Discrimination

PrimordialOdd · October 2017

I’m here today to address an issue for those who are deaf, have broken English or can’t speak English, those who are mute and those who don’t have mic capability really. To start, I’m legally deaf but I’m able to hear to some extent. But if there’s a lot of chatter, then they become jumbled noises to me and I can’t make it out but hear. So with that said, I for the most part always had made sure it’s known I’m deaf when I’m tanking either dungeons or trials be they vet or normal, etc. I never had a issue really, til today, with communication and working well with the group as a tank. I always asked someone a question and got answered via text chat but today I had my own guildmate discriminate me by disavowing text chat in our raiding group, allowing only me yet.. it now defeats the purpose of me needing any questions answered or role recap/mechanism when nobody replies now but I hear mic chatter going off. When I ask again, I get a vague is response and just pull- which I then go off winging it doing what I read up on with mechanics and all that. Most part I had responses before this, running trials and dungeons flawlessly. This though today? Total bull, discriminating too. I’m not asking anything done with mic’s but I do ask that for those who are anti-text, to least explain your respective roles simply. Be willing to work with your group, that’s why it’s called a group- teamwork, there’s no ‘I’ in team. I could go off on this but I still am willing to work with everyone as always. However, ZoS... Would it be too much to ask for hotkeys for PS4 users to input commands (text, such as in trials nSO ‘popcorn is coming, block’ etc) using say by holding either R2/L2 down respectively and clicking either the directional buttons or the ‘shapes’ buttons (x,o,[],^) they could hold up to 8 commands that can be done quick and easy in battle for easy commutation. I ask this on behalf of those like myself, who can successfully play ESO properly with everyone else too mic-less. It’s really infuriating to be rejected because I’m deaf and unable to be in mic- but the joy in my face proving them I’m a decent tank is pleasurable

I digress, this needs addressing please, it’s unfair legit and straight up discriminating. With a side note on text chat- could we pleaseeeeeee get our guild chats colored so it’s not all 5 different guilds text chatting going off in all 1 color. It’s impossible to read efficiently. Sighs, I hope others sharing my plight or their ‘voices’ out there too.

starkerealm · October 2017

PrimordialOdd wrote: »

With a side note on text chat- could we pleaseeeeeee get our guild chats colored so it’s not all 5 different guilds text chatting going off in all 1 color. It’s impossible to read efficiently. Sighs, I hope others sharing my plight or their ‘voices’ out there too.

Not sure about consoles, but on PC, you can change the color of any chat channel to whatever you want. So you can color code your guilds to your preference. It's per character, so you either need to adjust it for each character, or get an addon to adjust them all together, but still, it's there in the social options.

PrimordialOdd · October 2017

I’m aware PC has them, of course they would I’d be astounded if they didn’t. It’s consoles I referred to if you read, with hotfix notes I mention

starkerealm wrote: »

PrimordialOdd wrote: »

With a side note on text chat- could we pleaseeeeeee get our guild chats colored so it’s not all 5 different guilds text chatting going off in all 1 color. It’s impossible to read efficiently. Sighs, I hope others sharing my plight or their ‘voices’ out there too.

Not sure about consoles, but on PC, you can change the color of any chat channel to whatever you want. So you can color code your guilds to your preference. It's per character, so you either need to adjust it for each character, or get an addon to adjust them all together, but still, it's there in the social options.

Ratzkifal · October 2017

Sounds like you would have a much better time playing on PC. You have coloured guild chats there (not sure why that isn't a thing on PS4), people use the chat more and even if they use voice coms, you still have time to tell them that you are deaf beforehand (since they have to get into one call first, which gives you enough time in chat).
Even though I technically side with you here and that games should be as barrier free as possible without hurting the game experience, I doubt that something will be done on the issue any time soon, since consoles have been secondary in development since forever. To get anything done there, Zenimax needs approval of both Microsoft and Sony before they can publish updates there (might not apply to all updates, idk), which delays the whole process.
Let's hope this issue gets addressed and perhaps some others as well.

Edit: Damn, Starkrealm was faster!

Slick_007 · October 2017

are paragraphs limited to those you are complaining about? because i didnt read that past the first line.

MehrunesFlagon · October 2017

PrimordialOdd wrote: »

I’m here today to address an issue for those who are deaf, have broken English or can’t speak English, those who are mute and those who don’t have mic capability really. To start, I’m legally deaf but I’m able to hear to some extent. But if there’s a lot of chatter, then they become jumbled noises to me and I can’t make it out but hear. So with that said, I for the most part always had made sure it’s known I’m deaf when I’m tanking either dungeons or trials be they vet or normal, etc. I never had a issue really, til today, with communication and working well with the group as a tank. I always asked someone a question and got answered via text chat but today I had my own guildmate discriminate me by disavowing text chat in our raiding group, allowing only me yet.. it now defeats the purpose of me needing any questions answered or role recap/mechanism when nobody replies now but I hear mic chatter going off. When I ask again, I get a vague is response and just pull- which I then go off winging it doing what I read up on with mechanics and all that. Most part I had responses before this, running trials and dungeons flawlessly. This though today? Total bull, discriminating too. I’m not asking anything done with mic’s but I do ask that for those who are anti-text, to least explain your respective roles simply. Be willing to work with your group, that’s why it’s called a group- teamwork, there’s no ‘I’ in team. I could go off on this but I still am willing to work with everyone as always. However, ZoS... Would it be too much to ask for hotkeys for PS4 users to input commands (text, such as in trials nSO ‘popcorn is coming, block’ etc) using say by holding either R2/L2 down respectively and clicking either the directional buttons or the ‘shapes’ buttons (x,o,[],^) they could hold up to 8 commands that can be done quick and easy in battle for easy commutation. I ask this on behalf of those like myself, who can successfully play ESO properly with everyone else too mic-less. It’s really infuriating to be rejected because I’m deaf and unable to be in mic- but the joy in my face proving them I’m a decent tank is pleasurable I digress, this needs addressing please, it’s unfair legit and straight up discriminating. With a side note on text chat- could we pleaseeeeeee get our guild chats colored so it’s not all 5 different guilds text chatting going off in all 1 color. It’s impossible to read efficiently. Sighs, I hope others sharing my plight or their ‘voices’ out there too.

you would probably like it better on pc. we have an addon that does just that.well atleast asfar as calling out alot of important mechanics.On the other hand with the way some type you could very well end up with a group wipe if too many are trying to type during hard mechanics.I could also see incorrect commands being input.

think it would be ultimately best for both if a voice to text option were available.

idk · October 2017

First, there really is not much that can be done by much of the ill player behavior in the game. Fortunately they do not seem to be the majority.

Second, it is always best to group with guild mates, after finding a good guild for you of course and they do exist. If you notice the regular threads by players who seem to be challenged themselves with playing the game it becomes clear random grouping can, and likely eventually will, pair one with a person who is equally challenged with playing the game as they are with player interaction. Many blame their own need to improve upon those with lower CP and such because they need someone to carry them through dungeons.

It is not much of a stretch that those poor wretched souls would cause grief for you. It is best just to move on from them and understand there is a reason they are unable to form a group with decent players and require the GF to get into a dungeon.

MLGProPlayer · October 2017

We have no way to use voice chat on PC with PUGs, and nobody types anything. There is absolutely no reason to communicate for any content in this game other than vet trials and vet DLC dungeons (and even then, if you've done them a bunch of times, you really don't need to communicate). Some people are *** and make a fuss over the most menial ***.

jcaceresw · October 2017

I am also mostly deaf and even when I communicate this to guild people or random people on pledges or PVP raids they became somewhat distant or even kick me in the spot because I would not be able to hear their "orders" through Discord or any other voice software.

I already have reported those behaviors several times using the reporting UI but looks like I am doomed to not be able to play a good chunk of game content because of my deafness and that the missing content requires group effort that are not willing to group by with someone of my condition because I may ruin their perfect runs (on pledges) or not "following" their orders (on PVP and trials).

Riejael · October 2017

Ironically, the PCMR is very accommodating of those with disabilities it seems.

On PC its very common for groups and guilds to do content without speaking a word in a voice chat. Its all done via text for the most part and like others have said, you can color the text to anything you want. This is without using addons as well.

Personally I think the issue is with console companies. They don't allow Mouse and Keyboard setups if the game 'locks' them. I believe a few noobs in a FPS getting wrecked by M/KB is worth being inclusive of those with disabilities (especially if it those with disabilities doing the wrecking).

Chronicburn · October 2017

Sounds like your guildmate pulled a *** move... maybe you should talk it out with your guild

Tasear · October 2017

Make it flashy let rest of your guild mates know then press leave guild and go off to see the butterflies

akl77 · October 2017

I usually just lean mechanics from utube guides, there are plenty and very detailed explaining of the mechanics, most people don’t even know.
And about discrimination, it’s not just the deaf, and nationality that doesn’t speak English or read, they get all sorts of discriminations constantly.

D0PAMINE · October 2017

If you ever switch to PC, add me. We'll do any content you want.

templesus · October 2017

Uhhhhh you and I have very different definitions of the word discrimination...

sabretalon · October 2017

Not a solution for stopping other but...

What about starting your own guild for people with similar issues?

Some things may not be as quick when you have to type in but a cheap Bluetooth keyboard for the PS4 makes it easier to type.

If you are setting up your own then you can set your own rules. Even if people join who do not have the same issue, they know the rules.

I get no response via text or voice chat from either guild I'm in. I stay at the moment as it helps to off load my stuff.

As I say it may not remove the issue but you could set the standards yourself?

tplink3r1 · October 2017

The reason why some people think everyone should be treated equally despite their differences/problems is beyond me. There is nothing ZOS can do about it and you should adapt and get used to the idea that people won't treat you the same as they treat others. Discrimination is something everyone uses and will ever use.

PrimordialOdd · October 2017

After reading this in full so far, i understand PC’s better and if I could I would but alas I’m a console player. Those whose share similar plights, nothing will change if you don’t speak out. I’m happy to see a few but the same time I’m not surprised to see some who just like to butt heads ha. Discrimination though is on point, there is thousands of types more than countless times. I’m quite aware of it, but unlike those who chooses to sit back doing nothing about it or those who just rather ride around on their high horses.. you set every human beings out there back, yourself included. My point with shunning those who are not able to simply use mic- is indeed discriminating. Look your local law library up like myself. ZoS further supports it by not providing voice to text as someone mentioned and instead just focuses on crown stores goodies to steal from people instead of trying to make improvements and performance updates. I love ESO don’t get me wrong but even Skyrim and the old morrowind was fantastic with its bugs and all even too

Runschei · October 2017

If you ever choose to switch to PC I will gladly run trials, dungeons and pvp with you. I actually prefer the ingame textchat over Discord/Teamspeak because I see myself as quite the multitasker and I really don't mind writing a lot in the chat

Ohtimbar · October 2017

tplink3r1 wrote: »

The reason why some people think everyone should be treated equally despite their
differences/problems is beyond me.

Seriously? It's beyond you why people should be treated equally? What an absurd, callous thing to say.

Slick_007 · October 2017

people should be treated differently because everyone is different. that doesnt mean treated with disrespect. my mother currently has her foot in plaster. Do you think people are more or less likely to open a door for her than for someone who is able to move perfectly fine? yes, people do. They treat her differently because of her foot.

there is nothing wrong with being treated differently. There is only something wrong with being treated disrespectfully.

Osteos · October 2017

Was the guildmate the GM of the guild? I would suggest that you speak to the GM about removing the no text policy. If they are unwilling to do that then it may be best for you to find a different guild.

lagrue · October 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

PrimordialOdd wrote: »

With a side note on text chat- could we pleaseeeeeee get our guild chats colored so it’s not all 5 different guilds text chatting going off in all 1 color. It’s impossible to read efficiently. Sighs, I hope others sharing my plight or their ‘voices’ out there too.

Not sure about consoles, but on PC, you can change the color of any chat channel to whatever you want. So you can color code your guilds to your preference. It's per character, so you either need to adjust it for each character, or get an addon to adjust them all together, but still, it's there in the social options.

This is on consoles as well

Hopefully it helps OP. I come from a family with quite a few deaf individuals and I certainly understand how frustrated they get when communication is hampered.

tplink3r1 · October 2017

Ohtimbar wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

The reason why some people think everyone should be treated equally despite their
differences/problems is beyond me.

Seriously? It's beyond you why people should be treated equally? What an absurd, callous thing to say.

Really? Do you treat someone with down syndrome the same as you treat anyone else? Would you hire someone to be a surgeon if the person in question has no hands?

D0PAMINE · October 2017

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

The reason why some people think everyone should be treated equally despite their
differences/problems is beyond me.

Seriously? It's beyond you why people should be treated equally? What an absurd, callous thing to say.

Really? Do you treat someone with down syndrome the same as you treat anyone else? Would you hire someone to be a surgeon if the person in question has no hands?

Weak argument. Down syndrom and a surgeon with no hands? Grow up. Clown

lagrue · October 2017

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

The reason why some people think everyone should be treated equally despite their
differences/problems is beyond me.

Seriously? It's beyond you why people should be treated equally? What an absurd, callous thing to say.

Really? Do you treat someone with down syndrome the same as you treat anyone else? Would you hire someone to be a surgeon if the person in question has no hands?

Do you oppose wheelchair access to buildings too? You strike me as a real winner....

Somebody with no hands doing surgery - that's an absolute limitation, you can't provide them accessibility, that's a sad reality.

Somebody who is deaf wanting more solid ways of communication is not by any means an absolutely limiting factor... a simple change can fix it all. The fact you think it's a problem somebody else wants access is what's beyond me.

I find your argument quite sad because it all boils down to comparing accessibility to special treatment.

Zbigb4life · October 2017

tplink3r1 wrote: »

The reason why some people think everyone should be treated equally despite their differences/problems is beyond me. There is nothing ZOS can do about it and you should adapt and get used to the idea that people won't treat you the same as they treat others. Discrimination is something everyone uses and will ever use.

I vote NO to adapt to discrimination! How would you justify that people should accept that they are discriminated?

witchdoctor · October 2017

lagrue wrote: »

The fact you think it's a problem somebody else wants access is what's beyond me.

Probably also complains that they have to attend discrimination/EO training at work.

Saturnana · October 2017

My heart goes out to the OP for having to deal with these problems, but sadly there's very little to be done about it I think. Guilds are user-made informal gatherings of like-minded players that pretty much make up their own rules and regulations (as long as they don't break ToS).. Its not mandatory for them to help out a player with a disability in any way, though not doing so would defeat the entire purpose of a guild tbh. They're total jerks for not considering OP's needs, especially since it's not a lot of trouble to give some pointers in chat before a fight, but sadly being a jerk is not against ToS.

Best advice I've read in previous posts is leaving the guild if this issue cannot be addressed - or if it isn't resolved next time you want to join a run - and find a guild that does suit your needs!

I see you're on PS4, maybe check out those guild forums to see if one fits you? Would've directed you towards a great guild I'm in, but it's PC unfortunately.

tplink3r1 · October 2017

D0PAMINE wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

The reason why some people think everyone should be treated equally despite their
differences/problems is beyond me.

Seriously? It's beyond you why people should be treated equally? What an absurd, callous thing to say.

Really? Do you treat someone with down syndrome the same as you treat anyone else? Would you hire someone to be a surgeon if the person in question has no hands?

Weak argument. Down syndrom and a surgeon with no hands? Grow up. Clown

Not an argument.

tplink3r1 · October 2017

Zbigb4life wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

The reason why some people think everyone should be treated equally despite their differences/problems is beyond me. There is nothing ZOS can do about it and you should adapt and get used to the idea that people won't treat you the same as they treat others. Discrimination is something everyone uses and will ever use.

I vote NO to adapt to discrimination! How would you justify that people should accept that they are discriminated?

I already did.