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Fix Expert Hunter
Samsquanch
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Can we make this ability and its morphs more comparable to Magelight? Right now, it kind of sucks [snip]. Nobody uses Evil Hunter. Some people use Camo Hunter but it is still lacking. While you're at it, you could probably revamp the other Fighters Guild skills too. The only one that ever gets used is Trap Beast.
[Edited to remove profanity]
Edited by ZOS_KatP on November 2, 2017 4:30PM [Edited to remove profanity]
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Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Samsquanch wrote: »Can we make this ability and its morphs more comparable to Magelight? Right now, it kind of sucks [snip]. Nobody uses Evil Hunter. Some people use Camo Hunter but it is still lacking. While you're at it, you could probably revamp the other Fighters Guild skills too. The only one that ever gets used is Trap Beast.
Conclusory opinions are nothing more than click bait .... a troll post.
[Edited for quote]Edited by ZOS_KatP on November 2, 2017 4:31PM1 -
Samsquanch✭✭Samsquanch wrote: »Can we make this ability and its morphs more comparable to Magelight? Right now, it kind of sucks [snip]. Nobody uses Evil Hunter. Some people use Camo Hunter but it is still lacking. While you're at it, you could probably revamp the other Fighters Guild skills too. The only one that ever gets used is Trap Beast.
Conclusory opinions are nothing more than click bate .... a troll post.
If only you knew how to spell "bait", then I might actually consider your opinion a valid one. Also, this is not a troll post, as Expert Hunter is definitely lackluster. Carry on.
[Edited for quote]Edited by ZOS_KatP on November 2, 2017 4:31PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you want stam skills to act like mag skills why not play mag?
Seriously, stam is outperforming mag in single target damage by a large margin. Might want to save this thread for when stam sucks.
EDIT: maybe we can reduce the damage from stam by 30% or more then make that skill act like inner light. Is that what you want?Edited by idk on November 2, 2017 12:47PM0 -
Samsquanch✭✭Nah man. I'm simply asking for a change to a skill that nobody uses. Do you ever see anyone using Fighters Guild skills other than Trap Beast and Dawnbreaker?
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Samsquanch✭✭If you want stam skills to act like mag skills why not play mag?
Seriously, stam is outperforming mag in single target damage by a large margin. Might want to save this thread for when stam sucks.
EDIT: maybe we can reduce the damage from stam by 30% or more then make that skill act like inner light. Is that what you want?
The game isn't all about single target damage either, dude. Some people prefer to do things like PvP and find nightblades in stealth, which is the UTILITY OF EXPERT HUNTER AND MAGELIGHT. Try using Expert Hunter to pull a nightblade out of stealth. You have to practically be on top of them. It just doesn't work well.3 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A reduced cost and/or increased range of the stealth detection of the base-skill would be nice as well. Another option would be to reduced the cost of all stamina abilities while slotted, and not just Fighters guild abilities while activated. Might be too strong so not a big cost-reduction, maybe 2-3% at it´s maximum.1 -
Samsquanch✭✭A reduced cost and/or increased range of the stealth detection of the base-skill would be nice as well. Another option would be to reduced the cost of all stamina abilities while slotted, and not just Fighters guild abilities while activated. Might be too strong so not a big cost-reduction, maybe 2-3% at it´s maximum.
I'd be perfectly fine with a reduced cost and increased range. That would be the only change I would need. Currently, both morphs cost the same amount (5400) of stamina as ONE of magelight's morphs (Inner Light - 5400). Radiant Magelight in the mean time has a reduced cost of 3780 magicka. Did the devs not make it so stamina morphs of class abilities cost less than magicka because the stamina resource pool is also used for things like sprinting, roll dodging, and blocking (minus with Frost Staves)? Therefore, the cost of a comparable reveal ability should cost less than its magicka counterpart as well.1 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Perhaps nobody 'uses' Expert Hunter but that doesn't mean they don't 'SLOT' it for the huge crit increase. I find it nice to have a passive skill on my bar because it means I don't have to button mash like a maniac trying to active umpteenth many abilities just to justify slotting them. Most builds actively use just a few of the slotted abilities, so having more 'active' ones isn't always useful because many times they don't actually get used anyway... at least having those with useful passive abilities bring something beneficial to the build.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭ZOS collects data on skills used, I wonder how many people don't even bother morphing Expert Hunter. In PVE it's mostly used just for the crit buff.2 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Samsquanch wrote: »Samsquanch wrote: »Can we make this ability and its morphs more comparable to Magelight? Right now, it kind of sucks [snip]. Nobody uses Evil Hunter. Some people use Camo Hunter but it is still lacking. While you're at it, you could probably revamp the other Fighters Guild skills too. The only one that ever gets used is Trap Beast.
Conclusory opinions are nothing more than click bate .... a troll post.
If only you knew how to spell "bait", then I might actually consider your opinion a valid one. Also, this is not a troll post, as Expert Hunter is definitely lackluster. Carry on.
I just got off of work, been up nearly 20 hours ... thank you so very much for pointing out my spelling faux pas (which, by the way, has been corrected).
If you want meaningful responses to a post such as this, it is most helpful to include why you feel the way you do about the skill, provide examples (even if the examples are hypothetical ones). A conclusory opinion with nothing factual to back it up, provides little to no direction for meaningful conversation. Why do you feel the way you do about it? What was disappointing about it, what situation(s) did you try using it in? What was the problem you experienced when you did use it?
You (incorrectly) state that Evil Hunter is used by no one. Basically, you are saying that, of the approximate 10 million ESO accounts worldwide, not one of them uses Evil Hunter. I use it, 75% of the time. I have seen several relatively recent ESO build videos where the streamer commented on the value of having Evil Hunter slotted.
You post concluded with a vague remark regarding revamping other Fighters Guild Skills too. The word 'other' is vague. You didn't say 'all other' ... just 'other.' What other? All of them? Some of them (if some, which ones)? What reasons do you have for wanting any other Fighter's Guild skill 'revamped?'
Again, because your post was so very vague/non specific, yes, I am calling it click-bait / troll post.
[Edited for quote]Edited by ZOS_KatP on November 2, 2017 4:32PM1 -
Samsquanch✭✭Samsquanch wrote: »Samsquanch wrote: »Can we make this ability and its morphs more comparable to Magelight? Right now, it kind of sucks [snip]. Nobody uses Evil Hunter. Some people use Camo Hunter but it is still lacking. While you're at it, you could probably revamp the other Fighters Guild skills too. The only one that ever gets used is Trap Beast.
Conclusory opinions are nothing more than click bate .... a troll post.
If only you knew how to spell "bait", then I might actually consider your opinion a valid one. Also, this is not a troll post, as Expert Hunter is definitely lackluster. Carry on.
I just got off of work, been up nearly 20 hours ... thank you so very much for pointing out my spelling faux pas (which, by the way, has been corrected).
If you want meaningful responses to a post such as this, it is most helpful to include why you feel the way you do about the skill, provide examples (even if the examples are hypothetical ones). A conclusory opinion with nothing factual to back it up, provides little to no direction for meaningful conversation. Why do you feel the way you do about it? What was disappointing about it, what situation(s) did you try using it in? What was the problem you experienced when you did use it?
You (incorrectly) state that Evil Hunter is used by no one. Basically, you are saying that, of the approximate 10 million ESO accounts worldwide, not one of them uses Evil Hunter. I use it, 75% of the time. I have seen several relatively recent ESO build videos where the streamer commented on the value of having Evil Hunter slotted.
You post concluded with a vague remark regarding revamping other Fighters Guild Skills too. The word 'other' is vague. You didn't say 'all other' ... just 'other.' What other? All of them? Some of them (if some, which ones)? What reasons do you have for wanting any other Fighter's Guild skill 'revamped?'
Again, because your post was so very vague/non specific, yes, I am calling it click-bait / troll post.
[Edited for quote]
I guess we're going to get literal here. I must have hit a nerve. How would you justify the utility of activating Evil Hunter? Having it slotted provides Major Savagery as well as a 3% weapon damage increase. These bonuses are certainly beneficial, but the cost of activation is too high for what the activation provides. Upon activation, Evil Hunter reveals hidden enemies in stealth and reduces the stamina costs of other Fighter's Guild abilities. If you're using the activated ability from Evil Hunter to reveal stealth enemies, then the skill offers questionable utility (the reveal is absolute crap, and anyone that has attempted to use it in PvP will second this). However, if you are using the activated ability from Evil Hunter to reduce the stamina costs of your other Fighters Guild abilities by 28%, then you're just wasting stamina.
E.g. Circle of Protection has a 7987 stamina cost, the highest stamina cost of any Fighter's Guild Skill. Having the highest cost, this skill should also have the highest savings with a percentage savings applied to it. 28 percent of 7987 is 2236. Why would you cast a skill that costs 5400 stamina to save 2236 stamina? That makes absolutely no sense.
I apologize profusely for stating that "nobody" uses Evil Hunter. I didn't realize that would be taken so literally. The only reason my response to you was short was because you so brazenly discounted my opinion.Edited by Samsquanch on November 3, 2017 6:35PM2 -
Samsquanch✭✭Furthermore, the duration of cost reduction and reveal radius offered by the activation of Evil Hunter only lasts 5 seconds. So, you cast a 5400 stamina cost skill for 5 seconds of 28 percent reduced cost on Fighter's Guild abilities. If you cast ALL of the remaining 3 Fighter's Guild abilities in that 5 seconds, you would only save a total of 4277 stamina. This still doesn't add up to the 5400 stamina it cost to originally achieve these savings.
See what I'm getting at here? Why even cast Evil Hunter in the first place? This morph, in the very least, should be reworked.
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SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah, no need to over explain. This skill and its morph are just horrible. And that is unrelated to the gain from slotting them (magelight has on slot effect too, yet the active and the on slot effects are much better)2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would suggest a stam regen component,
Or better yet, a mechanic similar to NBs spectral bow (something that charges then does something)
Silver Shards is interesting1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Oh yeah I forgot that move has morphs lol. Yeah expert hunter isn't really worth morphing. Save your skill point.0 -
DarkAedin✭✭✭✭✭I remember when this ability procced extra dmg on undead, werewolves, and vamps. It was useful back then for more then a bar slot passive.
But we are dealing with zos. Le sigh.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I was going to slot it (Evil) but I realized the 25% decreased cost to FG skills does not include the ultimate.
And Biting Jabs provides Major Savagery so that's the cherry on top.Edited by brandonv516 on November 3, 2017 11:00PM0 -
DoonerSeraph✭✭✭✭The simplest way to buff evil hunter would be to keep the cost reduction on fighters guild skills, but while slotted. The reveal is very bad indeed, 6m radius for both magelight and expert hunter. IMO it needs to be like... 8? Something around that.
Circle could use a cost reduction, its too expensive and yes, im considering the 20% reduction from the first passive. Or keeping the cost but adding some useful effect:
Circle of protection: Aside from minor protection and endurance, the circle pulses every 2 seconds dealing moderate physical damage to enemies.
Ring of preservation: The pulses also gives allies minor brutality and minor sorcery for 5 seconds.
Turn Undead: The pulses weaken daedra, undead and werewolves, inflicting them with minor maim and minor vulnerability.
I would change Lightweight Trap Beast too, to help with stam ranged builds, make the minor force buff last for 12 seconds, and spread the original dot on 12 seconds too, so rearming trap would deal double damage needing melee distance, while Lightweight deal normal damage at range.
Make silver leash a pull (without a second cast).1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DoonerSeraph wrote: »The simplest way to buff evil hunter would be to keep the cost reduction on fighters guild skills, but while slotted. The reveal is very bad indeed, 6m radius for both magelight and expert hunter. IMO it needs to be like... 8? Something around that.
Circle could use a cost reduction, its too expensive and yes, im considering the 20% reduction from the first passive. Or keeping the cost but adding some useful effect:
Circle of protection: Aside from minor protection and endurance, the circle pulses every 2 seconds dealing moderate physical damage to enemies.
Ring of preservation: The pulses also gives allies minor brutality and minor sorcery for 5 seconds.
Turn Undead: The pulses weaken daedra, undead and werewolves, inflicting them with minor maim and minor vulnerability.
I would change Lightweight Trap Beast too, to help with stam ranged builds, make the minor force buff last for 12 seconds, and spread the original dot on 12 seconds too, so rearming trap would deal double damage needing melee distance, while Lightweight deal normal damage at range.
Make silver leash a pull (without a second cast).
Bad, would remove incentive to bring dks and temps into the group, see wardens group passive, maturation and minor toughness being replacaded in warhorn and there is one less reason to have a warden in your group.
To the op, I use evil Hunter, I have it in the same slot on my front bar as trap beast on my back bar, as a stamblade, so if accidentally hit evil Hunter when I meant to hit trap, I get the cost reduction on trap when I hit it. I am aware that for max dps I ought not have evil Hunter slotted at all and use pots for major savagery, but I am too cheap to do that and I still get 25k to 30k dps, more then enough for all vet dungeons. I would like more use out of it, of course, but it is not completely useless as you have stated.
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DoonerSeraph✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »DoonerSeraph wrote: »The simplest way to buff evil hunter would be to keep the cost reduction on fighters guild skills, but while slotted. The reveal is very bad indeed, 6m radius for both magelight and expert hunter. IMO it needs to be like... 8? Something around that.
Circle could use a cost reduction, its too expensive and yes, im considering the 20% reduction from the first passive. Or keeping the cost but adding some useful effect:
Circle of protection: Aside from minor protection and endurance, the circle pulses every 2 seconds dealing moderate physical damage to enemies.
Ring of preservation: The pulses also gives allies minor brutality and minor sorcery for 5 seconds.
Turn Undead: The pulses weaken daedra, undead and werewolves, inflicting them with minor maim and minor vulnerability.
I would change Lightweight Trap Beast too, to help with stam ranged builds, make the minor force buff last for 12 seconds, and spread the original dot on 12 seconds too, so rearming trap would deal double damage needing melee distance, while Lightweight deal normal damage at range.
Make silver leash a pull (without a second cast).
Bad, would remove incentive to bring dks and temps into the group, see wardens group passive, maturation and minor toughness being replacaded in warhorn and there is one less reason to have a warden in your group.
To the op, I use evil Hunter, I have it in the same slot on my front bar as trap beast on my back bar, as a stamblade, so if accidentally hit evil Hunter when I meant to hit trap, I get the cost reduction on trap when I hit it. I am aware that for max dps I ought not have evil Hunter slotted at all and use pots for major savagery, but I am too cheap to do that and I still get 25k to 30k dps, more then enough for all vet dungeons. I would like more use out of it, of course, but it is not completely useless as you have stated.
Remember that you would need to be in the circle to get the buffs, while the buffs from DK and Templar are much easier to have access to.
It could be any other buffs in that circle tbh, I think minor berserk is overused, its already on combat prayer, any idea of a buff that could favor both magicka and stamina characters while not removing incentives to bring a certain class to the group?0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DoonerSeraph wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »DoonerSeraph wrote: »The simplest way to buff evil hunter would be to keep the cost reduction on fighters guild skills, but while slotted. The reveal is very bad indeed, 6m radius for both magelight and expert hunter. IMO it needs to be like... 8? Something around that.
Circle could use a cost reduction, its too expensive and yes, im considering the 20% reduction from the first passive. Or keeping the cost but adding some useful effect:
Circle of protection: Aside from minor protection and endurance, the circle pulses every 2 seconds dealing moderate physical damage to enemies.
Ring of preservation: The pulses also gives allies minor brutality and minor sorcery for 5 seconds.
Turn Undead: The pulses weaken daedra, undead and werewolves, inflicting them with minor maim and minor vulnerability.
I would change Lightweight Trap Beast too, to help with stam ranged builds, make the minor force buff last for 12 seconds, and spread the original dot on 12 seconds too, so rearming trap would deal double damage needing melee distance, while Lightweight deal normal damage at range.
Make silver leash a pull (without a second cast).
Bad, would remove incentive to bring dks and temps into the group, see wardens group passive, maturation and minor toughness being replacaded in warhorn and there is one less reason to have a warden in your group.
To the op, I use evil Hunter, I have it in the same slot on my front bar as trap beast on my back bar, as a stamblade, so if accidentally hit evil Hunter when I meant to hit trap, I get the cost reduction on trap when I hit it. I am aware that for max dps I ought not have evil Hunter slotted at all and use pots for major savagery, but I am too cheap to do that and I still get 25k to 30k dps, more then enough for all vet dungeons. I would like more use out of it, of course, but it is not completely useless as you have stated.
Remember that you would need to be in the circle to get the buffs, while the buffs from DK and Templar are much easier to have access to.
It could be any other buffs in that circle tbh, I think minor berserk is overused, its already on combat prayer, any idea of a buff that could favor both magicka and stamina characters while not removing incentives to bring a certain class to the group?
I think that skill is fine, it does what it is suppose to circle of protection is fine, the only thing it needs is a cost reduction, I see it as a group wide restoring focus, which costs only 1800 magic. Circle of protection ought to be at most 3k Stam. Before cost reduction. Then the skill would be usable by more then Stam users for the 8% Damage reduction and the Dodge roll cost reduction.
Silver shards ought to just do 100% damage to all 6 targets, not this half damage to five, would make it viable alternative to spaming acid spray. The other morph ought to just pull you to the target without the double cast.
I can't say what I would add to Hunter, I only play pve seriously and only have Hunter slotted on my NB, my other Stam classes have other ways to get major savagery and just 3% weapon damage is not enough of an incentive to slot the skill on any other class. Unlike inner light, which is on basically every may class I have bars. 7% max mag is huge. Maybe just put 5% max stam in the hunter too? Or 5% regen, something.
And really, I think that trapping webs needs to be changed to a posion dot with a synergy before anything get touched in the figthers guild.
Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on November 4, 2017 5:55AM0