Are the developers out of good ideas?

Chronicburn · October 2017

It seems like once or twice a week now I read about a skill being nerfed , but I never hear about skills being improved or cool new skills being added.

Are the devs not just in a rut where they are just going to nerf everyone into equality and nerf the game into oblivion? (some pun intended)

All the creative efforts now seem 100% focused on sellable items (housing/costumes) and adding new zones to keep people paying, but he core combat is just becoming plain vanilla for everyone. Plus no one stand up against nerfs that don't affect them, so no one stands up for them with the nerfhammer swings their way.

I don't begrudge zos making money, but if this is the route they keep going down it feels like we'll just be playing some cheap phone app style eso game soon

Shadzilla · October 2017

No one likes their toons getting weaker. The simple fact is that achieving balance requires buffs to stuff that is under performing and nerfs to stuff that is OP. I hear the argument often to just buff everything but I personally do not want to see everyone and their dog being able to clear all content without any relative effort or skill. Therefore I approve of both buffing and nerfing of certain things. Not saying that they are always right on which things should be changed and how they change them, but nerfing is something that is a must and should keep happening until true balance is achieved. Which will be never, ever

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Chronicburn · October 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

No one likes their toons getting weaker. The simple fact is that achieving balance requires buffs to stuff that is under performing and nerfs to stuff that is OP. I hear the argument often to just buff everything but I personally do not want to see everyone and their dog being able to clear all content without any relative effort or skill. Therefore I approve of both buffing and nerfing of certain things. Not saying that they are always right on which things should be changed and how they change them, but nerfing is something that is a must and should keep happening until true balance is achieved. Which will be never .

I would agree with you in the first 12 (maybe 18) months after release. The designers definitely miss stuff that needs to be fixed to make a game playable.
However at this point they have just given up. They aren't improving game play. They are just placating whiners and trying to hang on and cash in before the games' imminent demise (imo)

I DO NOT HOWEVER AGREE that nerfs should continue until "true balance" is achieved... that is an unreasonable goal and they are ruining the game in a fruitless effort

LegacyDM · October 2017

Chronicburn wrote: »

It seems like once or twice a week now I read about a skill being nerfed , but I never hear about skills being improved or cool new skills being added.

Are the devs not just in a rut where they are just going to nerf everyone into equality and nerf the game into oblivion? (some pun intended)

All the creative efforts now seem 100% focused on sellable items (housing/costumes) and adding new zones to keep people paying, but he core combat is just becoming plain vanilla for everyone. Plus no one stand up against nerfs that don't affect them, so no one stands up for them with the nerfhammer swings their way.

I don't begrudge zos making money, but if this is the route they keep going down it feels like we'll just be playing some cheap phone app style eso game soon

Nah, I think a self damaging heal for a NB is a great creative idea! Lunch time brain storming sessions must be great at Zos hq.

Sarcasm off.

Shadzilla · October 2017

Chronicburn wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

No one likes their toons getting weaker. The simple fact is that achieving balance requires buffs to stuff that is under performing and nerfs to stuff that is OP. I hear the argument often to just buff everything but I personally do not want to see everyone and their dog being able to clear all content without any relative effort or skill. Therefore I approve of both buffing and nerfing of certain things. Not saying that they are always right on which things should be changed and how they change them, but nerfing is something that is a must and should keep happening until true balance is achieved. Which will be never .

I would agree with you in the first 12 (maybe 18) months after release. The designers definitely miss stuff that needs to be fixed to make a game playable.
However at this point they have just given up. They aren't improving game play. They are just placating whiners and trying to hang on and cash in before the games' imminent demise (imo)

I completely disagree. Earlier this year world record runs would require 6-8 mag sorc dps, depending on how many chains you need. With enough whining and complaining on these forums, that changed. We are now at a spot where for the 4th patch in this entire games existence, stamina toons are allowed to dps competitive score runs. I applaud them for that.

As far as the clown store goes, yea. They will always be spending more resources on a new set of eye lashes due to the fact there are so many barbie rp players that love spending hundreds of dollars on video game pixels. They keep getting a massive stream of clowns spending money in the clown store, it would be ridiculous for them not to keep that as their main focus from a business standpoint.

Rohamad_Ali · October 2017

Maybe . If they have some great ideas they sure are holding their cards very close to their chest this coming patch .

chuck-18_ESO · October 2017

Chronicburn wrote: »

I never hear about skills being improved or cool new skills being added.

I really feel like they missed the mark by not giving the original classes ANYTHING new to play with when Morrowind was released; it would have made it feel so much more like an expansion. I get that balance is tough, but the classes have been stagnant for ages now; the new ultimates are cool, definitely, but classes themselves need something to breathe a little new life into them.

Personally, I've played the four original classes so much over the years that they're just boring at this point; I only play my Warden now, which, inevitably, means I play much less ESO and, barring playing through new quest content once (maybe twice), will continue to dissuade me from playing until it changes.

There was some datamined imformation on Spellcrafting in an update a few months back, so I haven't completely given up hope on that, but I'm not holding my breath either, especially not for a long while.

Chronicburn · October 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

No one likes their toons getting weaker. The simple fact is that achieving balance requires buffs to stuff that is under performing and nerfs to stuff that is OP. I hear the argument often to just buff everything but I personally do not want to see everyone and their dog being able to clear all content without any relative effort or skill. Therefore I approve of both buffing and nerfing of certain things. Not saying that they are always right on which things should be changed and how they change them, but nerfing is something that is a must and should keep happening until true balance is achieved. Which will be never .

I would agree with you in the first 12 (maybe 18) months after release. The designers definitely miss stuff that needs to be fixed to make a game playable.
However at this point they have just given up. They aren't improving game play. They are just placating whiners and trying to hang on and cash in before the games' imminent demise (imo)

I completely disagree. Earlier this year world record runs would require 6-8 mag sorc dps, depending on how many chains you need. With enough whining and complaining on these forums, that changed. We are now at a spot where for the 4th patch in this entire games existence, stamina toons are allowed to dps competitive score runs. I applaud them for that.

As far as the clown store goes, yea. They will always be spending more resources on a new set of eye lashes due to the fact there are so many barbie rp players that love spending hundreds of dollars on video game pixels. They keep getting a massive stream of clowns spending money in the clown store, it would be ridiculous for them not to keep that as their main focus from a business standpoint.

But who cares if magsorcs are awesome. The solution isn't to beat them down (that's communism) the solution is to get creative and make the other classes even more awesome... and if you go too far you may have to even come back and improve the sorc again too ... my point is they have given up making things better creatively and have just settled into a pattern of shared suffering and mediocrity

Iluvrien · October 2017

Mechanics tend to be part of the core game, and so are much harder to monetise unless it is in the shape of an entirely new class (hello Warden). You can thank the shift away from P2P for that one.

That said, Tamriel is huge and ZOS have said they want to cover all of it some day. As such, them continuing to focus on the missing zones is fine by me. I don't play MMOs for mechanics, I play MMOs to enjoy a setting with friends. No complaints here about new zones. New crown store stuff that should be in the base game? Yeah, that's a steaming pile of Ogrim excrement.

neverwalk · October 2017

Q2 2018 comes new chapter

Shadzilla · October 2017

Chronicburn wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

No one likes their toons getting weaker. The simple fact is that achieving balance requires buffs to stuff that is under performing and nerfs to stuff that is OP. I hear the argument often to just buff everything but I personally do not want to see everyone and their dog being able to clear all content without any relative effort or skill. Therefore I approve of both buffing and nerfing of certain things. Not saying that they are always right on which things should be changed and how they change them, but nerfing is something that is a must and should keep happening until true balance is achieved. Which will be never .

I would agree with you in the first 12 (maybe 18) months after release. The designers definitely miss stuff that needs to be fixed to make a game playable.
However at this point they have just given up. They aren't improving game play. They are just placating whiners and trying to hang on and cash in before the games' imminent demise (imo)

I completely disagree. Earlier this year world record runs would require 6-8 mag sorc dps, depending on how many chains you need. With enough whining and complaining on these forums, that changed. We are now at a spot where for the 4th patch in this entire games existence, stamina toons are allowed to dps competitive score runs. I applaud them for that.

As far as the clown store goes, yea. They will always be spending more resources on a new set of eye lashes due to the fact there are so many barbie rp players that love spending hundreds of dollars on video game pixels. They keep getting a massive stream of clowns spending money in the clown store, it would be ridiculous for them not to keep that as their main focus from a business standpoint.

But who cares if magsorcs are awesome. The solution isn't to beat them down (that's communism) the solution is to get creative and make the other classes even more awesome... and if you go too far you may have to even come back and improve the sorc again too ... my point is they have given up making things better creatively and have just settled into a pattern of shared suffering and mediocrity

I don't think you understand. Here is an example, for instance, say you have 100 things in a game... What if 10 of those things are really overpowered. Would it be easier to bring the 10 things down to the other 90 things level, or would it be better to bring the 90 things up to the 10's level... Its not insanely difficult to understand... Then throwing in the fact that content like end game trials, vma, dsa, all that stuff would be simply a breeze for the newest of newbs due to the fact that everything was made super easy because people don't like getting nerfed. Try to look at all the aspects of your suggested solutions to your apparent problems before making irrational statements.

LadyLavina · October 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

No one likes their toons getting weaker. The simple fact is that achieving balance requires buffs to stuff that is under performing and nerfs to stuff that is OP. I hear the argument often to just buff everything but I personally do not want to see everyone and their dog being able to clear all content without any relative effort or skill. Therefore I approve of both buffing and nerfing of certain things. Not saying that they are always right on which things should be changed and how they change them, but nerfing is something that is a must and should keep happening until true balance is achieved. Which will be never, ever .

While I'm usually w/ you on stuff , in this case I feel they should really just buff the under performing sets/classes/abilities/whatever rather than nerfing anything that stands out/is good and thus gets used alot. This prevents people who get wrecked by these nerfs from having all of the time they spent acquiring the sets/gold they spent tempering be for nothing. At least to some degree.

AzraelKrieg · October 2017

ZOS could improve something, but then people would complain because it would be the wrong skill they improved. ZOS could add new skills, but then people would complain they are adding skills instead of fixing the skills that are already in the game. ZOS nerfs or adjusts things that are clearly overperforming, people complain. You see the pattern?

Mojmir · October 2017

I'm still waiting for a "good idea" than we can talk about if they're out of them.

AzraelKrieg · October 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a "good idea" than we can talk about if they're out of them.

You'd be dead by then. I'd stop waiting if I were you.

eso_nya · October 2017

Its the qq of the wannabe-1vx-fails that gets stuff nerfed, not bored devs who dont know what else to do.

I'd be more happy if they would stop reading forums and wasting time on explaining/justifying changes. Have the mods look over it and compile a list once a month "good ideas", "major concerns" and so on. Give another mod ginas account to send in some gifs and keep ppl believing that gamedevelopment is a democracy.

Teridaxus · October 2017

They do both buffs and nerfs, it normally takes weeks or even months for people to figure out how good each buff is since very often they complety redesign a set/skill while nerfs are pretty obvious and people love powercreep anyway.

But i do think in their office is a dart board and every 3 months they throw at it with a blindfold on to decide on what they focus.

Skander · October 2017

They nerfed cleansing, by 14% more mag cost. Yes they are, they keep sayin "if you want to win, be a casual and keep zerging"