Nice build. Have you tried cowards in place of hunt? I've tried both and I prefer cowards for stamden since I think hunt shines when you can also use it for offensive animation cancels: incap-dodge roll-rune proc as an offensive combo for example.

I'm quite certain it's just a preference thing, just curious if you've tried cowards as your kiting set since the major protection and expedition are both very nice

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Nice build. Have you tried cowards in place of hunt? I've tried both and I prefer cowards for stamden since I think hunt shines when you can also use it for offensive animation cancels: incap-dodge roll-rune proc as an offensive combo for example.

I'm quite certain it's just a preference thing, just curious if you've tried cowards as your kiting set since the major protection and expedition are both very nice

I have, but it doesn't fit my play style. I use eternal (SnB) here because it frees up monster set availability and a bow is not needed for mobility on Warden. I personally try to peel players from large groups and bait them into areas where I can line of sight. Couple this with Eternal Hunt's rune and you can jam up players to get enough breathing room to turn and burst.

Interesting. I run Cowards SnB back bar hundings body + slime/BS with DW shackle axe/sword nirn/infused front bar(may switch to 2h next patch if I can be bothered with farming perfect asylum). When I run slime I drop bird of prey for mage light and get that nice empowered DBoS to add to my burst.

I'm also curious about the choice to stack max stam instead of weapon damage on a medium armor build, given that you get the nice 12% weapon damage boost in medium. Is it just because you're using Eternal Hunt as a crafted + 2pc undaunted and there's not a more appealing set with robust jewelry or do you also need the increased max pool for sustain since you're rolling to proc the hunt rune?

None of this is meant to be critical of your build AT ALL, I'm just fishing for any insight I can into improving my own build.

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Nice build. Have you tried cowards in place of hunt? I've tried both and I prefer cowards for stamden since I think hunt shines when you can also use it for offensive animation cancels: incap-dodge roll-rune proc as an offensive combo for example.

I'm quite certain it's just a preference thing, just curious if you've tried cowards as your kiting set since the major protection and expedition are both very nice

I have, but it doesn't fit my play style. I use eternal (SnB) here because it frees up monster set availability and a bow is not needed for mobility on Warden. I personally try to peel players from large groups and bait them into areas where I can line of sight. Couple this with Eternal Hunt's rune and you can jam up players to get enough breathing room to turn and burst.

Interesting. I run Cowards SnB back bar hundings body + slime/BS with DW shackle axe/sword nirn/infused front bar(may switch to 2h next patch if I can be bothered with farming perfect asylum). When I run slime I drop bird of prey for mage light and get that nice empowered DBoS to add to my burst.

I'm also curious about the choice to stack max stam instead of weapon damage on a medium armor build, given that you get the nice 12% weapon damage boost in medium. Is it just because you're using Eternal Hunt as a crafted + 2pc undaunted and there's not a more appealing set with robust jewelry or do you also need the increased max pool for sustain since you're rolling to proc the hunt rune?

None of this is meant to be critical of your build AT ALL, I'm just fishing for any insight I can into improving my own build.

Haha np have at it man.

It's all how I play. I chose Hulk because I wanted a jewelry set that can provide benefits to damage/healing to couple with the crafted Eternal. Of course you could run Bone Pirate (switch mundus and jewelry enchants), spriggans, senche or any other sets, but I feel the healing with Hulk coupled with an Argonian is pretty disgusting. Not to mention, that max stam can be pushed even higher on a stam focused race. The other part is resources. I play solo and very small scale against large groups, so stacking burst doesn't make much sense to me when my resources get stressed constantly.

In addition, if you time SUB>HA>Stampede>HA>Dizzy>HA>DBoS>HA>Executioner with this setup, you usually kill or seriously injure your target and I couldn't see giving up my resources for more of any more burst.

3,500 stam recovery after continuous on SnB bar lets me kite zergs, deplete their resources and turn around and cook.

For example, on console PS4 NA, yellow and red always battle at the bridge and Sejanus. I peel off reds/yellows west of Sejanus to the small island and pack them up crossing the water and clean up the rest on the land. This Argonian with Bird of Prey (speed affects swimming) is a damn speed boat in the water.

Interesting. I guess that's just playstyle differences, having watched some of your stam warden gameplay I see the subtle differences between what you do and I what I do. While we both kite a lot, I prefer to kite and set up the SA-DB combo outside of LoS then step into los with my burst and preferably an empowered DB. Basically I think I'm playing a much more glass cannon setup with much less sustain than you. With the absence of a gap closer or Bird of Prey on my bars I have to lean on the cowards proc heavily for positioning, sometimes I'll just tap a sprint when a frag or incap is incoming for the mitigation it offers, but I also have to know when to block instead of trying to proc cowards. I'm sitting at "only" 2400 base regen, but I'm also using sprint more and roll less than you because of cowards which is giving me slightly bigger windows between kiting and burst. I run about 4200 self buffed weapon damage with a smaller stam pool which makes my sustain and kiting more difficult but the ensuing fights typically end faster. I do have to be much more careful with my initial position and how I engage people, but if you eat the SA-DB you're toasted.

I'm gonna throw some hunt gear on later and check it out for sure though, I'm really interested in using the rune defensively since I've always viewed it as an offensive proc to combo with your damage.

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Nice build. Have you tried cowards in place of hunt? I've tried both and I prefer cowards for stamden since I think hunt shines when you can also use it for offensive animation cancels: incap-dodge roll-rune proc as an offensive combo for example.

I'm quite certain it's just a preference thing, just curious if you've tried cowards as your kiting set since the major protection and expedition are both very nice

I have, but it doesn't fit my play style. I use eternal (SnB) here because it frees up monster set availability and a bow is not needed for mobility on Warden. I personally try to peel players from large groups and bait them into areas where I can line of sight. Couple this with Eternal Hunt's rune and you can jam up players to get enough breathing room to turn and burst.

Interesting. I run Cowards SnB back bar hundings body + slime/BS with DW shackle axe/sword nirn/infused front bar(may switch to 2h next patch if I can be bothered with farming perfect asylum). When I run slime I drop bird of prey for mage light and get that nice empowered DBoS to add to my burst.

I'm also curious about the choice to stack max stam instead of weapon damage on a medium armor build, given that you get the nice 12% weapon damage boost in medium. Is it just because you're using Eternal Hunt as a crafted + 2pc undaunted and there's not a more appealing set with robust jewelry or do you also need the increased max pool for sustain since you're rolling to proc the hunt rune?

None of this is meant to be critical of your build AT ALL, I'm just fishing for any insight I can into improving my own build.

Haha np have at it man.

It's all how I play. I chose Hulk because I wanted a jewelry set that can provide benefits to damage/healing to couple with the crafted Eternal. Of course you could run Bone Pirate (switch mundus and jewelry enchants), spriggans, senche or any other sets, but I feel the healing with Hulk coupled with an Argonian is pretty disgusting. Not to mention, that max stam can be pushed even higher on a stam focused race. The other part is resources. I play solo and very small scale against large groups, so stacking burst doesn't make much sense to me when my resources get stressed constantly.

In addition, if you time SUB>HA>Stampede>HA>Dizzy>HA>DBoS>HA>Executioner with this setup, you usually kill or seriously injure your target and I couldn't see giving up my resources for more of any more burst.

3,500 stam recovery after continuous on SnB bar lets me kite zergs, deplete their resources and turn around and cook.

For example, on console PS4 NA, yellow and red always battle at the bridge and Sejanus. I peel off reds/yellows west of Sejanus to the small island and pack them up crossing the water and clean up the rest on the land. This Argonian with Bird of Prey (speed affects swimming) is a damn speed boat in the water.

Interesting. I guess that's just playstyle differences, having watched some of your stam warden gameplay I see the subtle differences between what you do and I what I do. While we both kite a lot, I prefer to kite and set up the SA-DB combo outside of LoS then step into los with my burst and preferably an empowered DB. Basically I think I'm playing a much more glass cannon setup with much less sustain than you. With the absence of a gap closer or Bird of Prey on my bars I have to lean on the cowards proc heavily for positioning, sometimes I'll just tap a sprint when a frag or incap is incoming for the mitigation it offers, but I also have to know when to block instead of trying to proc cowards. I'm sitting at "only" 2400 base regen, but I'm also using sprint more and roll less than you because of cowards which is giving me slightly bigger windows between kiting and burst. I run about 4200 self buffed weapon damage with a smaller stam pool which makes my sustain and kiting more difficult but the ensuing fights typically end faster. I do have to be much more careful with my initial position and how I engage people, but if you eat the SA-DB you're toasted.

I'm gonna throw some hunt gear on later and check it out for sure though, I'm really interested in using the rune defensively since I've always viewed it as an offensive proc to combo with your damage.

Sounds like fun. Does the two shackle swords (weap dmg) on your build give better return than 2 agility weapons (max stam)? I tried dual wield and couldn't do it unfortunately. No gap closer and the burst felt weird.

I ran through a few different setups and landed on this one. I find it odd hat despite stats and tool tips where you should have better results, I've found better outcomes usually lesser setups. I also wanted to shy away from the usual heavy armor builds that are ran on Warden. When you're 1vXing or small scale fighting large groups this patch, there are so many heavy armor magplars and heal builds that make it difficult enough in medium - in heavy we'd just be in a slap battle where no one dies or you slowly try to reverb/resource drain them to death.

In medium, with a nirnhoned weapon it adds double the damage

Call it 1500 max stam from agility+racials so 1600 max stam AND it isn't available in nirnhoned this patch.

129 weapon damage + 146 weapon damage for nirnhoned main hand *1.2(brutality)*1.12(medium passives) = 340 weapon damage.

If you drop the nirnhoned main hand weapon or have a nirnhoned agility 1h(next patch) then you only gain ~173 weapon damage, which is ~3 WD equivalent less than what the stam gives you, the weapon damage is still more attractive though because you won't have a full stam pool with 2pc agility on only 1 bar so you won't benefit from the sustain an increased pool usually gives. Then all it takes is one person applying minor brutality and you're back ahead damage wise.

This is one of the most overlooked things you can do to squeeze out extra damage. Its a medium armor only trick though unless you've got minor brutality as well since the 12% is what pushes you over the top.

And since I'm stacking so much damage that actually increases the effectiveness of minor berserk, being that the larger the initial hit the more actual bonus damage 8% gives you. But, I can't roll about like you and I have to be much more careful with timing since I don't have a gap closer. If i get the burst off but someone survives I've got a smaller window to get the kill while they're pressured because I can't as easily auto-target them for pursuit. Instead I have to sprint to reposition, which is a large part of why I chose cowards over hunt.

I'm pretty excited to see what I can do with hunt later on tonight though, I really want to try to use it defensively but I can't stop dreaming of dive+SA+hunt rune offensive combo either.

SodanTok wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Nice build. Have you tried cowards in place of hunt? I've tried both and I prefer cowards for stamden since I think hunt shines when you can also use it for offensive animation cancels: incap-dodge roll-rune proc as an offensive combo for example.

I'm quite certain it's just a preference thing, just curious if you've tried cowards as your kiting set since the major protection and expedition are both very nice

I have, but it doesn't fit my play style. I use eternal (SnB) here because it frees up monster set availability and a bow is not needed for mobility on Warden. I personally try to peel players from large groups and bait them into areas where I can line of sight. Couple this with Eternal Hunt's rune and you can jam up players to get enough breathing room to turn and burst.

Interesting. I run Cowards SnB back bar hundings body + slime/BS with DW shackle axe/sword nirn/infused front bar(may switch to 2h next patch if I can be bothered with farming perfect asylum). When I run slime I drop bird of prey for mage light and get that nice empowered DBoS to add to my burst.

I'm also curious about the choice to stack max stam instead of weapon damage on a medium armor build, given that you get the nice 12% weapon damage boost in medium. Is it just because you're using Eternal Hunt as a crafted + 2pc undaunted and there's not a more appealing set with robust jewelry or do you also need the increased max pool for sustain since you're rolling to proc the hunt rune?

None of this is meant to be critical of your build AT ALL, I'm just fishing for any insight I can into improving my own build.

Haha np have at it man.

It's all how I play. I chose Hulk because I wanted a jewelry set that can provide benefits to damage/healing to couple with the crafted Eternal. Of course you could run Bone Pirate (switch mundus and jewelry enchants), spriggans, senche or any other sets, but I feel the healing with Hulk coupled with an Argonian is pretty disgusting. Not to mention, that max stam can be pushed even higher on a stam focused race. The other part is resources. I play solo and very small scale against large groups, so stacking burst doesn't make much sense to me when my resources get stressed constantly.

In addition, if you time SUB>HA>Stampede>HA>Dizzy>HA>DBoS>HA>Executioner with this setup, you usually kill or seriously injure your target and I couldn't see giving up my resources for more of any more burst.

3,500 stam recovery after continuous on SnB bar lets me kite zergs, deplete their resources and turn around and cook.

For example, on console PS4 NA, yellow and red always battle at the bridge and Sejanus. I peel off reds/yellows west of Sejanus to the small island and pack them up crossing the water and clean up the rest on the land. This Argonian with Bird of Prey (speed affects swimming) is a damn speed boat in the water.

Interesting. I guess that's just playstyle differences, having watched some of your stam warden gameplay I see the subtle differences between what you do and I what I do. While we both kite a lot, I prefer to kite and set up the SA-DB combo outside of LoS then step into los with my burst and preferably an empowered DB. Basically I think I'm playing a much more glass cannon setup with much less sustain than you. With the absence of a gap closer or Bird of Prey on my bars I have to lean on the cowards proc heavily for positioning, sometimes I'll just tap a sprint when a frag or incap is incoming for the mitigation it offers, but I also have to know when to block instead of trying to proc cowards. I'm sitting at "only" 2400 base regen, but I'm also using sprint more and roll less than you because of cowards which is giving me slightly bigger windows between kiting and burst. I run about 4200 self buffed weapon damage with a smaller stam pool which makes my sustain and kiting more difficult but the ensuing fights typically end faster. I do have to be much more careful with my initial position and how I engage people, but if you eat the SA-DB you're toasted.

I'm gonna throw some hunt gear on later and check it out for sure though, I'm really interested in using the rune defensively since I've always viewed it as an offensive proc to combo with your damage.

Sounds like fun. Does the two shackle swords (weap dmg) on your build give better return than 2 agility weapons (max stam)? I tried dual wield and couldn't do it unfortunately. No gap closer and the burst felt weird.

I ran through a few different setups and landed on this one. I find it odd hat despite stats and tool tips where you should have better results, I've found better outcomes usually lesser setups. I also wanted to shy away from the usual heavy armor builds that are ran on Warden. When you're 1vXing or small scale fighting large groups this patch, there are so many heavy armor magplars and heal builds that make it difficult enough in medium - in heavy we'd just be in a slap battle where no one dies or you slowly try to reverb/resource drain them to death.

In medium, with a nirnhoned weapon it adds double the damage

Call it 1500 max stam from agility+racials so 1600 max stam AND it isn't available in nirnhoned this patch.

129 weapon damage + 146 weapon damage for nirnhoned main hand *1.2(brutality)*1.12(medium passives) = 340 weapon damage.

If you drop the nirnhoned main hand weapon or have a nirnhoned agility 1h(next patch) then you only gain ~173 weapon damage, which is ~3 WD equivalent less than what the stam gives you, the weapon damage is still more attractive though because you won't have a full stam pool with 2pc agility on only 1 bar so you won't benefit from the sustain an increased pool usually gives. Then all it takes is one person applying minor brutality and you're back ahead damage wise.

This is one of the most overlooked things you can do to squeeze out extra damage. Its a medium armor only trick though unless you've got minor brutality as well since the 12% is what pushes you over the top.

And since I'm stacking so much damage that actually increases the effectiveness of minor berserk, being that the larger the initial hit the more actual bonus damage 8% gives you. But, I can't roll about like you and I have to be much more careful with timing since I don't have a gap closer. If i get the burst off but someone survives I've got a smaller window to get the kill while they're pressured because I can't as easily auto-target them for pursuit. Instead I have to sprint to reposition, which is a large part of why I chose cowards over hunt.

I'm pretty excited to see what I can do with hunt later on tonight though, I really want to try to use it defensively but I can't stop dreaming of dive+SA+hunt rune offensive combo either.

Just to point out smth. Agility and brutality (and everything similar) are additive. In CP the stam from agility would be more damage than the 129 (even with minor brutality), but by very little and light/heavy attacks obv profit more from the WD anyway. So you are right in that part (that it is better than agility). Even more so if you consider the nirn is now 15% and not 11%.

Nirn+infused shackle always gives higher fully buffed tooltips than agility without nirn if you have 5 medium. This is primarily because of the nirn bonus not that 129 weapon damage can ever be buffed to be as much damage as agility 2pc

As I said, it's a virtually irrelevant difference in damage once you can get agility in nirn

Hatoreehanzo wrote: »

@Lexxypwns I was thinking, if you mean the two together (eternal and cowards) you could troll zergs around the map pretty well.

That would be trolley AF for sure but your damage would be too low to do anything