Bounty hunters

nnargun · October 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Solution. Murder that was seen by others should be 10k flat. Every consecutive one would net you exponentially more bounty, until you are unable to play that char outside PvP for a irl decade or so. Also, remove motif/recipes from non hostile NPCs. Or make blade of woe have a timer (5 minutes or so). And make non hostile NPC health 100k.

That's how.

Maybe I overreacted a bit there though and I apologize for saying you should play Tetris.

The immersion point is valid I guess and that's why I totally support the idea of being able to report to NPC guards.

So, for my immersions, my green pact bosmer can /callgreen on anybody i see harvest columbine and other such plants and channel in numbers of unkillable bosmer floral avengers to stop the crime?

So, for my immersions, my vampire can /callfiends on anybody i see killing bloodfiends or vamps and channel in numbers of unkillable vampire bloodletters to stop the crime (and at the same time have a light brunch?)

So, for my immersions, my Dunmer can /callslavers on anybody i see helping slaves in morrowind and channel in unkillable slaver guards to stop the crime and gain a new commodity for sale?

So for my immersions, My Dominion character can /calldoms when i see characters killing AD landing parties and channel unkillable AD soldiers to...

"Within the world" there are tons of "crimes" defined by different groups, factions, areas, cirsumstances etc.

All the PVE play is based on understood degrees of threat and consequence. PVE is more puzzle-solving than competitive combat, and what you are suggesting is letting bystanders move the pieces around in other folks playing a game.

Allowing players to at will "raise the ante" and effectively interfere with other folks PVE casual/questing because their "immersion" is sensitive opens the world up to wanton "screwing with other players as they try to play" opportunities.

**Do not let my PVE difficulty be determined by whether or not the other players around it want it to be harder for me or not.**

That is such an incredibly bad idea it is just unfathomable - it is building in griefing PVE players as a sub-system.

Yeah well thanks for showing us how ridiculous the idea was by claiming ridiculous things yourself. Obviously there are limits to immersion in favor for gameplay.
This nice little idea, however, would add some excitement for both sides I think. Do you really think it'd brake the game for people if they had to watch out not to be seen by another player when backstabbing someone? And even if you got caught you'd just have to run away from some guards.

Gilvoth · October 2017

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Join us, you know you want to.

this ^

iiYuki · October 2017

Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters. They will can complain about crime (assign bounty), call the guards and even kill or arrest and put in jail and get bounty for himself.
Player interaction with criminals won't be a thing, one because it would completely destroy the sneak system considering how many players can be in an area you would never be hidden.
The other would be people camping outlaw guild entrances and just nuking people in a group to get rewards of some kind otherwise noone would do it and the bounty hunting would be a pointless activity outside "trolling".

" At last this game is for childrens, what they may study from that? I have an idea."
This game is rated M17+ or 18+, so i'm afraid if your under that age it's your problem or more importantly your parent/guardian who bought it thems fault (since lying about your age to purchase the game yourself is against the TOS and can constitute a ban of your account), for allowing them to be playing and consuming media deemed unsuitable for their age.

STEVIL · October 2017

nnargun wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Solution. Murder that was seen by others should be 10k flat. Every consecutive one would net you exponentially more bounty, until you are unable to play that char outside PvP for a irl decade or so. Also, remove motif/recipes from non hostile NPCs. Or make blade of woe have a timer (5 minutes or so). And make non hostile NPC health 100k.

That's how.

Maybe I overreacted a bit there though and I apologize for saying you should play Tetris.

The immersion point is valid I guess and that's why I totally support the idea of being able to report to NPC guards.

So, for my immersions, my green pact bosmer can /callgreen on anybody i see harvest columbine and other such plants and channel in numbers of unkillable bosmer floral avengers to stop the crime?

So, for my immersions, my vampire can /callfiends on anybody i see killing bloodfiends or vamps and channel in numbers of unkillable vampire bloodletters to stop the crime (and at the same time have a light brunch?)

So, for my immersions, my Dunmer can /callslavers on anybody i see helping slaves in morrowind and channel in unkillable slaver guards to stop the crime and gain a new commodity for sale?

So for my immersions, My Dominion character can /calldoms when i see characters killing AD landing parties and channel unkillable AD soldiers to...

"Within the world" there are tons of "crimes" defined by different groups, factions, areas, cirsumstances etc.

All the PVE play is based on understood degrees of threat and consequence. PVE is more puzzle-solving than competitive combat, and what you are suggesting is letting bystanders move the pieces around in other folks playing a game.

Allowing players to at will "raise the ante" and effectively interfere with other folks PVE casual/questing because their "immersion" is sensitive opens the world up to wanton "screwing with other players as they try to play" opportunities.

**Do not let my PVE difficulty be determined by whether or not the other players around it want it to be harder for me or not.**

That is such an incredibly bad idea it is just unfathomable - it is building in griefing PVE players as a sub-system.

Yeah well thanks for showing us how ridiculous the idea was by claiming ridiculous things yourself. Obviously there are limits to immersion in favor for gameplay.
This nice little idea, however, would add some excitement for both sides I think. Do you really think it'd brake the game for people if they had to watch out not to be seen by another player when backstabbing someone? And even if you got caught you'd just have to run away from some guards.

Ok so just curious, why is it MORE ridiculous to send bosmer green pact after harvesting plants (iirc there are not one single dlc where harvesting plants is a major element of the main quests) but being able to much with both Tg and Db quests is less ridiculous?

oooh right, one you want the other you dont.

got it.

YES it would break things, specifically the PBE injustice content.

Again, pay attention, do you think guards walkabout and routes were raqndomly chosen? Do you think the placement of items was randomly done for PVE injustice content and quests? Do you honeslty believe these were accidental?

They were not any more than the number of bad guys spawning in a delve boss fight or a trial final bos was.

Now, lets go to trials and allow an infinite number of observers to send out "add summons" to throw additional forces at will into the mix for that trial boss fight?

So, what we have is two basic excuses for why getting to PVP the PVE players is right other than the "but i want it"...

immersions - cuz its a crime in game" and that runs into lots of lots of lots of other things that are also "crimes" to different groups in different areas and the net result is that excuse for PVPing on PVE players is more ubiquitous than condoms in a brothel. there is nothing unique about the injustice pve content itself which says "pvp or griefing will make this more fun".

Challenge - usually its the guards too easy - but guess what - its as easy or not as the rest of the main casual overland repeatable PVE content and payouy is not greater than most. So, again, nothing uniquely saying ""this piece of PVE would be better with PVP or griefing added."

nnargun · October 2017

iiYuki wrote: »

Player interaction with criminals won't be a thing, one because it would completely destroy the sneak system considering how many players can be in an area you would never be hidden.

I agree with everything you say (plus honestly guys, do you wanna be lawyers in a game?) exept this. It makes sense that you cannot just murder people in crowded places like Mournhold market place but there are still plenty of places where you could. Here and there the game would have to be designed defferently though.

I_killed_Vivec · October 2017

If we are talking "immersion", then if someone witnesses me perform a kill I expect them to recognize a professional, realize what's good for them and turn a blind eye.

After all, I'm the uber-assassin, I wield the Blade of Woe - instant one hit guaranteed death. They wouldn't want to be next...

So yes, call the cops if you want, milk-drinker, but when he arrives he might find me standing next to a dead body asking "What kept you? I had to deal with the n'wah myself".

You see, to my mind the thing that's wrong with Justice in the game is that if you kill all the witnesses your bounty should disappear

nnargun · October 2017

Lol. That was nice. I'm convinced.

@STEVIL
It's been mentioned several times that the game would need changes of course. All those things you mention are pretty clear to everybody here I suppose. And yes, maybe (or even probably) it wouldn't work. Noone's saying "implement it, now. Don't think about it".

Edit: btw being able to call an npc guard is the utmost I'd give to the justice guys. Would never go further than that. I can see though that it would require too much to be doable.

nnargun · October 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

immersions - cuz its a crime in game" and that runs into lots of lots of lots of other things that are also "crimes" to different groups in different areas and the net result is that excuse for PVPing on PVE players is more ubiquitous than condoms in a brothel. there is nothing unique about the injustice pve content itself which says "pvp or griefing will make this more fun".

Don't think it's a valid argument to say you can't ask for more immersive game design here and there just because there are lots of other non immersive things in the game. I don't really care about the murders myself and I will also participate to get gold or whatever if it's efficient. But I can totally see how this is quite an obvious flaw for many. Not saying other things aren't flawed though.

BrightOblivion · October 2017

nnargun wrote: »

Lol. That was nice. I'm convinced.

@STEVIL
It's been mentioned several times that the game would need changes of course. All those things you mention are pretty clear to everybody here I suppose. And yes, maybe (or even probably) it wouldn't work. Noone's saying "implement it, now. Don't think about it".

Edit: btw being able to call an npc guard is the utmost I'd give to the justice guys. Would never go further than that. I can see though that it would require too much to be doable.

Except I'm perfectly fine with the game how it is. Are the corpses a little unsightly? Yeah, kinda. But they'll be cleaned up in a bit. Maybe ZOS should make it so they despawn faster.

However, I'm perfectly content going around and pickpocketing people and looting things. From filling up my 130 spaces for selling things to the fence, just by traipsing in every building in Mournhold and pickpocketing everyone I could (dip, dip, stab when possible), I made about 16k. That's just by keeping greens and blues.

And you're proposing to let other players actively hinder that because "Wah, dead bodies on the floor"? Please excuse the disrespect, but are you freaking kidding me? In what daedric plain would anyone actually go along with that?

Guards are positioned in places where they'll still catch you if you aren't paying attention, and you can lose everything you stole by stepping in the wrong room or failing to properly manage your stamina. If I get past them, though, I've earned my freaking loot, and the last thing I want is some busybody player getting their jollies by either siccing guards on me or attacking me themselves.

There are achievements for picking pockets, breaking into houses, opening safeboxes, and even killing livestock. This is a game with those aspects baked in. Kindly, leave them be.

Or, in case my opinion isn't clear enough...

No. No! One thousand, thousand times NO!

nnargun · October 2017

Haha. Whatever I don't really care. Personally I'd find it hilarious to report you to a guard to see you get whipped by the ***. I'll also fill my pockets with stolen stuff though and backstab my way through Tamriel if it helps me proceed, or for fun. I just like to take sides in an argument.

PlagueSD · October 2017

splarv wrote: »

I stayed at the craft station in Vivec city and my thoughts about crafting were constantly interrupted by gurgle sounds of cutting throat. Why do I do nothing when I see how a murder kills innocent women and men? At last this game is for childrens, what they may study from that? I have an idea.
The PvP activities are pearls of the end game and TESO already can afford some: duels, the big war in Cyrodiil, fightings of small groups in the battlegrounds. What about war with criminals in the “safe cities” to protect innocent NPC’s?
There are two criminal guilds already: thieves and assassins. Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters. They will can complain about crime (assign bounty), call the guards and even kill or arrest and put in jail and get bounty for himself. And this guild must be mutually exclusive to the thieves and assassins (like werewolves and vampire). You can be only a bounty hunter or a criminal (thief and assassin).

What part of this makes you think this game is for children?? (From https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/home)

Enslaved · October 2017

PlagueSD wrote: »

splarv wrote: »

I stayed at the craft station in Vivec city and my thoughts about crafting were constantly interrupted by gurgle sounds of cutting throat. Why do I do nothing when I see how a murder kills innocent women and men? At last this game is for childrens, what they may study from that? I have an idea.
The PvP activities are pearls of the end game and TESO already can afford some: duels, the big war in Cyrodiil, fightings of small groups in the battlegrounds. What about war with criminals in the “safe cities” to protect innocent NPC’s?
There are two criminal guilds already: thieves and assassins. Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters. They will can complain about crime (assign bounty), call the guards and even kill or arrest and put in jail and get bounty for himself. And this guild must be mutually exclusive to the thieves and assassins (like werewolves and vampire). You can be only a bounty hunter or a criminal (thief and assassin).

What part of this makes you think this game is for children?? (From https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/home)

Tbh, about sexual themes... A light talk with Naryu, few bosmer/breton [snip], one bdsm example in entire game, and khajiit bringing a dead skeever to Dunmer enchantress in CH is not what I would call sexual themes.
And if I shared few drinks with Lyris, some random Nords and got drunk once in a random dungeon in Rift is not really drinking action worth mentioning.

[Edited for inappropriate content]

STEVIL · October 2017

nnargun wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

immersions - cuz its a crime in game" and that runs into lots of lots of lots of other things that are also "crimes" to different groups in different areas and the net result is that excuse for PVPing on PVE players is more ubiquitous than condoms in a brothel. there is nothing unique about the injustice pve content itself which says "pvp or griefing will make this more fun".

Don't think it's a valid argument to say you can't ask for more immersive game design here and there just because there are lots of other non immersive things in the game. I don't really care about the murders myself and I will also participate to get gold or whatever if it's efficient. But I can totally see how this is quite an obvious flaw for many. Not saying other things aren't flawed though.

But, these are not "other non-immersive things" just different flavors of the same non-immersive thing. the principle itself is flawed - adding PVP or geriefing for certain PVE activities cuz some folks dont like the "morality" of it - in a game where a very very large percent of the content in PVE can be seen as questionable morailty from views within the game.

the other such notion - that PVO makes PVE more fun - is oft stated as if its a truth and not just a preference but has no solid foundation to stand on at all in a game where they go to large pains to prevent that cross-over. for the most part.

taking an already existing PVE block of content and two full DLCs and throwing PVP on top of them is a bad bad idea.

PVP takeover of existing and in some cases paid-for PVE content is a bad idea.

Want to add new content for a PVP injustice thing - whole different story. Like i said, there are lots of "allied theft and bounty" options for cyrodil.

.

Deheart · October 2017

Wasn't all this already planned until they quit working on the justice system and left it half finished?

TheShadowScout · October 2017

splarv wrote: »

...There are two criminal guilds already: thieves and assassins. Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters...

Had that idea once upon a time... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/306759/additional-guild-ideas
Just for NPC criminals due to the powers that be deciding not to implement the PvP part of the justice system, in hopes they might at some time change their minds and expand the enforcers guild I suggested to PC criminals as well... it'd be cool!

Kamatsu · October 2017

Deheart wrote: »

Wasn't all this already planned until they quit working on the justice system and left it half finished?

Yes, they were looking at adding in a 'player guard' PvP type system or such to the justice system, but scrapped it due to the many, many issue's with it they couldn't resolve. Issue's such as how to make sure it couldn't be exploited as a gold generator, how to ensure people weren't using it just to grief other players, what to do about making it either fully forced or with an opt-in/out system... and if it had an opt-in/out system how many ppl would actually stay opted in.

In the end they decided they couldn't ensure the system was fun, not exploitable, couldn't be used to grief other players, wouldn't negatively effect paid-for DLC, and that given the choice most ppl would opt-out of it anyways. So because of the nightmare it would be and cause, they scrapped it as something not worth the time & cost to implement.

But time and time again someone comes and suggest's this, and it's usually the same circle of ppl. And it's always about forced PvP on PvE activities... and usually always about 'immersion'. What it's really about is bored ppl who want to be able to grief other players, as in the end... that's what it amounts to - a small # of ppl asking for a system to be implemented that would allow them to PvP grief PvE players doing a PvE activity.

And whenever it's brought up that the system should be 100% opt-in... they are dead against it, because they know only a small % of ppl will actually opt-in.... and these will not be the easy gank kills they are after, as the ppl who would opt-in will be those who are interested in PvP... and what they want is to PvP people who have no interest in pvp, no skill in pvp, whose builds are geared towards PvE and not PvP... why? Cuz these PvE players are easy kills to experienced PvP players using PvP builds.

VaranisArano · October 2017

Kamatsu wrote: »

And whenever it's brought up that the system should be 100% opt-in... they are dead against it, because they know only a small % of ppl will actually opt-in.... and these will not be the easy gank kills they are after, as the ppl who would opt-in will be those who are interested in PvP... and what they want is to PvP people who have no interest in pvp, no skill in pvp, whose builds are geared towards PvE and not PvP... why? Cuz these PvE players are easy kills to experienced PvP players using PvP builds.

This, exactly. I'd happily take a penalty to my sneak and pickpocket chances in order to run an "anti-ganker" build on my Dark Brotherhood Silencer. Or even a ganker build, since I should totally get the option to get the drop on these people hunting me. But then, I'm comfortable with PVP. From what I see in the response to Imperial City, the majority of players don't want PVP in their PVE.

But no, that's not what these folks want. Seriously, if you want to gank people who are just trying to complete PvE content, go hang out in Bruma, Cheydinhal, Chorrol, Vlastarus, Cropsford, and Cyrodiil delves. Or go to the Imperial City and you can even steal their Tel Var stones.

nnargun · October 2017

The whole bounty/gank topic kinda had been off the table in this thread though. I think most people realize the many issues it would cause.

Flynch · October 2017

nnargun wrote: »

The whole bounty/gank topic kinda had been off the table in this thread though. I think most people realize the many issues it would cause.

Apparently there is no grey area between "everyone should die and everyone should kill everyone, like, all the time" and "here's a more realistic response to murder, that if was in at launch, would be fairly accepted" but hey, forums right...

Osteos · October 2017

I do think there needs to be stronger punishments for murdering in plain sight. Higher bounties and merchants/bankers refusing to interact with you until you clear your bounty.

NordSwordnBoard · October 2017

The name of the Lawyer's Guild must be named "The Bar Association" for proper immersion.