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NB Healer...what am I missing

krachall
krachall
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I've accepted the fact that I'm only interested in playing Nightblades. I'm not very good at them but I have 3 at CP level (Main PVE guy, PVP guy, and my original character who's resigned to crafting) and have only played the stam DPS role.

I wanted to branch out to something different...tried a DK Tank and a Templar healer and none kept my interest. But a magika NB? That sounds interesting! A magika NB in a healer role? Even more interesting! So I started one while the XP bonus was on and got to level 15 in a day. Now it's time to start figuring out how this thing works.

I read that one advantage magblades have, in a healing or other role, is...and I may have heard it wrong...damage mitigation? Damage reduction? Damage shields? Anyway, I looked through all those NB skill lines I don't use and I don't see anything resembling damage shields. Am I just missing it?

I see the healing skills in the siphoning line...is that, combined with Resto staff skills what a NB healer brings to the table?
Edited by krachall on November 1, 2017 8:30PM
  • WrathOfInnos
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    Veil of blades offers major protection, it is the shadow ultimate (don't recall unmorphed name). Nightblade healing is fun. There have been a few good threads on it recently, try searching and I'll link some if you can't find anything.
  • SoLooney
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    if youre not healing vet trials. then you should be fine
  • Psyonico
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    You also have access to some good CC that reduces incoming damage (fear, for example)
  • krachall
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    Ah, very cool. And, no, not planning on healing vet trials. I've done 3 vet trials so far and have zero interest whatsoever in healing them! I'll stick to DPS in those!
  • KRBMMO
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    krachall wrote: »
    I've accepted the fact that I'm only interested in playing Nightblades. I'm not very good at them but I have 3 at CP level (Main PVE guy, PVP guy, and my original character who's resigned to crafting) and have only played the stam DPS role.

    I wanted to branch out to something different...tried a DK Tank and a Templar healer and none kept my interest. But a magika NB? That sounds interesting! A magika NB in a healer role? Even more interesting! So I started one while the XP bonus was on and got to level 15 in a day. Now it's time to start figuring out how this thing works.

    I read that one advantage magblades have, in a healing or other role, is...and I may have heard it wrong...damage mitigation? Damage reduction? Damage shields? Anyway, I looked through all those NB skill lines I don't use and I don't see anything resembling damage shields. Am I just missing it?

    I see the healing skills in the siphoning line...is that, combined with Resto staff skills what a NB healer brings to the table?

    The thing about NB - especially Magblade - is you pretty much gotta run level 1-50 as your standard run-of-the-mill "sneaky backstab assassin" type.

    When you unlock the higher level skills, undaunted, and guild skills is when you can really start doing some original stuff.

    As for what skills? You have to think out of the box. Nothing is going to jump out at you as an obvious choice. For example, look at the siphoning passives: 8% max magica and 3% additional healing per ability slotted. So lets say you have a powered resto staff slotted to add to you healing with passives unlocked as well you have some pretty good healing. I haven't tried this yet, but in a PvE mob situation a theoretical combo might be to stand right behind a tank and cast refreshing path, malevolent offering on the tank and then sap essence to heal yourself.

    A "Heal Blade" is very counter intuitive and I'm not an expert but I can see how it could be done in theory.
  • ccfeeling
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    Stress test : cos , rom , wgt , icp HM .
  • Runefang
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    Nightblade's advantages in being a healer is that they can do DPS at the same time. Specifically Refreshing path and funnel Health. As they don't bring group wide buffs or important de-buffs they don't make good trial healers. I have healed the normal trials but never the vet ones, it'd be possible of course but its just not optimal.

    Other advantage is funnel health and refreshing path just provide even more hots from which SPC can proc. Combined with mutagen it guarantees a massive SPC up-time.

    My set up:
    5x SPC
    3x IA
    2x Troll King (not BiS but I find monster sets to be more interesting to have)
    Random staves until I get Maelstrom Destro/Master Resto

    Destro: Funnel Health / Sap Essence / Blockade / Elemental Drain / Inner Light / Soul Harvest
    Resto: Mutagen / Refreshing Path / Combat Prayer / Healing Ward / Siphoning Strikes / War Horn

    If I need healing springs then replace Sap Essence for Refreshing Path and put Healing Springs there instead.

    Fire staff is best when you want your own dps to be higher (better for normal dungeons when your group is generally not as good). Lightning staff is best when buffing the group becomes more important (vet dungeons where your group is actually good).

    Funnel health, Sap Essence and Refreshing Path bring enough healing to see you through most normal dungeons. Vet dungeons need a bit more healing done.
  • Tasear
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    SoLooney wrote: »
    if youre not healing vet trials. then you should be fine

    I don't know...>.> Isn't number 1 group using a nightblade healer?
  • Illurian
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    krachall wrote: »
    I read that one advantage magblades have, in a healing or other role, is...and I may have heard it wrong...damage mitigation? Damage reduction? Damage shields? Anyway, I looked through all those NB skill lines I don't use and I don't see anything resembling damage shields. Am I just missing it?

    Fairly sure the niche of Nightblade Healers is their damage output. Don't have one myself though, so I can't really say.
    Kiss the chaos.
  • exeeter702
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    krachall wrote: »
    Ah, very cool. And, no, not planning on healing vet trials. I've done 3 vet trials so far and have zero interest whatsoever in healing them! I'll stick to DPS in those!

    Well for what its worth you can easily heal vet trials, dont pay that comment any mind. But if you dont have a personal interest thats cool, just dont be dissuaded because you feel they are not equiped with the capability of soing so, which is objectively false.

    As someone who has main healed every peice if end game vet content as nightblade as as one that plays the class in the healer role more often than anything else, let me shed some light for you. Please eaxcuse the lengthy post

    As nb, you are not necessarily a mitigation healer as such you do not rely on damage shields, you are indeed not this games version of the wow discipline priest or 14 scholar. You are heavily hot based first and foremost. This is thanks to the following skills..

    Funnel health - this is your primary money maker, it generates your ultimate via the transfer passive, crits for 12-15k, applies a smart cast hot on an ally and lastly it contributes to your increased healing via the siphoner passive.

    Refreshing Path - this is the skill you place on the ground where your group is standing. It's hot ticks for twice as much as templars cleansing ritual and deals damage. It also keeps you durable thanks to shadow barrier passive.

    Sap essence - this is a potent aoe damage spell that also heals allies around you, contributes to your increased healing via siphoner, generates ultimate via transfer passive and grants you major sorcery. Note that you generally wont use this in trials that often but in dungeons it is a very solid option for expedient runs.

    Malevolent offering - a new tool added to nb's kit, this spell sacrifices a portion of your health and places a powerful single target HOT on the target. This will also give you minor mending for increased overall healing as well as benefit from both siphoner and transfer passives. Note that this skill is still not mandatory. As NB HPS in pve was never an issue even before the skill was added.

    Ultimate options are a bit varied for vet dungeons

    Soul siphon is an emergency group burst heal that as with all siphoning spells, will increase your healing done by having it on your bar. It is the only ability in the game that can give allies major vitality. It is a strong heal but often overkill.

    Veil of blades is a good ult for telegraphed moments where your group knows they need to stack, which in trials often means your group i stacking for healing springs anyways and since its major protection works well with templars major maim via nova. The synergy hot is pretty good but usually allies wont be a low health point when you use this.

    For the non class universal healing tools, its pretty straight forward. For vet dungeons, mutagen > healing springs, ill stress this, do not waste a slot on springs in vet dungeons and do not listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. You absolutely, positively do NOT need springs in 4 man content as a NB, period.

    Mutagen for sure, you layer this in with funnel health and path redreshing and your general healing is covered for vet dungeons. Then both healing ward and combat prayer are flexible depending on your group. If you have 2 NBs you really dont need it. In trials you may or may not need it depensing on your other healer. Healing ward is a nice single target emergency oh *** button, however depending on your group and when you begin to trust your hots and get more comfortable, you will find it becomes less and less of a necessity.

    Ele drain and orbs are great but again, if your group is solid, resource utility in vet dungeons is mostly try hard and overkill status. And the tank generally applies fracture and breach. In trials however orbs is very good as it had the ability to cover a very large application range. Mutlitple orbs cam be placed while you resume healing vs a templars shards which, while much faster and precise, only works on a single target per cast meaning to reach as many targets as orbs would, the templar has to suspend healing for a longer window.

    Lightning wall of elements in vet dungeons is always welcomed, even with a sorc in group. Aim for a charged lighting spc staff, it is bis for you there.

    As far as sets are concerned, in vet dungeons, for the love of god do not roll up as a try hard trial healer... you dont need springs, orbs and ele drain and thus you do NOT need worm cult. Spc front bar and then you can really decide. Since spc is the proc and swap, there are only a few options if you want to run a monster set. Otherwise 1pc monster set and 2 5pc persistent sets is the go to, generally take a solid dps set. For trials however you will want either worm, healing mage or inventors. Generally in trials you are not afforded the luxury of a 2pc monster set.

    Remember the siphoner passive.. funnel health, siphoning attacks, sap essence and soul siphon is a massive healing boost on your front bar. Even just 3 skills on your bar outweighs minor mending.

    Edited by exeeter702 on November 2, 2017 4:46PM
  • krachall
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    Great info!! Thanks!

    Exeeter, can you give me an idea of what your front and back bars look like to heal a vet dungeon (not a trial). Assume flame/resto staff and what your rotation may be?
    Edited by krachall on November 2, 2017 8:11PM
  • SirAndy
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    KRBMMO wrote: »
    The thing about NB - especially Magblade - is you pretty much gotta run level 1-50 as your standard run-of-the-mill "sneaky backstab assassin" type
    Not true, my Stamblade has been a in-your-face brawler since level 1. Not a single "sneaky" skill on either of her bars.
    shades.gif
  • WrathOfInnos
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    You will want SPC on your armor pieces so you can keep good uptime. Someone mentioned an SPC staff, which I would advise against. Jewelry is ok, but cannot be gold quality (purple max) so bonus is better on gold armor.

    Other than that one detail, I would say there's a lot of good advice in this thread.
  • KRBMMO
    KRBMMO
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    KRBMMO wrote: »
    The thing about NB - especially Magblade - is you pretty much gotta run level 1-50 as your standard run-of-the-mill "sneaky backstab assassin" type
    Not true, my Stamblade has been a in-your-face brawler since level 1. Not a single "sneaky" skill on either of her bars.
    shades.gif

    Really? So you never ever ever put a skill point into cloak? Even on a Stamblade Cloak + Veiled strike is a good combo until you put enough attribute points into stamina to actually be considered a "stamina" build. I mean below level 15 there's not much difference as far as attributes go.
  • SirAndy
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    KRBMMO wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    KRBMMO wrote: »
    The thing about NB - especially Magblade - is you pretty much gotta run level 1-50 as your standard run-of-the-mill "sneaky backstab assassin" type
    Not true, my Stamblade has been a in-your-face brawler since level 1. Not a single "sneaky" skill on either of her bars.
    shades.gif
    Really? So you never ever ever put a skill point into cloak? Even on a Stamblade Cloak + Veiled strike is a good combo until you put enough attribute points into stamina to actually be considered a "stamina" build. I mean below level 15 there's not much difference as far as attributes go.

    Well, i did level all skills (Class, Weapons and Armor), including all morphs, just in case i ever want/need to respec.
    But that was just a quick and dirty skill grind, i never used them for any real game play.

    So no, i have neither Cloak nor Veiled Strike on my bars.
    ninja.gif
    Edited by SirAndy on November 2, 2017 9:33PM
  • exeeter702
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    krachall wrote: »
    Great info!! Thanks!

    Exeeter, can you give me an idea of what your front and back bars look like to heal a vet dungeon (not a trial). Assume flame/resto staff and what your rotation may be?

    Here you go, just whipped this together, hope it helps

    pGG5l8p.png

    Just keep refreshing path, mutagen and funnel health ticks up. Combat prayer when possible and make sure major sorc and ele wall doesnt drop off either. Nothing special really. Just need to learn to trust your hots and not overwrite a strong funnel health with a weaker one. If you get back to back fat funnel health crits, let them cook.

    The hardest part is just making sure you are minimizing heal and buff duration drop offs. SPC will be up almost indefinitely so you dont have to pay that any mind really.
    Edited by exeeter702 on November 2, 2017 11:11PM
  • Koensol
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    Hey there @krachall ! A fellow NB healer here. I think @exeeter702 has already covered most of what there is to say. I will just share with you a specific rotation that I usually use in fights, to ensure my hots keep rolling and buffs are kept up.

    Rotation at the start of the fight will be something like: siphoning strikes, rapid regen x2, combat prayer, light attack+sap essence, light attack+refreshing path, light attack+elemental blockade, light attack funnel health x3 (so its up on everyone). Then do one or 2 resto heavies for major mending and magicka regen, or do some more light attack+funnel health for more dps. Then repeat. Hot uptime is crucial and failing to do so will result in situations where you have to resort to healing ward/springs (if you have them slotted that is).
  • JoeVertigo
    Very informative thread. Anyone could share their thoughts about CP allocation?
  • datgladiatah
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    Do you guys usually put refreshing path in the front or back bar? The rotation feels hard to use because the duration is a little lower than mutagen... but I really want to put healthy offering/funnel health/combat prayer on the front bar so idk
  • exeeter702
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    Do you guys usually put refreshing path in the front or back bar? The rotation feels hard to use because the duration is a little lower than mutagen... but I really want to put healthy offering/funnel health/combat prayer on the front bar so idk

    As i said, its not a strict proper rotation. You are not dpsing. And duration timings for path dont have to "line up" with anything. This is the wrong way to approach it.

    My graphic made is a relatively sure fire setup. Path on back or front is fine. You are never on one bar for more than 8 seconds anyways. As well, mutagen isnt something you refresh at the ends of its duration. Its volatile nature means you are going to recast it often. When it procs on low hp for example, mine crits for 12k on me.

    DO refresh when needed.
    DO NOT to line up durations of all skills.

    I would STRONGLY recommend against your proposed front bar setup. One thing that most players dont know is that funnel health benefits both from healing done and damge done. Increased healing modifiers will push your funnel health to 30 percent of damage done up from 25 percent on top of the damage it does initially. Nb front bar should always be destro with at LEAST 2 siphoning abilities. Because of this, combat prayer should never be on the same bar as funnel health.

    You want funnel to spike hard, at least 12k crits then let its hot do its work, which bar swaping provides benefits in both passives and ability load out.
    Edited by exeeter702 on November 13, 2017 6:52PM
  • WillhelmBlack
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    NB's are awesome at healing 12+. I like Ward Ally in those oh crap moments.

    Argonian is best.

    Sets I like:

    Sentinel of Rkugamz
    Mothers Sorrow
    Necropotance
    Spell Power Cure
    Combat Physician (4 man)
    Lich
    Sanctuary
    Worm Cult.
    PC EU
  • krachall
    krachall
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    Do you guys usually put refreshing path in the front or back bar? The rotation feels hard to use because the duration is a little lower than mutagen... but I really want to put healthy offering/funnel health/combat prayer on the front bar so idk

    I have Refreshing path on my DPS bar (destro staff) right now. Since it's damage + heal, it feels right on that bar. I do swap a lot
    NB's are awesome at healing 12+. I like Ward Ally in those oh crap moments.

    Argonian is best.

    Sets I like:

    Sentinel of Rkugamz
    Mothers Sorrow
    Necropotance
    Spell Power Cure
    Combat Physician (4 man)
    Lich
    Sanctuary
    Worm Cult.

    My NB healer is almost 50 and I'm working on his starter set. Right now, I'll be 5x Mother's Sorrow, 5x Seducer, and 1x Monster. Haven't decided which monster helm yet. I've got 4-5 in the bank that give some sort of magicka bonus but nothing better right now.
    Edited by krachall on November 13, 2017 7:13PM
  • Runefang
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    krachall wrote: »
    Do you guys usually put refreshing path in the front or back bar? The rotation feels hard to use because the duration is a little lower than mutagen... but I really want to put healthy offering/funnel health/combat prayer on the front bar so idk

    I have Refreshing path on my DPS bar (destro staff) right now. Since it's damage + heal, it feels right on that bar. I do swap a lot
    NB's are awesome at healing 12+. I like Ward Ally in those oh crap moments.

    Argonian is best.

    Sets I like:

    Sentinel of Rkugamz
    Mothers Sorrow
    Necropotance
    Spell Power Cure
    Combat Physician (4 man)
    Lich
    Sanctuary
    Worm Cult.

    My NB healer is almost 50 and I'm working on his starter set. Right now, I'll be 5x Mother's Sorrow, 5x Seducer, and 1x Monster. Haven't decided which monster helm yet. I've got 4-5 in the bank that give some sort of magicka bonus but nothing better right now.

    Spell Power Cure is the highest priority (assuming you're 160CP), the uptime for an NB is incredible with the number of constant dots. For the second set any DPS set will serve you well, personally I like Julianos the best as its well balanced in terms of what it provides. Juli also gives you the chance at both a heavy and medium piece. If you run a single monster helm I'd get Molag Kena personally.

    My NB healer personally runs Troll King x 2, SPC x 5, Infallible Mage x 3 and a random staff (to be vma staff one day...). All divines with The Thief mundus. I'm pretty close to critting funnel health at 15k damage and healing for 5k. On a good, lag free day I can hit 16k dps. I'm considering dropping Troll King though, it's nice in a few specific fights where there is massive AoE but generally I feel like more dps would be better.
  • krachall
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    Runefang wrote: »
    . If you run a single monster helm I'd get Molag Kena

    My NB healer personally runs Troll King x 2, SPC x 5, Infallible Mage x 3 and a random staff (to be vma staff one day...). All divines with The Thief mundus. I'm pretty close to critting funnel health at 15k damage and healing for 5k. On a good, lag free day I can hit 16k dps. I'm considering dropping Troll King though, it's nice in a few specific fights where there is massive AoE but generally I feel like more dps would be better.

    I’m currently running 5x Seducer, 4x Mother’s Sorrow, and 2x Velkyn Skoria. But the Velkyn doesn’t process as much as I’d like. I’m close to a set of SPC but what’s a better monster set to run with it? I do like the health bonus of Valkyn.

    I wasn’t impressed with molag Kena. Can’t decide if I should go 5/5/1 or 5/4/2.

    It seems Magicka Regen is NOT a problem so 5/4/2 may be best.
  • Runefang
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    krachall wrote: »
    Runefang wrote: »
    . If you run a single monster helm I'd get Molag Kena

    My NB healer personally runs Troll King x 2, SPC x 5, Infallible Mage x 3 and a random staff (to be vma staff one day...). All divines with The Thief mundus. I'm pretty close to critting funnel health at 15k damage and healing for 5k. On a good, lag free day I can hit 16k dps. I'm considering dropping Troll King though, it's nice in a few specific fights where there is massive AoE but generally I feel like more dps would be better.

    I’m currently running 5x Seducer, 4x Mother’s Sorrow, and 2x Velkyn Skoria. But the Velkyn doesn’t process as much as I’d like. I’m close to a set of SPC but what’s a better monster set to run with it? I do like the health bonus of Valkyn.

    I wasn’t impressed with molag Kena. Can’t decide if I should go 5/5/1 or 5/4/2.

    It seems Magicka Regen is NOT a problem so 5/4/2 may be best.

    Given you need to have the 5 set piece be SPC I think 5/5/1 is better so you can run a real 5-piece DPS set alongside it.

    Otherwise you need to run 5x SPC, 3x Trial Set, 2x Monster Set + VMA staff. This is the optimal set up as far as my testing as gone.
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