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Level Scaling: Was it a good idea?

themaddaedra
themaddaedra
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Bot trains, 15 level people farming BiS stuff around, more and more endgame players quitting ESO each day... So, what do you guys think? Was level scaling a good idea at all?
Edited by themaddaedra on October 8, 2017 8:03AM
PC|EU

Level Scaling: Was it a good idea? 278 votes

Yes, it was a good idea.
65%
IcyDeadPeopleSirAndyakredon_ESOSolarikendodgehopper_ESOkevlarto_ESOWicked_WolfBelegnoleNewBlacksmurfBigBraggOnuRudyardPlagueSDwenchmore420b14_ESOMadyNemesis7884Azuryadanielclarkb16_ESOAimoraDhukath 181 votes
No, it was a bad idea.
26%
vailjohn_ESOMojmirGrymmoireYulsElsterchenlmanteb16_ESOZaeniddRainfeatherUKBarsFeraltigerb16_ESOJadde_dahlbergb16_ESOola.wilhelmssonb16_ESOAnath_QValen_Bytesparafucilsarwb17_ESOerebozxSkullfoxHanzusSkoomahMasterSpatula 73 votes
I don't care.
2%
Cpt_TeemoFearlessOne_2014AlexandriousZvorginZephyris_KalnorisCaim12Morgul667FakeFox 8 votes
Other(please explain).
5%
ZardayneOjustabooHuyenDreeparootimusCherryblossomnewtinmplssadownikwolfxspiceThe_ProtagonistRohamad_AliTasearFluffyReachWitchMystrius_ArchaionChronicburnMinarasLaure 16 votes
  • Slick_007
    Slick_007
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    No, it was a bad idea.
    you could walk into a higher level zone and get a sense of achievement for killing things. no longer.
  • Huyen
    Huyen
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    Other(please explain).
    The idea is good. The implementation (as with a lot of things) is horrible.
    Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
    Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
    Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
    Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
    Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)

    "Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh
  • Rohamad_Ali
    Rohamad_Ali
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    Other(please explain).
    I'm discovering a lot of things were bad that seemed good at first after playing some different games . Level scaling has good and bad elements . NPCs that level scale could still be a challenge if th PVE is scaled correctly . Some things should not be level scaled all the way like Lead Monsters , NPCs and Bosses . This keeps older content and areas challenging .

    Fast travel . Fast travel seems good until I realized it shrinks the world down into a theme park . Super fast mounts do the same . Worlds feel bigger when you have to travel and the NPCs are challenging every where . There's more but I don't want to derail the topic .
  • Nord_Templar
    Nord_Templar
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    No, it was a bad idea.
    Of course, no. Everything has its price. How can a player with a game experience of 3 years be equal to a player playing 1 month? Obviously, this "communism" is not possible.
  • JasonSilverSpring
    JasonSilverSpring
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    Bots have been around before level scaling. Level scaling may have caused some players to leave but it also brought many back like me.

    I quit ESO about a year before 1T because I was out leveling everything as I did zones. Quests were 4 or 5 levels below me. Where is the challenge there? No way could I dare play any DLC because I would get even further ahead.

    I love that I can revisit old zones and not just one shot kill everything. Level scaling is not perfect but in my opinion it is the best thing ZOS has done to this game.
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    OneT was a great change, opened up all zones that were pointless before once outleveled. It's a significant improvement.

    Sure its made lower level crafting etc a bit out of place and i tho k while leveling 1-50 the old way was better. But once you are at CP etc its a better game for it
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
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    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
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    Xbox One | NA | EP
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  • ADarklore
    ADarklore
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    I think ZOS has demonstrated with its decisions within the past year that they don't really care about 'endgame' players... I think they know the majority of their players are quest/adventurers and that's where they are devoting the majority of resources to pleasing.
    CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
    ~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~
  • Mgghool
    Mgghool
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    No, it was a bad idea.
    Well it is kind of double edged sword. I think that battle leveling is not necessary as long there are differenciated zones or layers of danger inside every zone - closer to civilization the less dangerous foes you encounter, and for example main roads would be safe, so even fresh noob could be traveling through zone, but questing and going off the road would be very dangerous. And of course not every zone should be equal - some more dangerous than other, but not like this is zone for cp 10-50 and all MOBs are CP 10-50 even the trash mobs.
  • Rex-Umbra
    Rex-Umbra
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    Good idea but improvments needed. Difficulty slider for overworld and get rid of the bots.
    Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
    GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    I'm discovering a lot of things were bad that seemed good at first after playing some different games . Level scaling has good and bad elements . NPCs that level scale could still be a challenge if th PVE is scaled correctly . Some things should not be level scaled all the way like Lead Monsters , NPCs and Bosses . This keeps older content and areas challenging .

    Fast travel . Fast travel seems good until I realized it shrinks the world down into a theme park . Super fast mounts do the same . Worlds feel bigger when you have to travel and the NPCs are challenging every where . There's more but I don't want to derail the topic .

    I don't have the inclination to go on at length but essentially I agree with this. Skyrim did it well by having some bosses remain higher tier. That being said the inability to team at the outset of the game was horrible and level splits and gear hamster wheels are in my view bad for MMO's on the whole.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
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    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    It is great!

    People want to explore when they play a ES game. Level gating or creating no go zones for low level players is terrible for exploration. And pushes people away from the game and doesn't allow people time to get hooked.

    "oh no I want to visit Riften again but I got 1 shot by a mudcrab this game is stupid I am gone."

    Yes I know older ES games have had some level gating... like It was terrible in ES3 everytime I wandered into a cave and got insta gibbed by an unfathomable horror.... that is old school RPG thinking that isn't how it is in modern games are designed.

    They need an easy learning curve and to appeal to lots of different players. You don't want the game to be gatekeeping people from doing what they want to do. yeah I know the game still does that to some extent. And gatekeeping until you earn it is part of MMOs nature. But this game is never going to compete with other MMOs by being a classic MMO. It needs to appeal to non traditional MMO players and bring them into the fold.

    The issue isn't the level scaling the issue is there is no reason to learn advanced techiniques from people used to crushing everything in skyrim and everything in the quest zones. I am thinking we may need an Undaunted training quest instead of the "go into a dungeon" undaunted quest... things like how to tank, heal and dps effectively. There is just a little Healer symbol on heal skills and tank symbols on taunt skills and that is all the help given.
  • BlanketFort
    BlanketFort
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    It's nice. Before level scaling, by the time I had finished all quests in one zone, I was already a couple of levels above the next, which only made it easier and the xp was less, I skipped a lot of quest in the beginning because once I overleveled t, everything was way too easy and questing was unrewarding.

    Those who cry out unfairness because low level players are just as strong as they are, don't seem to understand how level scaling works with gear before you hit 160CP. The stats eventually even out at 160CP and besides, it's not like the player skill is only scaled of stats, there's the actual knowledge of game mechanics involved.

    Progression is there, despite level scaling.

  • Fuxo
    Fuxo
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    Overland zones scaling is ideal for freedom of exploration that is actually expected in a TES game. Veteran level content is another topic. It's mostly dungeons and trials at the moment, but ZOS could turn all daedric planes into higher difficulty content.
  • PurpleDrank
    PurpleDrank
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    I love that a wolf is a wolf no matter where you go. One thing that has annoyed me for years in other games is that a wolf is really weak in one region and super strong in another. I also like that my character's strength is measured by how much they know (unlocked skills etc.) and what gear they've accumulated, because it feels more immersive for me. Though I would like it if they got rid of gear levels (which feel weird to me).
  • Ghettokid
    Ghettokid
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    No, it was a bad idea.
    Bad. Not just my opinion, but a fact.
  • RaddlemanNumber7
    RaddlemanNumber7
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    The only thing I lost was the challenge of soloing world bosses way above my level. But they changed world bosses, so I would have lost that anyway.

    Everything else I got from Level Scaling was good. Not out-levelling content. Able to go back into low level zones and not totally out-gun everything. Able to harvest max-level nodes in any zone. Able to farm top level gear sets in every zone. The list of good things just goes on and on.


    PC EU
  • NewBlacksmurf
    NewBlacksmurf
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    It was/is great the issues come in where dlc was added...that content should’ve been higher like level 30 or so.

    That’s level 30 for dungeons and access. Morrowind should not be accessible until completing the main story
    Edited by NewBlacksmurf on October 8, 2017 12:36PM
    -PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
    ~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *501
  • IcyDeadPeople
    IcyDeadPeople
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    Very good idea. Prior to this, 99% of the zones were way too easy and provided zero loot. The kind of linear progression railroading you into visiting zones in a certain order felt like a waste of this massive world map. And it discouraged Elder Scrolls style open world exploration.

    Now they are still easy, but not as bad as it was before, and they did a pretty damn good job of adjusting it so lower level players get scaled up appropriately in dungeons. Have completed many 4-man dungeons and even some trials with mix of lowbie players. You can complete the content, but you feel stronger after you finally unlock the passives and endgame sets.

    Also, it's good that now the level scaling encourages lowbies to actually craft or buy gear every so often. Back i the day I just rocked the same level 4 willow's path all the way to V10 in cracked wood cave.



    Edited by IcyDeadPeople on October 8, 2017 1:13PM
  • RGFors
    RGFors
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    One thing I didn’t like pre one Tamriel was out-leveling a zone. Now that is no longer a thing.
  • strikeback1247
    strikeback1247
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    Ghettokid wrote: »
    Bad. Not just my opinion, but a fact.

    Looks like someone doesn't know how facts work. If you claim something to be 'factual', at least try to present an argument.
    P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!
  • Nord_Templar
    Nord_Templar
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    No, it was a bad idea.
    I think that there are too many commentaries that aim to make the game even worse. What for? To make a lot of powerful gamers out of the game. To make it easier to play.
    Perhaps the wrecking of competitors-game manufacturers.
    And also, probably, there are those who want to make this firm bankrupt, then to buy it at a cheap price.
  • Shardan4968
    Shardan4968
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    This idea was awesome and game is much better with it, simply because it gives player freedom and don't force him to grind, grind, grind, grind and grind to make progress in storyline. You can have 50 level and play with your love/friend on the same location with same difficulty. Many people wouldn't even touch this game If not level scaling. And bots are not reason to resign from better game.
    PC/EU
  • Iluvrien
    Iluvrien
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    No, it was a bad idea.
    Bad. I think there should have been multiple tiers of level requirements available in a single zone. The zones wouldn't get boring and you would still have a reason to come back to them later on in your gaming career.

    The idea that a mudcrab on a beach in Bal Foyen is just as much of a challenge at CP160 as it is at L4 isn't just odd, it's insane. The world loses all sense of verisimilitude.
  • IcyDeadPeople
    IcyDeadPeople
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    Iluvrien wrote: »
    The idea that a mudcrab on a beach in Bal Foyen is just as much of a challenge at CP160 as it is at L4 isn't just odd, it's insane. The world loses all sense of verisimilitude.

    Let me introduce you to my little friend the VR5 mudcrab from launch.


    Edited by IcyDeadPeople on October 8, 2017 2:03PM
  • Zolron
    Zolron
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    It definitely adds replayabilty. Only thing I wished they added another higher level phase where say all mobs are CP 300 or so. Even make it optional
  • subtlezeroub17_ESO
    subtlezeroub17_ESO
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    Yes and no. On one hand, you could easily out level and farm world bosses and other pve content that's supposed to present a modicum of challenge before level scaling. On the other hand, the content still remains easy barring world bosses and now there's really no traditional MMORPG feel of accomplishment.
  • The_Protagonist
    The_Protagonist
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    Other(please explain).
    Just like maelstrom arena, they should have a toggle for PvE difficulty overland as well, so that we can have a go at old content and find a new challenge, the higher difficulty would also warrant better reward system.

    Current me as a casual player going towards serious can literally kill overland mobs in less than 2 seconds.

    The scaling needs to be revised a little bit in my opinion, but not removed, it's a very unique aspect of this game and I like it.
  • Rainraven
    Rainraven
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    Bot trains, 15 level people farming BiS stuff around, more and more endgame players quitting ESO each day...

    None of that is the fault of level scaling.

    People have short memories. Huge chunks of the map were empty before 1T, there was no reason to be there. We outleveled content way too fast. Playing with friends who had lower-level alts sucked; playing with friends on other factions wasn't even possible.

    This is hundred times better. It's the best thing they've ever done.
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    Yes, it was a good idea.
    I love two things in particular about the level scaling.

    First, I can do the DLC content at any time and in any order, without worrying about being over-leveled when I return to the base game content.

    Second, I get level-appropriate rewards and materials along with xp when running through earlier overland zones.
  • idk
    idk
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    I seriously doubt any player that was not already about to leave has left due to battle leveling the game. It does not make sense. If how the leveled a character changed and they are leaving for that then good for them. Seems really narrow minded, but heck, each to themselves.

    Players leave MMOs every day regardless. It is nothing new. The battle leveling would be the most lame reason to leave ESO. It is really so much better for leveling up a character since quests never become worthless for their XP.
    Edited by idk on October 8, 2017 2:59PM
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