Does ZOS Actually Know What Class Balance Is?

Apache_Kid · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Yes, that is balance if you add in the cp changes too. See everyone will be a nightblade there is your balance. Just like I will have a steady balance of ap from the stealthflakes, lol.

funny about NB is that they aint for everyone...while sorcs are a 3 button class.

That’s a pretty bold statement to make. Especially when there are more Nightblades than any other class in ESO. Especially in PvP. Which type of PvP? Take your pick. Lol. You’ll encounter them more than any other class in: BG, Cyrodiil, or duel requests.

So ummm... What was that about the class not being for everyone? I’m starting to even see more NB’s than DK’s in trials. In fact, most people will limit the amount of DK’s per trial nowadays to 1. Unless! Unless they need 2 chainers for VMoL. Outside of that, the limit is strictly 1.

Please show me the statistics behind your bold statement of there being more nightblades than any other class in Cyrodiil. Would love to see these numbers....

CardboardedBox · November 2017

And just like a few weeks ago, the talk of the town was, "R.I.P nightblades, nerfed again".

Yawn. "Does zos know what class balance is?" More like, will people ever realize balance will never happen, because it's next to impossible to make happen, due to how many sets, abilities, and players personal skills there are?

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Yes, that is balance if you add in the cp changes too. See everyone will be a nightblade there is your balance. Just like I will have a steady balance of ap from the stealthflakes, lol.

funny about NB is that they aint for everyone...while sorcs are a 3 button class.

That’s a pretty bold statement to make. Especially when there are more Nightblades than any other class in ESO. Especially in PvP. Which type of PvP? Take your pick. Lol. You’ll encounter them more than any other class in: BG, Cyrodiil, or duel requests.

So ummm... What was that about the class not being for everyone? I’m starting to even see more NB’s than DK’s in trials. In fact, most people will limit the amount of DK’s per trial nowadays to 1. Unless! Unless they need 2 chainers for VMoL. Outside of that, the limit is strictly 1.

Please show me the statistics behind your bold statement of there being more nightblades than any other class in Cyrodiil. Would love to see these numbers....

The statistics behind my bold statement? You don’t have to take my word for it, comrade. In fact, I would encourage the opposite. Simply just go see for yourself. Stuff like that has to be observed by one’s self in order to believe. So by all means, go see for yourself. However, I don’t quite see how you couldn’t know this already (assuming you actively play ESO regularly). But again, don’t take my word for it. Go stroll around Grahtwood a bit. Craglorn a bit. You know. The hubs. Go drop by Auridon and Glenumbra, and see what the typical class is that new players are using. Go visit a few dolmens and grind spots, and see for yourself which class is getting leveled the most. Go do a couple of random dungeons. Go see which type of DPS is it that shows up most frequently. And upon doing these things, please report back with your findings.

Here is something about me, for future reference. I always encourage people to go and see for themselves if what I’m claiming makes sense or not. Why? Because it is the only way to truly believe. What better proof is there, than seeing something for yourself? You know? Because otherwise, a person could just be pulling percentages and numbers out of nowhere. And be totally full of crap. Where as if a person goes out and observes it themselves, then there is a middle grounds to go off of. A basis to something that was witnessed by both sides of the debate/topic at hand.

Apache_Kid · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Yes, that is balance if you add in the cp changes too. See everyone will be a nightblade there is your balance. Just like I will have a steady balance of ap from the stealthflakes, lol.

funny about NB is that they aint for everyone...while sorcs are a 3 button class.

That’s a pretty bold statement to make. Especially when there are more Nightblades than any other class in ESO. Especially in PvP. Which type of PvP? Take your pick. Lol. You’ll encounter them more than any other class in: BG, Cyrodiil, or duel requests.

So ummm... What was that about the class not being for everyone? I’m starting to even see more NB’s than DK’s in trials. In fact, most people will limit the amount of DK’s per trial nowadays to 1. Unless! Unless they need 2 chainers for VMoL. Outside of that, the limit is strictly 1.

Please show me the statistics behind your bold statement of there being more nightblades than any other class in Cyrodiil. Would love to see these numbers....

The statistics behind my bold statement? You don’t have to take my word for it, comrade. In fact, I would encourage the opposite. Simply just go see for yourself. Stuff like that has to be observed by one’s self in order to believe. So by all means, go see for yourself. However, I don’t quite see how you couldn’t know this already (assuming you actively play ESO regularly). But again, don’t take my word for it. Go stroll around Grahtwood a bit. Craglorn a bit. You know. The hubs. Go drop by Auridon and Glenumbra, and see what the typical class is that new players are using. Go visit a few dolmens and grind spots, and see for yourself which class is getting leveled the most. Go do a couple of random dungeons. Go see which type of DPS is it that shows up most frequently. And upon doing these things, please report back with your findings.

Here is something about me, for future reference. I always encourage people to go and see for themselves if what I’m claiming makes sense or not. Why? Because it is the only way to truly believe. What better proof is there, than seeing something for yourself? You know? Because otherwise, a person could just be pulling percentages and numbers out of nowhere. And be totally full of crap. Where as if a person goes out and observes it themselves, then there is a middle grounds to go off of. A basis to something that was witnessed by both sides of the debate/topic at hand.

Sorry but anecdotal evidence is not acceptable when you make a claim like you did.

Edit: For the record I see WAY more DKs and Sorcs than NBs in Cyrodiil.

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Yes, that is balance if you add in the cp changes too. See everyone will be a nightblade there is your balance. Just like I will have a steady balance of ap from the stealthflakes, lol.

funny about NB is that they aint for everyone...while sorcs are a 3 button class.

That’s a pretty bold statement to make. Especially when there are more Nightblades than any other class in ESO. Especially in PvP. Which type of PvP? Take your pick. Lol. You’ll encounter them more than any other class in: BG, Cyrodiil, or duel requests.

So ummm... What was that about the class not being for everyone? I’m starting to even see more NB’s than DK’s in trials. In fact, most people will limit the amount of DK’s per trial nowadays to 1. Unless! Unless they need 2 chainers for VMoL. Outside of that, the limit is strictly 1.

Please show me the statistics behind your bold statement of there being more nightblades than any other class in Cyrodiil. Would love to see these numbers....

The statistics behind my bold statement? You don’t have to take my word for it, comrade. In fact, I would encourage the opposite. Simply just go see for yourself. Stuff like that has to be observed by one’s self in order to believe. So by all means, go see for yourself. However, I don’t quite see how you couldn’t know this already (assuming you actively play ESO regularly). But again, don’t take my word for it. Go stroll around Grahtwood a bit. Craglorn a bit. You know. The hubs. Go drop by Auridon and Glenumbra, and see what the typical class is that new players are using. Go visit a few dolmens and grind spots, and see for yourself which class is getting leveled the most. Go do a couple of random dungeons. Go see which type of DPS is it that shows up most frequently. And upon doing these things, please report back with your findings.

Here is something about me, for future reference. I always encourage people to go and see for themselves if what I’m claiming makes sense or not. Why? Because it is the only way to truly believe. What better proof is there, than seeing something for yourself? You know? Because otherwise, a person could just be pulling percentages and numbers out of nowhere. And be totally full of crap. Where as if a person goes out and observes it themselves, then there is a middle grounds to go off of. A basis to something that was witnessed by both sides of the debate/topic at hand.

Sorry but anecdotal evidence is not acceptable when you make a claim like you did.

Edit: For the record I see WAY more DKs and Sorcs than NBs in Cyrodiil.

If what you say is true, which I am highly skeptical of? Then I truly wish that I could play where are you playing, because it would be a breeze for me there. You’re telling me that you encounter DK’s and Sorcs far more than Nightblades...? DK’s are less common than even Templars. Maybe even Wardens, although I wouldn’t know if the amount of DK’s and Wardens are tied. With Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars being the most encountered class by a long shot. And it has been like that for years. The only exception was that Wardens hadn’t existed until more recently. Making DK’s the least encountered class by myself and all of those who I grouped with. Actually, not even just that. I recall people hating to get the “Kill Enemy Dragonknights” daily, as it would take so obnoxiously long to encounter a DK. Let alone complete the quest by killing 20 of them.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2017

How is mDK not being mobile a valid point no they are not mobile that’s how they were made. You can defend from ranged attacks with Dragon Scales, you can hold a player with Talons, you have burst heals, HoTs and heals based on missing Health not as good in PvP yet still good.

Dragon Knight and Templars are build to stand their ground. Not run and hide or run circles around their enemies. Stand and fight is what they are meant to do it’s what their powers and passives do best.

If you want a hit and run non stop mobility class then take Nightblade, Sorcerer or Warden. It’s like saying your Nightblade is not good straight up fighting 1v3 Powers and passives were just not made for that.

Apache_Kid · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Yes, that is balance if you add in the cp changes too. See everyone will be a nightblade there is your balance. Just like I will have a steady balance of ap from the stealthflakes, lol.

funny about NB is that they aint for everyone...while sorcs are a 3 button class.

That’s a pretty bold statement to make. Especially when there are more Nightblades than any other class in ESO. Especially in PvP. Which type of PvP? Take your pick. Lol. You’ll encounter them more than any other class in: BG, Cyrodiil, or duel requests.

So ummm... What was that about the class not being for everyone? I’m starting to even see more NB’s than DK’s in trials. In fact, most people will limit the amount of DK’s per trial nowadays to 1. Unless! Unless they need 2 chainers for VMoL. Outside of that, the limit is strictly 1.

Please show me the statistics behind your bold statement of there being more nightblades than any other class in Cyrodiil. Would love to see these numbers....

The statistics behind my bold statement? You don’t have to take my word for it, comrade. In fact, I would encourage the opposite. Simply just go see for yourself. Stuff like that has to be observed by one’s self in order to believe. So by all means, go see for yourself. However, I don’t quite see how you couldn’t know this already (assuming you actively play ESO regularly). But again, don’t take my word for it. Go stroll around Grahtwood a bit. Craglorn a bit. You know. The hubs. Go drop by Auridon and Glenumbra, and see what the typical class is that new players are using. Go visit a few dolmens and grind spots, and see for yourself which class is getting leveled the most. Go do a couple of random dungeons. Go see which type of DPS is it that shows up most frequently. And upon doing these things, please report back with your findings.

Here is something about me, for future reference. I always encourage people to go and see for themselves if what I’m claiming makes sense or not. Why? Because it is the only way to truly believe. What better proof is there, than seeing something for yourself? You know? Because otherwise, a person could just be pulling percentages and numbers out of nowhere. And be totally full of crap. Where as if a person goes out and observes it themselves, then there is a middle grounds to go off of. A basis to something that was witnessed by both sides of the debate/topic at hand.

Sorry but anecdotal evidence is not acceptable when you make a claim like you did.

Edit: For the record I see WAY more DKs and Sorcs than NBs in Cyrodiil.

If what you say is true, which I am highly skeptical of? Then I truly wish that I could play where are you playing, because it would be a breeze for me there. You’re telling me that you encounter DK’s and Sorcs far more than Nightblades...? DK’s are less common than even Templars. Maybe even Wardens, although I wouldn’t know if the amount of DK’s and Wardens are tied. With Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars being the most encountered class by a long shot. And it has been like that for years. The only exception was that Wardens hadn’t existed until more recently. Making DK’s the least encountered class by myself and all of those who I grouped with. Actually, not even just that. I recall people hating to get the “Kill Enemy Dragonknights” daily, as it would take so obnoxiously long to encounter a DK. Let alone complete the quest by killing 20 of them.

Yes that's what I'm telling you. I love getting kill enemy DKs. The only one I have trouble completeing ever is wardens. PvP is literally full of Stamdks in heavy with sword and board and shield stacking sorcs. Not far behind we have the inferno staff/Sword and shield magdk. Maybe it's an Xbox thing but sorc and Dk by far most popular in Vivec.

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

How is mDK not being mobile a valid point no they are not mobile that’s how they were made. You can defend from ranged attacks with Dragon Scales, you can hold a player with Talons, you have burst heals, HoTs and heals based on missing Health not as good in PvP yet still good.

Dragon Knight and Templars are build to stand their ground. Not run and hide or run circles around their enemies. Stand and fight is what they are meant to do it’s what their powers and passives do best.

If you want a hit and run non stop mobility class then take Nightblade, Sorcerer or Warden. It’s like saying your Nightblade is not good straight up fighting 1v3 Powers and passives were just not made for that.

Umm. You do know that mobility is king, yes? It has nothing to do with “hit n’ run” as a playstyle. No. It’s about having mobility for easier/proper positioning. Hence why most people who run magicka variants of Templars or Dragonknights go the vampire route when PvP’ing. Do you think that this is done for fun? For roleplay reasons? N’ah. It’s to get that Mist Form to patch the giant hole that is mobility on those 2 classes. Well... That and the benefits of increased magicka regeneration. But, that’s not the key factor to the shift to vampirism. It is about gaining mobility on a class that needs it desperately.

Now are you going to sit there, and tell me that a PvP’er worth his weight is going to intentionally not use mobility of some kind? And completely forgot how crucial something like that is? I don’t care if they are: A healer, DPS, or tank. Are they really a skilled and knowledgeable player, yet going to intentionally bypass the importance of mobility?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2017

BalticBlues wrote: »

NBs even can kill CP660 Heavy Armor players from stealth
with Surprise Attacks without giving them even a chance to react.

As long as Stealth and Surprise Attacks exist in this game,
there never will be class balance and NBs will always be the favorite class.

This is just plain not true first you need sharpened hammers to cut their resistance other wise they stay near armor cap which cuts damage 50%. Second please tell me you know Nightblades only do 10% more damage from stealth for every 10k that’s just 1k more on that one attack not really changing that game with that.

A fully charged heavy attack or Dizzying Swing actually does better damage if you are stealth, not cloaked but stealth. So anyone that can sneak (which is everyone) can do this. Nightblade have no passives to help us sneak better just a speed buff in Consealed Weapon.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Yeah, if you're trying to use a lot of stealth breaking abilities while in cloak, or you're trying to dodge roll.

Once you know what you're doing, cloak is really versatile, but I get where a player who's never really learned how to use it would miss that.

LOL such a *** response. There are SO many direct counters to cloak it's absurd. Claiming otherwise is ignorant of the types of skills and pots that are in the game. Cloak is only useful when you are playing against pugs that don't realize how easy it is you pull people out of it. You're just trolling now.

Hey, I'll grant you, it's not easy. This is a L2P issue, but that doesn't reflect on you. I think I've said earlier in this thread, it took over a year to get to a place where I could actually make the cloak work more often than not. (Ignoring the part where it's actually been broken, several times, during the game's life.)

Here's the quick takeaway: By itself, Cloak is not an escape. It will let you reposition, but it's not supposed to be a one click escape. Just from the way it's designed. It's undergone some reworks over the years, but the primary goal is to boost survivability and allow the NB to fire off sneak attacks mid combat (even if that doesn't really work). That said, with enough practice, you can use it as an escape.

Once you get a handle on what it can, and can't, do, the cloak becomes a very versatile tool. However, if you're trying to dodge roll or sprint in cloak... yeah, that's not going to end well.

I'm not trying to dodge roll or sprint. It's that once I use it *boom* aoe right where I was it immov pot with detect and I'm out of it. Where did I state above that I was pulling myself out of cloak? Enemies are pulling me out. I think I'm a seasoned enough player to know that RUNNING or ROLLING will pull me out. You're just being rude at this point.

The sprint and dodge roll thing wasn't you.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Cloak is useless for getting away you are in the same place you don’t move with Cloak, can’t sprint or roll.

Though you did specifically agree with them.

Also, here's a stray thought, when you cloak, don't go where they expect. I know, this gets into mind games a bit, but between cloak and concealed weapon, if they know where you are, you've only yourself to blame when you get AoEed.

Cloak is very much a mind game but if you ever played a Nightblade you would know you have to get distance or CC then Cloak if you just Cloak you would be hit by the AoE everyone in PvP would fire when they see you disappear.

zParallaxz · November 2017

Thogard wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

How can you honestly sit here and say MagDk is worse off as a class in Cyrodiil right now than Stamblades are. I'm speechless.

Edit: MagDk is in a bad place in PvE now but not in PvP whatsoever.

The thing about Blades is... if you know what you're doing, it is a phenomenally dangerous class. I haven't been messing around with a Stamblade in PvP since this patch hit, but, as someone who's spent the last (almost three years) learning the ins and outs of the class, and with it's state for the last couple patches before CWC, yeah, I haven no trouble believing that MagDKs are in worse shape right now, than StamBlades.

Now, fair's fair, I'm not an expert on the DK. I know my way around NBs and Sorcs; Templars and DKs have never really grabbed me in the same way. But, yeah, from what I've done with a DK in the last couple months, vs the current state of the NB? That's not really that implausible.

NBs are very fragile. If you know how to play it, you can get some fantastic results. If you don't, it can be an exercise in frustration.

Now, if there's some DK synergy that's making the MagDKs way more effective in PvP, then I'm unaware, and that one's all on me.

Shiiiiiiit. That makes you and me and both. Lmao. I’ve been actively maining a MagDK in PvP for years, with me only swapping to my NB’s when I’m incredibly annoyed with overconfident folks in PvP and want to cheese AP. Last time I brought my MagSorc into PvP was to get them the “Star-Made Knight” title. And proceeded with immediately re-spec’ing them back to PvE specifications.

@Apache_Kid So please, do share if you know something that we don’t know about how glorious MagDK’s are in PvP currently. Yes, spamming Talons and popping a Fossilize and Leap here and there are cute. Yes, very cute. Sprinkle some Flash Lashes in there too, and all that jazz. Yup. Really adorable. But please, do tell me what it is that makes MagDK’s such a threat in Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil. I can’t even solo with a MagDK comfortably, because ZOS has screwed up DK’s to be a “utility bot” while steadily draining the class variant’s utility.

All of the things you just mentioned plus having shields. StamNb currently squishest class, no heal other than vigor or shields, only option to purge is a skill that costs all their magicka which takes away the use of cloak. And most of the things you are trying to purge (haunting curse) can be reapplied right after you purge it. And cloak? Please. Try cloaking with like any dot ability on you and it will pull you out instantly. Cloak doesn't work half the time because of this and it is their only defense other than dodge roll.

StamBlades squishy...? Lol. Please watch this video of a duel I had with a StamBlade while using my MagDK a few weeks ago. It’s also why I hardly duel anymore, unless it is that I know the person and or they are friendly. I don’t waste my time with them, as I have the “Duelist” title on all the characters I aimed to have it on. There is nothing squishy about StamBlades. Please stop parroting what people falsely claim, but have no skill with.
https://youtu.be/Q2BFJbhPLNw

As for issues with MagSorcs, I melt them on my StamBlade. Melt them. Melt. Them. The only time I lose to MagSorcs, is if they are a PetSorc camping mines. And even then, that type of scrubby playstyle is encountered only in duels. And hardly ever in Cyrodiil. After fear is cast, MagSorcs get annihilated. And if I’m being extra cheesy and using poisons on my StamBlade, it becomes an even bigger mess and faster defeat for the Sorc I’m targeting.

Sounds to me like you need to evaluate your StamBlade build, playstyle, or knowledge on engaging other classes.

Wow.

yeah man. This is a learn to play issue. Mag DK's are fine. I can't believe you lost a duel to a stamblade and then had the gumption to post it on the boards as if it would prove that stamblades are OP. It doesn't. He didn't even kite you. You got outplayed despite having a clear class advantage.

For starters, when you root someone, you should walk through them and attack them from behind so they can't attack you back.. that's Mag DK 101.... you also slotted petrify which can be OK but only if you pair it with meteor to make it unblockable.. but you didn't even petrify before your leaps which allowed him to block your leaps. ...

You have plenty of tools on mag DK. you just don't know how to use them. Thankfully you posted a video and can learn from your player mistakes.

Lol as a magdk main myself, this man needs work.

zParallaxz · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Actually_Goku wrote: »

I feel like Mag DK's aren't in a terrible place right now, and you can search - I've started plenty of threads and commented in many about where we were at. A year ago, I honestly think I was one of maybe 2 Mag DK's that PVP'd on the XB EU server.

We got a buff earlier in the year, and although the class changes themselves were fine, when it was coupled with the heavy armour meta, it was a little bit too tanky. It was too easy to be able to deal a good amount of damage, while sustaining a high amount in heavy armour.

To be fair, I honestly feel right now, that we are as close to balance as we have been since console launch, especially in respect to the magicka/stamina balance.

Lol. If ZOS gave MagDK’s an execute of some kind and basic mobility, then maybe. Just maybe I would agree that MagDK’s were remotely balanced (in accordance to other classes). Better yet, a simple (legitimate) reduction in skill cost. And you’d have me sold. But as is, there is truly no reason for me to even bother continuing about using my MagDK from a PvP perspective. It’s literally overshadowed by everyone else. Literally.

I’ll probably just convert my StamDK for PvP, and just focus learning/mastering StamDK as well as I’ve learned and mastered MagDK. Not going to waste my time anymore wrestling for MagDK equality, when I’m literally gimping myself every time I utilize it.

By the way, it’s no better for PvE. Lol. Unless your group is in need of that Engulfing Flames benefit, is in need of a chainer, or needs Deep Breath? There’s literally 0 reason to run a MagDK in trials. None. Zero. You’d be better off with Sorcs and Nightblades. Maybe even MagPlar (teehe).

...

On the bright side, they buffed Cauterize. LMAO!

Trust me dude you have not mastered magdk, you still make a lot of mistakes when you play the class.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

How is mDK not being mobile a valid point no they are not mobile that’s how they were made. You can defend from ranged attacks with Dragon Scales, you can hold a player with Talons, you have burst heals, HoTs and heals based on missing Health not as good in PvP yet still good.

Dragon Knight and Templars are build to stand their ground. Not run and hide or run circles around their enemies. Stand and fight is what they are meant to do it’s what their powers and passives do best.

If you want a hit and run non stop mobility class then take Nightblade, Sorcerer or Warden. It’s like saying your Nightblade is not good straight up fighting 1v3 Powers and passives were just not made for that.

Umm. You do know that mobility is king, yes? It has nothing to do with “hit n’ run” as a playstyle. No. It’s about having mobility for easier/proper positioning. Hence why most people who run magicka variants of Templars or Dragonknights go the vampire route when PvP’ing. Do you think that this is done for fun? For roleplay reasons? N’ah. It’s to get that Mist Form to patch the giant hole that is mobility on those 2 classes. Well... That and the benefits of increased magicka regeneration. But, that’s not the key factor to the shift to vampirism. It is about gaining mobility on a class that needs it desperately.

Now are you going to sit there, and tell me that a PvP’er worth his weight is going to intentionally not use mobility of some kind? And completely forgot how crucial something like that is? I don’t care if they are: A healer, DPS, or tank. Are they really a skilled and knowledgeable player, yet going to intentionally bypass the importance of mobility?

Mobility is not King if you are you Tank with DoTs and pressure like mDKs are geared for. People like to be mobile cause it’s better in the fight. Just cause you like a play style or it’s meta don’t mean it’s 100% needed. DKs and Templars can stand and fight and live. Mobility is a rogue tool not a mage tool.

Maryal · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Yes, that is balance if you add in the cp changes too. See everyone will be a nightblade there is your balance. Just like I will have a steady balance of ap from the stealthflakes, lol.

funny about NB is that they aint for everyone...while sorcs are a 3 button class.

That’s a pretty bold statement to make. Especially when there are more Nightblades than any other class in ESO. Especially in PvP. Which type of PvP? Take your pick. Lol. You’ll encounter them more than any other class in: BG, Cyrodiil, or duel requests.

So ummm... What was that about the class not being for everyone? I’m starting to even see more NB’s than DK’s in trials. In fact, most people will limit the amount of DK’s per trial nowadays to 1. Unless! Unless they need 2 chainers for VMoL. Outside of that, the limit is strictly 1.

Please show me the statistics behind your bold statement of there being more nightblades than any other class in Cyrodiil. Would love to see these numbers....

The statistics behind my bold statement? You don’t have to take my word for it, comrade. In fact, I would encourage the opposite. Simply just go see for yourself. Stuff like that has to be observed by one’s self in order to believe. So by all means, go see for yourself. However, I don’t quite see how you couldn’t know this already (assuming you actively play ESO regularly). But again, don’t take my word for it. Go stroll around Grahtwood a bit. Craglorn a bit. You know. The hubs. Go drop by Auridon and Glenumbra, and see what the typical class is that new players are using. Go visit a few dolmens and grind spots, and see for yourself which class is getting leveled the most. Go do a couple of random dungeons. Go see which type of DPS is it that shows up most frequently. And upon doing these things, please report back with your findings.

Here is something about me, for future reference. I always encourage people to go and see for themselves if what I’m claiming makes sense or not. Why? Because it is the only way to truly believe. What better proof is there, than seeing something for yourself? You know? Because otherwise, a person could just be pulling percentages and numbers out of nowhere. And be totally full of crap. Where as if a person goes out and observes it themselves, then there is a middle grounds to go off of. A basis to something that was witnessed by both sides of the debate/topic at hand.

It is normal human behavior to (subconsciously) pay more attention things a person really wants, likes, etc., or things they feel rather negatively toward. This makes gauging the class makeup of Cyrodiil based on observation rather subjective, leading to an unintentionally biased result. That being said, it would be difficult to judge the number of people playing one particular class or another by going to a particular place and looking around.

It doesn't make sense to assume the class makeup in pve-land carries over to pvp-land. (see spoiler):

A person's pve toon may not be the same class/toon they use for pvp.

Not everyone in pve-land likes Cyrodiil. From everything I've personally observed and read on the forums over the past 2+ years, it seems most pve'ers do not like Cyrodiil and avoid it at all costs (other than to get shards/unlock pvp skills to use in pve).

New players may initially choose a class based on it being able to do a little of everything (jack of all trades), such as a Nightblade or a Warden. Keep in mind that vanilla pve content is not inherently difficult, especially once you reach level 50 and have a decent amount of CP (in all honesty, any class is 'easy' to play in vanilla pve content). Vanilla content includes dolmans and group public dungeons (unless you solo them, but even then, they are not all that difficult).

I tend to look at the pvp leaderboard for each faction to get an idea of the approximate 'class makeup' of Cyrodiil. The leaderboard defaults to the 'overall' top 100 (including class), but you can get more info by looking at the top 100 for each faction. It's about the most objective tool I've found.

Note: I thought about using other leaderboards, but they are based on a more specialized type of game play, thus, making their use less relevant.

MLGProPlayer · November 2017

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4532151/#Comment_4532151

Let's see if they follow through. We'll be on their [snip] if they don't.

[Edited to remove profanity]

pieratsos · November 2017

newtinmpls wrote: »

I still say dump classes and open up all skill lines to everyone.

Yep. What could possibly go wrong with curse, shalk, spectral bow, purifying light, inferno, meteor combo.

Gorilla · November 2017

Malic wrote: »

Some of these people have to be new.

The real difference is NB isnt complex. Its got one of the cheapest magi spamables in the game, its got one of the most potent damage class ulti's in the game (and its cheap even with the bump to 70) and its got cloak. Why it isnt complex is the passive are spectacular. Really any noob can jump into a NB and perform well, in a skilled players hands its even better than a DK.

yet every "pro" will admit in their videos / guides that it is one of the most difficult to play...hhhmmm...

Doctordarkspawn · November 2017

Vanthras79 wrote: »

What does the great lord Fengrush have to say about balances changes?

If the Great Lord Fengrush's feedback was so good, we likely wouldn't have these issues.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4532151/#Comment_4532151

Let's see if they follow through. We'll be on their [snip] if they don't.

They never will.

You should know that by now.

I like that they're trying to communicate with us a little bit more now, but I really do not expect anything to come of these in a way that is actually useable to the general public.

[Edited for quote]

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

Gorilla wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Some of these people have to be new.

The real difference is NB isnt complex. Its got one of the cheapest magi spamables in the game, its got one of the most potent damage class ulti's in the game (and its cheap even with the bump to 70) and its got cloak. Why it isnt complex is the passive are spectacular. Really any noob can jump into a NB and perform well, in a skilled players hands its even better than a DK.

yet every "pro" will admit in their videos / guides that it is one of the most difficult to play...hhhmmm...

I’ve yet to see this myself. I’ve always been told that (and have said myself) DK’s are by far the most demanding class to master. MagDK especially.

For example, when learning VMA the best starter classes are: Nightblade and Templar. Sometimes a Sorcerer, but usually the former. My very first Flawless Conqueror ever was a Nightblade. I farm the most AP in a Nightblade, and the quickest. And I can breeze through quests and content like DB and TG with a NB.

The class truly is easy mode for ESO. You go and tell a beginner to try learning VMA on a MagDK, and see what happens. Lol. In fact, MagDK was the hardest by far to ever get a Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror on. Obnoxiously hard. Solo PvP on a MagDK? Again, hard mode essentially. And if we are talking about DB and TG, pretty much the same thing applies regarding MagDK’s.

thankyourat · November 2017

I would much rather fight any version of nightblade before I fight a mag dk who spams talons, and almost never has to drop block while they layer you with dots and hits 12k leaps, and also has a on demand burst heal for 10k plus if it crits. Mag dk is stupid strong

Betsararie · November 2017

What is it with the mag dk wining. They do fine. Literally their own downside is their mobility is garbage. In every other area, they are more than fine. No class can have it all

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2017

Just a PSA ZoS tracks the number of players per class in PvE and PvP. They buff the classes that have a lower percentage and nerf the ones with higher percentage present. So no most of PvP is not Nightblades it’s nearly even actually.

Same with Armor on one of the ESO live months back they showed the armor spread of PvP it was very close for all three at a time when everyone believed it was just heavy and light. You tent to see things more when they stand out. Like the Nightblade solo player that killed you. Or the heavy armor guy that will not die.

Best balance we have ever had cause it’s being balanced by in game data not the general consensus.

Maryal · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Gorilla wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Some of these people have to be new.

The real difference is NB isnt complex. Its got one of the cheapest magi spamables in the game, its got one of the most potent damage class ulti's in the game (and its cheap even with the bump to 70) and its got cloak. Why it isnt complex is the passive are spectacular. Really any noob can jump into a NB and perform well, in a skilled players hands its even better than a DK.

yet every "pro" will admit in their videos / guides that it is one of the most difficult to play...hhhmmm...

I’ve yet to see this myself. I’ve always been told that (and have said myself) DK’s are by far the most demanding class to master. MagDK especially.

For example, when learning VMA the best starter classes are: Nightblade and Templar. Sometimes a Sorcerer, but usually the former. My very first Flawless Conqueror ever was a Nightblade. I farm the most AP in a Nightblade, and the quickest. And I can breeze through quests and content like DB and TG with a NB.

The class truly is easy mode for ESO. You go and tell a beginner to try learning VMA on a MagDK, and see what happens. Lol. In fact, MagDK was the hardest by far to ever get a Stormproof and Flawless Conqueror on. Obnoxiously hard. Solo PvP on a MagDK? Again, hard mode essentially. And if we are talking about DB and TG, pretty much the same thing applies regarding MagDK’s.

A 'beginner' generally would not step foot into VMA on any toon without a good life insurance policy.

Each class has a tool-kit that helps them do better in certain types of content than others (or against certain types of mobs), depending on a person's play style. That tool-kit 'advantage' is subject to change depending on how much of that tool-kit gets buffed/nerfed from one patch to the next.

All classes are easy to play in vanilla pve content. All classes can be mastered given enough time, dedication and experience. Is one easier to master than another? Yes and no. It depends on a person's play-style, what they enjoy (what is fun to them) combined with each individual's own personal strengths/weaknesses (i.e., not everyone can be a Sypher PK, Andy S, Alcast, Kodi, or Gilliamtherogue, ya know!.).

Also, not everyone is interested in mastering all classes, including the stamina and magica versions of each.

If a particular class isn't played as much as another, it could be that the 'less played class' simply holds less 'sex appeal' than some other class for the majority of players (which has nothing to do with whether a class is or is not 'difficult' to master).

Alaztor91 · November 2017

tbh I would really like to know if ZOS plans on homogenizing classes more or if they plan on doing the opposite.

Savos_Saren · November 2017

Blanco wrote: »

What is it with the mag dk wining. They do fine. Literally their own downside is their mobility is garbage. In every other area, they are more than fine. No class can have it all

Have you heard of our lord and savior: Sorc?

Betsararie · November 2017

jaburns wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

What is it with the mag dk wining. They do fine. Literally their own downside is their mobility is garbage. In every other area, they are more than fine. No class can have it all

Have you heard of our lord and savior: Sorc?

Yeah sorc is a middle of the road class that does well in various areas, but in the end only excels in mobility. Everything else it is middle of the road.

Damage is decent to bad, survivability is middle of the road, mobility is some of the best in game.

Koensol · November 2017

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Yes, that is balance if you add in the cp changes too. See everyone will be a nightblade there is your balance. Just like I will have a steady balance of ap from the stealthflakes, lol.

funny about NB is that they aint for everyone...while sorcs are a 3 button class.

That’s a pretty bold statement to make. Especially when there are more Nightblades than any other class in ESO. Especially in PvP. Which type of PvP? Take your pick. Lol. You’ll encounter them more than any other class in: BG, Cyrodiil, or duel requests.

So ummm... What was that about the class not being for everyone? I’m starting to even see more NB’s than DK’s in trials. In fact, most people will limit the amount of DK’s per trial nowadays to 1. Unless! Unless they need 2 chainers for VMoL. Outside of that, the limit is strictly 1.

Please show me the statistics behind your bold statement of there being more nightblades than any other class in Cyrodiil. Would love to see these numbers....

The statistics behind my bold statement? You don’t have to take my word for it, comrade. In fact, I would encourage the opposite. Simply just go see for yourself. Stuff like that has to be observed by one’s self in order to believe. So by all means, go see for yourself. However, I don’t quite see how you couldn’t know this already (assuming you actively play ESO regularly). But again, don’t take my word for it. Go stroll around Grahtwood a bit. Craglorn a bit. You know. The hubs. Go drop by Auridon and Glenumbra, and see what the typical class is that new players are using. Go visit a few dolmens and grind spots, and see for yourself which class is getting leveled the most. Go do a couple of random dungeons. Go see which type of DPS is it that shows up most frequently. And upon doing these things, please report back with your findings.

Here is something about me, for future reference. I always encourage people to go and see for themselves if what I’m claiming makes sense or not. Why? Because it is the only way to truly believe. What better proof is there, than seeing something for yourself? You know? Because otherwise, a person could just be pulling percentages and numbers out of nowhere. And be totally full of crap. Where as if a person goes out and observes it themselves, then there is a middle grounds to go off of. A basis to something that was witnessed by both sides of the debate/topic at hand.

Thanks for admitting your claims are as baseless as can be. I mean you can't honestly believe your anecdotal evidence has any form of weight, or do you? You are doing exactly what you describe, pulling numbers out of nowhere. Not that it is even relevant which class is being played the most. Popularity doesn't equal potency

Ch4mpTW · November 2017

Koensol wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Yes, that is balance if you add in the cp changes too. See everyone will be a nightblade there is your balance. Just like I will have a steady balance of ap from the stealthflakes, lol.

funny about NB is that they aint for everyone...while sorcs are a 3 button class.

That’s a pretty bold statement to make. Especially when there are more Nightblades than any other class in ESO. Especially in PvP. Which type of PvP? Take your pick. Lol. You’ll encounter them more than any other class in: BG, Cyrodiil, or duel requests.

So ummm... What was that about the class not being for everyone? I’m starting to even see more NB’s than DK’s in trials. In fact, most people will limit the amount of DK’s per trial nowadays to 1. Unless! Unless they need 2 chainers for VMoL. Outside of that, the limit is strictly 1.

Please show me the statistics behind your bold statement of there being more nightblades than any other class in Cyrodiil. Would love to see these numbers....

The statistics behind my bold statement? You don’t have to take my word for it, comrade. In fact, I would encourage the opposite. Simply just go see for yourself. Stuff like that has to be observed by one’s self in order to believe. So by all means, go see for yourself. However, I don’t quite see how you couldn’t know this already (assuming you actively play ESO regularly). But again, don’t take my word for it. Go ahead stroll around Grahtwood a bit. Craglorn a bit. You know. The hubs. Go drop by Auridon and Glenumbra, and see what the typical class is that new players are using. Go visit a few dolmens and grind spots, and see for yourself which class is getting leveled the most. Go do a couple of random dungeons. Go see which type of DPS is it that shows up most frequently. And upon doing these things, please report back with your findings.

Here is something about me, for future reference. I always encourage people to go and see for themselves if what I’m claiming makes sense or not. Why? Because it is the only way to truly believe. What better proof is there, than seeing something for yourself? You know? Because otherwise, a person could just be pulling percentages and numbers out of nowhere. And be totally full of crap. Where as if a person goes out and observes it themselves, then there is a middle grounds to go off of. A basis to something that was witnessed by both sides of the debate/topic at hand.

Thanks for admitting your claims are as baseless as can be. I mean you can't honestly believe your anecdotal evidence has any form of weight, or do you? You are doing exactly what you describe, pulling numbers out of nowhere. Not that it is even relevant which class is being played the most. Popularity doesn't equal potency

So riddle me this: Why aren’t there more magicka Wardens or Templars in general, IF popularity doesn’t equal potency? Certainly something is up, if people who aren’t very fond of assassin/rogue builds are choosing to steadily use a class that is based off of those very foundations. All the while continuing to do so for years, and even encourage others to.

Did a little experiment not too long ago, and asked folks which class they felt was the strongest regarding PvP. I asked this question in Auridon, Craglorn, Cyrodiil, and Grahtwood. And do you know which class came up the most? Nightblade. In fact, some people even made it clear that they hated the class. But, they went about rolling 1 due to overloaded the Nightblade kit was. Surprising really. And would you like to guess what the second most popular class was that folks named? Sorcerer. And the third? Templar. Followed by Dragonknight. Lastly was Warden.

Now then, why do you think this is? Hmm? Why in the world would both new and veteran players alike flock to a class, if popularity doesn’t essentially mean potency? Especially when some of these people don’t even like the class. They don’t like it from a lore perspective. They don’t like assassins. They don’t like the whole hit n’ run playstyle. Yet! They will use said class, and even recommend it day and night to others. Why is this?

Even better question. Why do you think I use a Nightblade over my Dragonknight when I want to farm AP quickly and or reliably? Especially when I don’t particularly like NB’s? In fact, I can’t stand the class. I think it’s cheesy and far too overtuned. Have always felt this way about said type of classes and builds regarding RPG’s. Whether it was: Archers, thieves, rogues, etc. Yet, I always had 1 regardless. Just for cheesing. Why would I do this?

We all know the answers to these questions, and we all know that Nightblades are the most popular class. We also know why it is that Nightblades are so popular. We can pretend to not know, and enter the realm of intentional ignorance. But then, that would defeat the point of even bothering to try and engage in intelligent conversation. Our dialogue would be watered down to a base of just making up things, and pretending like we don’t know. Essentially the whole “playing dumb” thing, and I’m certain we are more mature than that. C’mon now.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

As I Dk player I disagree on some parts.
mDk isnt weak in PvP standarts. Its mostly outdated, but It totally outperforms the stamina counterpart , since both stam/mag Dk are basically permablock dummies,mDK wins the sustain game.

magDk is also cancerous to play against with any stamina build.

Only stam build that can actually kill a magDk is an eternal hunt/fear spamming nightblade.

Both are ridicilously annoying to fight against.
Difference is that I can actually pop forward momentum+speed pot and get the hell away from the magDk,
(cus you simply arent gonna win vs a decent one,not without fear)

but a stamblade is just worst kind of cancer.
Im not even gonna describe how cancerous nightblades have become.
They have no counterplay,almost no weakness at all.

Yes they blow up they get caught in a bad position, like everyone else in medium
I don't get why zos always buffs nb for literally no good reason.