After playing WW and Vamp on the same character...

PS4_ZeColmeia · November 2017

I think both could use some tweaks. I play as a NB since PS4 launch, got 354 skill points and play all of the roles on this character. The only reason that is pertinent to this conversation is I can tweak my build significantly to try and play quite a few different approaches to these skill lines. I like both of these skill lines a lot but I think an alternate mode of play on Vamp and some tweaks to WW would make them very solid choices.

Vamp
Vamp in and of itself is very powerful and is the usual mode I play in. I actually don't think changing Vamps is needed, but I do think they offer a path to an alternate path of play. In the CWC update, ZOS demonstrated that they can make skills cost hp with the changes to Agony with NB. This shows the path I've been asking for forever with Vamp: Blood sacrifice Vamp, lich, whatever you want to call it. Basically I would like to have vamp create a way to play through health as a resource.

To do this, we will modify savage feeding as I don't know one person that actually uses this (so many more useful allocations of skill points)
- The first rank will change your vampire skills to cost health and will add another rank to unnatural resistance (you still have to spend another skill point to use this new rank)
- The second rank will change all of your skills (weapons, class) to cost health to cast, all vampire passives work at all stages, and all health costs are governed by vamp stage
  - What this does is give a trade off, in higher stages your skills cost less health but lower stages have less negatives

Vamps also need a little visual animation when they lose or gain vampire stage, maybe a quick bat summon animation?

Werewolf
The biggest problem with werewolf is it's inability to stay in WW nearly indefinitely. This essentially creates a situation where although WW have the ability to choose when they are going to have their negatives, unlike vamps which have to manage it via feedings/bloody mara, they can't stay in this form and deal with those negatives easily. Feeding, which you have to do waaaaay too often which is a drain on extended DPS, and there are too "can't do's" that don't let you do other roles or really support group play.

WW needs to be able to rez in form (make it a howl animation), this will make WW usable in end game content.
Feral pounce should work at 0 distance but now instead of adding time to WW form, it is now a taunt (now WW is good for tanks and DPS)
WW should function like overcharge whereas the ultimate decreases via time instead of skill usage and devour/damage incurred add ultimate per the WW passives. This will let WW know where they are on form going away and give some value to maxing out ultimate before going into form
Rez should pause the timer for WW form or give back the ultimate for a standard time rez (so you actually gain time if you take rez passive or krag's
WW should be able to turn into a mount. During what would be a mount animation, WW should grow in size so the hitbox is the same as other players (keep it fair). During this time WW cannot attack and have to dismount (shrink back to normal size) to use their attack skills. This should pause the timer so that WW can now travel with their PvP groups without having to drop form and lose all ultimate/time in WW form.

The idea here is that WW should not be relegated to novelty, which IMHO, is why WW is used less than Vamp (well asides from the Ultimate slot but I still don't think that is that major). The gameplay issues around mounting and rez'ing are the #1 reason not to be WW in endgame PvE, and PvP. The lack of taunt keeps WW from being useful for anything but DPS, and again DPS is the role that is supposed to do all pick ups which is why it sucks even as a DPS role. Making the WW ultimate function more like overcharge, which is very very similar from a bar funcionality standpoint, would go a long way to making WW know when to focus on devouring to get more time in form and when they can go about doing damage.

So question: What do you think of the suggestions?

Qbiken · November 2017

I'd suggest something else...

I think vampire is quite balanced at the moment. Sure, the pros weights more than the cons but it´s no OP advantages vampire gets. IF anything were to be changed it would be the undeath passive (but that´s a big IF)

Regarding werewolf I´ve a lot of suggestions (I will speak mostly from a PvP perspective, where WW´s shine the most)

* Werewolf-form
A while ago it was possible to stay permanently in WW-form if you were in a group of 4-5 (can´t remember the exact number) WW´s. ZOS removed this for whatever reason. I would like to see ZOS revert this change to encourage WW group play. Another suggestion would be to make it possible to gain ultimate in WW-form, then there´s no need to revert the changes to "permawolf".

*Taunt
WW´s are tanky because they get extra physical and spell resistance from their ultimate, however, I don´t think WW´s need a taunting ability, but that´s just a personal preference. IF (and a big IF) a taunt to WW were to be added, it would be cool if the other morph of Fear was an AoE taunt (I´m in general against AoE taunts in ESO, but for WW it would be cool). One morph gives major brutality and Fears nearby targets, and the other morph gives major brutality but taunts nearby enemies.¨

*Mountspeed
WW´s already have major expedition speed when they sprint so I don´t think changes to WW there are necessary. However, I would like to see reduced effectiveness of snares to WW´s (add this to their passives)

* Make heavy attacks in WW-form apply bleed as well

* The WW-heal
If you use a Pelinial-build the heal is extremely good, but if you don´t the heal is not very useful. And also the choice of which morph to pick is a no-brainer at the moment. Hircine´s Rage is so much better since the heal over time from Hircine´s Fortitude is so low it´s almost a joke. I would like Hircine´s Fortitude completely remade: Make is so that Hircine´s Fortitude removes X amount of negative effects of you, and reduce the effectiveness of further negative effects applied to you (yes, it´s a WW-version of purge). So when you pick the morph you either go for more damage and burst heal (Hircine´s Rage) or surviveability and tankiness (Hircine´s Fortitude).

*Piercing Howl
Why the (snip) is this skill considered an projectile? Make change this skill so it can´t be reflected by wings, shimmering shield, posture etc....Doesn´t make sense that it´s considered a projectile......

PS4_ZeColmeia · November 2017

Love the ideas, it will make these playstyles much more fun and the game more interesting!

Qbiken wrote: »

I think vampire is quite balanced at the moment. Sure, the pros weights more than the cons but it´s no OP advantages vampire gets. IF anything were to be changed it would be the undeath passive (but that´s a big IF)

Regarding werewolf I´ve a lot of suggestions (I will speak mostly from a PvP perspective, where WW´s shine the most)

* Werewolf-form
A while ago it was possible to stay permanently in WW-form if you were in a group of 4-5 (can´t remember the exact number) WW´s. ZOS removed this for whatever reason. I would like to see ZOS revert this change to encourage WW group play. Another suggestion would be to make it possible to gain ultimate in WW-form, then there´s no need to revert the changes to "permawolf".

*Taunt
WW´s are tanky because they get extra physical and spell resistance from their ultimate, however, I don´t think WW´s need a taunting ability, but that´s just a personal preference. IF (and a big IF) a taunt to WW were to be added, it would be cool if the other morph of Fear was an AoE taunt (I´m in general against AoE taunts in ESO, but for WW it would be cool). One morph gives major brutality and Fears nearby targets, and the other morph gives major brutality but taunts nearby enemies.¨

*Mountspeed
WW´s already have major expedition speed when they sprint so I don´t think changes to WW there are necessary. However, I would like to see reduced effectiveness of snares to WW´s (add this to their passives)

* Make heavy attacks in WW-form apply bleed as well

* The WW-heal
If you use a Pelinial-build the heal is extremely good, but if you don´t the heal is not very useful. And also the choice of which morph to pick is a no-brainer at the moment. Hircine´s Rage is so much better since the heal over time from Hircine´s Fortitude is so low it´s almost a joke. I would like Hircine´s Fortitude completely remade: Make is so that Hircine´s Fortitude removes X amount of negative effects of you, and reduce the effectiveness of further negative effects applied to you (yes, it´s a WW-version of purge). So when you pick the morph you either go for more damage and burst heal (Hircine´s Rage) or surviveability and tankiness (Hircine´s Fortitude).

*Piercing Howl
Why the (snip) is this skill considered an projectile? Make change this skill so it can´t be reflected by wings, shimmering shield, posture etc....Doesn´t make sense that it´s considered a projectile......

Only thing I disagree with is the major expedition comment. When I vamp + retreating maneuver + concealed weapon I run as fast as a speed 30 mount. There is 0 reason that a WW shouldn't be able to keep up with his group in keep runs without losing form.

I don't disagree with major expedition with sprint, I'm just saying it's not effective to keep up with a mounted group so the only recourse is to drop form and mount. That is a significant downside to WW form especially since it means you are at 0 ultimate at the start of the fight with no method to go back in form until the fight is already significantly underway.

The Elder Scrolls Online

After playing WW and Vamp on the same character...

After playing WW and Vamp on the same character... 12 votes