or bending lore still needs to fit the need at the moment. Riding sabre cats can easily be explained away as something that eventually fell out of fashion or was extremely rare. Killing a Dragon that according to lore in another time period states didnt die is obviously unnecessarily breaking the lore. Just get a previously unknown dragon and kill that. I dont know why everyone insists on dragging known to be alive as of 4th Era Dragons into debates on Dragons as bosses in Trials or Dungeons. Probably because they know theyll be shouted down, and for good reason, so they can claim people are being unreasonable.

SisterGoat · November 2017

I wouldn't mind seeing a dragon lich raised by some necromancers. That wouldn't be too lore-unfriendly.

Walks_With_Kagouti · November 2017

Or we could make him a group event but instead of "killing him" he flys away at like 25% health and then a golden chest spawns n you get loot from that.

bottleofsyrup · November 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think this dragon would be great as a single boss in a group area, just for fun. I know people will jump on here to scream "NO!" for ... some reason. People hate change. Not sure why anyone would be against having a single dragon as a boss when the lore supports it, but there was a thread about this dragon months and months ago, and some people were screaming about how they never wanted it as a boss, EVER, no matter what. Not sure why.

People ride armored sabre cats in ESO, yet they'd be against having a single dragon as a boss even though the lore supports it. I just don't get that.

Indeed. ESO playbase (well, at least the forum warriors) are quite closed minded on this especific subject. Don't even try to say the words
flying, gliding

It's a shame that the devs and loremaster feel constricted by such players. I mean having Ahbiilok around would be great to expand the lore especially about the Dragon War.

There is opposition because there is a feeling of obsession towards Dragons. Skyrim was all about Dragons, and a lot of players here in ESO came here because of Skyrim. They just want moar dragonz, so they make threads wanting Dragon bosses and Dragon mounts and Dragon pets.. Im not against an appearance, i just prefer a subtle approach. Like Paarthurnax, a Dragon offering wisdom.

Then again, we talk to a Dragon in a burial mound in Grahtwood.

Wasn't that one of the "earth bones"?

starkerealm · November 2017

Milvan wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think this dragon would be great as a single boss in a group area, just for fun. I know people will jump on here to scream "NO!" for ... some reason. People hate change. Not sure why anyone would be against having a single dragon as a boss when the lore supports it, but there was a thread about this dragon months and months ago, and some people were screaming about how they never wanted it as a boss, EVER, no matter what. Not sure why.

People ride armored sabre cats in ESO, yet they'd be against having a single dragon as a boss even though the lore supports it. I just don't get that.

Indeed. ESO playbase (well, at least the forum warriors) are quite closed minded on this especific subject. Don't even try to say the words
flying, gliding

It's a shame that the devs and loremaster feel constricted by such players. I mean having Ahbiilok around would be great to expand the lore especially about the Dragon War.

I seriously doubt the loremasters feel constrained by players who say, "nuuu, eehts nawt lore friendly," because if they did care, we wouldn't have any of the Apex mounts, the Dro'm-athra mount, the Senches in general (for non-Khajiits anyway)... we'd be stuck with horses and guar.

No, the loremasters are feeling constrained because it is in fact lore breaking.

There's nothing wrong with, at some point down the line, interacting with a dragon or two. As people have pointed out, they do exist on Tamriel. But, I doubt we'd fight any there.

That said, it is possible there's another Dragon out there, like Durnehviir, hiding in some plane of oblivion which constantly revives him, which could make for a good lair boss someday. I just don't think it's a simple as letting us attack Ahbiilok.

ArchMikem · November 2017

bottleofsyrup wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think this dragon would be great as a single boss in a group area, just for fun. I know people will jump on here to scream "NO!" for ... some reason. People hate change. Not sure why anyone would be against having a single dragon as a boss when the lore supports it, but there was a thread about this dragon months and months ago, and some people were screaming about how they never wanted it as a boss, EVER, no matter what. Not sure why.

People ride armored sabre cats in ESO, yet they'd be against having a single dragon as a boss even though the lore supports it. I just don't get that.

Indeed. ESO playbase (well, at least the forum warriors) are quite closed minded on this especific subject. Don't even try to say the words
flying, gliding

It's a shame that the devs and loremaster feel constricted by such players. I mean having Ahbiilok around would be great to expand the lore especially about the Dragon War.

There is opposition because there is a feeling of obsession towards Dragons. Skyrim was all about Dragons, and a lot of players here in ESO came here because of Skyrim. They just want moar dragonz, so they make threads wanting Dragon bosses and Dragon mounts and Dragon pets.. Im not against an appearance, i just prefer a subtle approach. Like Paarthurnax, a Dragon offering wisdom.

Then again, we talk to a Dragon in a burial mound in Grahtwood.

Wasn't that one of the "earth bones"?

Nope, it was the soul of a Dragon speaking through his Skull that was dug up. You ask him what he used to be. He just laughs and says, "Much taller."

wenchmore420b14_ESO · November 2017

Yes, there are dragons alive during the time frame of ESO.
But, there are ONLY a very small hand full. Skyrim dragons were all dead and resurrected by Alduin, which is why there are so many in 4E.
As far as living dragons in 2E583:
Alduin~ Spawn of Akatosh, Eater of Worlds.... Basically a God and Immortal.
Mirmulnir~ Last seen 2E212
Paarthurnax~ Alduin's Leuitenent
Ahbiilok~ Not seen since last of 1E
Nafaalilargus~ Appears in TESL: Redguard and is Tiber's Dragon at end of 2nd era.
That's about it. Maybe 1 or 2 more.
And lets face it. The majority of "I Want Dragons" ARE the Skyrim fans who never played the other TES games.
Of the 10 Elder Scrolls games only 2 had dragons. And 1 of those was only one dragon and was small part of game.
So, please. No Dragons.

I do agree the "Crown Crate" mounts are a abomination to lore. That's why I personally want them to try and keep with what lore we do have left. But a hat's off to Lawrence Shick and the writers for a awesome job so far!! Huzzah!!

deamor666eb17_ESO · November 2017

Please no dragons.
Skyrim was ruined by the damn things.

Why does every single fantasy game / book / movie / whatever need dragons?
That's one of the main reasons I loved Elder Scrolls lore because there were no dragons to be found. Until Skyrim...

So please no dragons in ESO.

Zorvan · November 2017

Dragons can be defeated without having to be killed. Nothing stops an encounter ending in the dragon running with his/her tail between their legs. So the argument over whether the dragon is supposed to be alive later on or not is moot. Also, all the dragons in Skyrim were raised from the dead by Alduin, so being killed now affects nothing outside of maybe one or two dragons alive during the time of the other TES games.

Fodore · November 2017

I think a whole new dungeon would be cool themed around this dragon bloke you spoke of

Vuldovahkriid · November 2017

The closest thing they would probably release, is maybe a tamed Wamasu. Personally I'd rather have one of them, then a dragon. And who knows, maybe we'll get some serpentine type mounts when Murkmire drops.

Huyen · November 2017

ESO is in a different time-line then Morrowind and Skyrim. So its not likely we will ever encounter it. If we were in the same timeline, the odds are against us anyhow, as it has to be implemented somehow, wich is not likely to happen.

Vuldovahkriid · November 2017

Huyen wrote: »

ESO is in a different time-line then Morrowind and Skyrim. So its not likely we will ever encounter it. If we were in the same timeline, the odds are against us anyhow, as it has to be implemented somehow, wich is not likely to happen.

Plus ESO can be written off/changed thanks to Dragon Breaks. That's why Pyandonea/Akavir(maybe even Atmora), can be ideas for future Chapters. In the lore these places were rarely traveled to, but ESO is kind of it's own thing, only tied to certain lore parameters.

starkerealm · November 2017

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

But, there are ONLY a very small hand full. Skyrim dragons were all dead and resurrected by Alduin, which is why there are so many in 4E.

The rule of thumb is, any dragon you can encounter in Skyrim before visiting Kyne's Grove is alive and active without Alduin's aid. The list is slightly longer than you might expect, though you did point out the ones that show up in the Annals. The Blackreach dragon, and the pair in Hidden Vale are also alive and kicking in the second era.

starkerealm · November 2017

Huyen wrote: »

ESO is in a different time-line then Morrowind and Skyrim. So its not likely we will ever encounter it. If we were in the same timeline, the odds are against us anyhow, as it has to be implemented somehow, wich is not likely to happen.

No. ESO does not take place in a separate timeline from the main games. This isn't an "alternate universe" variant of Tamriel.

Though, when you get into TES's metaphysics, the concept of timelines quickly loses relevance. In this case, ESO reflects three distinct, possible timelines that are intermittently merged together as you progress through the game. If this doesn't immediately make sense, don't worry about it. It's honestly kinda bonkers when you unpack it.

But, the important takeaway is, this is roughly 1k years before the events of Skyrim. That is the future for your characters' world, even though it's one they (almost certainly) will not live to see.

DMuehlhausen · November 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I want everyone riding on dragon mounts F the lore

And F the game engine requiring the game to be complete redesigned from the ground up. That is one reason there are no flying mounts or capes.

idk · November 2017

We shall not see a dragon, well, if Zos keeps to their word on something.

starkerealm · November 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

I want everyone riding on dragon mounts F the lore

Total War: Warhammer 2's over there. Plenty of dragons if you're playing High Elves or Dark Elves. Have fun.

JKorr · November 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think this dragon would be great as a single boss in a group area, just for fun. I know people will jump on here to scream "NO!" for ... some reason. People hate change. Not sure why anyone would be against having a single dragon as a boss when the lore supports it, but there was a thread about this dragon months and months ago, and some people were screaming about how they never wanted it as a boss, EVER, no matter what. Not sure why.

People ride armored sabre cats in ESO, yet they'd be against having a single dragon as a boss even though the lore supports it. I just don't get that.

Indeed. ESO playbase (well, at least the forum warriors) are quite closed minded on this especific subject. Don't even try to say the words
flying, gliding

It's a shame that the devs and loremaster feel constricted by such players. I mean having Ahbiilok around would be great to expand the lore especially about the Dragon War.

There is opposition because there is a feeling of obsession towards Dragons. Skyrim was all about Dragons, and a lot of players here in ESO came here because of Skyrim. They just want moar dragonz, so they make threads wanting Dragon bosses and Dragon mounts and Dragon pets.. Im not against an appearance, i just prefer a subtle approach. Like Paarthurnax, a Dragon offering wisdom.

Then again, we talk to a Dragon in a burial mound in Grahtwood.

No, we talk to the spirit of *something* that is buried in Grahtwood. What Dringoth is currently inhabiting is the skull of a bosmer. When you talk to him, and the other spirits about him, he really doesn't come across as ever having been a dragon. They accuse him of angering the bosmer because of his wandering; he crushed whole villages by accidentally walking over them. The reports you find during the quest point this out as well: ttp://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bone_Orchard_Research_Log_1

Creative application of energies ensured the locals were eager to see us safely to Arborfell, though it would seem our objective now goes by "the Bone Orchard." Descriptive, if quaint.The concentration of massive bones confirms what the records only hinted at—this is, indeed, a repository for the bones of the wandering ones the Bosmer once feared and reviled. Whether they are also the bones of the Ehlnofey has yet to be seen, for they are sealed as surely as any coffer from our use.Fortunately for us, the panoply of Bosmer remains scattered about this Bone Orchard are not sealed in kind. They are being gathered for use in the creation of skeletal constructs as I put these words to paper. Our scouts have noted the presence of smoke rising from a cavern mouth on the northern hill. I have ordered an investigation.—Ethruin

I got the impression that his skull alone was the entire hill; the tree grown through it just rooted him in place. Perhaps a shape like a titanosaur since he mentions inadvertently smashing things when he wandered, but that doesn't make him a dragon. Even Alduin wasn't close to large enough to wipe out a village by walking over it, or create a hill as large as the Barrowbough with only his skull. If you convince Olphras and the others that Dringoth should be allowed to go free, he'll tell you

"Can't say I'll miss throwing back wave after wave of Wormies and their bony minions. But now I have a chance to see the world! Meet new and interesting people! Only now I won't accidentally smash everything in my path. Rather embarrassing, that."

What will you do now?
"See the world, I expect. Folks may not take kindly to chattering Elf bones, but it's better than stomping everything to jelly, eh? "

The dragon skull is, iirc, Goradir, and if he was one of the "wanderers" that the bosmer were afraid of, he might not have had the shape of a dragon permanently. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ehlnofey You summon/save/talk to other entities in the game that are referred to as "Earth Bones" for a DC quest, Champion of the Guardians.

JKorr · November 2017

I would have no issues with running into a dragon that has been noted as being active during this time. Not sure whether it would work as a boss to be killed, since the rumors/history don't really cover that happening. I would love to see Paarth flying over the appropriate areas near the Throat of the World....By the Divines that is a *big* cliffstrider...[Paarth shouts in the distance]...Ooookayyy, *so* not a cliffstrider....::stands staring in awe until eaten by a sabercat::

Having thousands of dragons in the game so wanna-be dragonborns can ride them? No. As a "normal" mount for players in the game, no. There are not enough totally nameless dragons active in this time period to play mindless taxis for players.

Defilted · November 2017

Fictional game here people...

They can make up and entire dragon island that is lost in time and put it in and make it fit in the lore however they want. ZOS/Bethesda and make the lore do whatever they want.

If it is fun add it...

Doctordarkspawn · November 2017

Milvan wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think this dragon would be great as a single boss in a group area, just for fun. I know people will jump on here to scream "NO!" for ... some reason. People hate change. Not sure why anyone would be against having a single dragon as a boss when the lore supports it, but there was a thread about this dragon months and months ago, and some people were screaming about how they never wanted it as a boss, EVER, no matter what. Not sure why.

People ride armored sabre cats in ESO, yet they'd be against having a single dragon as a boss even though the lore supports it. I just don't get that.

Indeed. ESO playbase (well, at least the forum warriors) are quite closed minded on this especific subject. Don't even try to say the words
flying, gliding

It's a shame that the devs and loremaster feel constricted by such players. I mean having Ahbiilok around would be great to expand the lore especially about the Dragon War.

Do yu have any actual evidence they're constricted or is this just projecting?