Interesting Read - MMO Psychology

StackonClown · October 2017

i have a sinking feeling this thread will get locked - hope not.
I find this to be a fascinating topic...

StackonClown · October 2017

MajinCry wrote: »

What would you expect from a corporation, who's CEO has a background in managing finances for Saudi royalty, and removed the CTO from the company? His wikipedia's a doozey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Altman

Guy's a disgraced criminal banker, who's forbidden by the US Federal Reserve from ever again engaging in banking.

Not exactly a Fred Rogers type.

Chris Weaver did some cool stuff early on with games like Gridiron etc with a physics based framework

TelvanniWizard · October 2017

Scam crates. No more to say.

Tavore1138 · October 2017

idk wrote: »

MMOs are not like casinos, they just use the same psychology.

Thing is, it does not work unless players submit to it.

StackonClown wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

Not 'choosing to take part' shouldn't prevent us from making comment or discussing this topic does it?

It does not appear Woeler, the comment you quoted, says you cannot comment on it.

I think the point is that the techniques are designed to bypass the rational thought process to appeal to other parts of the brain that are not so rational. That's why otherwise intelligent and rational people can fall prey to bad decision making and addiction in many forms.

Beardimus · October 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

People need "studies" to tell them that? Maybe that's the real problem ...

SPOT ON.
"Company uses Marketing to make money" YIKES!!!

StackonClown · October 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

People need "studies" to tell them that? Maybe that's the real problem ...

SPOT ON.
"Company uses Marketing to make money" YIKES!!!

I personally dont feel this discussion is about marketing perse - its about the study and application of addictive aspects of human behaviour to structure MMO games to keep (*some) people playing and hopefully paying for as long as possible - so eventually 'the house wins'

Jade1986 · October 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

That is ignoring the fact that some people have addiction problems. So putting stuff like this in a video game is very very irresponsible.

I'm sorry, but I won't live my life worrying about everyone else's problems. If you have a gambling problem, go get yourself some help - it's not my (or ZoS') problem, and to take away someone else's potential entertainment enjoyment because you can't get your own life in order is very very irresponsible as well. Take some personal responsibility for your life and quit asking the rest of the world to do it for you.

I don't like smacking my nutsack with a hammer so you know what? I don't do it. And sadly yes, I DO have the data to back up that statement...

You cant get rid of addiction issues. They are genetically engrained into your biology. Even if you kick a habit, it is irresponsible of a video game company to wave gambling right in front of the audiences nose. Yeesh some people are empathy impaired.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

I find it a little ironic that people talk about addiction when it comes to gambling in video games but forget that you have be addicted to video games in the first place to get addicted that.

That simply isnt true. You could play a whole 1 hour a day, or less, and see that there is a gambling system in place, then you get hooked to that in itself. That is the nature of addiction issues. It is just irresponsible of gaming companies to do this.

Beardimus · October 2017

^ I disagree. Games are addictive in their own right, which is as much of a problem. Isolating addiction to just the crown crate side is nonsense.

Most marketing deals in addiction, or the lure of the better life from something. From the latest iPhone, to food, to clothing, its all a lure. "if I get this item my life 'may' feel better"

Singling out crates loses this argument. I came here hoping to read something interesting about games being addictive in general. This attack on crown crates is getting old now, its just another marketing scheme.

Like kids sticker packs where they have to collect them all etc - there are plenty of things out there to test impulse.

Burning hundreds of thousands of hours on a video game in addiction or this forum, that's a bugger worry. As constant phone use has become normalized in society and that's a bigger issue than a private company making a buck to support the game for the rest of us.

Bouldercleave · November 2017

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

That is ignoring the fact that some people have addiction problems. So putting stuff like this in a video game is very very irresponsible.

I'm sorry, but I won't live my life worrying about everyone else's problems. If you have a gambling problem, go get yourself some help - it's not my (or ZoS') problem, and to take away someone else's potential entertainment enjoyment because you can't get your own life in order is very very irresponsible as well. Take some personal responsibility for your life and quit asking the rest of the world to do it for you.

I don't like smacking my nutsack with a hammer so you know what? I don't do it. And sadly yes, I DO have the data to back up that statement...

They put these things in the game BECAUSE they know people have gambling addictions. And I honestly dont know what kind of help you think there is if you think someone can "get help" and simply continue to expose themselves to the very things they are addicted too. YOU might want to educate yourself before you go spouting off some nonsense like anyone expecting little ole you the unimportant player to worry about anyone else. Youre free not to take part in the discussion if youre going to be abrasive and handwave the discussion.

Did I hurt your feelings?

I have the right take part in any discussion that I want on a public forum. Just because I don't jump on the bandwagon like all of the sensitive sheep doesn't lessen my opinion. If we eliminated all exposure to anything that anyone can become addicted to, what is left?

No-

Alcahol
pot
gambling
***

the list goes on and on. In your eyes, I guess that we all just get to sit in a dark room alone for fear of triggering someone's "issues"

The hell with that.

Bouldercleave · November 2017

laced wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

That is ignoring the fact that some people have addiction problems. So putting stuff like this in a video game is very very irresponsible.

I'm sorry, but I won't live my life worrying about everyone else's problems. If you have a gambling problem, go get yourself some help - it's not my (or ZoS') problem, and to take away someone else's potential entertainment enjoyment because you can't get your own life in order is very very irresponsible as well. Take some personal responsibility for your life and quit asking the rest of the world to do it for you.

I don't like smacking my nutsack with a hammer so you know what? I don't do it. And sadly yes, I DO have the data to back up that statement...

You cant get rid of addiction issues. They are genetically engrained into your biology. Even if you kick a habit, it is irresponsible of a video game company to wave gambling right in front of the audiences nose. Yeesh some people are empathy impaired.

So we should shut down ALL casinos, football pools, most all online gaming, etc.

Yes I'm empathy impaired because I feel that your problems should not have to be the burden of the masses. FAR too many people use the "addiction is a disease" crutch as an excuse for their own personal failures. You can control addiction issues - I have seen it in full effect. To say that it can't just leads us down a path to further mental weakness.

I refuse to accept that.

Jade1986 · November 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

That is ignoring the fact that some people have addiction problems. So putting stuff like this in a video game is very very irresponsible.

I'm sorry, but I won't live my life worrying about everyone else's problems. If you have a gambling problem, go get yourself some help - it's not my (or ZoS') problem, and to take away someone else's potential entertainment enjoyment because you can't get your own life in order is very very irresponsible as well. Take some personal responsibility for your life and quit asking the rest of the world to do it for you.

I don't like smacking my nutsack with a hammer so you know what? I don't do it. And sadly yes, I DO have the data to back up that statement...

You cant get rid of addiction issues. They are genetically engrained into your biology. Even if you kick a habit, it is irresponsible of a video game company to wave gambling right in front of the audiences nose. Yeesh some people are empathy impaired.

So we should shut down ALL casinos, football pools, most all online gaming, etc.

Yes I'm empathy impaired because I feel that your problems should not have to be the burden of the masses. FAR too many people use the "addiction is a disease" crutch as an excuse for their own personal failures. You can control addiction issues - I have seen it in full effect. To say that it can't just leads us down a path to further mental weakness.

I refuse to accept that.

Where did I say it was my problem, I was advocating for the people that do have a problem. And addiction is not a "crutch" it is something that has been proven to be engrained into our genetics. If your parents were addicts, you are much more likely to struggle with it IF you ever develop an addiction. Playing a video game is just doing something for fun, you know what youa re paying for and you get what you are paying for. Crown crates however are all down to RNG which is all a game of chance, which is exactly what gambling is, and there is no reason to add them into the game other than to prey on people with gambling issues or addiction issues in general.

Football pools, casinos, online gambling is not thrust in your face when you start up your favorite pass time. If I go to the gym, I am not getting flyers thrown in my face to gamble at the slot machine that is following me around the room. Stop using false equivelancies and show some compassion. The only mental weakness I see is antisocial and sociopathic people who think preying on other peoples problems is totally ok. We are not in the 50s anymore.

Jade1986 · November 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

^ I disagree. Games are addictive in their own right, which is as much of a problem. Isolating addiction to just the crown crate side is nonsense.

Most marketing deals in addiction, or the lure of the better life from something. From the latest iPhone, to food, to clothing, its all a lure. "if I get this item my life 'may' feel better"

Singling out crates loses this argument. I came here hoping to read something interesting about games being addictive in general. This attack on crown crates is getting old now, its just another marketing scheme.

Like kids sticker packs where they have to collect them all etc - there are plenty of things out there to test impulse.

Burning hundreds of thousands of hours on a video game in addiction or this forum, that's a bugger worry. As constant phone use has become normalized in society and that's a bigger issue than a private company making a buck to support the game for the rest of us.

Playing a game you pay for, and knowing exactly what you are getting for your money is one thing, thrusting a gambling system into someones face when they log in with no way of knowing what they get is -exactly- like slot machines, roulette or black jack. It will also create a future generation of people who will develop gambling issues, because instead of focusing on stuff that is cut and dry, you get this mount for this amount of crowns end of story, they are focusing on something that literally caters to gambling addicts and people with genetic addiction issues.

Cadbury · November 2017

When does the blame shift from a company to the actual person? Wherein does the accountability lie?

Jade1986 · November 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

When does the blame shift from a company to the actual person? Wherein does the accountability lie?

Its like a drug dealer going to an addiction group and waving drugs in the peoples faces, and then people blame the addicts for the whole situation.

Spacemonkey · November 2017

StackonClown wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

People need "studies" to tell them that? Maybe that's the real problem ...

SPOT ON.
"Company uses Marketing to make money" YIKES!!!

I personally dont feel this discussion is about marketing perse - its about the study and application of addictive aspects of human behaviour to structure MMO games to keep (*some) people playing and hopefully paying for as long as possible - so eventually 'the house wins'

What exactly do you think 'Marketing' is?

Balamoor · November 2017

The usual suspects beating the usual dead horse.

Cadbury · November 2017

laced wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

When does the blame shift from a company to the actual person? Wherein does the accountability lie?

Its like a drug dealer going to an addiction group and waving drugs in the peoples faces, and then people blame the addicts for the whole situation.

The problem however is that this line of thinking can easily slide into Martyr Complex territory.

Hallothiel · November 2017

As much as I dislike crown crates & this way of getting cosmetic items, I don't feel that they are shoved in my face whenever I log in to play. In fact I generally don't remember they exist.

Yes, there are people who have a problem with addiction & it is unhelpful to belittle that BUT there is also a tendency to abrogate any personal responsibility & blame everything / one else. Need a balance.

Bouldercleave · November 2017

laced wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

When does the blame shift from a company to the actual person? Wherein does the accountability lie?

Its like a drug dealer going to an addiction group and waving drugs in the peoples faces, and then people blame the addicts for the whole situation.

No it is not.

Tomg999 · November 2017

laced wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

When does the blame shift from a company to the actual person? Wherein does the accountability lie?

Its like a drug dealer going to an addiction group and waving drugs in the peoples faces, and then people blame the addicts for the whole situation.

I too, strongly disagree with the analogy.
I'm 25 years sober. I don't begrudge someone opening a bar, or selling drinks at an upscale movie theatre or the ballgame, which may be a better analogy. If I have a problem with a substance or activity, then I have a problem and many people don't.

Anyone with a gambling problem has many opportunities to discover that fact. Once they do, they would avoid casinos, lottery tickets etc. And if they stumbled upon a gambling temptation (for them) that could be an issue in their favorite video game, they would need to recognize it and avoid it.
I don't use Listerine, someone with a gambling problem maybe should stay away from Crown Crates.

Jade1986 · November 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

When does the blame shift from a company to the actual person? Wherein does the accountability lie?

Its like a drug dealer going to an addiction group and waving drugs in the peoples faces, and then people blame the addicts for the whole situation.

The problem however is that this line of thinking can easily slide into Martyr Complex territory.

That's true, but was there really any REASON to bring that kind of system into this game? I mean, there really wasn't, they could have offered all the stuff you get with crown crystals and in crown crates through the store and people would have known what they get for their money instead of getting shoehorned into gambling.

Jade1986 · November 2017

Tomg999 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

When does the blame shift from a company to the actual person? Wherein does the accountability lie?

Its like a drug dealer going to an addiction group and waving drugs in the peoples faces, and then people blame the addicts for the whole situation.

I too, strongly disagree with the analogy.
I'm 25 years sober. I don't begrudge someone opening a bar, or selling drinks at an upscale movie theatre or the ballgame, which may be a better analogy. If I have a problem with a substance or activity, then I have a problem and many people don't.

Anyone with a gambling problem has many opportunities to discover that fact. Once they do, they would avoid casinos, lottery tickets etc. And if they stumbled upon a gambling temptation (for them) that could be an issue in their favorite video game, they would need to recognize it and avoid it.
I don't use Listerine, someone with a gambling problem maybe should stay away from Crown Crates.

You're right, they should stay away from them, but getting it shoved in your face every time you log in isn't helping.

Jade1986 · November 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

When does the blame shift from a company to the actual person? Wherein does the accountability lie?

Its like a drug dealer going to an addiction group and waving drugs in the peoples faces, and then people blame the addicts for the whole situation.

No it is not.

People come to video games to have fun, to get distracted. Crown crates were never part of the package at first. So they invest time and money into the game. Then all of a sudden crown crates come in, which were highly unpopular in the first place. They see that and think, ok, I will just avoid that. Now though, they are literally shoved in your face the second you open the launcher, and when you log into your toon. The temptation is incredibly high. So the analogy fits. No one goes to an AA meeting to get alcohol waved in their faces, and if somewhere down the line someone thought it was a good idea to bring alcohol to the meeting to strengthen the peoples resolve, that could only end in disaster. There is no reason for crown crates other than to prey on people with gambling problems, or to create gambling problems for people.

ZOS_CoriJ · November 2017

While a discussion on general game culture is interesting, this isn't on topic for this forum. "General ESO Discussion" is meant for the discussion of the ESO game.