No, horse mounts sometimes don't sprint right away. Sometimes they gallop for a moment first, but the wolf mounts (and others) sprint correctly more often. Also (this one is big) you can jump and land without drastically slowing down, or run off a ledge and land just fine. I'm not talking about the stupid Cyrodiil gophers, there's a lot of awkward movement coming from horses. Camels too I think, but definitely the Guar (tested on PTS).

Spiffyriffic wrote: »

....Unfortunately, once you buy even ONCE DLC, the value of Plus goes WAY down....

Unfortunately true.

Spiffyriffic wrote: »

When I started ESO, I didn't like the idea of losing content when I unsubscribed. I only wanted the full access everyone else had and didn't value the conveniences. Buying just one DLC is a much smaller commitment to a new game than paying a full MMO subscription right off the bat, yeah? Well, now I work nastier hours at work, and I understand the conveniences of ESO Plus better. Unfortunately, once you buy even ONCE DLC, the value of Plus goes WAY down. It's bad enough that a week after I bought Imperial City and Horns of Reach, the 4-pack came out to slap me in the face with a MUCH better deal. Very infuriating. I'm neck deep in waiting for crown sales and trying buy only what I need now. Except for one crown mount because all the horse mounts (and others) are glitched and don't move right...

This system seems a mess and to avoid wasting so much of my money, I'm now stuck unable to justify paying for Plus. A big loss for both the devs and myself.

The 4-pack has been available since well before Horns of the Reach was released. It's been available for at least a year, if not longer. But, yeah...I purchased Orsinium, TG, and DB at full price and not long after DB, they released the 4-pack. I spent 7000 Crowns on just those three, where I could have gotten them plus IC for less than what I paid. But, everyone who purchased the DLCs as they came out are in that boat.

I purchased them because I had decided to unsub due to issues on XB with ESO Plus. I've since subbed again, because the QOL perks are important to me. If having DLC access is the only reason you sub, then yes, the value would go down. For me, while I wish I hadn't purchased those three DLC packs or had at least waited until the G&G pack came out, there are other reasons that I sub, so ESO Plus still has a lot of value for me.

The things you already bought are sunk costs. It is also absurd that anyone playing since launch and subbing all that time would consider as part of the value of the sub access to Orsinium. That would be like being okay with paying hundreds for Orsinium access. You saved a lot of money not subbing in the past and buying outright, so future subs should be based on the value you get going forward.

And the decreasing price of almost everything is irrelevant to whether people got value when they bought something when it came out.

The reality is that ESO+ is about inventory management. 2 small DLC a year is a minor bonus to someone paying a sub all year.

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

The 4-pack has been available since well before Horns of the Reach was released.

My mistake, got my releases and deals mixed up. I'm basically in the same boat as you on what happened though.
...
It'd be nice if they had another cheaper ESO subscription service: one that offered most of the same benefits except for the DLC access. That way people who purchase the DLC still feel okay paying for a subscription.

You need to justify ESO plus? 1500 crowns a month justifies it, then on top of that you get the craft bag which in itself is worth my 15 a month and if that wasn't enough you get all the DLCs you don't have and all the bonuses to exp, gold and research timers. Plus you can dye your armor or costumes or both I cant remember I think its only costumes that you can with ESO plus.

EDIT: forgot about double bank space... Oh and did I mention the craft bag cause once you have experienced the craft bag you can not return to not having a craft bag!

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

At least that was my interpretation

it is cheaper to sub than to buy crowns. If I wanted 9000 crowns for example, it's cheaper for me to sub 180 days than it is to buy them outright. So I suppose if you never want to purchase anything, you'll see no value in ESO+.

I'm really glad people shared on this thread. I gave Blizzard $15/mo for WoW AND bought every expansion for years. I like ESO more and have only ever bought crowns on sale. It does still feel sort of wasteful to have spent crowns on DLC if I want to support via subscription, but I've made much worse mistakes than that before. The craft bag and bank space are also just... ugh, such a nice offer for someone who plays daily.

Everything else could be thought of as part of the game that I haven't cared to pay access for yet. Yeah something about this system may benefit from some polishing, but I think I'm paying for Plus regardless of buying most DLC already.

ESO Plus really depends on what you are doing in the game. The game is much larger than it used to be, and people can be doing a lot of different things. It isn't for everyone.

I am a long time ESO Plus subscriber, and I actually own the Thieves Guild DLC. I don't own any of the others. I don't normally do that, but that DLC is the one of the DLCs I would prioritize above all of the others. I don't feel that this diminishes ESO Plus, even a little. For me, ESO PLus value does not come from the DLCs.

The main reason I say that is that ESO Plus contains boatloads of DLC content that I am not using. I don't use Imperial City, Shadows of the Hist, or Horns of the Reach. I might go to Wrothgar once a month, but I am normally content to leave the Orcs to themselves. The only DLCs that I use all the time are Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild. If my ESO Plus depended upon DLC value, I would have stopped long ago and just purchased those two.

(Why didn't I buy Dark Brotherhood when I did buy Thieves Guild? The devs did a wonderful job with Hew's Bane and Abah's Landing. I feel this zone is well outside of "the box" in terms of concept. While they did a wonderful job with Anvil and Kvatch, my feeling is that they phoned it in with the rest of the Gold Coast. Outside of the Sanctuary, the Gold Coast is "flyover" country.)

Why do I still subscribe to ESO Plus? Mainly, it is the month-to-month convenience that it provides. I am almost always leveling a character, so the 10% bonuses are always useful. I am often collecting crafting materials, so the crafting bag is useful. I spend my Crowns on costumes, and I get to color them as I please. The 1500 Crowns/mo is enough to get by on this year.

If they had not added these things to ESO Plus, and had just made it a "free DLC" subscription, I would have already dropped it and just purchased the DLC outright. If DLC is the only reason someone is subscribing to ESO Plus, I can certainly agree that it is a better plan to buy the DLC and skip ESO Plus. (EDIT: Unless you are really into all the DLC content, but even then...)

ESO Plus is good value, if you need one of the elements.

I think of it as £9 a month for 1500 crowns the rest is free. However as a crafted i would pay purely for the crafting bag. So its a must.

For me the DLC access is a buy product. I hear you tho i bought Imp City and Wrothgar and incidentally they are the only DLC i actually like. But my business case on ESO Plus is already proven in other ways so its mega value.

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

At least that was my interpretation

it is cheaper to sub than to buy crowns. If I wanted 9000 crowns for example, it's cheaper for me to sub 180 days than it is to buy them outright. So I suppose if you never want to purchase anything, you'll see no value in ESO+.

Do people like you completely ignore the existence of crown sales? Because that's the only way I can explain your flawed math.

I think ESO+ is worth it even with dlc's bought. But for me that means occasional subbing, not constant. Short version: I cherry pick extra value months.

I bought the 4 dlc package back when I just started out never intending to sub. After that I still subbed: 2 times for a single month.

First time when they gave away up to 5 dwarven crates for being actively subscribed for 5 specific days in a row. I subbed that first day. That was a good deal to me that made me wanna try eso+ for a full month after all. Bank clear with all the stuff gathered all over my bank and alts suddenly went in the craft bag. Nice. I gathered stuff like crazy too that month. And I got 1500 crowns too and some fun stuff with the 5 crown crates. Good deal even with the dlc's already owned I though. Reaped the benefits from that still when ESO+ ended. Granted this month had extra ESO+ value, the 5 crates.

Went without for a while again. Though the craft mats shuffle across characters is a bit annoying it works for me (craft bag is always better ofcourse, but not needed).

Second month sub is ongoing at the moment as it again had extra value. Again instant bank clear, nice.And acces to a new map-content DLC. I started it the day CWC came out. Still 2,5 weeks left. I finished all I wanted in CWC. Will farm it till ESO+ runs out (well dailies atleast). I am also doing the 2 dungeon dlc's in this time when i have the chance to experience them. (hirst and what's it's name). I already decided I don't actually need CWC outright anymore, not enough value left in it for me to buy it outright (mainly due to the terrible furniture (recipes) drop rate). So saving my sub crowns.

And such those 2 month subs give me enough crowns to buy the next map-content DLC instantly if i don't feel like subbing then (not buying just dungeon ones). Or I might sub again for a month to try it out like I did with CWC. And might return to CWC and the dungeon DLC's for a bit then because I can anyway.