This patch is completely disappointing for stamina

Ragnaroek93 · November 2017

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Asardes · November 2017

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

Ariades_swe · November 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm. I can understand Stamdks and Stamsorcs complaining but not Stamblades or Stamdens.

Ragnaroek93 · November 2017

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Ariades_swe · November 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win a 1v2 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs or premade vs premade in cytodiil I agree there's better classes than stamblades. Overall I find Stamblades extremelt good at certain playstyles or situations just as my magdk.
But let's agree to disagree.. I think stamblades fine and you don't.

rimmidimdim · November 2017

Stam classes are fine. I like my build and I fight against other Stam classes other than NB that are really good too. Lots of really good tough builds, all styles.

Ragnaroek93 · November 2017

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Don't get confused by 1v2 and 2v1, I did write it clear

Stamblade would be ok if Shade and Cloak wouldn't be a bug competition. With both skills in such a terrible state the class is just garbage as well (same as most magblade builds imo).

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Stam classes are fine. I like my build and I fight against other Stam classes other than NB that are really good too. Lots of really good tough builds, all styles.

You can always be fine, just not against good magicka opponents. I haven't met a stamclass since CWC which I couldn't beat (maybe some troll stamwarden builds with teddy pet slotted).

ak_pvp · November 2017

Generally agree that stamina took some Ls recently with med armour being bad, (The passives are awful, sneak buffs, wow so helpful...) all the undodgable crap and mag outclassing nearly every group effect a stam class can do, stam has its ups.

The nerfs:
"Literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard."

Shuffle was fair, but should have had some recomp.
Redguard nerfs are stupid, just look at argonians.
Vitality pots were the tank crutch and ended that mess.
Healing CP affects everyone.
Unchained: In practice I don't think (Correct me if wrong) its super a massive nerf, after break free 3s gave time for 2 abilities due to GCDs. Now its one for 5s, but can be reapplied sooner. I didn't think it was necessary nerfing, was unique and a good CP passive affecting timing.
Proc sets were cancer, skoria is still strong but has its many limits. As for selenes vs shadowrend. Wut. The cloak reveal is bad, but 15k selene drops were mad.

The pros:

Mobility: Stam still has FM, better than mist by a mile, though the lack of burst healing sucks. Spd/stm/imv pots amaze.
Generally has higher burst damage.
Better sets: 7th legion exists, the best set for outnumbered PvP. Bonerpirate, WW hide, Fury+ravager are good too without counterpart. This meaning stam has more prevalence in 1vX scenarios.

Stamplar, stamwarden (definitely) and stamNB (Depending, if not bugged af,) are all strong and definitely viable options. SDK and Stamsorc do well in their niche but definitely need love since the classes were thought of as essentially mag.

(SDK doesn't make sense, tanky beserker playstyle so dots aren't useful, ZOS actively punishing block/tanky/1vx mechanics)

Ariades_swe · November 2017

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Don't get confused by 1v2 and 2v1, I did write it clear
Stamblade would be ok if Shade and Cloak wouldn't be a bug competition. With both skills in such a terrible state the class is just garbage as well (same as most magblade builds imo).

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Stam classes are fine. I like my build and I fight against other Stam classes other than NB that are really good too. Lots of really good tough builds, all styles.

You can always be fine, just not against good magicka opponents. I haven't met a stamclass since CWC which I couldn't beat (maybe some troll stamwarden builds with teddy pet slotted).

Yeah I meant 1v2 obviously...I changed it now for people that fail to understand it's a typo.
Now can you name a magicka class that can reliably 1v2 good players?

Ariades_swe · November 2017

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Don't get confused by 1v2 and 2v1, I did write it clear
Stamblade would be ok if Shade and Cloak wouldn't be a bug competition. With both skills in such a terrible state the class is just garbage as well (same as most magblade builds imo).

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Stam classes are fine. I like my build and I fight against other Stam classes other than NB that are really good too. Lots of really good tough builds, all styles.

You can always be fine, just not against good magicka opponents. I haven't met a stamclass since CWC which I couldn't beat (maybe some troll stamwarden builds with teddy pet slotted).

ak_pvp · November 2017

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Don't get confused by 1v2 and 2v1, I did write it clear
Stamblade would be ok if Shade and Cloak wouldn't be a bug competition. With both skills in such a terrible state the class is just garbage as well (same as most magblade builds imo).

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Stam classes are fine. I like my build and I fight against other Stam classes other than NB that are really good too. Lots of really good tough builds, all styles.

You can always be fine, just not against good magicka opponents. I haven't met a stamclass since CWC which I couldn't beat (maybe some troll stamwarden builds with teddy pet slotted).

Yeah I meant 1v2 obviously.
Now answer my original question.
Name a class that can reliably 1v2 good players?

If you yourself are a good player, a warden.

FearlessOne_2014 · November 2017

Stamina classes so underwhelming that, they consist most of the solo and small scale groups. Yup sounds super underwhelming to me. ~sarcasm~

Give me a break with this stamina is underpowered stuff. Properly stamina builds are so far from underpowered that they have far better success in solo and small scale engagements with others and even zergs.

Waffennacht · November 2017

It's a different PvP world. What were once considered extremes now seem common place.

Stam builds now reach 4-6k wpn damage, mag builds reach 50k mag (these numbers were once impossible) heck I remember a 12k tooltip on frag being jaw dropping.

To me 3k wpn DMG is the base line for unbuffed if you wanna get kills.

I'm losing touch with mag, I'm just enjoying stamina more, the playstyle (over mag warden or mag sorc) is just more involved - which I enjoy.

Ariades_swe · November 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Don't get confused by 1v2 and 2v1, I did write it clear
Stamblade would be ok if Shade and Cloak wouldn't be a bug competition. With both skills in such a terrible state the class is just garbage as well (same as most magblade builds imo).

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Stam classes are fine. I like my build and I fight against other Stam classes other than NB that are really good too. Lots of really good tough builds, all styles.

You can always be fine, just not against good magicka opponents. I haven't met a stamclass since CWC which I couldn't beat (maybe some troll stamwarden builds with teddy pet slotted).

Yeah I meant 1v2 obviously.
Now answer my original question.
Name a class that can reliably 1v2 good players?

If you yourself are a good player, a warden.

Yeah I agree but OP is comparing his stamblade to magicka classes.

Ariades_swe · November 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

Generally agree that stamina took some Ls recently with med armour being bad, (The passives are awful, sneak buffs, wow so helpful...) all the undodgable crap and mag outclassing nearly every group effect a stam class can do, stam has its ups.

The nerfs:
"Literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard."
Shuffle was fair, but should have had some recomp.

Redguard nerfs are stupid, just look at argonians.

Vitality pots were the tank crutch and ended that mess.

Healing CP affects everyone.

Unchained: In practice I don't think (Correct me if wrong) its super a massive nerf, after break free 3s gave time for 2 abilities due to GCDs. Now its one for 5s, but can be reapplied sooner. I didn't think it was necessary nerfing, was unique and a good CP passive affecting timing.

Proc sets were cancer, skoria is still strong but has its many limits. As for selenes vs shadowrend. Wut. The cloak reveal is bad, but 15k selene drops were mad.

The pros:
Mobility: Stam still has FM, better than mist by a mile, though the lack of burst healing sucks. Spd/stm/imv pots amaze.

Generally has higher burst damage.

Better sets: 7th legion exists, the best set for outnumbered PvP. Bonerpirate, WW hide, Fury+ravager are good too without counterpart. This meaning stam has more prevalence in 1vX scenarios.

Stamplar, stamwarden (definitely) and stamNB (Depending, if not bugged af,) are all strong and definitely viable options. SDK and Stamsorc do well in their niche but definitely need love since the classes were thought of as essentially mag.

(SDK doesn't make sense, tanky beserker playstyle so dots aren't useful, ZOS actively punishing block/tanky/1vx mechanics)

Good post.

Ragnaroek93 · November 2017

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Stamina classes so underwhelming that, they consist most of the solo and small scale groups. Yup sounds super underwhelming to me. ~sarcasm~

Give me a break with this stamina is underpowered stuff. Properly stamina builds are so far from underpowered that they have far better success in solo and small scale engagements with others and even zergs.

Yeah I'm so bad that I did compete with streamers and tournament winners in duels, try harder next time.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Don't get confused by 1v2 and 2v1, I did write it clear
Stamblade would be ok if Shade and Cloak wouldn't be a bug competition. With both skills in such a terrible state the class is just garbage as well (same as most magblade builds imo).

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Stam classes are fine. I like my build and I fight against other Stam classes other than NB that are really good too. Lots of really good tough builds, all styles.

You can always be fine, just not against good magicka opponents. I haven't met a stamclass since CWC which I couldn't beat (maybe some troll stamwarden builds with teddy pet slotted).

Yeah I meant 1v2 obviously...I changed it for people that failed to see it's a typo.
Now can you name a magicka class that can reliably 1v2 good players?

I said no class can win a 1v2 against 2 people who aren't fully potatoes? So why even care about that scenario?

ak_pvp wrote: »

Generally agree that stamina took some Ls recently with med armour being bad, (The passives are awful, sneak buffs, wow so helpful...) all the undodgable crap and mag outclassing nearly every group effect a stam class can do, stam has its ups.

The nerfs:
"Literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard."
Shuffle was fair, but should have had some recomp.

Redguard nerfs are stupid, just look at argonians.

Vitality pots were the tank crutch and ended that mess.

Healing CP affects everyone.

Unchained: In practice I don't think (Correct me if wrong) its super a massive nerf, after break free 3s gave time for 2 abilities due to GCDs. Now its one for 5s, but can be reapplied sooner. I didn't think it was necessary nerfing, was unique and a good CP passive affecting timing.

Proc sets were cancer, skoria is still strong but has its many limits. As for selenes vs shadowrend. Wut. The cloak reveal is bad, but 15k selene drops were mad.

The pros:
Mobility: Stam still has FM, better than mist by a mile, though the lack of burst healing sucks. Spd/stm/imv pots amaze.

Generally has higher burst damage.

Better sets: 7th legion exists, the best set for outnumbered PvP. Bonerpirate, WW hide, Fury+ravager are good too without counterpart. This meaning stam has more prevalence in 1vX scenarios.

Stamplar, stamwarden (definitely) and stamNB (Depending, if not bugged af,) are all strong and definitely viable options. SDK and Stamsorc do well in their niche but definitely need love since the classes were thought of as essentially mag.

(SDK doesn't make sense, tanky beserker playstyle so dots aren't useful, ZOS actively punishing block/tanky/1vx mechanics)

I don't think any class is good 1vX anymore tbh, unless it's a sorc or nightblade (well... not anymore, RIP Shadow Image) because other classes have zero defense against zergs. It's ridiculous frustrating to play solo in open world, at least on EU Pc. Console and NA might be a bit easier (from what I saw in videos and from my experience on fighting NA people on PTS) but I'm sure that open world solo play will be dead in a few months on other platforms as well.

Ariades_swe · November 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Stamina classes so underwhelming that, they consist most of the solo and small scale groups. Yup sounds super underwhelming to me. ~sarcasm~

Give me a break with this stamina is underpowered stuff. Properly stamina builds are so far from underpowered that they have far better success in solo and small scale engagements with others and even zergs.

Yeah I'm so bad that I did compete with streamers and tournament winners in duels, try harder next time.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Don't get confused by 1v2 and 2v1, I did write it clear
Stamblade would be ok if Shade and Cloak wouldn't be a bug competition. With both skills in such a terrible state the class is just garbage as well (same as most magblade builds imo).

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Stam classes are fine. I like my build and I fight against other Stam classes other than NB that are really good too. Lots of really good tough builds, all styles.

You can always be fine, just not against good magicka opponents. I haven't met a stamclass since CWC which I couldn't beat (maybe some troll stamwarden builds with teddy pet slotted).

Yeah I meant 1v2 obviously...I changed it for people that failed to see it's a typo.
Now can you name a magicka class that can reliably 1v2 good players?

I said no class can win a 1v2 against 2 people who aren't fully potatoes? So why even care about that scenario?

ak_pvp wrote: »

Generally agree that stamina took some Ls recently with med armour being bad, (The passives are awful, sneak buffs, wow so helpful...) all the undodgable crap and mag outclassing nearly every group effect a stam class can do, stam has its ups.

The nerfs:
"Literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard."
Shuffle was fair, but should have had some recomp.

Redguard nerfs are stupid, just look at argonians.

Vitality pots were the tank crutch and ended that mess.

Healing CP affects everyone.

Unchained: In practice I don't think (Correct me if wrong) its super a massive nerf, after break free 3s gave time for 2 abilities due to GCDs. Now its one for 5s, but can be reapplied sooner. I didn't think it was necessary nerfing, was unique and a good CP passive affecting timing.

Proc sets were cancer, skoria is still strong but has its many limits. As for selenes vs shadowrend. Wut. The cloak reveal is bad, but 15k selene drops were mad.

The pros:
Mobility: Stam still has FM, better than mist by a mile, though the lack of burst healing sucks. Spd/stm/imv pots amaze.

Generally has higher burst damage.

Better sets: 7th legion exists, the best set for outnumbered PvP. Bonerpirate, WW hide, Fury+ravager are good too without counterpart. This meaning stam has more prevalence in 1vX scenarios.

Stamplar, stamwarden (definitely) and stamNB (Depending, if not bugged af,) are all strong and definitely viable options. SDK and Stamsorc do well in their niche but definitely need love since the classes were thought of as essentially mag.

(SDK doesn't make sense, tanky beserker playstyle so dots aren't useful, ZOS actively punishing block/tanky/1vx mechanics)

I don't think any class is good 1vX anymore tbh, unless it's a sorc or nightblade (well... not anymore, RIP Shadow Image) because other classes have zero defense against zergs. It's ridiculous frustrating to play solo in open world, at least on EU Pc. Console and NA might be a bit easier (from what I saw in videos and from my experience on fighting NA people on PTS) but I'm sure that open world solo play will be dead in a few months on other platforms as well.

What they do to shadow image this patch?

rimmidimdim · November 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With 3.2K recovery do you still have enough weapon damage to burst?

3,3k weapondamage and 39k stamina.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamina defense is so ridiculous weak compared to everything that magicka has to offer. I run out of stamina against any proper magicka build with 3,2k stamina regen (full buffed) + siphoning strikes and a decent amount of magicka sustain on top of that. Healing isn't enough on a stamina build (hot relying builds are not viable against Defile and pressure, period) to stand up against pressure and dots, dodgeroll has too many counters and if you go tanky enough you won't kill any decent player (the worst case for the opponent mag player would be that the stam player somehow can survive).

Yes, stamina was overperforming once, I won't argue with that at all, but literally everything which was strong was nerfed into the ground: Vitality pots, healing CP, Unchained, Proc Sets (only stamina based proc sets lol), Shuffle, Redguard while magicka got buffs and insanely strong sets like Shadowrend (which is stronger than Selene ever was), Skoria, Riposte and so good spammable defense skills like shields or instant healing. In the end stamina can't compete anymore (pug stomping still works, if you enjoy to capture a ressource and farm unexperienced players there - I for myself never enjoyed that). Medium armor is outright garbage in PvP and heavy armor on stamina is even more garbage now - called it.

Stamblade and Stamwarden is arguably stronger than most magicka specs in solo open world with the latter being better at small scale as well. Eu is basically flooded with stamblades and stamdens atm.

Stamblade is close to unplayable with all the Shade and Cloak bugs. Taking Warden as benchmark for stamina is hilarious biased, the other three stam classes are nerfed to a point there it's not even funny, you can just uninstall and cry (especially stamina Dk - but yeah, I still see *** complaining about them).
I don't give a damn about your "solo open world" nonsense, you can't balance around open world, period. Even a 1vs2 is impossible to win if your opponents aren't full potatoes and people who can't handle a 2vs1 need to adapt, we can't nerf stamina even further.

Man... I'm playing stamina by myself since release and it has never felt as weak as now (except for the time before 1.6).

Tell me a class that can reliably win 2v1 against good players? Running away doesn't count...
My stamblade is way better than my magdk or magplar in outnumbered situations.
If we talk in bgs I agree there's better classes than stamblades.

Don't get confused by 1v2 and 2v1, I did write it clear
Stamblade would be ok if Shade and Cloak wouldn't be a bug competition. With both skills in such a terrible state the class is just garbage as well (same as most magblade builds imo).

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Stam classes are fine. I like my build and I fight against other Stam classes other than NB that are really good too. Lots of really good tough builds, all styles.

You can always be fine, just not against good magicka opponents. I haven't met a stamclass since CWC which I couldn't beat (maybe some troll stamwarden builds with teddy pet slotted).

I disagree, I think I can make a good fight with all magika opponents. At least in open world where your build is for open world. And I think I have fought really good mag players. Duels, maybe you have a point but still, I believe I make a statement for Stam players, and I think I have seen other Stam players that can same same statement. I have played against other Stam players that will kick my ass and I can't see them being bad because they are Stam. Cheers

Morgul667 · November 2017

I believe We stamina are fine at this patch

Seriously

Joy_Division · November 2017

L2P

Torbschka · November 2017

Stamina is weak that patch, even more funny because OP is stam NB.. I guess he lost 1 duel and made this thread lol

DHale · November 2017

There are no one v xers in pvp that run magic... periods. Stam is king in pve and pvp if you are properly geared.

FloppyTouch · November 2017

Just bc they finally balance some stam abilities does not mean stam is dead. Stam was way over preforming before you feel weak bc now ur in line with the other classes magic and stam. I feel the game is getting closer to balance then it ever was.

People can argue that stam is still the best for ST dps in pve and really even with magic classes in pvp. Try to cc more most magic classes can only break free a few times before they are dead.

The only stam class I feel weak in pvp when I play it is my stam dk. With the stamblade and the new 2 handed AS wep I can spam an ult,

Morgul667 · November 2017

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Just bc they finally balance some stam abilities does not mean stam is dead. Stam was way over preforming before you feel weak bc now ur in line with the other classes magic and stam. I feel the game is getting closer to balance then it ever was.

People can argue that stam is still the best for ST dps in pve and really even with magic classes in pvp. Try to cc more most magic classes can only break free a few times before they are dead.

The only stam class I feel weak in pvp when I play it is my stam dk. With the stamblade and the new 2 handed AS wep I can spam an ult,

Agree with that

CyrusArya · November 2017

As someone who primarily plays stamina classes these days, my experience is completely different from yours. In duels, bgs, solo, and small scale....totally different perspective. I know there is variance between the NA and EU metas, but it really can’t be that drastic.

I mean....yes stamina is very weak. Please buff.

DDuke · November 2017

The top meta Fury+Legion builds were flat out nerfed, I don't think there's any question to that.

The other builds didn't change much though, and all medium builds still lack survivability compared to magicka builds (or damage, if they use something like Impregnable or Brass to offset survivability issues), unless they run S&B.

So yeah, if you look at the (previous) top meta stam builds only, then this patch was a nerf to stamina. Remains to be seen if people can come up with something new that's equally strong/stronger than previous patch's stam meta.

On the bright side, bow builds are playable atleast now, as long as you're fighting no Miat users.

arkansas_ESO · November 2017

I'm getting 5.4k weapon damage with 1700 recovery in 5 heavy on my stamblade, I don't feel weak at all.

Valencer · November 2017

Don't PvP much anymore, but my impression is that stamina is good IF your class can survive in medium armour (so you can run rally + shuffle) OR has access to a class-based burst heal (so you can run forward momentum + heavy).

Basically only nightblades and wardens can keep up now.

Ragnaroek93 · November 2017

Rating stamina Nb still as top tier stam class when Surprise Attack, Shade and Cloak aren't working as intended (if they would work, they would be better than poor stamplars, stamdks and stamsorcs tho) shows some deep understanding of game mechanics

Let stamina players play with fists only and you will probably still find a reason why you want to nerf them even more.

Maulkin · November 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Rating stamina Nb still as top tier stam class when Surprise Attack, Shade and Cloak aren't working as intended (if they would work, they would be better than poor stamplars, stamdks and stamsorcs tho) shows some deep understanding of game mechanics Let stamina players play with fists only and you will probably still find a reason why you want to nerf them even more.

Actually stamblade being one of the top builds despite the bugs shows how very strong they are, if anything. Two of the 4 people I play with in PC EU have a StamBlade (one in heavy, one in medium) and they are both melting faces in the BGs. One is also a top duellist with his stamblade.

StamBlades, StamDens and MagSorcs are generally the kings of all round versatility. They have mobility, burst and a certain sort of tankiness that comes from different skills and passives in each class.

Ragnaroek93 · November 2017

Maulkin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Rating stamina Nb still as top tier stam class when Surprise Attack, Shade and Cloak aren't working as intended (if they would work, they would be better than poor stamplars, stamdks and stamsorcs tho) shows some deep understanding of game mechanics Let stamina players play with fists only and you will probably still find a reason why you want to nerf them even more.

Actually stamblade being one of the top builds despite the bugs shows how very strong they are, if anything. Two of the 4 people I play with in PC EU have a StamBlade (one in heavy, one in medium) and they are both melting faces in the BGs. One is also a top duellist with his stamblade.

StamBlades, StamDens and MagSorcs are generally the kings of all round versatility. They have mobility, burst and a certain sort of tankiness that comes from different skills and passives in each class.

Oh ***, there are stamblades who still win fights. Better not fix bugs and nerf them more instead...