Where is the play as you want my dear developers?

GeorgeBlack · October 2017

As a stamina class I have to slot Momentum to be able to sustain and face off with an enemy in PvP.

Why is this ability locked behind a weapon that offers execution, gap closer, spammable, hard CC?
I want to play without 2h but this would leave me handicapped and I'd only be able to kill overland content.
Where is the plsy as you want Zos? Where is the variety in builds when every stambuild slots 2handed?

Magika builds have access to heal over time +bonus damage no matter what class they are and no matter what weapon they use: destro resto DW SnB. They get Entropy from Mages Guild.

Why don't you move Momentum from 2handed to Fighters Guild? Why should I be forced to slot 2handed in Cyrodiil in order to remain competitive?

Where is the play as you want @Zos_GinaBruno

Tannus15 · October 2017

Why is momentum the key component?

You say sustain, but are you talking healing? Are you trying to say two handed skills are perfectly complimented for PVP?

You obviously don't do any vet DLC dungeons or vet trials, since no one uses two-handed builds in PVE, because they are rubbish.

Why would Momentum in fighters guild change DW for you? You still don't have a gap closer, an execute and a spammable hard CC.
what problem are you solving and where are you solving it?

GeorgeBlack · October 2017

DW should not have a gap closer a STRONG execute and CC.
Stamina classes including DW builds should have heal over time+bonus dmg in fighters guild just like magika classes have in Mages Guild with Entropy.

Did you imply that DW is for PvE and 2h for PvP? Ye I though so. Play as you want does not exist. Ty for proving my point. Thank you for proving me right on your own words.

Stovahkiin · October 2017

While I don’t see how momentum is required, it is true that the “play how you want” theme has been getting ignored by Zeni more and more over time.

Yeah, you can technically play how you want a lot of the time, but not if you want to actually be effective in combat at all. For instance, want to be a Wood Elf that is a pro with the bow? Too bad, bow sux.

Tannus15 · October 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Ima not answer to a person that thinks that DW is for PvE and 2h is for PvP.

DW should not have a gap closer a STRONG execute and CC.
Stamina classes including DW should have heal over time+bonus dmg in fighters guild just like magika classes have in Mages Guild with Entropy.

So what exactly are you after here?
What would change by having Momentum in the fighters guild line?

Forget the mages guild, magi builds have completely different issues than stam builds.
Stam builds get Vigor and Caltrops and no shields. They are completely different things.

It's obvious that you only do PVP, and from what your saying I'm guessing that you want to use DW? Or Bow? How will Momentum in fighters guild change things?

GeorgeBlack · October 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Ima not answer to a person that thinks that DW is for PvE and 2h is for PvP.

DW should not have a gap closer a STRONG execute and CC.
Stamina classes including DW should have heal over time+bonus dmg in fighters guild just like magika classes have in Mages Guild with Entropy.

So what exactly are you after here?
What would change by having Momentum in the fighters guild line?

Forget the mages guild, magi builds have completely different issues than stam builds.
Stam builds get Vigor and Caltrops and no shields. They are completely different things.

It's obvious that you only do PVP, and from what your saying I'm guessing that you want to use DW? Or Bow? How will Momentum in fighters guild change things?

I have completed all PvE. Farmed all i need to equip. I dont get excited by "ladderboard competition". Zos doesn't offer reasons to repeat group content with "bind on pick up".

Magika users don't have issues. They have access to every function this game offers, no matter what class, no matter what weapon. Portraying magika playstyle as a struggle is a joke.

Why is it wrong to want to use DW and Bow for any of my stamina toons? Isn't that what Eso proclaimed? Play as you want?

How will momentum change things, OPEN UP OPTIONS FOR BUILDS by offering 35s heal over time, snare removals maj brut at the modest cost of stamina for DW bow?
The answer that I wouldn't have to slot 2handed but rather play as I want in a competitive environment isn't good enough for you? And you oppose that?

technohic · October 2017

You can play how you want; it just won’t always be the best way to do things. And there always will be a “best” way to do anything

AzraelKrieg · October 2017

There is definitely a play as you want. I mean Tannus there decided to play a bow-bow build for lulz. He's playing as we wants. Playing how you want is up to you, not the devs. If it was up to them, it wouldn't be playing how you want it would be playing how they want.

GeorgeBlack · October 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

There is definitely a play as you want. I mean Tannus there decided to play a bow-bow build for lulz. He's playing as we wants. Playing how you want is up to you, not the devs. If it was up to them, it wouldn't be playing how you want it would be playing how they want.

When stating "play as you want" but there is no substance in these words, there is no point it making such claims.
There is no build diversity.
There is no play as you want.

SwimsWithMemes · October 2017

@GeorgeBlack this game is very much play as you want, my Warden doesn't use 2H in PvP neither does my Nightblade

It's just that as with every game that has a competitive metagame, there are effective ways to play. The game never promised "play competitively by doing whatever you want". There's versions of all content available for all styles of users.

AzraelKrieg · October 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

There is definitely a play as you want. I mean Tannus there decided to play a bow-bow build for lulz. He's playing as we wants. Playing how you want is up to you, not the devs. If it was up to them, it wouldn't be playing how you want it would be playing how they want.

When stating "play as you want" but there is no substance in these words, there is no point it making such claims.
There is no build diversity.
There is no play as you want.

You want to play as you want then stop humping the meta. Do something that no one else is doing. It won't be effective but at least, I hope, you'll be having fun instead of complaining about it on the forums. Go play a damn magicka build with a bow since that is "playing how you want". All you are doing is wasting the community managers' time by tagging them in this drivel.

Alaztor91 · October 2017

tbh entropy could use a few buffs, it's probably the weakest magicka dot after soul trap and the healing it gives is insignificant.

In fact most skills from both the mages guild and fighters guild tree are pretty underwhelming with notable exceptions like meteor, dawnbreaker ,trap beast and magelight.

VaranisArano · October 2017

There absolutely is "play as you want" but there is no guarantee of effectiveness.

Consider levels of difficulty of content:
Overland PVE: play as you want, easier with CP and a good rotation. New players without CP, without a rotation, or the experience to make their build work can easily struggle on harder fights such as in the Main Quest.
Normal Group Dungeons: play as you want, but your group members might be carrying you. This'll be much nicer once low levels aren't forced en masse into DLC dungeons.
Veteran Group Dungeons: Play as you want, but you'd better hold up your end of things or expect to get kicked.
Surprisingly, there's still an awful lot of room for variety at this point, even in Veteran Dungeons, though by that point its becoming obvious that some build choices are more optimal than others. Non-optimal builds and even non-remotely-optimal builds can still complete content, although its noticeably harder.

Continuing on...
PVP: play as you want, but against other players you have very little margin for error. Truth is, you really need to hone and specialize your build for the playstyle you want. So in reality, you can technically play how you want in the sense that nothing's stopping you, but the most effective builds are running whatever the "meta" is for their role and playstyle and you will be at a serious disadvantage by comparison. You'll still need an awful lot of skill in order to use that meta build to its greatest potential.
Trials: play as you want, but given that 11 other people are playing with you in a coordinated group effort, the reality is that you are playing more or less what they agreed to play with, build wise. For Leaderboard runs, this is stricter, but even for casual runs, you'll need to make sure your group is okay with what you bring. Can you tank trials with your sorc? Sure! Just make sure your group agreed to it and you can actually do it. But for the most part, trials groups are going to stick with the "meta" builds simply because its a group effort from 12 people. Why make it harder than it needs to be?

I don't think I'm saying anything that players don't already know. "Play as you want" is technically possible in all content, at least in the sense that nothing is actually stopping you or that player skill can compensate for a bad build. However, "play as you want" becomes steadily less desirable as the content gets harder, the margins of error get smaller, and the number of players depending on you increases.

GeorgeBlack · October 2017

Let me spell out what play as you want means and you can keep making empty statements with empty words.

Play as you want means you are able to take a class and equip the armor and weapon that you like.
In PvP tou won't win unless you slot BiS. (Apparently wanting to improve this situation by making changes is laughable at these forums).
Play as you want means only overland.

Play as you want means hybrid builds ALSO are limited to overland. When Zos says play as you want from a large variety of weapon skills, class skills and world skills it means that you can use all that for overland. Nothing else.

This is what play as you want means.
And according to you this claim that ESO made is valid 100%.

Keep talking empty words. The game is in a great state and it's my L2P issue.

FloppyTouch · October 2017

Are we really comparing entropy as a heal is laughable

bottleofsyrup · October 2017

If you're going to use "play as you want" as an excuse, it helps to pay attention to what you're referencing.

"PLAY THE WAY YOU LIKE

Battle, craft, fish, steal, siege, or explore. The choice is yours to make in a persistent Elder Scrolls world."

ZOS stated you can do whatever or go to wherever you want, but never made any promises about how you do it.

ManwithBeard9 · October 2017

You CAN play as you want, doesn't mean your'e going to be any good.

VaranisArano · October 2017

I'm not sure if you fully understood my point. But I may have been long winded, so I'll shorten it.

"Play as you want" is viable for overland PVE, normal group dungeons, and even for veteran group dungeons assuming you know what you are doing and are prepared for a noticeably harder fight than you would face otherwise. You don't need "meta" builds or even good builds in order to complete these, although it sure does help.

"Play as you want" is not really an option for PVP and Trials, to the point that its "technically possible" but not really a viable option for the vast majority of people doing PVP or Trials. I think we are in agreement here.

Vesper_BR · October 2017

I've made a post to discuss this option... But instead what I got was alot of people that wants the game to change for the better but don't want to change the metas they created or were taught to do....

GeorgeBlack · October 2017

Vesper_BR wrote: »

I've made a post to discuss this option... But instead what I got was alot of people that wants the game to change for the better but don't want to change the metas they created or were taught to do....

Don't bother. People are selfish and ill minded.

Tannus15 · October 2017

Vesper_BR wrote: »

I've made a post to discuss this option... But instead what I got was alot of people that wants the game to change for the better but don't want to change the metas they created or were taught to do....

No, you got a bunch of people asking exactly why this particular change would make things better and for what purpose it's required.

Basically every PVE player in the game is going "What the hell are you talking about?" to begin with.
This is a PVP wish for PVP only. which you didn't make clear, AT ALL, anywhere.

From the angry rantings of @GeorgeBlack I think the gist of it is that Forward Momentum is really powerful in PVP and he'd like it, or something like it, to be available for all stamina classes, because he feels that without major brutality, snare removal and healing, all in 1 skill, no stamina builds are viable.

Many people have objected, citing that this is part of what makes two handed builds unique and that it would make stamina builds too generic.

Simply put there are already 2 skills outside of class and weapon skills which stamina builds consider "must have" which are vigor and caltrops. Once you add a third "mega skill" which is a long duration hot with major brutality and a large heal at the end, or snare immunity and 3% increased weapon damage (fighters guild passives) there would be even less differentiation between two-handed and dual wield or even stamplar, stamdk, stamsorc etc (which are already pretty identical builds)

GeorgeBlack · October 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

I've made a post to discuss this option... But instead what I got was alot of people that wants the game to change for the better but don't want to change the metas they created or were taught to do....

No, you got a bunch of people asking exactly why this particular change would make things better and for what purpose it's required.

Basically every PVE player in the game is going "What the hell are you talking about?" to begin with.
This is a PVP wish for PVP only. which you didn't make clear, AT ALL, anywhere.

From the angry rantings of @GeorgeBlack I think the gist of it is that Forward Momentum is really powerful in PVP and he'd like it, or something like it, to be available for all stamina classes, because he feels that without major brutality, snare removal and healing, all in 1 skill, no stamina builds are viable.

Many people have objected, citing that this is part of what makes two handed builds unique and that it would make stamina builds too generic.

Simply put there are already 2 skills outside of class and weapon skills which stamina builds consider "must have" which are vigor and caltrops. Once you add a third "mega skill" which is a long duration hot with major brutality and a large heal at the end, or snare immunity and 3% increased weapon damage (fighters guild passives) there would be even less differentiation between two-handed and dual wield or even stamplar, stamdk, stamsorc etc (which are already pretty identical builds)

2handed builds more unique?

The whole of cyrodiil is running 2handed if they have a stamina toon.

But how would you know that, if u only focus on PvE. narrow minded much

SwimsWithMemes · October 2017

So what OP really wants is better Stam class morphs? That I can agree with.

Stonefist should be a DK Stam spammable that gives a small heal if the target was hit by Stonefist within 3 seconds or something.

Templars and Wardens just have good healing options.

Sorcs get the cool heal on crit function, but maybe a change to the Clannfear so the heal scales off any crit power rather than health.

Nightblade should not get a class heal because it's like, their only weakness

Chronicburn · October 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

As a stamina class I have to slot Momentum to be able to sustain and face off with an enemy in PvP.

Why is this ability locked behind a weapon that offers execution, gap closer, spammable, hard CC?
I want to play without 2h but this would leave me handicapped and I'd only be able to kill overland content.
Where is the plsy as you want Zos? Where is the variety in builds when every stambuild slots 2handed?

Magika builds have access to heal over time +bonus damage no matter what class they are and no matter what weapon they use: destro resto DW SnB. They get Entropy from Mages Guild.

Why don't you move Momentum from 2handed to Fighters Guild? Why should I be forced to slot 2handed in Cyrodiil in order to remain competitive?

Where is the play as you want @Zos_GinaBruno

I FULLY SUPPORT IMPROVEMENTS TO ALL CLASSES, SKILL LINES, AND PLAYSTYLES

But nerfs to none

Sheezabeast · October 2017

Nothing is stopping you from running a Restoration Staff on your back bar

It's best to adapt rather than complaining.

Tannus15 · October 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

I've made a post to discuss this option... But instead what I got was alot of people that wants the game to change for the better but don't want to change the metas they created or were taught to do....

No, you got a bunch of people asking exactly why this particular change would make things better and for what purpose it's required.

Basically every PVE player in the game is going "What the hell are you talking about?" to begin with.
This is a PVP wish for PVP only. which you didn't make clear, AT ALL, anywhere.

From the angry rantings of @GeorgeBlack I think the gist of it is that Forward Momentum is really powerful in PVP and he'd like it, or something like it, to be available for all stamina classes, because he feels that without major brutality, snare removal and healing, all in 1 skill, no stamina builds are viable.

Many people have objected, citing that this is part of what makes two handed builds unique and that it would make stamina builds too generic.

Simply put there are already 2 skills outside of class and weapon skills which stamina builds consider "must have" which are vigor and caltrops. Once you add a third "mega skill" which is a long duration hot with major brutality and a large heal at the end, or snare immunity and 3% increased weapon damage (fighters guild passives) there would be even less differentiation between two-handed and dual wield or even stamplar, stamdk, stamsorc etc (which are already pretty identical builds)

2handed builds more unique?

The whole of cyrodiil is running 2handed if they have a stamina toon.

But how would you know that, if u only focus on PvE. narrow minded much

George, settle down mate.

You clearly are failing to understand what I've written.
Two handed builds are unique. As in, they are different to every other weapon skill build. they are not unique in that only 1 person uses this. It's like saying "long range is what makes bow builds unique among stamina builds".

I would say work on your reading comprehension but trying to make sense of your ramblings makes me think it's a broader problem than that.

Lastly, don't accuse people of being "narrow minded" when they focus on PvE when you are clearly focusing on PvP to the exclusion of all else.

Chronicburn · October 2017

I would have loved in-world craftable housing ... with lots you could claim, build on, expand, and sell.
Nice job with the instanced-crap-throw away housing system ZOS.

GeorgeBlack · October 2017

Tannus15 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

I've made a post to discuss this option... But instead what I got was alot of people that wants the game to change for the better but don't want to change the metas they created or were taught to do....

No, you got a bunch of people asking exactly why this particular change would make things better and for what purpose it's required.

Basically every PVE player in the game is going "What the hell are you talking about?" to begin with.
This is a PVP wish for PVP only. which you didn't make clear, AT ALL, anywhere.

From the angry rantings of @GeorgeBlack I think the gist of it is that Forward Momentum is really powerful in PVP and he'd like it, or something like it, to be available for all stamina classes, because he feels that without major brutality, snare removal and healing, all in 1 skill, no stamina builds are viable.

Many people have objected, citing that this is part of what makes two handed builds unique and that it would make stamina builds too generic.

Simply put there are already 2 skills outside of class and weapon skills which stamina builds consider "must have" which are vigor and caltrops. Once you add a third "mega skill" which is a long duration hot with major brutality and a large heal at the end, or snare immunity and 3% increased weapon damage (fighters guild passives) there would be even less differentiation between two-handed and dual wield or even stamplar, stamdk, stamsorc etc (which are already pretty identical builds)

2handed builds more unique?

The whole of cyrodiil is running 2handed if they have a stamina toon.

But how would you know that, if u only focus on PvE. narrow minded much

George, settle down mate.

You clearly are failing to understand what I've written.
Two handed builds are unique. As in, they are different to every other weapon skill build. they are not unique in that only 1 person uses this. It's like saying "long range is what makes bow builds unique among stamina builds".

I would say work on your reading comprehension but trying to make sense of your ramblings makes me think it's a broader problem than that.

Lastly, don't accuse people of being "narrow minded" when they focus on PvE when you are clearly focusing on PvP to the exclusion of all else.

How is moving Momentum to FG harming PvE. Actually why am I even replying to a person equipped with empty statements that has the audacity to bring reading comprhension into all of this.
You fail to grasp the essence of things and talk about menial stuff. Done here.

___________________________________________________________
I made my point with this topic.

Where is the variety when everybody is slotting 2h for PvP and DW for PvE

Where is the play as you want when I am forced to DW for PvE and 2h for PvP in order to stay relevant.
__________________________________________________________

And the forum trolls reply "you are not forced to. You can also lose, by playing as u want.

SHADOW2KK · October 2017

So OP thinks you absolutely have to slot 2 H and Momentum to win in PvP? lol, sorry man, I barely use 2 H in PvP or BG or Duels on my stam builds and still win a lot of fights.

l2p issue I think and it is a bit ironic where you say people are narrow minded, you do not have to run bis builds in PvP to win, i have tested bis builds and my own, they both perform well.

Do some solo PvP or duelling or with a half decent small scale group and no offence, l2p.

Betsararie · October 2017

Play as you want has always been a flawed premise and ZOS is aware of that. One thing will always be better than another thing. No 2 weapons, or classes, etc can ever be completely equal.

Tannus15 · October 2017

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

___________________________________________________________
I made my point with this topic.

Where is the variety when everybody is slotting 2h for PvP and DW for PvE

Where is the play as you want when I am forced to DW for PvE and 2h for PvP in order to stay relevant.
__________________________________________________________

No actually, you didn't say this anywhere.

you made almost no points and when asked for clarification you just start getting passive aggressive or just plain aggressive. It's no wonder you ignore my posts, you can't answer them, because you can't even articulate your own position.

Lets have a look at your OP.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

As a stamina class I have to slot Momentum to be able to sustain and face off with an enemy in PvP.

Why is this ability locked behind a weapon that offers execution, gap closer, spammable, hard CC?
I want to play without 2h but this would leave me handicapped and I'd only be able to kill overland content.
Where is the plsy as you want Zos? Where is the variety in builds when every stambuild slots 2handed?

Magika builds have access to heal over time +bonus damage no matter what class they are and no matter what weapon they use: destro resto DW SnB. They get Entropy from Mages Guild.

Why don't you move Momentum from 2handed to Fighters Guild? Why should I be forced to slot 2handed in Cyrodiil in order to remain competitive?

Where is the play as you want @Zos_GinaBruno

Nope, no mention of DW for PvE at all.

In fact, there is no mention or thought for PvE there at all, except for some derogatory comment about overland content? Which makes no sense when DW is the meta for literally every end game PvE stam build. So by "overland" you Vet HM trials I guess.

Then you tangent into magicka builds get entropy without any reference to why this matters or how it's unbalanced.

Then you state momentum should be moved to the fighters guild skill line.
There is no reason or rationale behind WHY it should be moved to the fighters guild, or how it would change other builds. There is no reasoning for why DW builds are bad for PvP and what they need changed to be viable.

And then you finish with an jab at Gina for some reason that I don't understand.

I've attempted to make sense of what you've posted, but you ignored those as though it somehow makes your argument stronger if you just declare your point superior without any reasoning or logic at all.