Crafting Limits to Hybrids (Jewelry)

brandonv516 · November 2017

I was thinking earlier I could put something fun together with two of these: Axiom, Shacklebreaker, Pelinals

Then I remembered they are all crafted sets and...

...no Jewelry Crafting. I was opposed to the idea once upon a time but I have changed my views on it.

Will 2018 be the year JC comes?

Oh and I know hybrids are taboo but it's better having your cake and eating it too.

Elsterchen · November 2017

As far as I remember it was agreed that jewelery craftig yields to OP combinations and is off the table. But I might be wrong.

Colecovision · November 2017

Elsterchen wrote: »

As far as I remember it was agreed that jewelery craftig yields to OP combinations and is off the table. But I might be wrong.

Did someone from ZoS actually state that or do you just mean that that's the feeling you got reading the threads? I've never heard them say anything at all and I assume it's definitely not happening.

Elsterchen · November 2017

I won't dig for it, the topic of jewellery crafting is lingering for for years now. I do remember this topic beeing brought up by players and Gina/Jessica picked it up (pre thieves guild patch). I also do not remember if any of them actually confirmed the player derived conclusion of jewellery crafting yieling to OP set combinations. But if something isn't put on the table anymore, and not discussed when players bring it up you may very well assume its off the to-do list.

Please note, I would love jewellery crafting myself, but I do think this feature would require a reworking of all current sets to make it work. Every patch there are new sets added...so workload to make jewellery crafting work is piling up, there hasn't been a word of jewellery crafting since a long time from ZOS ... well, figure for yourself.

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

Elsterchen wrote: »

As far as I remember it was agreed that jewelery craftig yields to OP combinations and is off the table. But I might be wrong.

I see this reaction on the forums every time this topic comes up, usually without the modest disclaimer at the end. I would also love to see jewelry crafting added.

I have yet to see a single example of which 2 crafted sets would be OP if paired together. I can't come up with one that would be best in slot. In every case using at least one dropped set works out to a more effective build for DPS, tanking, and healing in PVE.

I do have a couple of ideas for fun build that would combine crafted sets. Hist Bark + Tavas would be a cool tank setup, but balanced since you would be giving up a 5 piece set to get the evasion that was previously available from a skill. This could not be considered OP, since Tavas is really no better than Dragonguard or Werewolf Hide, and this build would be giving up Ebon, Alkosh and Torugs Pact.

Another combination I would like to try would be Kagrenacs + Mechanical Acuity on my Magplar. It could be a fun utility build with some decent burst damage and survivability, but could hardly be considered better than alternatives for DPS (Master Architect, IA, Moondancer, War Maiden, Mothers Sorrow, Julianos, even Soulshine).

As was already pointed out, the ones who would benefit most from this are hybrid builds, which have been in a bad place for a long time. Most of the newer crafted sets are hybrid in nature, but even with 2 of them hybrid builds would be far from OP.

If anyone has some god-mode combination of crafted sets I have not thought of, please share it here. I'm going to remain skeptical until then, and continue wondering why there is always so much opposition to jewelry crafting.

Elsterchen · November 2017

@WrathOfInnos ... Imo:
Hybrids (and no, not full hybrids!... those dipping into the other ressource pool) with
hundings and julianos;
hundings (or julianos) and pelinals/innate axiom (later if NB or warden)

Mags with julianos and seducer.

StamBlades with
nights silence and kwatch
kwatch and Mechanical Acuity... in PVP... (zerg surfing is going to be sport no one among NBs!)

anything combined with twice born star

... ... imo, these and more would be really strong. Idk about BIS... but remember you can craft all sets with any traits for a really small sum of gold. With jewellery crafting, grinding mindelessly in skyreach is buffed by a great margin (i do not like that). Adding to it I don't want the crafted sets to get "reworked" (nerfed) because of favourable easy to get combinations.

Lastly, if jewellery is crafted ... traits are free to add as well, again buffing hybrids in a-not-easy-to-track way.

Narvuntien · November 2017

Not having Jewerlly crafting means you can't have

Travas + hist bark tanks

GrumpyDuckling · November 2017

Attribute scaling is the main problem with hybrid builds.

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

@Elsterchen

Thanks for the examples, here are my thoughts on those.

Hundings + Julianos = Still weak hybrid

Hundings + Pelinals = Slightly less weak hybrid

Hundings + Innate Axiom < Hundings + Automaton (class dependent)

Julianos + Seducer < Julianos + Lich

Nights Silence = Bad set for PVP or PVE, just be a vamp

Kvatch + Acuity < Kvatch + Leviathan (is Kvatch even a good set? Sounds weak but I've never tried it)

Twice Born Star = Useless set since the mundus stone nerfs with HotR, for any chosen mundus there is a better set that does the same thing without wasted hybrid bonuses:
- Lover < Spinner/Spriggans
- Thief < Mothers Sorrow/Leviathan
- Mage < Nevroporence/Destruction Mastery
- Atronach < Lich, Seducer, Alteration, Warlock, Magicka Furnace
- Apprentice < Julianos
- Warrior < Hundings

These are mostly from a PVE perspective, but I don't really see how any of those combinations would cause issues in PVP.

lillybit · November 2017

I'm not sure we'll ever get JC, simply because that would mean you could improve other jewellery. Unless they added a completely new crafting system just for jewellery (I'm thinking something like enchanting where you have to create it at it's quality level and it can't be changed) which I think would be a terrible idea. Imagine having to create new armour pieces to go gold. I'm confident that if it were to be added, it would be expensive enough that you wouldn't want to make more than one set!

Transmutation crystals aside, the only real incentive to run vet content is for better rings so I don't think they'll ever let us improve them.

That said, every single set now comes with jewellery that's fairly easy to obtain so it makes no sense for crafted sets to not have the option.

starkerealm · November 2017

Colecovision wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

As far as I remember it was agreed that jewelery craftig yields to OP combinations and is off the table. But I might be wrong.

Did someone from ZoS actually state that or do you just mean that that's the feeling you got reading the threads? I've never heard them say anything at all and I assume it's definitely not happening.

I think it was Paul Sage, in a forum thread ages ago. So, it might have been an issue at one time. Doesn't mean that's still the case, however.

Elsterchen · November 2017

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@Elsterchen

Thanks for the examples, here are my thoughts on those.

Hundings + Julianos = Still weak hybrid <- I disagree: a templar hybrid with 5/ 5/ 54 would not only be able to dish out almost max possible damage (pushed with hundings) but have access to usefull class-heals (pushed with julianos) ... 5-6k heals at almost no loss of weapon damage isn't weak!

Hundings + Pelinals = Slightly less weak hybrid <- I disagree, I actually have used a compareable setup on a templar hybrid (pelinals and morag tong (yes, I know templars do not have poison abilities - i was pushing weapon damage), ... I started to solo normal pledges with this setup (and that was the first time I ever ran those dungeons at all). I noted this setup because hunding IS more favourable for stamina focussed hybrids then morag tong is for templars.

Hundings + Innate Axiom < Hundings + Automaton (class dependent)

Julianos + Seducer < Julianos + Lich

Nights Silence = Bad set for PVP or PVE, just be a vamp

Kvatch + Acuity < Kvatch + Leviathan (is Kvatch even a good set? Sounds weak but I've never tried it)

Twice Born Star = Useless set since the mundus stone nerfs with HotR, for any chosen mundus there is a better set that does the same thing without wasted hybrid bonuses: maybe if you like to strongly specialize... idk for PVE vet content? but not everyone is doing that, especially not in PVP. There beeing able to push 2 different stats in one set is plain awesome.
- Lover < Spinner/Spriggans
- Thief < Mothers Sorrow/Leviathan
- Mage < Nevroporence/Destruction Mastery
- Atronach < Lich, Seducer, Alteration, Warlock, Magicka Furnace
- Apprentice < Julianos
- Warrior < Hundings

These are mostly from a PVE perspective, but I don't really see how any of those combinations would cause issues in PVP. <- Yes, ever been called a cheater when you, beeing at resistance hard cap, heal through enemies damage, and able to dish out damage thanks to medium armor bonus ? (btw: i currently use twice born star, ok on a stamplar not a hybriplar but ... maybe you like to re-evaluate some assumtions

WrathOfInnos · November 2017

@Elsterchen

Thank you for the responses. I'm still skeptical about the effectiveness of some of those hybrid build examples, but I suppose Stamplar benefits more than most classes for hybrid.

As it relates to jewelry crafting, I do want to point out that for Hundings + Julianos or Hundings + Pelinals, you would be better off using Briarheart in place of Hundings. It has very similar average weapon damage, with more burst, and free heals. That being said, I maintain that crafting Hundings jewelry could not be OP, because a better set with jewelry is already available.

As for TBS, it doesn't really add 2 different stats, you get one Mundus free and it adds a second one. I would still say that there are better sets that do the same thing as most Mundus stones (some examples listed previously), and you could still go two different directions with the Mundus and the gear set.

If I'm misunderstanding your points on any of these, please elaborate.