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Discrimination
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WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PC is better for text communication. A PC that will run this game costs about €600-800 though so it's a bit of an investment but it won't leave you disadvantaged or discrimated against like the very basic console version.PC EU2 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PrimordialOdd wrote: »After reading this in full so far, i understand PC’s better and if I could I would but alas I’m a console player. Those whose share similar plights, nothing will change if you don’t speak out. I’m happy to see a few but the same time I’m not surprised to see some who just like to butt heads ha. Discrimination though is on point, there is thousands of types more than countless times. I’m quite aware of it, but unlike those who chooses to sit back doing nothing about it or those who just rather ride around on their high horses.. you set every human beings out there back, yourself included. My point with shunning those who are not able to simply use mic- is indeed discriminating. Look your local law library up like myself. ZoS further supports it by not providing voice to text as someone mentioned and instead just focuses on crown stores goodies to steal from people instead of trying to make improvements and performance updates. I love ESO don’t get me wrong but even Skyrim and the old morrowind was fantastic with its bugs and all even too
All I will say to you is this. It's not Discrimination if the Software Writers have provided a means by which you can get what you want on a different platform and you choose not to take that option.@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
Sanguine & Psijic Group Beta Tester.
NA Server:Steforax Soulstrong CH782 Sorcerer ADEU Server:
Grumpy Kahjiti CH782 Dragonknight AD
Rheticia Le Drakisius CH782 Nightblade DC
Razmuzan Thrasmas CH782 Templar EP
Sheenara Soulstrong CH782 Dragonknight DC
Erik Ramzey CH782 Nightblade AD
Growling Kahjiti CH782 Nightblade EP
One of Many Faces CH782 Sorcerer DC
Grumpasaurus Rex CH782 Warden DCGuildmaster of Pacrooti's Hirelings AD Based LGBT Friendly Guild.
Stefrex Souliss CH701 Sorcerer AD
Grumpy Kahjiti CH701 Dragonknight DC
Slithisi Ksissi CH701 Nightblade EP
Pokes-With-Fire CH701 Dragonknight AD
Josie-The-Pussi-Cat CH701 Templar AD
Stug-Grog M'God CH701 Templar DC
One With Many Faces CH701 Nightblade DC
Trixie Truskan CH701 Sorcerer EP
Grumpetasaurus Rex CH701 Warden EP2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
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Really? Do you treat someone with down syndrome the same as you treat anyone else? Would you hire someone to be a surgeon if the person in question has no hands?
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people should be treated differently because everyone is different. that doesnt mean treated with disrespect. my mother currently has her foot in plaster. Do you think people are more or less likely to open a door for her than for someone who is able to move perfectly fine? yes, people do. They treat her differently because of her foot.
there is nothing wrong with being treated differently. There is only something wrong with being treated disrespectfully.
Precisely so however I don’t expect to be treated as lesser, so because your mum has a foot injury and lets say she applies a job, I wouldn’t like, say, oh hey here’s a job.. oh wait foot injury? No thank you, thanks for applying though. That’s what I mean about being treated lesser, if I’m bedridden okay that’s one thing but if I’m functional and looking to make it work then why am I being treated less as if I can’t do crap? So treat everyone the way you’d expect to be treated, but especially for those trying to make it work.Was the guildmate the GM of the guild? I would suggest that you speak to the GM about removing the no text policy. If they are unwilling to do that then it may be best for you to find a different guild.
No, if it was it would been said, but as for resolving the issue, as said this is a first from my guild and I’m not one to hold a grudge. I only address it with the GM if it becomes a issue often.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For what it's worth, the standard in the US, when it comes to disabilities is, "can you do the work with reasonable accommodations?" Which kinda cuts the legs out from under that handless surgeon concept, leaving him to gnaw at our legs.
Beyond that, I would think that @PrimordialOdd would probably be happier on PC, given that most communication there is via text. But, ultimately that's their decision to make.1 -
[/quote]
This is on consoles as well
Hopefully it helps OP. I come from a family with quite a few deaf individuals and I certainly understand how frustrated they get when communication is hampered. [/quote]
Erm really? I’ve searched every options, did not see a option to change chat colors other than what it’s already set to be (green for guilds, white for public, grayish white for zone, etc) If it wasn’t clearly said- it’s guild chats being colored I look for, 5 guilds chatting away is seriously just a mess, picking out what guildie said this and that. An example of a improvement would be: guild 1 being red, guild 2 being orange, guild 3 being yellow, guild 4 being green, guild 5 being blue. Etc really
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Really? Do you treat someone with down syndrome the same as you treat anyone else? Would you hire someone to be a surgeon if the person in question has no hands?
Logic you do not have, or common sense you would have, hmmmmmm......
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Zbigb4life wrote: »The reason why some people think everyone should be treated equally despite their differences/problems is beyond me. There is nothing ZOS can do about it and you should adapt and get used to the idea that people won't treat you the same as they treat others. Discrimination is something everyone uses and will ever use.
I vote NO to adapt to discrimination! How would you justify that people should accept that they are discriminated?
It’s like basically someone puts their dirty old boots, step on your face and say ‘hey, it’s part of life so just accept it’
Like.. really? It won’t take one person to make a change but certainly the more of us who speaks out and act, well tides be changing
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PrimordialOdd wrote: »Erm really? I’ve searched every options, did not see a option to change chat colors other than what it’s already set to be (green for guilds, white for public, grayish white for zone, etc) If it wasn’t clearly said- it’s guild chats being colored I look for, 5 guilds chatting away is seriously just a mess, picking out what guildie said this and that. An example of a improvement would be: guild 1 being red, guild 2 being orange, guild 3 being yellow, guild 4 being green, guild 5 being blue. Etc really
On the PC, it's under "Social." I have no idea where it's hiding under the controller UI.0 -
WillhelmBlack wrote: »PC is better for text communication. A PC that will run this game costs about €600-800 though so it's a bit of an investment but it won't leave you disadvantaged or discrimated against like the very basic console version.SteveCampsOut wrote: »PrimordialOdd wrote: »After reading this in full so far, i understand PC’s better and if I could I would but alas I’m a console player. Those whose share similar plights, nothing will change if you don’t speak out. I’m happy to see a few but the same time I’m not surprised to see some who just like to butt heads ha. Discrimination though is on point, there is thousands of types more than countless times. I’m quite aware of it, but unlike those who chooses to sit back doing nothing about it or those who just rather ride around on their high horses.. you set every human beings out there back, yourself included. My point with shunning those who are not able to simply use mic- is indeed discriminating. Look your local law library up like myself. ZoS further supports it by not providing voice to text as someone mentioned and instead just focuses on crown stores goodies to steal from people instead of trying to make improvements and performance updates. I love ESO don’t get me wrong but even Skyrim and the old morrowind was fantastic with its bugs and all even too
All I will say to you is this. It's not Discrimination if the Software Writers have provided a means by which you can get what you want on a different platform and you choose not to take that option.starkerealm wrote: »For what it's worth, the standard in the US, when it comes to disabilities is, "can you do the work with reasonable accommodations?" Which kinda cuts the legs out from under that handless surgeon concept, leaving him to gnaw at our legs.
Beyond that, I would think that @PrimordialOdd would probably be happier on PC, given that most communication there is via text. But, ultimately that's their decision to make.starkerealm wrote: »PrimordialOdd wrote: »Erm really? I’ve searched every options, did not see a option to change chat colors other than what it’s already set to be (green for guilds, white for public, grayish white for zone, etc) If it wasn’t clearly said- it’s guild chats being colored I look for, 5 guilds chatting away is seriously just a mess, picking out what guildie said this and that. An example of a improvement would be: guild 1 being red, guild 2 being orange, guild 3 being yellow, guild 4 being green, guild 5 being blue. Etc really
On the PC, it's under "Social." I have no idea where it's hiding under the controller UI.
Onccccccccce again, it is not PC I’m seeking to address this issue. I’m already, more than once, am aware of it. It isn’t my original point, the original point is aimed at consoles. If it was PC, I’d be over on PC chats and all. This is primarily the issue with PS4 players, ergo console players.
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As one said earlier, we do for the most part have access to keyboard for PS4 ESO so we could basically useeee commands -.- That’s just to be simple and lazy addressing it, but by having keyboard connected we could have commands slotted on them. Add an option in-game for when a keyboard’s connected. Slot/set up your commands or whatever. Then.. Mere press of those keys would not interfere the gameplay, gasp! I know, genius right? Smh -.-
Edited: choice wordsEdited by PrimordialOdd on October 9, 2017 11:52AM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PrimordialOdd wrote: »Onccccccccce again, it is not PC I’m seeking to address this issue. I’m already, more than once, am aware of it. It isn’t my original point, the original point is aimed at consoles. If it was PC, I’d be over on PC chats and all. This is primarily the issue with PS4 players, ergo console players.
Yeah, I was telling you, I know how to find the setting on PC. I didn't know, though someone else in the thread confirmed, it does exist in the PS4 interface. I just can't tell you how to find it, because I don't know the controller UI.
As for voice comms, and discrimination you're facing there, there's honestly not much any of us can suggest except to say, "find a guild, make friends, run dungeons with them."0 -
Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other player sounds like an idiot. Sadly there's idiots in all walks of life.
In my previous long term MMO, my guild had a "must have mic" rule for raids, but there was one deaf player, and wherever she came along, everything was typed in text for her benefit.
The lack of empathy from some players is beyond me (mind you the lack of empathy by many in real life is also beyond me)3 -
PurpleDrank✭✭✭Why do people keep bringing up employment examples as though it means anything in this case? It absolutely sucks that they did this and if it were me I'd leave that guild immediately, add everyone involved to my block list, and find one who was more accommodating to my needs. However, there is nothing that forces anyone to play with anyone else for any reason, and certainly no law that forces them to. Things like the Americans with Disabilities Act protect you from discrimination in employment, public transportation and government activities - they don't force other people to play games with you.
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D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
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Not an argument.
Really? Do you treat someone with down syndrome the same as you treat anyone else? Would you hire someone to be a surgeon if the person in question has no hands?
Weak argument. Down syndrom and a surgeon with no hands? Grow up. Clown
No you just failed.2 -
LadyLavina✭✭✭✭✭
✭As good of an idea as this is, ya kinda lost me with the 'Discrimination" thread title.
Not having support for a particular group does not equal discrimination unless there is something out there that specifically states or proves that support is deliberately being withheld.Edited by LadyLavina on October 10, 2017 5:11AMPC - NA @LadyLavina 1800+ CP PvP Tank and PvP Healer1 -
LadyLavina wrote: »As good of an idea as this is, ya kinda lost me with the 'Discrimination" thread title.
Not having support for a particular group does not equal discrimination unless there is something out there that specifically states or proves that support is deliberately being withheld.
Erm.. this has been said- this is ZoS, not providing means such as those; the example I gave is what I said of my guild. But it isn’t ‘oh I want that guildie banned or whatever’ I clearly said I’m willing to STILL work with them. When I asked for support issues, talked about setting accessibility for people like myself, I get put on a back burner. For a long time. All the while ZoS doesn’t address this, which is unfortunate in times like these days where businesses don’t care about consumers as long profits keeps flowing.
With that general sense, it’s better to have more people speak out and make a change instead of laying back and saying ‘go ahead, step on me and walk over me’0 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »We have no way to use voice chat on PC with PUGs, and nobody types anything. There is absolutely no reason to communicate for any content in this game other than vet trials and vet DLC dungeons (and even then, if you've done them a bunch of times, you really don't need to communicate). Some people are *** and make a fuss over the most menial ***.
PvP requires communication as well.0 -
Storymaster✭✭✭✭✭The reason why some people think everyone should be treated equally despite their differences/problems is beyond me.
Beyond disturbing.
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ssewallb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Really? Do you treat someone with down syndrome the same as you treat anyone else? Would you hire someone to be a surgeon if the person in question has no hands?
You're conflating equal treatment with equal outcome. If someone is hired as a surgeon over someone else with no hands, for obvious reasons, both are being treated equally. They are both being evaluated based on what they can provide, and one is selected based on superior qualities for the specific job. Selecting one because of an inherent quality, rather than what they can provide, would be unequal treatment.0 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭PrimordialOdd wrote: »I’m here today to address an issue for those who are deaf
Interesting bit from this weekend I'd like to pass along to you. I'm on PS4 NA and there is a guy I've semi-played with for some time now. Turns out, he enjoys PvPing with me--but admitted to me this weekend, that he cannot speak english, and doesn't use a mic for PS4. Even in group chat. I already knew it was a language barrier thing before he said anything about it, he is not the first person I have met who is intimidated by the language barrier. Several PS4 players play on NA and cannot read/speak the English language.
Regardless, I have said to him many times before learning that, that I read his mind while we fight. The silly thing is I don't think he could hear me! I should really let him know that huh? I feel really silly for assuming he has a headset and listens in. I do take a lot of pride in my ability to read and translate body language. He should probably take solace in that.Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on October 10, 2017 3:23PM0 -
lailoken✭✭I'm also a deaf gamer with similar issues. At least, the PC guild I'm in has been very supportive in using text to let me know where and what I need to do when we run new places (we did Maw a couple weeks back.. took us 3+ hours to do as we were all clueless as to what to do, a big chunk of that figuring the final fight out. I'm told the 2nd run went smoother, and we're planning a 3rd run maybe on 10/22/17..).
There has been a few times I've popped on a pug trail raid, only to have someone insist on voice only, text is banned. One group that comes to mind, kept spamming 'LF3M DPS' for a long period of time after I left the group.. (seriously, get a clue.. if people kept leaving your group after joining, there's something wrong with your group.) I left a few other MMOs that was starting to get into the "VOICE OR GFTO" mentality, such as WoW and GW2.
I came to ESO after leaving GW2's Heart of the Thorn update, primarily because of the new raid mechanism that lended heavily to requiring voice communication due to the randomness of the raid encounters (I haven't gone back since, so I don't honestly know if they figured the raid mechanism out, and now allows for text communicating), and the guild I was in was unapologetic in lending me support with the raids. The raids was the entire reason I purchased Heart of Thorns, and being excluded from the end game due to the raid mechanics (I probably should reinstall GW2, and see if this is still a thing) due to my disability was heartbreaking to the point i'm still pissed about blindly purchasing the $99 expansion set. Since then, I've always decided to just hold off and wait for them to go on sale, which is what I'm doing currently with the Morrowind expansion.
I left WoW to go play GW2 mainly for this reason as well. The WoW raiding is 'srsbzn, voice or gtfo' was a big enough turnoff that I happily left after the Cataclysm expansion (after levelling all of my characters to the new level cap, of course).
I do have a PS4, and I have considered trying to get ESO, but every time I've tried to play with a controller on my PC, I've always ended up going back to my trusty keyboard and mouse combo. I'm jealous of my kids abilities to play FPS and similar games on the PS4 nearly flawlessly, and when I try, I find myself feeling awkward to the point I'm eyeballing my mouse and keyboard. Mad props to those of you who can play the game with a controller. Maybe I'll just roll a new character for controller only and see how that goes.
OP, consider forming your own guild, as some of the others in this thread as suggested. We're certainly not limited to one at a time.
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lailoken✭✭starkerealm wrote: »For what it's worth, the standard in the US, when it comes to disabilities is, "can you do the work with reasonable accommodations?" Which kinda cuts the legs out from under that handless surgeon concept, leaving him to gnaw at our legs.
Beyond that, I would think that @PrimordialOdd would probably be happier on PC, given that most communication there is via text. But, ultimately that's their decision to make.
Incorrect. It's "Can you work with OR without reasonable accommodation." For some people (mainly hiring managers), this seems to be a complex statement to resolve, but it really isn't.
The requirement is simply, can I do the work, with or without reasonable accommodation? If the answer is yes to either, then they can't use my disability (deafness in this case) as an excuse to not hire me.
For example (the following two examples are real life examples from my personal experience), suppose I apply for a job that requires heavy phone usage, for example, desktop support. I can be fairly excluded from the job since I wouldn't be able to do the work, with or without reasonable accommodation, at least, not without the company investing in a significant way to accommodate *JUST* me.
But, if I were to apply for another job, that doesn't require phone usage, for example, being a front line manager for an electronics manufacturing company, reasonable accommodation could be made to help me perform my job (when someone called my desk or paged me, my assistant (all of the front line managers had an assistant) would either answer the phone, or let me know I was being paged. In this case, despite my hearing disability, I'm able to perform the major function of my job with or without reasonable accommodation, as there were several other aspect of the job that did not require my being able to hear; it just required me to communicate, and communicate I did. In this case, I could do the work, with reasonable accommodation (my assistant alerted me when I got a call or a page, and every front line manager had an assistant in case we called in sick, requested time off, or we're covering for another manufacturing line), and without reasonable accommodation (I could do the paperwork that the job required without my assistant).
However, IANAL, so, fellow players, don't take what I've said as legal fact. My post is just a rebuttal to the statement "can you do the work with reasonable accommodation", which left out the other part of the ADA requirement; "or without".0 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭I came to ESO after leaving GW2's Heart of the Thorn update, primarily because of the new raid mechanism that lended heavily to requiring voice communication due to the randomness of the raid encounters (I haven't gone back since, so I don't honestly know if they figured the raid mechanism out, and now allows for text communicating), and the guild I was in was unapologetic in lending me support with the raids. The raids was the entire reason I purchased Heart of Thorns, and being excluded from the end game due to the raid mechanics (I probably should reinstall GW2, and see if this is still a thing) due to my disability was heartbreaking to the point i'm still pissed about blindly purchasing the $99 expansion set. Since then, I've always decided to just hold off and wait for them to go on sale, which is what I'm doing currently with the Morrowind expansion.
That is really horrible.
For Morrowind though, mostly with Battlegrounds, you don't need to be on a mic. I've done it(on PS4) with my headset on and rarely had any one talk. You would pretty much just need to educate yourself on the different Battleground game modes and that is just about it!
Cannot say the same with the HoF trial though.0 -
Dharnagon✭✭✭Would be cool if ZOS could give u a PC copy.
Do you have a computer that can handle the game?
If so p-chat addon would help you a lot.
I PvP with a deaf person, she is awesome and stays on the crown even more than most of our guys in teamspeak. We give her some text callouts and that's impressive how good she is on her stamblade.
About people who discriminate, try not to bother. Their heart can't attend to one of the most important callouts... empathy.
Keep it up!The Pride of The Eagle is its power itself!
Eagles, Advance!2 -
lailoken✭✭Would be cool if ZOS could give u a PC copy.
Do you have a computer that can handle the game?
If so p-chat addon would help you a lot.
I PvP with a deaf person, she is awesome and stays on the crown even more than most of our guys in teamspeak. We give her some text callouts and that's impressive how good she is on her stamblade.
About people who discriminate, try not to bother. Their heart can't attend to one of the most important callouts... empathy.
Keep it up!
It would be cool if we could get a discount on alternative platform copies, or at the very least, the abilities to use characters we've already built up on different platforms (I *MIGHT* be tempted to buy/spend crowns on this).1 -
Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭You chose to pick a console over a pc. So its not discrimination that way. Stop complaining.It would be if they only gave you the option to play on a console, wich they didnt.Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh2 -
lailoken✭✭You chose to pick a console over a pc. So its not discrimination that way. Stop complaining.It would be if they only gave you the option to play on a console, wich they didnt.
Not everyone has the luxury, or desire to have a multiple system to play a game. The only reason I have a Wii U and a PS4 is because "kids". Barring kids, we wouldn't even be bothering with the consoles (YAY PC MASTER RACE!).
Kids, my desktop is mine. Keep yer grubby fingers off it (no, not really, they can and do use the PC when I'm at work)! The other reason I don't have ESO on the PS4 is that I don't want to pay a full price, and re-grind my characters back to where my mains are at, plus, controllers.. <shudder>
It's too bad that software companies aren't using the Intel's "Copy Exactly!" mantra with their software. I'm not sure if there's a technical limitation as to why they PS4 guild chat can't have different colors. It's not like the PS4 is only limited to 16 colors, or has a limited memory space that requires limiting text colors to a select few colors.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭However, IANAL, so, fellow players, don't take what I've said as legal fact. My post is just a rebuttal to the statement "can you do the work with reasonable accommodation", which left out the other part of the ADA requirement; "or without".
In this case, the, "or without," clause is mostly academic. If the law was written the way I typed it, the ADA would not apply protections to someone who had a disability completely irrespective of their job. For example: someone working a phone bank from a wheelchair.
However: in this case we were talking about a surgeon with no hands applying to Black Knight Medical Services & Bridge Guarding, so the, "or without," is basically irrelevant for slapping a stupid scenario around.0