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MagBlade or StamBlade - Which is More Viable & Why?

Storymaster
Storymaster
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I am trying to figure out which I should go with? My Bosmer has to be a nightblade and I'm finding that no build comes anywhere close to StamSorc when it comes to PVE overland mow-through. I didn't expect a Nightblade build to equate to StamSorc, but to not even be in the same league is mind-blowing. Am I doing something wrong or is Nightblade just a lost cause?
Edited by Storymaster on October 30, 2017 5:43PM
Character Profiles:
Puck Tanglevine - Bosmer Nightblade
Cyron Kane - Imperial Dragonknight (Retired)

MagBlade or StamBlade - Which is More Viable & Why? 69 votes

MagBlade
49%
WuffyCeruleiAzuryas7732425ub17_ESOThestephenmcraeub17_ESOTilleroeshiGorillaT3hasiangodRagnaroek93Deepblue962TonturriXvorgZolronShadowDiscipleApheriusDausaltemrielbinhoCloudlessDrake383The_Lex 34 votes
StamBlade
39%
BeastnasIruil_ESOczarMagnus Augustus CaesarCillion3117Tamorandvamp_emilyAlurueBrutusmax1musAriades_swexRichh94JeffdkcMustardGrand_JuryNarvuntiengrannas211NyassaVNymeria23Apache_KidLittlePinkDot 27 votes
Nightblade is for Fools
11%
twest35b16_ESOAektannDorohedoesp1992Rex-UmbraccfeelinghuschdeguddzjePodwawelski 8 votes
  • Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO
    MagBlade
    I think magblade is very easy to play and effective in PvE. Stamblade is good for PvP ganking, it's a bit more of a glass cannon build. But I've seen people pulling like 35k dps on a 3mil dummy with a PvE stamblade. Whichever one you think is cooler/more fun to play, go for that. They're both viable and effective in endgame content
  • Tilleroeshi
    MagBlade
    Magblades can spam shields so you can focus your gear on more damage without sacrificing defenses.
  • fred4
    fred4
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    I've only played magblade. It's a very versatile class that has a lot of AOE damage potential for overland mow-through. You'd use things like Sap Essence, Twisting Path, Elemental Blockade, and the destro ult.

    I saw a stamblade do an Imperial City boss in 1 1/2 minutes, which put his DPS at around 30K. I don't know anything about stamblade rotation, unfortunately. He used bow on the back bar, of course, and I imagine a dual wield front bar. Any trash mob build would include Arrow Barrage (or the other morph) and Steel Tornado. As you say, those skills are open to stamsorc as well. Not sure what is specifically good about stamblades for AOE. Veil of Blades, maybe.

    You will probably want to buff yourself with Relentless Focus. Surprise Attack cuts resistances, as does Mark. Incap Strike increases your damage by 20% for 6 seconds. Nightblades achieve their full potential by incorporating their relatively short acting buffs and passives, both offensive and defensive, into their rotation. Correct bar setup is also important. As a magblade having a siphoning skill on each bar is important for 8% extra magica. As any nightblade, having an Assassination skill on each bar is important to increase your critical damage.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • rossk25
    rossk25
    ✭✭
    MagBlade
    I play a magblade and love it. They are very survavable and do some pretty mean dmg. I love to use twisting path with elemental blockade and that alone really helps keep his DPS up. I have soloed quite alot of content with my magblade.
    Bosmer Stamina Templar - Bow/DW
    Dunmer Magicka DK - Dest/Resto staff
    Breton Magicka NB - [Dest/DW PvE] [Dest/Resto PvP]
    Bosmer Stamina Warden - Bow/2H
  • fred4
    fred4
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    For more stam AOE / DOT: Caltrops. Saw that stamblade doing it, actually.

    And Rearming Trap for single target.
    Edited by fred4 on October 31, 2017 6:37AM
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Short answer is both are about the same when you know what you are doing.


    Long answer is are you trying to play a nightblade like a sorcerer? That is your problem. In overland pve you need to play to the strength of the NB. Steath. Slot shadowy disguise and suprise attack, suprise attack stuns for four seconds and shadow disguise is a guaranteed crit. Even as a stamblade you ought to be able to cloak three times before you are out of magic and that is usually the amount of mobs you will come accross. Get some sneak improveing armor like http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Night_Mother's_Embrace and http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Night_Terror_(set) the latter will help you if you actually get hit to survive.

  • Azurya
    Azurya
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    MagBlade
    Stam sucks, no love for stamina by ZOS
    all weapon abilities got nerfed, you are not competitive

    so choose a magblade and dance through all and everything
    Fear not, for I am watchful. You have been chosen.
    Azura, the Daedric Prince of Moonshadow, Mother of the Rose, and Queen of the Night Sky


    Hail to Sithis, blood's drop on blade's edge.
    Before you, nothing. Behind you, the Void.
    Catalyst, agitator, many-fanged maw.
    Whisper your need to the Scales.
    — Inscription found on an Argonian blade
  • altemriel
    altemriel
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    MagBlade
    I am trying to figure out which I should go with? My Bosmer has to be a nightblade and I'm finding that no build comes anywhere close to StamSorc when it comes to PVE overland mow-through. I didn't expect a Nightblade build to equate to StamSorc, but to not even be in the same league is mind-blowing. Am I doing something wrong or is Nightblade just a lost cause?


    Khajiit is a magblade and pretty much enjoying it meowz!!!


    this PVE build:
    https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-nightblade-build-pve/
    *********************************************************************************************************************************************
    Haishi Daikodarajen, Redguard, Stamina Dragonknight, CPs around 600, Damage dealer, Huntress of Hircine
    ** Her story (click here)**

    **Her image - click here**
    ""It's one thing to see your past from present memory. It is entirely another to step through the Dragon and be yourself remembering the present in the past as the future."
    - Karstine Zeterra (2E)


    **********************************************************************************************************************************************
    Maoimii Da, Khajiit Magicka Nightblade, CPs around 600, master enchanter, damage dealer, elder vampire shade of death
    ** Her story (click here)**
    **Her image - click here**
    "May you walk on warm sands!
    Maoimii


    meowz!!



    ****************************************************************************************************************************************************
    PC, EU

    **Ideas for making this game even more fun: Click here

  • Storymaster
    Storymaster
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @altemriel @Azurya @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO @fred4 @rossk25 @Tilleroeshi @Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

    Thank you all. I really appreciate you taking the time to provide some perspective and feedback! I feel better now and have a way to move forward with my beloved char.
    Character Profiles:
    Puck Tanglevine - Bosmer Nightblade
    Cyron Kane - Imperial Dragonknight (Retired)
  • Azurya
    Azurya
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    MagBlade
    @Storymaster

    the builds for NB by @Gilliamtherogue , mag and stam, on Youtube( https://www.youtube.com/user/Scrubmydinner), with links to anything written are great to start off with.
    when you feel good, and doing fine then you can start turning it more into your own build, for your needs and for what you wanna do!
    Have fun!
    Fear not, for I am watchful. You have been chosen.
    Azura, the Daedric Prince of Moonshadow, Mother of the Rose, and Queen of the Night Sky


    Hail to Sithis, blood's drop on blade's edge.
    Before you, nothing. Behind you, the Void.
    Catalyst, agitator, many-fanged maw.
    Whisper your need to the Scales.
    — Inscription found on an Argonian blade
  • Storymaster
    Storymaster
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you so much, @Azurya !
    Character Profiles:
    Puck Tanglevine - Bosmer Nightblade
    Cyron Kane - Imperial Dragonknight (Retired)
  • fred4
    fred4
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    In overland pve you need to play to the strength of the NB. Steath. Slot shadowy disguise and suprise attack, suprise attack stuns for four seconds and shadow disguise is a guaranteed crit.
    Honestly, the stun from Veiled Strike and guaranteed crit from Shadowy are only good for PvP. You don't really gank NPCs, except maybe for fun. Doing this in a prolonged fight would be a DPS loss for sure.

    If you're fighting Daedra or Undead, I recommend an Infused weapon with Prismatic enchant for single targets. Hits every 2 seconds, and crits will do something like 14K. My weapon of choice for Imperial City bosses, and because of the many vampires in PvP, who it will hit for up to around 5K.

    A thing to note about Shadowy Disguise is that it makes all your heals crit, all of them, not just the first one, while it's active. On the other hand the guaranteed crit for attacks is hard to access. If you have any DOTs (damage over time) running on an enemy, a DOT tick is very likely to consume the guaranteed crit frm Shadowy, not the hard-hitting Suprise Attack, Death Stroke or Spectral Bow you want to crit.

    In overland content, Cloak is simply useful, if you want to bypass fights. For example you might cloak through an entire delve, fetch the skyshard, and get out again undetected. That's how you do it when you have multiple characters and gotten bored with the overland stuff. The magicka morph, Concealed Weapon, will also increase your running speed.
    PC EU, Stamina DK (EP), Magicka NB (EP), Magicka Warden (EP), Magicka Templar (EP). Occasionally: Stamina Templar (EP), Stamina NB (AD), Stamina Sorcerer (DC)
  • NotNormanBates
    NotNormanBates
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    Why are people still saying magic is better than stam?
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    fred4 wrote: »
    In overland pve you need to play to the strength of the NB. Steath. Slot shadowy disguise and suprise attack, suprise attack stuns for four seconds and shadow disguise is a guaranteed crit.
    Honestly, the stun from Veiled Strike and guaranteed crit from Shadowy are only good for PvP. You don't really gank NPCs, except maybe for fun. Doing this in a prolonged fight would be a DPS loss for sure.

    If you're fighting Daedra or Undead, I recommend an Infused weapon with Prismatic enchant for single targets. Hits every 2 seconds, and crits will do something like 14K. My weapon of choice for Imperial City bosses, and because of the many vampires in PvP, who it will hit for up to around 5K.

    A thing to note about Shadowy Disguise is that it makes all your heals crit, all of them, not just the first one, while it's active. On the other hand the guaranteed crit for attacks is hard to access. If you have any DOTs (damage over time) running on an enemy, a DOT tick is very likely to consume the guaranteed crit frm Shadowy, not the hard-hitting Suprise Attack, Death Stroke or Spectral Bow you want to crit.

    In overland content, Cloak is simply useful, if you want to bypass fights. For example you might cloak through an entire delve, fetch the skyshard, and get out again undetected. That's how you do it when you have multiple characters and gotten bored with the overland stuff. The magicka morph, Concealed Weapon, will also increase your running speed.

    Have you played a NB? Cloak and veiled strike (either morph) are amazing in overland pve, the mobs are dead before they can react. Four seconds is forever and if you can't put out 30k(most overland mobs have this amount of health) damage in four seconds then you need to look at how you play. That is just 7.25 dps. Again, you need to play the strength of the class you are on. I had the easiest time playing overland pve on a NB, both stam and mag nb, after I sloted just those two skills.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on October 31, 2017 10:13PM
  • Jrk
    Jrk
    StamBlade
    I have been playing for a few months now & have been immersing myself with testing things, asking those more experienced & coming here for tested info (within a year's time w/ recent patches in mind.) I've been playing a straight stamblade through & through. From what I hear magblades and sorcs have their own potential in their own ways; their damage typically being greater because of better working layers of AOE.

    As a dual wield stamblade, you definitely have higher crit possibilities; getting a good deal of it from passives (aim 70-75% with pots running & shadow) without needing it on set bonuses & allowing more room for damage bonuses. But ultimately damage comes from multiplicative modifiers. Thaumaturge is a prime example as it is multiplicative on it's own & affects all Dots. Poison Injection with it's 'up to 260% more damage' translates to having the possibility of a x3.6 multiplier. That's only part of it. Legendary Weapons are BIS for a reason; some can take a skill and dramatically increase it's damage to scale differently. Endless Hail is strong mainly because its damage updates over time, allowing you to use main bar values to increase it's damage. The bow takes that strong base and really cranks out it's output; all the mechanics listed above (and many not) and your Hail now competes with Injection in being one of your main damage dealers. The same goes for both maelstrom & master daggers. Maelstrom lets you boost Injection, whereas Master scales Twin Slashes to just do considerably more damage. Still, daggers with a maelstrom bow leaves you with 3 huge damage dealers; Twin Slashes, Poison Injection, Endless Hail. The aim (for most I've heard) is maelstrom daggers to further boost injection.
    __________________________________

    The point with that John Madden obvious rant is that the main damage dealers (attacks with huge multipliers in place) are all dots. Even with clockwork weapons, all dot based. That's part of the reason it seems dual wield is outperforming 2handed for stamblades in Pve; With Thaumaturge alone you affect all of them, least in single target damage. Steel Tornado is a good aoe, but alone as a direct attack (even with Master at arms CP) it doesn't really start to shine until the adds are already at 50%; if one or two out of a bunch are lower, they'll take more damage to burn them down, but everything else at 80-100% health are taking meh damage.
    __________________________________

    Now I've been messing around with 2handers and it has definitely been fun. I dual wielded for all the PvP I've done & I definitely see the potential in Cyrodill. For Pve, I've been running Vets no problem, however all that I've read & heard is 2H dps in trials (mainly for nightblade) is not really sought/taken or competes with dual wield. From the bit above, that makes sense. Since starting my 2handed quest, I've made it a goal to find optimal 2handed dps for stamblades in PvE. The first step was Reverse Slice or Executioner.

    Executioner takes your x4 multiplier & makes it x4.5. For single target, that seems smashing. However how often are encounters just 1 boss with no adds? Sometimes, but generally fights have adds. Cleave is a decent damage for a concentration of adds. I first saw a stamblade going trap, surprise attack, cleave & using executioner to burn any adds at 50% one at a time. That seemed ok, but from figuring multipliers, Reverse slice is so much better. The reason is the same multiplier that Executioner is exerting is now expressed via AOE. Whereas DW has hail, injection & twin slashes as it's main contenders (and yes I know trap; its on both styles & doesn't have a special weapon), 2handed users' powerhouse attacks are 2 dots and a direct damage dealer. Because you have your main AOE direct hit stemming from damage scaled on a single target, whereas tornado's damage scales individually per target. This has even greater possibilities with Reaper's mark.
    __________________________________

    Here's how I see this working (and always correct me if wrong, I'm simplifying the *** out of this for conceptual sake):

    Example:

    You have 5 adds. Surprise attack your FF (focus fire [add]), you launch hail, you inject your FF, trap, cleave, all dots and the kitchen sink. The FF hits 50% while the rest of the group is above 90% and it's time to start Slicing.

    Your Slice Alone (remember, bad example) hits for 5k.
    To compare, surprise attack (main direct damage attack for DW until 25%) is hitting for 7.5k & Steel Tornado at full Hp is hitting for 4.5k, 9k with less than 50% hp.

    Slice when the add is under 50% hits up to 20k. Adds around your FF are getting hit for 13k. FF dies. Now by chance you marked that *** sometime before he died. You now have Major Berserk running to clean up the rest of the group. Your new FF hits for 25k, the remaining 3 adds are hit for 16.25k. They may have changed forceful to not double dip & crit, but this 16.25 aoe attack does.

    With the dots/aoe running, this is the trick to huge burst AOE. In a fight with a boss that continually spawn weak ass adds, you are able to focus the add down faster with huge direct damage supported by hail & injection. At the same time, the splash maintains decent direct damage on the boss (stronger than tornado) & the marked dead add allows you clear adds with the above technique or (if a lone add) get a temporary boost on the boss till the next add spawns n dies.
    _________________________

    This is my endgame dream:

    http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=31540

    Enchants & Weapons:
    You can infuse your mainhand & go +damage for smoother 10 second rotations. However, with an alternating rotation you can switch to the infused +damage to the backbar & have nirnhoned on the main. That means every 5 seconds you have a mainbar spellswap, spell LA+spellswap. 1st cycle caltrops hail, 2nd mirage/mark (rotate mark w/ mirage if Breaching boss for party) & injection, repeat) If using a greatsword, your weapon damage is through the roof.

    But comparing 2handers to daggers (and this nirnhoned setup) axes are the way to go. With DW, you morph for steel tornado, but lose any melee proc chances for any setup as your AOE extends past 7 meters. With 2H, your cleave and Reverse Slice both have an AOE spread of Axe bleeds. The only issue I have been mulling over is the weapon enchant for the main hand. There is no cooldown reduction, Armor pen is in a good spot & crusher with a 10 second cooldown doesn't seem tempting. thinking either Poison, Stam leech or even hardening (2nd bubble layer to make up for lack of blade cloak & glyphs to affect hail/injection/RSlice.) What do you think?
    The other big pro I see to 2H is not in just combining injection with a huge direct damage dealer, but the Ultimate regen that the Asylum 2handers offer for reverse slice (at 50% heath). Sure Maelstrom daggers are buffing your injection twin slashes by 20%, with greater results below 50% hp, but being able to roll your assassination Ult into your rotation from 50-0% is monumental! Aside from increasing hail, injection & RSlice, it covers all your other direct & Dot damage; cleavex2, axe bleeds, trapx2, caltropsx2, Relentless Focus proc & LA/HA's.

    With imperfect weapons & no minor heroism from cleave or decisive traits, it would take 4 Rslices in a 6 second window to reach 70 ult. If using the Deadly set with perfect weapons, you need 45 ult from 3 Rslices & the 18 that generates naturally to reach 63 ult in 6 seconds. With whatever setup you choose, you'll need to tinker to get good results.
    _______________________

    This concludes my morning stamblade vent/rant.......end of line.

  • Everstorm
    Everstorm
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    I play both and both are just fine for overworld massacres. For soloing dungeons and stuff the magblade has the edge because of tons of selfhealing and shields.
  • s7732425ub17_ESO
    s7732425ub17_ESO
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    MagBlade
    Magblade is on par with magsorc in the ability to easily solo a bunch of content.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    ✭✭
    @jrk just a couple of things, as a NB, you don't need to use anything but brawler from two hander, stamblades have a better execute then reverse slice, killers blade and better AOE then it too, power extraction, you also get major brutality from power extraction too, so you don't need rally, if you don't use pots.


    Also I am 100% sure steel torando procs axe bleeds.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on November 28, 2017 11:10PM
  • Jrk
    Jrk
    StamBlade
    @jrk just a couple of things, as a NB, you don't need to use anything but brawler from two hander, stamblades have a better execute then reverse slice, killers blade and better AOE then it too, power extraction, you also get major brutality from power extraction too, so you don't need rally, if you don't use pots.


    Also I am 100% sure steel torando procs axe bleeds.

    K...Killer's Blade is nice as it adds a flat 300% at 25%, but you're getting about the same at that point with Reverse slice, or correct me if I'm wrong. That and being usable at 50% vs 25%. I'm just not seeing how killers blade, besides being cheaper, is better than Reverse Slice.

    I do use pots explicitly, Major Brutality, Endurance & Savagery; all in one & off the skillbar. Power Extraction, Hidden Blade & Rally lose their edges with that in mind.

    The point I was trying to make is some skills/item combos have multipliers that let them do insane damage in certain scenarios; +300% for the add being under 50% HP is the first that comes to mind. These combos for stamblades are mainly limited to single target dots. Maelstrom Bow is BiS because it changes the mechanic of the adaptive ground AOE DoT.

    But for AOE direct damage, the only stam skills I know that have a multiplier to it is Whirlwind & Reverse Slash when morphed.
    __________
    Edit: Titanic Cleave converts the Direct Damage portion of Cleave; optimized with 6 adds in range being hit. On a solo boss it's meh. With one or two adds it starts to add up. The scaling is relative to density proximity vs current target's HP. Both weapons compared, on a single target you'll get +1500 to cleave about every 10 seconds (refresh dot) & with Disciplined slash you don't start noticing ult gen until the execute damage starts kicking in; 50%. On most fights that have adds, both weapons are useful. Slash can focus fire adds (the single add you're executing is getting hit much harder than a titanic cleave; and in turn you generate ult while the boss is at 95% ) with splash damage on the boss & adds that's stronger than a non-titanic cleave. Titanic lets you boost cleave damage, increasing direct aoe on the boss and adds.
    ____________
    Whirlwind doesn't really take full effect until under 50% health, and it's merely a x2 at most. As you're focusing a group of 5, it's multiplier isn't doing much on the whole group minus the one add being focused & at lower health. With 2handed, you cleave to get dots out & whittle the initial group, but once the 1st add is at 50% (even without major beserk from mark) your Reverse Slash is going to hit the group A LOT harder than Brawler or Power Extraction. Test it yourself.

    Also I know for a fact Steel Tornado does not proc axe bleeds. I'm not going to trace the initial testing posts I found (we all can do the legwork), but I tested myself to confirm. It goes from this: "Each axe gives your melee attacks a 8% chance to bleed enemies" When Whirlwind is not morphed or whirling blades, your attack radius is 5 meters. The max range for melee attacks is 7 meters. Steel Tornado is 9 meters. Test it.
    ____________________
    Going off the edit, it really comes down to how important ult generation & skill costs are. Slash costs 2160 (1620 w/ passives & 5 medium) Cleave costs 3240 (2430). An 810 difference, not ground breaking.



    Edited by Jrk on November 29, 2017 12:30AM
  • charley222
    charley222
    ✭✭✭✭
    stamina = crap
    your blood feed my rage
    the path of the berserker 666
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    My Bosmer stamblade is a wonderful thief. But he's tedious at best in PvE fights.

    Since he's a thief, he has Concealed Weapon and hence not the other morph, but that doesn't feel like it would make a huge difference on its own.

    I just took my magblade out of mothballs recently, and she's surprisingly strong. And she's Dunmer, which is a decent race choice but not the best.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    ✭✭
    @jrk I did test it, when I was testing power extraction vs steel tornado, they both proced the axe bleed, I did this like a month ago. Distance has nothing to do with it.


    did some more testing and here are the results.

    VOvWmZH.jpg


    Ota0wS6.jpg
    ignore that light attack, it did not proc the bleed and if you don't believe me, i would be more then willing to do another for you.


    The reason to run killers blade over reverse slice is that you get the full bonus damage right away at 24%, you get an extra 2% crit for having it slotted, you get an extra 10% crit hit damage for having it slotted, with reverse slice, the damage scales linearly, ie you get 3% bonus damage at 49% health, 150% at 25% and you only get the full 300% bonus damage at 1% health. The splash Damage can't crit, like with power extraction, which you get 2 ulti for casting, every 4 seconds. Power extraction also procs weapon enchants and bleeds from axes. The skill Also can proc the disease status effect, so free dps there. Power extraction is a very underrated skill.


    No one would use carve over brawler either, the ulti gen is nothing compared to the survaibiltiy a up to 19k shield gives you.


    Looking at your "end game dream", you don't have leeching strikes, you simply will need this skill to sustain. Blur/mirage has no place in endgame pve and Mark target is only good for trash pull, most bosses don't die fast enough or have enough adds for the five seconds of Major berzerk to matter. you ought to have Soul Harvest in pve more then incap too, on your front bar, the ulti gen is more then worth the loss in damage, 10 ulti everytime you kill something is incredible. maybe switch around for dawndraker on bosses but even with Soul Harvest on your from bar, that is another 2% crit. you also have advancing yokeda for some reason. that is a junk set, you lose so much stam from the jewelry from it being heavy armor and you only get 9.13% crit from it fully buffed, you might as well use http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Leviathan, it gives the almost same amount, 2000(9.13%) vs 1924(8.78%) but it is always there and you don't need to build up to it and you get another 3% crit from the 2 pieces of medium you get to wearing stead of heavy.


    The way you phrase things is also very strange, talking about multipliers and stuff, I simply have to think that English is not your native language.


    @FrancisCrawford dunmer is the best magic race right now.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on November 29, 2017 9:32AM
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    StamBlade
    Stamblade has higher ceiling and a lower floor.

    Mageblade is a very ulitlity based class in PVE, its providing alots of different things to a group, nice AoE and a lot of bonus healing.

    Stamblade brings damage and a lot of it, but its by far the hardest class to play in PVE, To hit the high highs you need to hit every single light attack or your dps drops a ton.

    I just can't get anywhere near good dps because I have 300 ping and trying to animation cancel means I cancel my light attacks. I do more dps if I let all my animations play.
  • NyassaV
    NyassaV
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    StamBlade
    You have a Bosmer, play to your strengths
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Alliance General
    She/Her ~ PC/NA
    ESOFam Community Discord: https://discord.gg/gMntMb8
    I record things for fun and for info
    https://youtube.com/channel/UC0WuLVnsW177WKkKcvNuuYA
  • Flameheart
    Flameheart
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    Azurya wrote: »
    Stam sucks, no love for stamina by ZOS
    all weapon abilities got nerfed, you are not competitive

    so choose a magblade and dance through all and everything

    huh?

    ..insightful is the new lol me seems.
    Sometimes the prey turns and nips us... it's a small thing.

    So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from existence, we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.

    Selissi - CP 1k+ Redguard Stamina Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
    Silmerel - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Templar (Ebonheart Pact)
    Sunja - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
    Suldreni - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight (Ebonheart Pact)
    Sulhelka - CP 1k+ Altmer Magicka Sorcerer (Ebonheart Pact)
    Sylundine - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Warden (Ebonheart Pact)







  • Bladerunner1
    Bladerunner1
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    Are you talking about survivability or just speed at killing overland mobs?

    Magblades can self heal a lot while dpsing multiple targets with refreshing path and spamming sap essence. I tried it for a bit on my Bosmer, but it felt too mushy. I was missing the satisfying high impact of direct damage skills.

    For mowing down overland mobs, how does a StamSorc have it's own league just from a skill? Are you talking about weak mobs or overland bosses? Bosmer nightblades can deliver the biggest damage out of stealth and usually one-shot a weak mob
    Jrk wrote: »
    @jrk just a couple of things, as a NB, you don't need to use anything but brawler from two hander, stamblades have a better execute then reverse slice, killers blade and better AOE then it too, power extraction, you also get major brutality from power extraction too, so you don't need rally, if you don't use pots.


    Also I am 100% sure steel torando procs axe bleeds.

    K...Killer's Blade is nice as it adds a flat 300% at 25%, but you're getting about the same at that point with Reverse slice, or correct me if I'm wrong. That and being usable at 50% vs 25%. I'm just not seeing how killers blade, besides being cheaper, is better than Reverse Slice.

    I do use pots explicitly, Major Brutality, Endurance & Savagery; all in one & off the skillbar. Power Extraction, Hidden Blade & Rally lose their edges with that in mind.

    The point I was trying to make is some skills/item combos have multipliers that let them do insane damage in certain scenarios; +300% for the add being under 50% HP is the first that comes to mind. These combos for stamblades are mainly limited to single target dots. Maelstrom Bow is BiS because it changes the mechanic of the adaptive ground AOE DoT.

    But for AOE direct damage, the only stam skills I know that have a multiplier to it is Whirlwind & Reverse Slash when morphed.
    __________
    Edit: Titanic Cleave converts the Direct Damage portion of Cleave; optimized with 6 adds in range being hit. On a solo boss it's meh. With one or two adds it starts to add up. The scaling is relative to density proximity vs current target's HP. Both weapons compared, on a single target you'll get +1500 to cleave about every 10 seconds (refresh dot) & with Disciplined slash you don't start noticing ult gen until the execute damage starts kicking in; 50%. On most fights that have adds, both weapons are useful. Slash can focus fire adds (the single add you're executing is getting hit much harder than a titanic cleave; and in turn you generate ult while the boss is at 95% ) with splash damage on the boss & adds that's stronger than a non-titanic cleave. Titanic lets you boost cleave damage, increasing direct aoe on the boss and adds.
    ____________
    Whirlwind doesn't really take full effect until under 50% health, and it's merely a x2 at most. As you're focusing a group of 5, it's multiplier isn't doing much on the whole group minus the one add being focused & at lower health. With 2handed, you cleave to get dots out & whittle the initial group, but once the 1st add is at 50% (even without major beserk from mark) your Reverse Slash is going to hit the group A LOT harder than Brawler or Power Extraction. Test it yourself.

    Also I know for a fact Steel Tornado does not proc axe bleeds. I'm not going to trace the initial testing posts I found (we all can do the legwork), but I tested myself to confirm. It goes from this: "Each axe gives your melee attacks a 8% chance to bleed enemies" When Whirlwind is not morphed or whirling blades, your attack radius is 5 meters. The max range for melee attacks is 7 meters. Steel Tornado is 9 meters. Test it.
    ____________________
    Going off the edit, it really comes down to how important ult generation & skill costs are. Slash costs 2160 (1620 w/ passives & 5 medium) Cleave costs 3240 (2430). An 810 difference, not ground breaking.



    Funny thing about the axe bleed steel tornado thing, I tested a little over a month ago and ST appeared to be proccing bleeds. Tested it again a few days ago on my DK and it wasn't. I'm not sure why it happened, but something was proccing it a ton.

    As for which AOE skills when running 2H I usually pick them all. PE for 8 meter damage, RS on executes for huge 5 meter damage and brawler for decent cone damage and a big shield to Leroy Jenkins my way through dungeons. I'm only happy when every trash mob is angry at me.
  • vamp_emily
    vamp_emily
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    StamBlade
    OP if you are a Bosmer, I would definitely go with a stam NB.

    If you want a friend, get a dog.

  • LittlePinkDot
    LittlePinkDot
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    StamBlade
    Oooooh do the siphoning abilities that heal have their healing increased by the Argonian racial passive?
  • Jrk
    Jrk
    StamBlade
    @jrk I did test it, when I was testing power extraction vs steel tornado, they both proced the axe bleed, I did this like a month ago. Distance has nothing to do with it.


    did some more testing and here are the results.

    ignore that light attack, it did not proc the bleed and if you don't believe me, i would be more then willing to do another for you.

    I believe you, thank you for that (and god I wish I had that UI.)
    The reason to run killers blade over reverse slice is that you get the full bonus damage right away at 24%, you get an extra 2% crit for having it slotted, you get an extra 10% crit hit damage for having it slotted, with reverse slice, the damage scales linearly, ie you get 3% bonus damage at 49% health, 150% at 25% and you only get the full 300% bonus damage at 1% health. The splash Damage can't crit, like with power extraction, which you get 2 ulti for casting, every 4 seconds. Power extraction also procs weapon enchants and bleeds from axes. The skill Also can proc the disease status effect, so free dps there. Power extraction is a very underrated skill.


    No one would use carve over brawler either, the ulti gen is nothing compared to the survaibiltiy a up to 19k shield gives you.
    I did some dungeons with that setup and I understand you completely now. Killer's is too valuable for static buffs to your rotation. I.E. the crit & the minor maim proc chance you mentioned, not to mention the magicka/health regen on kills. I still feel Slash is a stronger, cheaper, wider-hitting AOE direct damager than a non-titanic cleave, but it doesn't really have a place until the add is well under 40% for the splash to shine.
    Looking at your "end game dream", you don't have leeching strikes, you simply will need this skill to sustain. Blur/mirage has no place in endgame pve and Mark target is only good for trash pull, most bosses don't die fast enough or have enough adds for the five seconds of Major berzerk to matter. you ought to have Soul Harvest in pve more then incap too, on your front bar, the ulti gen is more then worth the loss in damage, 10 ulti everytime you kill something is incredible. maybe switch around for dawndraker on bosses but even with Soul Harvest on your from bar, that is another 2% crit. you also have advancing yokeda for some reason. that is a junk set, you lose so much stam from the jewelry from it being heavy armor and you only get 9.13% crit from it fully buffed, you might as well use http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Leviathan, it gives the almost same amount, 2000(9.13%) vs 1924(8.78%) but it is always there and you don't need to build up to it and you get another 3% crit from the 2 pieces of medium you get to wearing stead of heavy.
    Lol, that was really a former dual wield end game dream, converted to 2handed, and that was before they changed maelstrom & master weapons; when you could get results with only 1 dagger. The reason for zerker over leviathan was a few reasons. For starters, it had slightly more crit & a 129 damage bonus vs the 1096 stamina. Second & more importantly it was a procced buff that retained when bar swapping. For single target DoTs (minus the dynamic changes to poison injection) they go off the damage, armor pen & stamina of your bar you're on when it hits. If there is a delay between the cast & the actual hit, then bar swapping is viable.

    Crit works different. All of your dots' crit chance update with the bar you're on. In a dual wield setup you can have 1 or both hands equipped with a zerker weapon, bar swap & return to your main bar without losing the crit buff. It does take a second to stack to 2000, but once it's there & you swap efficiently, there should be no reason it drops. If you're in a scenario where you have to mainly deal ranged damage & melee isn't an option, then you're already at a disadvantage. Your backbar lower weapon damage will hit for less and your mainbar dots fall off along a second or three after your crit buff. In application I don't think that specific scenario will be that detrimental from the buff falling, but I may be wrong. With the zerker set 5 piece being limited to the mainbar, this also allows for a 2nd armor set with either a monster set on both bars, or a 3-piece set on the back bar for whatever reason. This is all obvious to you I take it; I'm just telling you where my head is at. I thought the set would have a niche with 2 handers (as they struggle for crit without precise & armor set bonuses) but it would seem only when you are lacking a trial/arena weapon. Then again the available 2 handers are fairly crap, minus the cleave one that scales well on density. If you had to run a 2 handed nightblade on a single target without arena weapons, would a +9 crit that carries over to the back bar be worth it?

    I'm strongly considering going back to dual wield for the range of steel tornado, but that brawler bubble is too awesome.

    As for Soul Harvest, bar swapping is viable. On a trash pull If I need to gain all that ultimate from kills, then I do things normally until the majority of the pack is at or under 25%. From there, instead of heavy hitting to recharge on my mainbar, I finish off with the bow to get ulti back. I originally had SH on the mainbar, but found the attack could be bar swapped as easily as grim focus' charge. With grim in mind, I find it more viable on the front bar nowadays due to the recent change:
    Grim Focus: The Assassin’s Will and Assassin’s Scourge procs from this ability and its morphs no longer have a 100ms cast time, but the speed of the projectile has been reduced by approximately 10%.
    If you're being an actual archer, standing far away, this works great for bar swapping. However, with it being instant cast & you using it at melee range, the window to bar swap that was available from the cast time is gone. I could forego the proc & just utilize the buff, but that disease damage is too much to pass up on.
    The way you phrase things is also very strange, talking about multipliers and stuff, I simply have to think that English is not your native language.
    I'm new to the game, but not new to these type of games. The terminology may seem like French (does a rose smell as sweet by any other name?), but I'm touching on concepts that carry over from WoW, Diablo, etc. The multipliers being the passive or procced buffs that synergize to greatly increase your damage. I've always found larger round multiplicative modifiers (Thaumaturge) to have more effect than one or two additive modifiers, unless the additive buffs are able to add up to a full multiplier, rather than a portion of a percentage increase; +300% vs +35%. If a skill or passive can have it scale beyond a x1.5 bonus of itself, then it's damage boosting ability scales better than a bunch of 15%-ers proving individually along the way. In this game, you crit damage stat is your one multiplicative modifier that at it's base rests at x1.5. Imagine if you could get it to 2.5. In D3 you essentially took a +300% item buff * +1400% set bonus buff * +900% crit damage * +125% combined additive damage buffs to boost whirlwind. But even then you were factoring in hundreds of small crits that would proc splash crits that could trigger bleeds, versus the flat damage of the hit of WW itself. On that note, I would like to thank you in helping me further understand the unspoken mechanics of ESO. It's tricky as not everything is black and white.

    I tend to type how I talk & think; lots of tangents.





  • esp1992
    esp1992
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    Nightblade is for Fools
    Playing as a Warden from now on.
    MY CHARACTERS

    Clouse the White Warden - Breton AD MAG Warden
    Jaro the Wild Changeling - Bosmer AD STAM Warden
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