Interesting Read - MMO Psychology

StackonClown · October 2017

Make up your own mind

http://theconversation.com/the-business-of-addiction-how-the-video-gaming-industry-is-evolving-to-be-like-the-casino-industry-83361

Quote from article:

"The use of casino techniques by games companies
Video game companies today use the same techniques as casinos to ensure customers become addicted to their games.
Commonly, they use fake currency. By using poker chips, cards or “gems,” companies can create a disassociation effect in the buyer, who does not realise how much real money they are spending. In a recent study, it was shown that people tend to spend more money when using debit cards than with cash due to this same “disassociation” effect."

yodased · October 2017

It's basic Skinner box and they are not "Like casinos, they are casinos.

Read more about dark patterns and it will be quite clear what motivates the development of such devices.

SirAndy · October 2017

People need "studies" to tell them that? Maybe that's the real problem ...

Morgul667 · October 2017

There are threads about this already but yeah games, crown stores, limited offers are "tricks" designed to push players in injecting money in the game.

Tannus15 · October 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

People need "studies" to tell them that? Maybe that's the real problem ...

it's always worthwhile to actually do a scientific study. It's the difference between "gut feeling" and "data".

It's like when you swap out morkuldin for hundings. You might "feel" like hundings is better, but really you should be testing it on a Skelly to make sure.

AzraelKrieg · October 2017

I think this is the third time this article has been linked.

StackonClown · October 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

I think this is the third time this article has been linked.

ah - didnt realise.. just found some of these things with rng, crown crates, drop rates, etc make more sense when thinking about how video poker works

SirAndy · October 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

People need "studies" to tell them that? Maybe that's the real problem ...

it's always worthwhile to actually do a scientific study. It's the difference between "gut feeling" and "data".

I work in scientific research, i know all about data.

But seriously, people need a scientific study to tell them that you're likely to spend more money when the process is abstracted?

Woeler · October 2017

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

That is ignoring the fact that some people have addiction problems. So putting stuff like this in a video game is very very irresponsible.

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2017

StackonClown wrote: »

Make up your own mind

http://theconversation.com/the-business-of-addiction-how-the-video-gaming-industry-is-evolving-to-be-like-the-casino-industry-83361

Quote from article:

"The use of casino techniques by games companies
Video game companies today use the same techniques as casinos to ensure customers become addicted to their games.
Commonly, they use fake currency. By using poker chips, cards or “gems,” companies can create a disassociation effect in the buyer, who does not realise how much real money they are spending. In a recent study, it was shown that people tend to spend more money when using debit cards than with cash due to this same “disassociation” effect."

Yup, this is why they use things like multiple zeros in their fake currency. To make it seem like youre getting much more for what youre spending. So here in ESO 15.00 U.S. Dollars is turned into 1500 Crowns. Because there is no period there to break up the number its made to seem as if youre getting more than what youre spending. You then enter the game and the prices are always hiked up so that the things that are the most sought after is something you would have to buy larger or multiple packs of Crowns.

With debit cards and credit cards, unless you have it set up so your bank or creditor updates you with purchases and remaining funds. Youre basically doing math in your head and its much easier to lose touch with what youve spent and what you have left. With cash in your hands, its a very physical tangible limit.

zyk · October 2017

This is why ZOS puts everything in a RNG boxes -- which are, effectively, scratchcards.

Lotteries and gambling are heavily regulated because they are exploitative, harmful to society and ultimately rackets.

Devs don't like them either. However, execs who answer to investors, force them into products.

Rohaus · October 2017

We are all suckers... even I have contributed to the problem by purchasing crown store items that were "limited time" or purchased lottery boxes...

I did actually get a rare mount... the mechanical wolf that has some green and silver in it... kind of cool but the sound effects are annoying so I don't ride it.. lol

I miss the days when one would simply go to a location and grind for a rare mount drop... not in this game mind you...

Rex-Umbra · October 2017

It's sad Zenimax and Bethesda have joined in this dark shady side of modern gaming.

Cadbury · October 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

People need "studies" to tell them that? Maybe that's the real problem ...

it's always worthwhile to actually do a scientific study. It's the difference between "gut feeling" and "data".

I work in scientific research, i know all about data.

But seriously, people need a scientific study to tell them that you're likely to spend more money when the process is abstracted?

I agree, but let's face it.Some people want to be told what to believe...

Darethran · October 2017

What would you expect from a corporation, who's CEO has a background in managing finances for Saudi royalty, and removed the CTO from the company? His wikipedia's a doozey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Altman

Guy's a disgraced criminal banker, who's forbidden by the US Federal Reserve from ever again engaging in banking.

Not exactly a Fred Rogers type.

maboleth · October 2017

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

And lets face it, it's not just the crates or crown store items. Motifs, furniture, weaponry, armoury, even housing are built upon this (e.g. farming). You crave for something that requires a huge effort, though nothing is certain. While you won't lose money directly, you will lose time and therefore won't be able to work AND if you have an OCD-like gamplay cravings, you won't find it satisfactory either. So neither you will work nor have fun.

Elsonso · October 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

But seriously, people need a scientific study to tell them that you're likely to spend more money when the process is abstracted?

Honestly, I think many people would have to be told what you mean when you say that!

StackonClown · October 2017

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

Not 'choosing to take part' shouldn't prevent us from making comment or discussing this topic does it?

Lylith · October 2017

Cadbury wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

People need "studies" to tell them that? Maybe that's the real problem ...

it's always worthwhile to actually do a scientific study. It's the difference between "gut feeling" and "data".

I work in scientific research, i know all about data.

But seriously, people need a scientific study to tell them that you're likely to spend more money when the process is abstracted?

I agree, but let's face it.Some people want to be told what to believe...

hence the unaccountable popularity of abcnnbbcbsfox.

SydneyGrey · October 2017

Was already a thread about this article.

idk · October 2017

MMOs are not like casinos, they just use the same psychology.

Thing is, it does not work unless players submit to it.

StackonClown wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

Not 'choosing to take part' shouldn't prevent us from making comment or discussing this topic does it?

It does not appear Woeler, the comment you quoted, says you cannot comment on it.

Rohamad_Ali · October 2017

Works on mice , not cats .

StackonClown · October 2017

idk wrote: »

MMOs are not like casinos, they just use the same psychology.

Thing is, it does not work unless players submit to it.

From the way I see it, even if not all players submit to it, isn't it manipulative in nature, nevertheless?

The underlying intent of such an approach cant solely be judged by how many people choose to participate...

For the record, I have a bought a lot of crown crates, and I'm aware how much it cost me.

But the rng aspect is a bit more annoying, in that this has been thoroughly researched by MMO companies specifically in terms of human psychology towards 'unexpected/unpredictable rewards'.

Most MMO companies have multiple staff members with psychology degrees exactly to capitalise on this type of intrinsic human cognition.

StackonClown · October 2017

idk wrote: »

MMOs are not like casinos, they just use the same psychology.

Thing is, it does not work unless players submit to it.

StackonClown wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

Not 'choosing to take part' shouldn't prevent us from making comment or discussing this topic does it?

It does not appear Woeler, the comment you quoted, says you cannot comment on it.

it does to me... - comes across as 'dont like it leave - thanks - bye'

driosketch · October 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

People need "studies" to tell them that? Maybe that's the real problem ...

it's always worthwhile to actually do a scientific study. It's the difference between "gut feeling" and "data".

I work in scientific research, i know all about data.

But seriously, people need a scientific study to tell them that you're likely to spend more money when the process is abstracted?

Psychology has been called the "Elaboration of the Obvious". It's the difference between having a sense of what's true and having numbers to back it up.

Bouldercleave · October 2017

laced wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

That is ignoring the fact that some people have addiction problems. So putting stuff like this in a video game is very very irresponsible.

I'm sorry, but I won't live my life worrying about everyone else's problems. If you have a gambling problem, go get yourself some help - it's not my (or ZoS') problem, and to take away someone else's potential entertainment enjoyment because you can't get your own life in order is very very irresponsible as well. Take some personal responsibility for your life and quit asking the rest of the world to do it for you.

I don't like smacking my nutsack with a hammer so you know what? I don't do it. And sadly yes, I DO have the data to back up that statement...

Cpt_Teemo · October 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

I think this is the third time this article has been linked.

Not 3rd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik

Runefang · October 2017

laced wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

That is ignoring the fact that some people have addiction problems. So putting stuff like this in a video game is very very irresponsible.

Ultimately most companies in the world make money from your personal weaknesses, whether they be psychological or biological.

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

And just like not entering a casino, you can simply choose not to take part.

That is ignoring the fact that some people have addiction problems. So putting stuff like this in a video game is very very irresponsible.

I'm sorry, but I won't live my life worrying about everyone else's problems. If you have a gambling problem, go get yourself some help - it's not my (or ZoS') problem, and to take away someone else's potential entertainment enjoyment because you can't get your own life in order is very very irresponsible as well. Take some personal responsibility for your life and quit asking the rest of the world to do it for you.

I don't like smacking my nutsack with a hammer so you know what? I don't do it. And sadly yes, I DO have the data to back up that statement...

They put these things in the game BECAUSE they know people have gambling addictions. And I honestly dont know what kind of help you think there is if you think someone can "get help" and simply continue to expose themselves to the very things they are addicted too. YOU might want to educate yourself before you go spouting off some nonsense like anyone expecting little ole you the unimportant player to worry about anyone else. Youre free not to take part in the discussion if youre going to be abrasive and handwave the discussion.

Darkonflare15 · October 2017

I find it a little ironic that people talk about addiction when it comes to gambling in video games but forget that you have be addicted to video games in the first place to get addicted that.