Magicka DK Monster Helm?

Duragon_Darko · October 2017

I've always thought that Valkria was the way to go, but more and more I see builds with Julianos, BSW, double staff and no monster helm builds. Why is the no monster helm build now viable and is the damage almost even, close or just that much better?

Mustard · October 2017

Healing

Duragon_Darko · October 2017

Mustard wrote: »

Healing

? Don't get it.

Sigtric · October 2017

more raw/crit damage is better than proc'd damage in some cases. This is one of them.

The 5 pc bonuses for both sets do more for the mDK than a proc of valkyn or grothdar in a lot of situations, and you add 1pc iceheart for extra crit on top.

of course, much depends on the kind of content you're doing and how you play.

Duragon_Darko · October 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

more raw/crit damage is better than proc'd damage in some cases. This is one of them.

The 5 pc bonuses for both sets do more for the mDK than a proc of valkyn or grothdar in a lot of situations, and you add 1pc iceheart for extra crit on top.

of course, much depends on the kind of content you're doing and how you play.

Thanks for the response. I thought this at first too, but since Valkria procs off of DOTs, and since every attack magicka DK does is a DOT kinda.... it procs ALOT. Anyone else with an opinion or test numbers, just curious?

beetleklee · October 2017

I run the 5 Julianos 5 BSW 1 Slimecraw since it was easy to get. I can replace the helm depending on the situation. I'll run 1 Valkyn for the extra health and only lose 3% crit.
I also have a 4 Moondancer 5 BSW and 2 Grothdarr set up.
Damage is fairly close though the first does better on a dummy.
I would run Infallible Aether over Moondancer but RNG is awful for me when it comes to that set. I run Craglorn trials all the time and no one in my group ever gets that set. Tons of Immortal Yokuda of course, though.

Runefang · October 2017

Monster helms are just fun to run though, I work them into any build that I can. Real min-maxing is left for vet trials.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

I run Silks/BSW + Julianos + 1 pce Iceheart in a 5-1-1 setup. Works nicely and the damage is good.

I decided to change it up and bring a monster helm back into play so now i run:

Silks/BSW + Martial Knowledge + 2 pce Skoria in a 5-0-2 setup. Damage isnt that much less (though i'll need to run a dummy test to confirm) and the MK set looks boss as well tbf.

In all honesty though, like its been said, min/max builds are generally for Vet trails. Most other content you can run what you like (within reason).

Someitmes you gotta play the Fashion Scrolls game and MK does just that ;-)

Stannum · October 2017

For one piece monster build take Iceheart, bufore furniture patch when regens were not nerfed so heavily i used to go 5BSW(on one bar with 2 swords)+5SUN+2 grothdarr

jaws343 · October 2017

I run 2 Grothdar, 4 Elf Bane (Jewelry and chest), 5 Seducers with spell damage glyphs on my jewelry and weapons. I find the cost reduction of seducers really helps with the cost of DK skills in pvp and the spell damage from Elf Bane and enchants makes up for not running BSW or Juli.

I also run dual fire staves, which is why I do not have the 5th Elf Bane piece.

AverageJo3Gam3r · October 2017

PvE or PvP? In PvP, the burst from valkyn or ult gain from bloodspawn is hard to give up. In PvE, the minor slayer buff is one of the best buffs in the game. I think you'll find 3 or 4pc minor slayer set (war machine, moondancer, or infallible aether) and a monster set to be better than a 5pc. I recommend grothdar for PvE. It pulls its weight single target but really shines in AoE situations.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

PvE or PvP? In PvP, the burst from valkyn or ult gain from bloodspawn is hard to give up. In PvE, the minor slayer buff is one of the best buffs in the game. I think you'll find 3 or 4pc minor slayer set (war machine, moondancer, or infallible aether) and a monster set to be better than a 5pc. I recommend grothdar for PvE. It pulls its weight single target but really shines in AoE situations.

Out of war machine, moondancer, or infallible aether, which would you said is the easiest to grind / has the best drop rate? I've been looking to get one for a while and will more than likely go for body pieces over jewelry anyway so that should hopefully cut out half a battle.

AverageJo3Gam3r · October 2017

@Cybercore_Death they're all trials sets. So really it's whatever trial you like running the most.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Cybercore_Death they're all trials sets. So really it's whatever trial you like running the most.

I know they're trials sets. Just wondered if, from your experience, one set drops better than the other given how sporadic the RNG is in this game

AverageJo3Gam3r · October 2017

@Cybercore_Death ah. If you're looking at normal trials, I'd say master architect. I only had my infal aether drop when I started running vet craglorn trials. I've only run normal MoL, and never put together a set of moondancer. I've only run normal HoF, and have a full set of both master architect and war machine, some of which are BiS pieces. You're only after the 3 piece so it shouldn't take too many runs to put it together.

Runefang · October 2017

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Cybercore_Death they're all trials sets. So really it's whatever trial you like running the most.

I know they're trials sets. Just wondered if, from your experience, one set drops better than the other given how sporadic the RNG is in this game

I find MoL is run more often than HoF and the MD drop rate isn't too bad. So I'd aim for that one, after two runs I have a full set of armor.

Infallible Aether takes a lot of runs to get on normal, if you can run on Vet though you'll have a better time since gold jewellery isn't too rare.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

Runefang wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Cybercore_Death they're all trials sets. So really it's whatever trial you like running the most.

I know they're trials sets. Just wondered if, from your experience, one set drops better than the other given how sporadic the RNG is in this game

I find MoL is run more often than HoF and the MD drop rate isn't too bad. So I'd aim for that one, after two runs I have a full set of armor.

Infallible Aether takes a lot of runs to get on normal, if you can run on Vet though you'll have a better time since gold jewellery isn't too rare.

Its the armour i'd be aiming for anyway so thats really good to know, thankyou

Evil_Rurouni · October 2017

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

I run Silks/BSW + Julianos + 1 pce Iceheart in a 5-1-1 setup. Works nicely and the damage is good.

I decided to change it up and bring a monster helm back into play so now i run:

Silks/BSW + Martial Knowledge + 2 pce Skoria in a 5-0-2 setup. Damage isnt that much less (though i'll need to run a dummy test to confirm) and the MK set looks boss as well tbf.

In all honesty though, like its been said, min/max builds are generally for Vet trails. Most other content you can run what you like (within reason).

Someitmes you gotta play the Fashion Scrolls game and MK does just that ;-)

Just in case you aren't already aware @Cybercore_Death, the martial knowledge set is yokudan style.
So is infallible aether.
If you're planning on adding a trials set to get the slayer buff then IA might be the preferable option just for looks.

Julianos can be crafted in yokudan too if you can find a crafter who knows the style.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

I run Silks/BSW + Julianos + 1 pce Iceheart in a 5-1-1 setup. Works nicely and the damage is good.

I decided to change it up and bring a monster helm back into play so now i run:

Silks/BSW + Martial Knowledge + 2 pce Skoria in a 5-0-2 setup. Damage isnt that much less (though i'll need to run a dummy test to confirm) and the MK set looks boss as well tbf.

In all honesty though, like its been said, min/max builds are generally for Vet trails. Most other content you can run what you like (within reason).

Someitmes you gotta play the Fashion Scrolls game and MK does just that ;-)

Just in case you aren't already aware @Cybercore_Death, the martial knowledge set is yokudan style.
So is infallible aether.
If you're planning on adding a trials set to get the slayer buff then IA might be the preferable option just for looks.

Julianos can be crafted in yokudan too if you can find a crafter who knows the style.

Funny you should mention this as i ended up doing a search to find out what style it was.

I do however, wish i'd have come across it sooner seen as all my crafted Julianos is in Nord style (quite partial to the look).

Purely for stats and performance out of IA and MD which would you say is the better or is it minimal difference?

Olupajmibanan · October 2017

2 Grothdarr/5 Sun/3 Moondancer/Maelstrom Inferno front bar/Moondancer lightning back bar
is my setup.

Grothdarr is perfect for cleave dps. The best results you will notice in vMoL, the hardest PvE content in the game, because there is no single target fight at all.

Try for yourself. Grothdarr must do at least 5% of your dps to outperform Juli/Sun/Iceheart setup. Mine does 4,8% on target skely but goes much higher in group so I won't drop it along with minor slayer. There aren't many purely single target fights in end-game PvE.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

2 Grothdarr/5 Sun/3 Moondancer/Maelstrom Inferno front bar/Moondancer lightning back bar
is my setup.

Grothdarr is perfect for cleave dps. The best results you will notice in vMoL, the hardest PvE content in the game, because there is no single target fight at all.

Try for yourself. Grothdarr must do at least 5% of your dps to outperform Juli/Sun/Iceheart setup. Mine does 4,8% on target skely but goes much higher in group so I won't drop it along with minor slayer. There aren't many purely single target fights in end-game PvE.

Have you run Sun vs BSW to compare the difference? I seem to hit higher numbers using BSW over Sun.

Qbiken · October 2017

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

2 Grothdarr/5 Sun/3 Moondancer/Maelstrom Inferno front bar/Moondancer lightning back bar
is my setup.

Grothdarr is perfect for cleave dps. The best results you will notice in vMoL, the hardest PvE content in the game, because there is no single target fight at all.

Try for yourself. Grothdarr must do at least 5% of your dps to outperform Juli/Sun/Iceheart setup. Mine does 4,8% on target skely but goes much higher in group so I won't drop it along with minor slayer. There aren't many purely single target fights in end-game PvE.

Have you run Sun vs BSW to compare the difference? I seem to hit higher numbers using BSW over Sun.

You´ll get more damage with BSW compared to sun. Julianos is also a very good set. The difference between BSW and Julianos isn´t that big tbh either. Had a friend doing some test comparing juli and BSW. With BSW he got a 17% dps increase, with julianos he got a 15% dps increase, so we´re not talking big numbers here. Sun is nice because of the HP-bonus it gives you. It lets you run witchmother for more sustain.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

2 Grothdarr/5 Sun/3 Moondancer/Maelstrom Inferno front bar/Moondancer lightning back bar
is my setup.

Grothdarr is perfect for cleave dps. The best results you will notice in vMoL, the hardest PvE content in the game, because there is no single target fight at all.

Try for yourself. Grothdarr must do at least 5% of your dps to outperform Juli/Sun/Iceheart setup. Mine does 4,8% on target skely but goes much higher in group so I won't drop it along with minor slayer. There aren't many purely single target fights in end-game PvE.

Have you run Sun vs BSW to compare the difference? I seem to hit higher numbers using BSW over Sun.

You´ll get more damage with BSW compared to sun. Julianos is also a very good set. The difference between BSW and Julianos isn´t that big tbh either. Had a friend doing some test comparing juli and BSW. With BSW he got a 17% dps increase, with julianos he got a 15% dps increase, so we´re not talking big numbers here. Sun is nice because of the HP-bonus it gives you. It lets you run witchmother for more sustain.

Thats a very good point i'd overlooked. Sustain is the only thing i struggle with sometimes and have to break the rotation with a few HA to recover a little.

I'm yet to get hold of a minor slayer set. Its next on the list (if i can ever find a solid group for Trials running). I'd quite like to be running a monster set again so i went with 5 BSW / 4 MK / 2 Skoria in a 5-0-2 setup (would like to run Groth but i dont have 2 heavy pieces or 2 in divine yet cos RNG really hates me with that set for some reason).

The thing that doesnt make sense for me is that running that set gives me better phys / spell resist that running a 5-1-1 with heavy chest and medium legs. Only notable difference is around 40 spell damage less that BSW / Julianos / Iceheart and crit sits at 49% which isnt ideal. Though with the added proc from Skoria it wasnt that noticeable in terms of damage. Once i get it all on gold i'll run a proper test and see where its at

Duragon_Darko · October 2017

So I switched CP from tank to dps just because I was bored.

I'm running BSW 5pc, Julianos 5pc and Valkrie MH on second bar (using sword and shield) and BSW 4pc, Julianos 5pc and Valkrie MH on first bar with shock staff. Igneous Weapons, Rearming Trap, Elemental Drain and then Elemental Blockade on the 5-4-2, then switch to second bar with the 5-5-2 and go Engulfing Flames, Burning Talons, Eruption, and if Power Lash is up, spam it until Igneous Weapons is up OR if Flame Lash, just hit twice and switch bars back to 5-4-2 and Heavy Attack shock staff twice, and go back to Igneous Weapons and start over. Valkrie procs at least the once in that rotation, twice 75% of the time. BSW procs during the DOT's for Engulfing Flames, so you get the set bonus throughout the rest of the rotation.

Thanks for all the responses to this post. All of this was the reason behind me trying dps after being a tank for so long. Very cool responses, and I hope you guys enjoyed reading the answers as much as I did.

Any opinions on my build or rotation?

Evil_Rurouni · October 2017

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

I run Silks/BSW + Julianos + 1 pce Iceheart in a 5-1-1 setup. Works nicely and the damage is good.

I decided to change it up and bring a monster helm back into play so now i run:

Silks/BSW + Martial Knowledge + 2 pce Skoria in a 5-0-2 setup. Damage isnt that much less (though i'll need to run a dummy test to confirm) and the MK set looks boss as well tbf.

In all honesty though, like its been said, min/max builds are generally for Vet trails. Most other content you can run what you like (within reason).

Someitmes you gotta play the Fashion Scrolls game and MK does just that ;-)

Just in case you aren't already aware @Cybercore_Death, the martial knowledge set is yokudan style.
So is infallible aether.
If you're planning on adding a trials set to get the slayer buff then IA might be the preferable option just for looks.

Julianos can be crafted in yokudan too if you can find a crafter who knows the style.

Funny you should mention this as i ended up doing a search to find out what style it was.

I do however, wish i'd have come across it sooner seen as all my crafted Julianos is in Nord style (quite partial to the look).

Purely for stats and performance out of IA and MD which would you say is the better or is it minimal difference?

Unless you're using 5 pieces I wouldn't expect the difference to be very big, probably negligible unless really heavily min/maxing.
The 3 piece and 4 piece bonuses are identical, and the 2 piece bonuses are max mag (md) vs spell crit (IA), both of which are good.

I can't speak from personal experience with the sets unfortunately as my mains are healer and tank, with a stamsorc that gets occasional use.

Olupajmibanan · October 2017

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

2 Grothdarr/5 Sun/3 Moondancer/Maelstrom Inferno front bar/Moondancer lightning back bar
is my setup.

Grothdarr is perfect for cleave dps. The best results you will notice in vMoL, the hardest PvE content in the game, because there is no single target fight at all.

Try for yourself. Grothdarr must do at least 5% of your dps to outperform Juli/Sun/Iceheart setup. Mine does 4,8% on target skely but goes much higher in group so I won't drop it along with minor slayer. There aren't many purely single target fights in end-game PvE.

Have you run Sun vs BSW to compare the difference? I seem to hit higher numbers using BSW over Sun.

I run Witchmother so Sun is more than perfect for me. And I am completely happy with my dmg. My dps on target centurion with all group buffs is 46-50k. Could be possibly more but I am satisfied with my dps and so is my guild.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

2 Grothdarr/5 Sun/3 Moondancer/Maelstrom Inferno front bar/Moondancer lightning back bar
is my setup.

Grothdarr is perfect for cleave dps. The best results you will notice in vMoL, the hardest PvE content in the game, because there is no single target fight at all.

Try for yourself. Grothdarr must do at least 5% of your dps to outperform Juli/Sun/Iceheart setup. Mine does 4,8% on target skely but goes much higher in group so I won't drop it along with minor slayer. There aren't many purely single target fights in end-game PvE.

Have you run Sun vs BSW to compare the difference? I seem to hit higher numbers using BSW over Sun.

I run Witchmother so Sun is more than perfect for me. And I am completely happy with my dmg. My dps on target centurion with all group buffs is 46-50k. Could be possibly more but I am satisfied with my dps and so is my guild.

Thats some bloody good numbers. Would you mind running through your gear traits / weight / enchants and your rotation?

And i'm assuming those numbers have been hit this patch?

Qbiken · October 2017

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

2 Grothdarr/5 Sun/3 Moondancer/Maelstrom Inferno front bar/Moondancer lightning back bar
is my setup.

Grothdarr is perfect for cleave dps. The best results you will notice in vMoL, the hardest PvE content in the game, because there is no single target fight at all.

Try for yourself. Grothdarr must do at least 5% of your dps to outperform Juli/Sun/Iceheart setup. Mine does 4,8% on target skely but goes much higher in group so I won't drop it along with minor slayer. There aren't many purely single target fights in end-game PvE.

Have you run Sun vs BSW to compare the difference? I seem to hit higher numbers using BSW over Sun.

I run Witchmother so Sun is more than perfect for me. And I am completely happy with my dmg. My dps on target centurion with all group buffs is 46-50k. Could be possibly more but I am satisfied with my dps and so is my guild.

Thats some bloody good numbers. Would you mind running through your gear traits / weight / enchants and your rotation?

And i'm assuming those numbers have been hit this patch?

I´m also wondering how that´s possible. Best I can do with off-balance + drain support is 37k

P.S: Sustain isn´t very good on magDK either. I think the only way to make magDK competitive in endgame PvE content is to buff their ability to sustain without the NEED for off-balance support (unless you want to run a pure heavy attack build ofc, put a magsorc can do that better anyway) and flamelash.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2017

Duragon_Darko wrote: »

So I switched CP from tank to dps just because I was bored.

I'm running BSW 5pc, Julianos 5pc and Valkrie MH on second bar (using sword and shield) and BSW 4pc, Julianos 5pc and Valkrie MH on first bar with shock staff. Igneous Weapons, Rearming Trap, Elemental Drain and then Elemental Blockade on the 5-4-2, then switch to second bar with the 5-5-2 and go Engulfing Flames, Burning Talons, Eruption, and if Power Lash is up, spam it until Igneous Weapons is up OR if Flame Lash, just hit twice and switch bars back to 5-4-2 and Heavy Attack shock staff twice, and go back to Igneous Weapons and start over. Valkrie procs at least the once in that rotation, twice 75% of the time. BSW procs during the DOT's for Engulfing Flames, so you get the set bonus throughout the rest of the rotation.

Thanks for all the responses to this post. All of this was the reason behind me trying dps after being a tank for so long. Very cool responses, and I hope you guys enjoyed reading the answers as much as I did.

Any opinions on my build or rotation?

Get rid of s/b and use dual swords, they will give you a substantial increase in dps.

Cybercore_Death · October 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

2 Grothdarr/5 Sun/3 Moondancer/Maelstrom Inferno front bar/Moondancer lightning back bar
is my setup.

Grothdarr is perfect for cleave dps. The best results you will notice in vMoL, the hardest PvE content in the game, because there is no single target fight at all.

Try for yourself. Grothdarr must do at least 5% of your dps to outperform Juli/Sun/Iceheart setup. Mine does 4,8% on target skely but goes much higher in group so I won't drop it along with minor slayer. There aren't many purely single target fights in end-game PvE.

Have you run Sun vs BSW to compare the difference? I seem to hit higher numbers using BSW over Sun.

I run Witchmother so Sun is more than perfect for me. And I am completely happy with my dmg. My dps on target centurion with all group buffs is 46-50k. Could be possibly more but I am satisfied with my dps and so is my guild.

Thats some bloody good numbers. Would you mind running through your gear traits / weight / enchants and your rotation?

And i'm assuming those numbers have been hit this patch?

I´m also wondering how that´s possible. Best I can do with off-balance + drain support is 37k

P.S: Sustain isn´t very good on magDK either. I think the only way to make magDK competitive in endgame PvE content is to buff their ability to sustain without the NEED for off-balance support (unless you want to run a pure heavy attack build ofc, put a magsorc can do that better anyway) and flamelash.

Agreed. I've been using my DK for around 2.5 years now (give or take) and i'm watching him wither away with each patch... ideally would be nice if every build combo had the same output in terms of damage then we can just worry about what gear looks the coolest.... a la Dark Souls and being able to wear really awesome looking gear but still be in a position to put out some awesome damage numbers

Flameheart · October 2017

2x Grothdarr + 5x BSW + 4(5) x Moondancer (4 pieces Moondancer + Moondancer lightning staff on offbar) for a magDK in PvE is probably the best setup nowadays without a vMA staff, but maybe a 5/5/1 setup (with one useful one-piece-bonus like Molag Kena spell damage) might be viable too. So maybe 5x BSW + 5x SoS/Julianos + 1x Molag Kena if you don't have a vMA staff.