[PVP]Stamina Dragonknight is on the verge of death, Its time to stop the ignorance ZOS.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

Soooo... Allright,

In the past two months I realized there isn't any stamDk left in the forums to give actual, constructive feedback about why this class suddenly became so much weaker, to the point all the mains are moving away from it. The situation is bad. Really bad. Obviously both the ignorant noobs and zos are to blame on this topic.
yet before moving away from this game, I want to be positive to them for the first and probably the last time.

Im especially writing this now because the block changes can actually kill this class for real this time.
Its weak beyond reasoning. I would like to hear an answer from ZOS. What is your goal with stamDk? You want it to be a tank only class?
If thats the case can we have actual utility as a class?

StamDK are supposed to be the sustained dps fighters who should survive a bit longer than a stamsorc or stamblade, which is not the case anymore.
Battle roar/helping hands used to make us shine at the ''in your face'' play style.

StamDK didnt had to streak/cloak away to recover himself and in return It lacked mobility, lacked burst.
lacked freedom of choice ,so that we could face 2-3 people and fight longer than any other class. That was the stamDk a year ago. It saw nothing but nerfs since then.

Battle roar itself is both a blessing and a curse. It gives sustain, but It also forces you to spam your ult as soon as Its up.If you don't ult, you are wasting your sustain.
Guess it doesnt matter anymore. Its weak now.

Now ZOS took what we had going for us, but refused to give us anything else in return.

Add that with all the indirect meta nerfs and Its not a suprise the class is dead.

So the shuffle from HA is gone, with that you might expect people to run medium stamDk, but you forget that out of all the classes stamDk has the WORST burst potential.
and the WORST tools to be a burst build, WORST mobility aswell. medium armor and stamDK has ZERO synergies.

SO we are still forced into heavy armor/SnB/2h builds because we lack:

1. a gapcloser
2. stamina scaling on passives.( old battle roar/helping hands rewarded you for building offensive stats, that also made it harder for mDK/tankDk to permablock since they dont build stamina.)
3. any defence over range (wings costs insane, GDB costs insane while not scaling with stamina,igneous shield nerfed to 3 seconds which broke Its synergy with vigor,not to mention now you need double the magicka/GCD to get the same heals,SO It also makes you lose time too)

4.a real burst heal ( green dragon blood is obviously meant for pure tanks,Its so horrible 3 seconds of major mending from igneous shield has better value for me as a heal)
5. an execute (Why do we lack this again? I understand mobility but why can't I have a dot based execute?)
6. any kind of mobility/snare immunity
7. a spammable, or any real burst potential, which hurts the most, stamDk always hits less than other stam classes.
8.any real game changers like dark deal/streak/cloak/purge etc.. makes us predictable,boring, easy to play around.

So our ''sustained fighter'' goes into a fight, drops his dots on enemies only for them to streak/cloak/purge/shield whenever they please.
Previously that wasnt a problem because stamDk had much better stamina sustain. Battle roar/helping hands/adrenaline rush allowed stamDk to keep fighting.
Now Its not the case anymore.
All those things are nerfed with ZERO compensation..

Instead of solving permablock which exists purely because of CP and shield play enchants,

You kept nerfing DK again and again and again.

StamDk is no longer the ''in your face'' class as a result.

Now that you are solving the ''permablock issue'', Its time to revert some of those nerfs. maybe give us new stam morphs to play with.
Anything really.

The message is clear, we know balancing an MMO is hard, Its okay to make mistakes, Its not okay to ignore those who got affected by your mistakes.

So I ask again,

What is your end goal with stamDK, Will you actually compensate us after a year ZOS?

charley222 · November 2017

my opinion and opinion of other they just dont have talent to fix these issue
i think after 3 or 4year the game is release that start to be more and more obvious sad because so many other aspect of the game really improve and are great but balance and Mechanics really struggle

ak_pvp · November 2017

I like the way SDK plays, but holy hell is it restrictive. The beserker style is great but damn is it a one trick pony.

An execute is needed. No doubt about it. DK is the slow sustainy class not a potato. There is no reason this is should be a thing. I vote a weaker implosion with giving sorcs a dot proc to maintain dps. (Cremate/toxify)

Snare+immunity removal on plate morph of wings. Both morphs should be 4 projectiles per person, and reflect/deflect more. DK shouldn't have speed, its not a speedy class. It shouldn't also be slown to potatao level, it should be unstoppable force style.

Revert battle roar.

Give stamDK a poiosn morph of eruption with a miss chance when enemies in it, and a dodge chance with the DK in it.

Open chains slot for a new stamDK ability.

Make stonefist the new pull. Give it an initial CC of 1.5s and if the CC isn't broken, then it pulls without immunity. If the CC is broken it doesn't pull and grants immunity. (I did the maths nothing changes for pve.) Any height, even off keeps. Would give DKs unique group utility (Everything else is shared) and attacks against ranged. OPTIONAL: Make like foo and have it cost mag but scale like stam. Would benefit pve tanks and PvP StamDKs.

Jjitsuboy98 · November 2017

I was running my hulking, ravager , selene dueling setup last night and was having problems with not having a burst heal. U need forward for snare immunity. Sustain as a Redguard is weak and I'm running an infused stamina drain glyph. Burst damage is very weak. Not very exciting to play.

NobleX35 · November 2017

I think DK's just need a complete overhaul in general. Almost every single skill needs to be reevaluated and most passives could use some adjusting or replacing as well. I'll run through all the skills and the changes I think should potentially be made.

Ardent Flame

Dragonknight Standard - This ability should have it's cost reverted to 200
- Shifting Standard - This morph should cost 150
- Standard of Might - This morph is fine as is, but should cost 200
Lava Whip
- Molten Whip - This morph should convert to a stamina ability and scale off stamina and weapon damage. It should also provide some other benefit instead of the weapon/spell damage (I've read a lot of suggestions saying minor heroism before which would probably be perfect)
- Flame Lash - Unchanged
Searing Strike
- Venemous Claw - Unchanged
- Burning Embers - Unchanged
Fiery Breath
- Noxious Breath - Unchanged
- Engulfing Flames - Unchanged
Fiery Grip - Make this skill less buggy in general and adjust the height restriction some in cyrodiil
- Empowering Chains - Unchanged (maybe make it a stamina morph)
- Unrelenting Grip - Unchanged
Inferno - Completely overhaul this skill (again), maybe make it some sort of execute ability

Combustion - This passive was recently nerfed, but it has always seemed pretty underwhelming to me. It should probably be asjusted or replaced.
Warmth - Increase the duration to 10 seconds
Searing Heat - Unchanged
World in Ruin - Replace completely or buff, because it's fairly underwhelming as well.

Draconic Power

Dragon Leap
- Take Flight - Unchanged
- Ferocious Leap - Unchanged
Spiked Armor
- Hardened Armor - Unchanged
- Volatile Armor - Unchanged
Dark Talons
- Burning Talons - Unchanged
- Choking Talons - Unchanged
Dragon Blood
- Green Dragon Blood - Scale off max stamina and provide a different bonus other than major endurance. Maybe make is a flat 10-15% stamina recovery bonus so that it can stack with major and minor endurance
- Coagulated Blood - Unchanged
Reflective Scales
- Reflective Plate - Instead of providing minor ward, change to removes all snares and grants snare immunity for a short time (This was suggested in this post by @ak_pvp and it makes a lot of sense)
- Dragon Fire Scale - Unchanged
Inhale - I haven't used this skill enough to be able to provide any sort of reasonable suggestion
- Deep Breath - Unchanged
- Draw Essence - Unchanged

Iron Skin - Unchanged
Burning Heart - Unchanged
Elder Dragon - Very underwhelming unless your going for a full health recovery build, should probably just be replaced with something more widely useful.
Scaled Armor - Unchanged

Earthen Heart

Magma Armor - This ultimate and it's morphs should cost less (maybe 150)
- Magma Shell - This morph should provide something other than just a synergy option (maybe increased duration)
- Corrosive Armor - Unchanged (other than cost reduced)
Stonefist
- Obsidian Shard - This morph should convert to a stamina ability and scale off stamina and weapon damage. It should also provide some other benefit instead of healing an ally.
- Stone Giant - Unchanged
Molten Weapons - This ability should probably provide both major brutality and major sorcery from the start.
- Igneous Weapons - If major brutality is part of the base skill, then this ability should have some other bonus that would be beneficial to stamina users. (No suggestions immediately come to mind)
- Molten Armaments - Unchanged (other than also granting major brutality as part of the base ability)
Obsidian Shield
- Igneous Shield - Revert the duration nerf to major mending
- Fragmented Shield - Change the name and make it provide a different benefit (maybe increased strength or provide minor protection)
Petrify
- Fossilize - Unchanged
- Shattering Rocks - Make more appealing (maybe increase the damage suffered when effect ends)
Ash Cloud - Haven't used this ability or it's morphs since it lost miss chance, so I have no idea how to make it any better. (maybe increase the radius for starters)

Eternal Mountain - Unchanged
Battle Roar - Increase the amount returned by 50-100%
Mountains Blessing - Maybe also provide minor sorcery
Helping Hands - Increase the amount of stamina returned (maybe double it at least)

DK's, particularly stamDK's, definitely need some help right now. We've received so many nerfs, both direct and indirect, over the last few months and have not received anything to help counter those nerfs.

ToRelax · November 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

I like the way SDK plays, but holy hell is it restrictive. The beserker style is great but damn is it a one trick pony.

An execute is needed. No doubt about it. DK is the slow sustainy class not a potato. There is no reason this is should be a thing. I vote a weaker implosion with giving sorcs a dot proc to maintain dps. (Cremate/toxify)

Snare+immunity removal on plate morph of wings. Both morphs should be 4 projectiles per person, and reflect/deflect more. DK shouldn't have speed, its not a speedy class. It shouldn't also be slown to potatao level, it should be unstoppable force style.

Revert battle roar.

Give stamDK a poiosn morph of eruption with a miss chance when enemies in it, and a dodge chance with the DK in it.

Open chains slot for a new stamDK ability.

Make stonefist the new pull. Give it an initial CC of 1.5s and if the CC isn't broken, then it pulls without immunity. If the CC is broken it doesn't pull and grants immunity. (I did the maths nothing changes for pve.) Any height, even off keeps. Would give DKs unique group utility (Everything else is shared) and attacks against ranged. OPTIONAL: Make like foo and have it cost mag but scale like stam. Would benefit pve tanks and PvP StamDKs.

A random execute that doesn't proc in most cases wouldn't really help. Better replace Implosion with something else.

Betsararie · November 2017

1. a gapcloser
> has stampede

3. any defence over range
>makes use of heavy armor cheese

5. an execute
>runs reverse slice but refuses to acknowledge its existence

8.any real game changers
>arguably the hardest class to kill in the game, no less than top 2

Just ridculous arguments all around. DK is intended to be tanky. You have that.

If you want to be a bursty high damage DPS type, roll another class. There's no reason you should have it all like is being suggested.

AAbrigo · November 2017

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

1. a gapcloser
> has stampede

3. any defence over range
>makes use of heavy armor cheese

5. an execute
>runs reverse slice but refuses to acknowledge its existence

8.any real game changers
>arguably the hardest class to kill in the game, no less than top 2

Just ridculous arguments all around. DK is intended to be tanky. You have that.

If you want to be a bursty high damage DPS type, roll another class. There's no reason you should have it all like is being suggested.

I think you didn't read what I said properly,

Read it again:

we are still forced into heavy armor/SnB/2h builds

See the point now?

A stamsorc/stamplar/stamden has the luxury to build for DW, medium armor,bow..
Guess what?
They can also build in heavy armor just fine. Truth is that ''HA cheese'' exists for everyone.
I don't use heavy armor because Its the best of the best.
I use heavy armor because medium is not an option for us.

So you keep claiming how op blood spawn is, fury is, stamDK is, Why don't you go ahead and play one yourself?

IF you do ,which I Doubt; you will realize that your success totally depends on your opponents and their game sense and you have almost zero impact over who wins the fights. You're just there to improve the scenery.

PS:And before that pug comes here, medium fortified brass is a garbage tier setup.(just like how armor master was)
Please don't come to me with that bs, please. Im not interested in pug builds.

Brutusmax1mus · November 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Waffennacht · November 2017

I thought it was a really well laid out post. With the strongest argument being, reasons for previous nerfs have been altered therefore the accompanying nerfs should change too. I think that's solid reasoning.

Lexxypwns · November 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Dude, if you want a good stam DK build I'll share it with you. @Thogard and I both run a variant of it.

Mine is 5 7th legion 5 Fury 2 Slime Double SnB. Once you farm that, you just reroll stamden

Brutusmax1mus · November 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

I never said high burst, i said good. Good burst with sustained damage damage. Got outstanding sustain. Its definitely not overkill though. I don't hold bock bc its broken as hell and cheap play. I chose dk for the 40% increased heavy attack damage, the sustained dps that includes fracture (stam sorcs don't have fracture, don't neglect that), the outstanding magicka support skills that don't impact my sustain but actually improves it. Its just one of my 14 characters so i play it every now and then, but i do fine.

Perma blocking is detrimental to this game. It'll be fixed hopefully soon.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

I thought it was a really well laid out post. With the strongest argument being, reasons for previous nerfs have been altered therefore the accompanying nerfs should change too. I think that's solid reasoning.

To be honest I'm not a man of words.
I played stamDK when It was [snip], and when it was the [snip]

Call me a goat but I just Reject to play a stamden because zos wants me to.
So Im here with this post instead.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Dude, if you want a good stam DK build I'll share it with you. @Thogard and I both run a variant of it.

Mine is 5 7th legion 5 Fury 2 Slime Double SnB. Once you farm that, you just reroll stamden

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that

I do not need a build , as Im aware of whats meta in stamDk.

I do also play in PC-EU, you can reach me with @ensar492, that is, if you catch me online,
We can discuss builds all you want.

But Im really not into a tank build that will be ignored in open world.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Betsararie · November 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I thought it was a really well laid out post. With the strongest argument being, reasons for previous nerfs have been altered therefore the accompanying nerfs should change too. I think that's solid reasoning.

To be honest I'm not a man of words.
I played stamDK when It was [snip], and when it was the [snip]

Call me a goat but I just Reject to play a stamden because zos wants me to.
So Im here with this post instead.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Dude, if you want a good stam DK build I'll share it with you. @Thogard and I both run a variant of it.

Mine is 5 7th legion 5 Fury 2 Slime Double SnB. Once you farm that, you just reroll stamden

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that

I do not need a build , as Im aware of whats meta in stamDk.

I do also play in PC-EU, you can reach me with @ensar492, that is, if you catch me online,
We can discuss builds all you want.

But Im really not into a tank build that will be ignored in open world.

>not into cancer tank builds yet plays DK

That right there is your answer. That is where I feel the reasoning in this thread falls short.

The entire play style of DK is centered around running heavy armor meta (fury, 7th legion) and building for tankiness, while also having your weapon damage tick up to ridiculous levels. You better believe people will ignore you, because it's pure cancer. But the playstyle is alive and well, and highly viable.

It's true that running the same setup on Warden is literally better in every way. Right now wardens are a superior class. So I would have to recommend to roll Warden because they are better. 11k birds are a reality and it is OP.

But that doesn't mean stam dk isn't still viable within that playstyle. It is.

I would suggest you rethink wanting to play a bursty-high damage (glass cannonish?) type build and instead play the DK class in the most advantageous way possible that is suited for the class.

[Edited for quote]

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

I never said high burst, i said good. Good burst with sustained damage damage. Got outstanding sustain. Its definitely not overkill though. I don't hold bock bc its broken as hell and cheap play. I chose dk for the 40% increased heavy attack damage, the sustained dps that includes fracture (stam sorcs don't have fracture, don't neglect that), the outstanding magicka support skills that don't impact my sustain but actually improves it. Its just one of my 14 characters so i play it every now and then, but i do fine.

Perma blocking is detrimental to this game. It'll be fixed hopefully soon.

I agree permablock is a broken mechanic.
Its not any worse than cloak spam, dodge roll spam, bird spam, shield spam..

Blanco wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I thought it was a really well laid out post. With the strongest argument being, reasons for previous nerfs have been altered therefore the accompanying nerfs should change too. I think that's solid reasoning.

To be honest I'm not a man of words.
I played stamDK when It was sh*t, and when it was the sh*t

Call me a goat but I just Reject to play a stamden because zos wants me to.
So Im here with this post instead.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Dude, if you want a good stam DK build I'll share it with you. @Thogard and I both run a variant of it.

Mine is 5 7th legion 5 Fury 2 Slime Double SnB. Once you farm that, you just reroll stamden

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that

I do not need a build , as Im aware of whats meta in stamDk.

I do also play in PC-EU, you can reach me with @ensar492, that is, if you catch me online,
We can discuss builds all you want.

But Im really not into a tank build that will be ignored in open world.

>not into cancer tank builds yet plays DK

That right there is your answer. That is where I feel the reasoning in this thread falls short.

The entire play style of DK is centered around running heavy armor meta (fury, 7th legion) and building for tankiness, while also having your weapon damage tick up to ridiculous levels. You better believe people will ignore you, because it's pure cancer. But the playstyle is alive and well, and highly viable.

It's true that running the same setup on Warden is literally better in every way. Right now wardens are a superior class. So I would have to recommend to roll Warden because they are better. 11k birds are a reality and it is OP.

But that doesn't mean stam dk isn't still viable within that playstyle. It is.

I would suggest you rethink wanting to play a bursty-high damage (glass cannonish?) type build and instead play the DK class in the most advantageous way possible that is suited for the class.

Obvious bias is obvious.
Its kind of funny being told how to play my main class.
And getting called cancer by a sorc main.

Lexxypwns · November 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I thought it was a really well laid out post. With the strongest argument being, reasons for previous nerfs have been altered therefore the accompanying nerfs should change too. I think that's solid reasoning.

To be honest I'm not a man of words.
I played stamDK when It was [snip], and when it was the [snip]

Call me a goat but I just Reject to play a stamden because zos wants me to.
So Im here with this post instead.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Dude, if you want a good stam DK build I'll share it with you. @Thogard and I both run a variant of it.

Mine is 5 7th legion 5 Fury 2 Slime Double SnB. Once you farm that, you just reroll stamden

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that

I do not need a build , as Im aware of whats meta in stamDk.

I do also play in PC-EU, you can reach me with @ensar492, that is, if you catch me online,
We can discuss builds all you want.

But Im really not into a tank build that will be ignored in open world.

Wow, you really are butt hurt about this, didn't even notice the obvious joke

[Edited for quote]

Thogard · November 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Dude, if you want a good stam DK build I'll share it with you. @Thogard and I both run a variant of it.

Mine is 5 7th legion 5 Fury 2 Slime Double SnB. Once you farm that, you just reroll stamden

Yeah man that build is OP as ***. I really like how my stamden skills have great synergies with themselves. best way to play a DK IMO.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I thought it was a really well laid out post. With the strongest argument being, reasons for previous nerfs have been altered therefore the accompanying nerfs should change too. I think that's solid reasoning.

To be honest I'm not a man of words.
I played stamDK when It was [snip], and when it was the [snip]

Call me a goat but I just Reject to play a stamden because zos wants me to.
So Im here with this post instead.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Dude, if you want a good stam DK build I'll share it with you. @Thogard and I both run a variant of it.

Mine is 5 7th legion 5 Fury 2 Slime Double SnB. Once you farm that, you just reroll stamden

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that

I do not need a build , as Im aware of whats meta in stamDk.

I do also play in PC-EU, you can reach me with @ensar492, that is, if you catch me online,
We can discuss builds all you want.

But Im really not into a tank build that will be ignored in open world.

I think you missed the joke bro.

[Edited for quote]

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I thought it was a really well laid out post. With the strongest argument being, reasons for previous nerfs have been altered therefore the accompanying nerfs should change too. I think that's solid reasoning.

To be honest I'm not a man of words.
I played stamDK when It was sh*t, and when it was the sh*t

Call me a goat but I just Reject to play a stamden because zos wants me to.
So Im here with this post instead.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Dude, if you want a good stam DK build I'll share it with you. @Thogard and I both run a variant of it.

Mine is 5 7th legion 5 Fury 2 Slime Double SnB. Once you farm that, you just reroll stamden

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that

I do not need a build , as Im aware of whats meta in stamDk.

I do also play in PC-EU, you can reach me with @ensar492, that is, if you catch me online,
We can discuss builds all you want.

But Im really not into a tank build that will be ignored in open world.

Wow, you really are butt hurt about this, didn't even notice the obvious joke

I saw so many *** build suggestions I can't even say who is sarcastic anymore.

Betsararie · November 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

I never said high burst, i said good. Good burst with sustained damage damage. Got outstanding sustain. Its definitely not overkill though. I don't hold bock bc its broken as hell and cheap play. I chose dk for the 40% increased heavy attack damage, the sustained dps that includes fracture (stam sorcs don't have fracture, don't neglect that), the outstanding magicka support skills that don't impact my sustain but actually improves it. Its just one of my 14 characters so i play it every now and then, but i do fine.

Perma blocking is detrimental to this game. It'll be fixed hopefully soon.

I agree permablock is a broken mechanic.
Its not any worse than cloak spam, dodge roll spam, bird spam, shield spam..

Blanco wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I thought it was a really well laid out post. With the strongest argument being, reasons for previous nerfs have been altered therefore the accompanying nerfs should change too. I think that's solid reasoning.

To be honest I'm not a man of words.
I played stamDK when It was sh*t, and when it was the sh*t

Call me a goat but I just Reject to play a stamden because zos wants me to.
So Im here with this post instead.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Dude, if you want a good stam DK build I'll share it with you. @Thogard and I both run a variant of it.

Mine is 5 7th legion 5 Fury 2 Slime Double SnB. Once you farm that, you just reroll stamden

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that

I do not need a build , as Im aware of whats meta in stamDk.

I do also play in PC-EU, you can reach me with @ensar492, that is, if you catch me online,
We can discuss builds all you want.

But Im really not into a tank build that will be ignored in open world.

>not into cancer tank builds yet plays DK

That right there is your answer. That is where I feel the reasoning in this thread falls short.

The entire play style of DK is centered around running heavy armor meta (fury, 7th legion) and building for tankiness, while also having your weapon damage tick up to ridiculous levels. You better believe people will ignore you, because it's pure cancer. But the playstyle is alive and well, and highly viable.

It's true that running the same setup on Warden is literally better in every way. Right now wardens are a superior class. So I would have to recommend to roll Warden because they are better. 11k birds are a reality and it is OP.

But that doesn't mean stam dk isn't still viable within that playstyle. It is.

I would suggest you rethink wanting to play a bursty-high damage (glass cannonish?) type build and instead play the DK class in the most advantageous way possible that is suited for the class.

Obvious bias is obvious.
Its kind of funny being told how to play my main class.
And getting called cancer by a sorc main.

Well sorc is just such a good class that has soo much going for it, there's no reason not to play one. We're getting hit very bad by nerfs but we will adapt and overcome as long as it's possible.

But as far as DKs go, I know DKs who have gone 24 and 1 in BGs running fury and 7th, obliterating their competition with leap, blood spawn, and reverse slice. I have respect for DK players who are at that level, but I refuse to accept arguments of this nature regarding DK when they remain one of the tankiest classes.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

I never said high burst, i said good. Good burst with sustained damage damage. Got outstanding sustain. Its definitely not overkill though. I don't hold bock bc its broken as hell and cheap play. I chose dk for the 40% increased heavy attack damage, the sustained dps that includes fracture (stam sorcs don't have fracture, don't neglect that), the outstanding magicka support skills that don't impact my sustain but actually improves it. Its just one of my 14 characters so i play it every now and then, but i do fine.

Perma blocking is detrimental to this game. It'll be fixed hopefully soon.

I agree permablock is a broken mechanic.
Its not any worse than cloak spam, dodge roll spam, bird spam, shield spam..

Blanco wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I thought it was a really well laid out post. With the strongest argument being, reasons for previous nerfs have been altered therefore the accompanying nerfs should change too. I think that's solid reasoning.

To be honest I'm not a man of words.
I played stamDK when It was sh*t, and when it was the sh*t

Call me a goat but I just Reject to play a stamden because zos wants me to.
So Im here with this post instead.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

This thread is not here to talk about stamsorcs.
They have very strong tools,
Their only weakness is having to use dizzy swing.

AAbrigo wrote: »

Am I the only one laughing when I read this..

The only thing a stamdk lacks is mobility/sustain

Everything else is pretty much superior to a stam sorc..

Stamdk's are tankier, got the best ult, got stamina based attacks, better healing..

stamsorc is pretty much designed to get in, kill someone and get out.
And they have the best tools for that.

A typical stamsorc usually never builds any sustain, uses set combos like alchemist+spriggans , the more they build damage,
the more heals they get thanks to crit surge, and they can have insane stats thanks to bound armaments.
Streak is an unmatched mobility tool and a total game changer, on top of that they can have negate to provide utility to their groups.

So in the end a stamsorc has:
1.much higher burst overall
2.easy healing thanks to crit surge
3.easy sustain with dark deal, just make sure you streak away first and Its pretty much free
4.better group utility with streak-negate

Take flight is equal to DBoS when it comes to damage.
DBoS has an INSANE dot packed into it while take flight does %20 more damage on impact.
If the target is a vamp/werewolf, then dawnbreaker will always do more damage than take flight.

Also a stamsorc's dawnbreaker is probably gonna hit much harder than a usual leap because we Dks actually have to sacrifice offensive stats for open world builds.

My dk has good burst when both dots tick with a PI while getting heavy / wrecking blow rolling into execute. I run 5 pc bone 4 pc heavy eternal hunt with troll king. Full weapon damage glyphs. Bosmer atm, should switch to redguard, but have been considering khajiit. Between dk, khajiit, troll king, cp, heavy passives i bet i could get over 4k health recovery. At 3.3k i think right now without khajiit. I'd miss the disease resistance tho.

No offense but did you really read anything I wrote here?
Point is that nobody outperforms a stamsorc when it comes to dizzy swing builds. and what you consider high burst is actually sustained dps.

What you think high burst is actually very low to be honest.
I can give you a build that hits 4.7k weapon damage on sword-shield bar with Heavy Armor, Now that would be some real burst damage.
(and no, Its not fury+seventh legion, that setup is garbage compared to mine,trust me.)

Anyways, I really don't wanna discuss builds here but DKs rely on blocking, your build has tons of stam regen, which is mostly wasted power. IF you're not into blocking then why bother playing a stamDk?

The only thing this class is good at is block casting, IF you're into dizzy swing make a stamsorc build, meta stamDk only uses 2h as a back bar utility weapon.

Dude, if you want a good stam DK build I'll share it with you. @Thogard and I both run a variant of it.

Mine is 5 7th legion 5 Fury 2 Slime Double SnB. Once you farm that, you just reroll stamden

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that

I do not need a build , as Im aware of whats meta in stamDk.

I do also play in PC-EU, you can reach me with @ensar492, that is, if you catch me online,
We can discuss builds all you want.

But Im really not into a tank build that will be ignored in open world.

>not into cancer tank builds yet plays DK

That right there is your answer. That is where I feel the reasoning in this thread falls short.

The entire play style of DK is centered around running heavy armor meta (fury, 7th legion) and building for tankiness, while also having your weapon damage tick up to ridiculous levels. You better believe people will ignore you, because it's pure cancer. But the playstyle is alive and well, and highly viable.

It's true that running the same setup on Warden is literally better in every way. Right now wardens are a superior class. So I would have to recommend to roll Warden because they are better. 11k birds are a reality and it is OP.

But that doesn't mean stam dk isn't still viable within that playstyle. It is.

I would suggest you rethink wanting to play a bursty-high damage (glass cannonish?) type build and instead play the DK class in the most advantageous way possible that is suited for the class.

Obvious bias is obvious.
Its kind of funny being told how to play my main class.
And getting called cancer by a sorc main.

Well sorc is just such a good class that has soo much going for it, there's no reason not to play one. We're getting hit very bad by nerfs but we will adapt and overcome as long as it's possible.

But as far as DKs go, I know DKs who have gone 24 and 1 in BGs running fury and 7th, obliterating their competition with leap, blood spawn, and reverse slice. I have respect for DK players who are at that level, but I refuse to accept arguments of this nature against DK when they remain one of the tankiest classes.

Is this also sarcasm? I can't even tell anymore guys. Please stop.

KramUzibra · November 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Soooo... Allright,

In the past two months I realized there isn't any stamDk left in the forums to give actual, constructive feedback about why this class suddenly became so much weaker, to the point all the mains are moving away from it. The situation is bad. Really bad. Obviously both the ignorant noobs and zos are to blame on this topic.
yet before moving away from this game, I want to be positive to them for the first and probably the last time.

Im especially writing this now because the block changes can actually kill this class for real this time.
Its weak beyond reasoning. I would like to hear an answer from ZOS. What is your goal with stamDk? You want it to be a tank only class?
If thats the case can we have actual utility as a class?

StamDK are supposed to be the sustained dps fighters who should survive a bit longer than a stamsorc or stamblade, which is not the case anymore.
Battle roar/helping hands used to make us shine at the ''in your face'' play style.

StamDK didnt had to streak/cloak away to recover himself and in return It lacked mobility, lacked burst.
lacked freedom of choice ,so that we could face 2-3 people and fight longer than any other class. That was the stamDk a year ago. It saw nothing but nerfs since then.

Battle roar itself is both a blessing and a curse. It gives sustain, but It also forces you to spam your ult as soon as Its up.If you don't ult, you are wasting your sustain.
Guess it doesnt matter anymore. Its weak now.

Now ZOS took what we had going for us, but refused to give us anything else in return.

Add that with all the indirect meta nerfs and Its not a suprise the class is dead.

So the shuffle from HA is gone, with that you might expect people to run medium stamDk, but you forget that out of all the classes stamDk has the WORST burst potential.
and the WORST tools to be a burst build, WORST mobility aswell. medium armor and stamDK has ZERO synergies.

SO we are still forced into heavy armor/SnB/2h builds because we lack:

1. a gapcloser
2. stamina scaling on passives.( old battle roar/helping hands rewarded you for building offensive stats, that also made it harder for mDK/tankDk to permablock since they dont build stamina.)
3. any defence over range (wings costs insane, GDB costs insane while not scaling with stamina,igneous shield nerfed to 3 seconds which broke Its synergy with vigor,not to mention now you need double the magicka/GCD to get the same heals,SO It also makes you lose time too)

4.a real burst heal ( green dragon blood is obviously meant for pure tanks,Its so horrible 3 seconds of major mending from igneous shield has better value for me as a heal)
5. an execute (Why do we lack this again? I understand mobility but why can't I have a dot based execute?)
6. any kind of mobility/snare immunity
7. a spammable, or any real burst potential, which hurts the most, stamDk always hits less than other stam classes.
8.any real game changers like dark deal/streak/cloak/purge etc.. makes us predictable,boring, easy to play around.

So our ''sustained fighter'' goes into a fight, drops his dots on enemies only for them to streak/cloak/purge/shield whenever they please.
Previously that wasnt a problem because stamDk had much better stamina sustain. Battle roar/helping hands/adrenaline rush allowed stamDk to keep fighting.
Now Its not the case anymore.
All those things are nerfed with ZERO compensation..

Instead of solving permablock which exists purely because of CP and shield play enchants,

You kept nerfing DK again and again and again.

StamDk is no longer the ''in your face'' class as a result.

Now that you are solving the ''permablock issue'', Its time to revert some of those nerfs. maybe give us new stam morphs to play with.
Anything really.

The message is clear, we know balancing an MMO is hard, Its okay to make mistakes, Its not okay to ignore those who got affected by your mistakes.

So I ask again,

What is your end goal with stamDK, Will you actually compensate us after a year ZOS?

I main a Stam dk and have been running medium since imperial city released. I'll admit the constant nerfs were at first difficult to adapt to however I never felt forced into heavy armor. Lol perma block casting is a joke I can't wait till they fix it. So many players will be exposed.

KramUzibra · November 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

I like the way SDK plays, but holy hell is it restrictive. The beserker style is great but damn is it a one trick pony.

An execute is needed. No doubt about it. DK is the slow sustainy class not a potato. There is no reason this is should be a thing. I vote a weaker implosion with giving sorcs a dot proc to maintain dps. (Cremate/toxify)

Snare+immunity removal on plate morph of wings. Both morphs should be 4 projectiles per person, and reflect/deflect more. DK shouldn't have speed, its not a speedy class. It shouldn't also be slown to potatao level, it should be unstoppable force style.

Revert battle roar.

Give stamDK a poiosn morph of eruption with a miss chance when enemies in it, and a dodge chance with the DK in it.

Open chains slot for a new stamDK ability.

Make stonefist the new pull. Give it an initial CC of 1.5s and if the CC isn't broken, then it pulls without immunity. If the CC is broken it doesn't pull and grants immunity. (I did the maths nothing changes for pve.) Any height, even off keeps. Would give DKs unique group utility (Everything else is shared) and attacks against ranged. OPTIONAL: Make like foo and have it cost mag but scale like stam. Would benefit pve tanks and PvP StamDKs.

Please no! Implosion is a free proc kill we don't need anymor3 abilities or sets that provide this no skill gameplay. All executes and applied dmg should be due to player intervention.

KramUzibra · November 2017

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

I was running my hulking, ravager , selene dueling setup last night and was having problems with not having a burst heal. U need forward for snare immunity. Sustain as a Redguard is weak and I'm running an infused stamina drain glyph. Burst damage is very weak. Not very exciting to play.

Try medium armor.

ak_pvp · November 2017

KramUzibra wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

I like the way SDK plays, but holy hell is it restrictive. The beserker style is great but damn is it a one trick pony.

An execute is needed. No doubt about it. DK is the slow sustainy class not a potato. There is no reason this is should be a thing. I vote a weaker implosion with giving sorcs a dot proc to maintain dps. (Cremate/toxify)

Snare+immunity removal on plate morph of wings. Both morphs should be 4 projectiles per person, and reflect/deflect more. DK shouldn't have speed, its not a speedy class. It shouldn't also be slown to potatao level, it should be unstoppable force style.

Revert battle roar.

Give stamDK a poiosn morph of eruption with a miss chance when enemies in it, and a dodge chance with the DK in it.

Open chains slot for a new stamDK ability.

Make stonefist the new pull. Give it an initial CC of 1.5s and if the CC isn't broken, then it pulls without immunity. If the CC is broken it doesn't pull and grants immunity. (I did the maths nothing changes for pve.) Any height, even off keeps. Would give DKs unique group utility (Everything else is shared) and attacks against ranged. OPTIONAL: Make like foo and have it cost mag but scale like stam. Would benefit pve tanks and PvP StamDKs.

Please no! Implosion is a free proc kill we don't need anymor3 abilities or sets that provide this no skill gameplay. All executes and applied dmg should be due to player intervention.

Hence a nerfed implosion. Something small like burning light that can proc well by stacking dots.

mb10 · November 2017

Maybe you, the players should have a more unique playstyle.

I think everyone and their grandma are expecting the wrecking blow, dragon leap, executioner combo now. Stam DKs are very boring and I rarely see them utilise the poison DOTs effectively. If you're going to wrecking blow spam and do the typical rubbish then just be a Stam NB. At least you'll have fun

KramUzibra · November 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

I like the way SDK plays, but holy hell is it restrictive. The beserker style is great but damn is it a one trick pony.

An execute is needed. No doubt about it. DK is the slow sustainy class not a potato. There is no reason this is should be a thing. I vote a weaker implosion with giving sorcs a dot proc to maintain dps. (Cremate/toxify)

Snare+immunity removal on plate morph of wings. Both morphs should be 4 projectiles per person, and reflect/deflect more. DK shouldn't have speed, its not a speedy class. It shouldn't also be slown to potatao level, it should be unstoppable force style.

Revert battle roar.

Give stamDK a poiosn morph of eruption with a miss chance when enemies in it, and a dodge chance with the DK in it.

Open chains slot for a new stamDK ability.

Make stonefist the new pull. Give it an initial CC of 1.5s and if the CC isn't broken, then it pulls without immunity. If the CC is broken it doesn't pull and grants immunity. (I did the maths nothing changes for pve.) Any height, even off keeps. Would give DKs unique group utility (Everything else is shared) and attacks against ranged. OPTIONAL: Make like foo and have it cost mag but scale like stam. Would benefit pve tanks and PvP StamDKs.

Please no! Implosion is a free proc kill we don't need anymor3 abilities or sets that provide this no skill gameplay. All executes and applied dmg should be due to player intervention.

Hence a nerfed implosion. Something small like burning light that can proc well by stacking dots.

I disagree free dmg abilities shouldn't exists in the game. I agree Stam dks need something but it's not free dmg. Also Idk if perma blocking will ever get fixed but if it does mag dk might potentially be in the same position as Stam dk.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

mb10 wrote: »

Maybe you, the players should have a more unique playstyle.

I think everyone and their grandma are expecting the wrecking blow, dragon leap, executioner combo now. Stam DKs are very boring and I rarely see them utilise the poison DOTs effectively. If you're going to wrecking blow spam and do the typical rubbish then just be a Stam NB. At least you'll have fun

Well, at the moment the best way of playing a stamDK is having 25-30k hp, using a vMA 2h axe combined with a set like seventh/ravager, and slowly killing people with dots.

That dizzy swing users are mostly kodi wannabees.
That being said I really don't recommend a stamblade to run dizzy swing, Its too slow for a stamblade.
stamsorc is a better choice for dizzy builds.

Skinzz · November 2017

Maybe buff volatile armor for stam dks. Hurricane does for sorcs.. . So why not?