Bounty hunters

splarv · September 2017

I stayed at the craft station in Vivec city and my thoughts about crafting were constantly interrupted by gurgle sounds of cutting throat. Why do I do nothing when I see how a murder kills innocent women and men? At last this game is for childrens, what they may study from that? I have an idea.
The PvP activities are pearls of the end game and TESO already can afford some: duels, the big war in Cyrodiil, fightings of small groups in the battlegrounds. What about war with criminals in the “safe cities” to protect innocent NPC’s?
There are two criminal guilds already: thieves and assassins. Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters. They will can complain about crime (assign bounty), call the guards and even kill or arrest and put in jail and get bounty for himself. And this guild must be mutually exclusive to the thieves and assassins (like werewolves and vampire). You can be only a bounty hunter or a criminal (thief and assassin).

STEVIL · September 2017

splarv wrote: »

I stayed at the craft station in Vivec city and my thoughts about crafting were constantly interrupted by gurgle sounds of cutting throat. Why do I do nothing when I see how a murder kills innocent women and men? At last this game is for childrens, what they may study from that? I have an idea.
The PvP activities are pearls of the end game and TESO already can afford some: duels, the big war in Cyrodiil, fightings of small groups in the battlegrounds. What about war with criminals in the “safe cities” to protect innocent NPC’s?
There are two criminal guilds already: thieves and assassins. Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters. They will can complain about crime (assign bounty), call the guards and even kill or arrest and put in jail and get bounty for himself. And this guild must be mutually exclusive to the thieves and assassins (like werewolves and vampire). You can be only a bounty hunter or a criminal (thief and assassin).

Game rating is MA, nor children.

Subject of PVP justice is old, not new and often heated. but for me its simple, there should not be PVP penalties for PVE activities. there are PVE guards and bounty and so forth already in play. no need to allow anyone to PVP folks doing PVE content they find worth killing over.

Consider, if my character would like to kill folks who are betraying the local rulers and allying with an evil hag - should i then be able to PVP folks running that quest in bangkorai?

If my character follows the green pact, should i be allowed to PVP folks harvesting columbine and Water hyacinth?

if my character is a vampire, should i be able to PVP folks running that quest in Eastmarch where they are killing bloodfiends and vamps and so forth?

To me, if you choose to allow PVP for "doing PVE stuff i dont like" you turn the whole world open PVP, which some might liike, but not all.

splarv · October 2017

The idea was to move this PvE (which is too easy by now) content to PvP activity. It will be much more fun of criminal war, rather then just cut throats of innocent stupid NPC, when everyone can see this.
Or, may be at least give chance to players of other side support innocents, for instance call the guards.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · October 2017

But those NPC deaths make me rich...

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · October 2017

Join us, you know you want to.

generalmyrick · October 2017

splarv wrote: »

I stayed at the craft station in Vivec city and my thoughts about crafting were constantly interrupted by gurgle sounds of cutting throat. Why do I do nothing when I see how a murder kills innocent women and men? At last this game is for childrens, what they may study from that? I have an idea.
The PvP activities are pearls of the end game and TESO already can afford some: duels, the big war in Cyrodiil, fightings of small groups in the battlegrounds. What about war with criminals in the “safe cities” to protect innocent NPC’s?
There are two criminal guilds already: thieves and assassins. Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters. They will can complain about crime (assign bounty), call the guards and even kill or arrest and put in jail and get bounty for himself. And this guild must be mutually exclusive to the thieves and assassins (like werewolves and vampire). You can be only a bounty hunter or a criminal (thief and assassin).

OK, i would be soooo in favor of this!

Except i wanna add to it! I want to put a bounty on anybody!

i could pay like 50k to the bounty board and name a player, then the eso machine takes its 10% and then the remaining 90% goes to the lucky person who visits the bounty board and finds it!

i think the truly great PVPers would enjoy having huge bounties on their head in PVE land. they could even visit the board and see who put a bounty on them and then put a bounty on that person.

eso could make it a minimum of 50k or something to stop people form putting 1 gold bounties to abuse the system!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I LOVE IT!!!!

exeeter702 · October 2017

splarv wrote: »

I stayed at the craft station in Vivec city and my thoughts about crafting were constantly interrupted by gurgle sounds of cutting throat. Why do I do nothing when I see how a murder kills innocent women and men? At last this game is for childrens, what they may study from that? I have an idea.
The PvP activities are pearls of the end game and TESO already can afford some: duels, the big war in Cyrodiil, fightings of small groups in the battlegrounds. What about war with criminals in the “safe cities” to protect innocent NPC’s?
There are two criminal guilds already: thieves and assassins. Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters. They will can complain about crime (assign bounty), call the guards and even kill or arrest and put in jail and get bounty for himself. And this guild must be mutually exclusive to the thieves and assassins (like werewolves and vampire). You can be only a bounty hunter or a criminal (thief and assassin).

Like 99 percent of other bounty pvp systems that players try to suggest here, this one will not work plain and simple. You cant create a system that produces gold out of nowhere (npcs creating bounties) and apply said gold to be paid out based on specific and meditated player actions. Would effectively destroy the economy as anyone with an inkling of forethought will discover within minutes how easily your suggested system can be gamed.

If its strictly a system that enables open world pvp in non cyrodil/IC zones than i suppose it could be a fun distraction. But it would have to not yeild any desirable currency, commodities or prestige rewards.

generalmyrick · October 2017

exeeter702 wrote: »

splarv wrote: »

I stayed at the craft station in Vivec city and my thoughts about crafting were constantly interrupted by gurgle sounds of cutting throat. Why do I do nothing when I see how a murder kills innocent women and men? At last this game is for childrens, what they may study from that? I have an idea.
The PvP activities are pearls of the end game and TESO already can afford some: duels, the big war in Cyrodiil, fightings of small groups in the battlegrounds. What about war with criminals in the “safe cities” to protect innocent NPC’s?
There are two criminal guilds already: thieves and assassins. Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters. They will can complain about crime (assign bounty), call the guards and even kill or arrest and put in jail and get bounty for himself. And this guild must be mutually exclusive to the thieves and assassins (like werewolves and vampire). You can be only a bounty hunter or a criminal (thief and assassin).

Like 99 percent of other bounty pvp systems that players try to suggest here, this one will not work plain and simple. You cant create a system that produces gold out of nowhere (npcs creating bounties) and apply said gold to be paid out based on specific and meditated player actions. Would effectively destroy the economy as anyone with an inkling of forethought will discover within minutes how easily your suggested system can be gamed.

If its strictly a system that enables open world pvp in non cyrodil/IC zones than i suppose it could be a fun distraction. But it would have to not yeild any desirable currency, commodities or prestige rewards.

that's why you allow player to place bounties on other players and eso takes a 10% cut. IT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!! Establish a minimum so nubs can't abuse it to annoyingness!.

exeeter702 · October 2017

generalmyrick wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

splarv wrote: »

I stayed at the craft station in Vivec city and my thoughts about crafting were constantly interrupted by gurgle sounds of cutting throat. Why do I do nothing when I see how a murder kills innocent women and men? At last this game is for childrens, what they may study from that? I have an idea.
The PvP activities are pearls of the end game and TESO already can afford some: duels, the big war in Cyrodiil, fightings of small groups in the battlegrounds. What about war with criminals in the “safe cities” to protect innocent NPC’s?
There are two criminal guilds already: thieves and assassins. Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters. They will can complain about crime (assign bounty), call the guards and even kill or arrest and put in jail and get bounty for himself. And this guild must be mutually exclusive to the thieves and assassins (like werewolves and vampire). You can be only a bounty hunter or a criminal (thief and assassin).

Like 99 percent of other bounty pvp systems that players try to suggest here, this one will not work plain and simple. You cant create a system that produces gold out of nowhere (npcs creating bounties) and apply said gold to be paid out based on specific and meditated player actions. Would effectively destroy the economy as anyone with an inkling of forethought will discover within minutes how easily your suggested system can be gamed.

If its strictly a system that enables open world pvp in non cyrodil/IC zones than i suppose it could be a fun distraction. But it would have to not yeild any desirable currency, commodities or prestige rewards.

that's why you allow player to place bounties on other players and eso takes a 10% cut. IT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!! Establish a minimum so nubs can't abuse it to annoyingness!.

No it wouldnt.. players either opt out of partaking entirely as it would literally be equal to throwing gold away or the bounty amounts set are so paltry that no one even cares. There is zero incentive to such a system.

When you actually stop and peel away all the "RP" nonsense, what you are asking for is player A throws gold away so players B and C can pvp for gold. And for obvious (or ostensibly not, on the forums) reasons it would have to be a player opt in system, which undermines everything a bounty system represents.

Again, if bounty values are determined by npcs based on player criminal activity, you create gold from no where and create a system where it can be farmed with incredible ease. If you place the exchange between players setting the bounties, then you are just asking for players to throw gold away unless you create an incentive for the individual placing the bounty which in turn goes back to sqaure one, players would just farm it in controlled environments.

I cant believe im about to use real life as a point here, but in this case i find it particularly relevant. Bounty systems work in real life because for the hunter, it is a gain in profit or some type of desirable reward. For the bounty placer, the target themselves being taken into custody or eliminated actually has value in and of itself because they pose a threat or have commited a crime of some sort. This does not apply to this game where the most you have at risk is a soul stone and stolen goods and no player carries any type of substantial influence to the point where killing them is a reward itself unless for RP reasons.

idk · October 2017

Essentially, Zos considered an idea not to far from what OP is mentioning. In the end Zos decided to not have player vs player bounties since it would require designing a system so players could opt out of participating in it.

A game that is not designed with open world PvP where players are forced to deal with it cannot change it in mid ways, if they want to keep most of the existing players so an opt out system would have been required and it is usually not implemented well. It would be a worse idea to tell players they can no longer play part of the game without being forced to PvP unlike Cyrodiil that was PvP from the start.

Hippie4927 · October 2017

splarv wrote: »

They will can complain about crime (assign bounty), call the guards and even kill or arrest and put in jail and get bounty for himself.

You want to stop all the killing by killing the killer?

VaranisArano · October 2017

Sorry. No. That's exactly the sort of idea that makes people avoid content.

I mean, I'm sorry that your immersion is ruined by dead bodies of NPCs, but as a player who plays an assassin and a thief? The justice system is immersive enough with having to avoid being seen by guards (who are unkillable) and NPCs who can give me an annoying bounty.

If you want a PVP element in a PVE environment, you should go to the Imperial City. I bring this up as evidence for exactly why your suggestion would not work. Right now, we have several threads about how to make the Imperial City better - most of which boils down to people who like the PVP element and the risk/reward of getting ganked like Imperial City, those who don't like that element avoid it like the plague, and with the exception of the anniversary events it doesn't get played much.

But okay. Let's consider your desire. I've got a counter to it. If you can place a bounty contract on my Dark Brotherhood Silencer and she gets killed because of it...well, the Dark Brotherhood doesn't take that lying down. You now have a Black Sacrament out on you that can be completed by any Dark Brotherhood member for their own level of rewards. If you want to take on the Dark Brotherhood, be prepared for the Night Mother to deliver you to the Void.

Oh, and how about the Thieves Guild? How do you think the thieves should get to deal with people who put out contracts on them? Can I steal your stuff? That hard earned stuff you gained by doing in game content just like I earned my ill-gotten gains by doing in-game content? Like the Iron Wheel learned, if you take on the Theives Guild, be prepared for them to steal what you hold dear.

Turnabouts fair play. Or maybe, you can accept that between Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood DLCs, ZOS has created content to encourage players to engage in stealing and murder sprees and continues to encourage that behavior by gating motifs and furnishings behind pickpocketing and murder. Ultimately, forcing PVP into the Justice system would force players out of the DLC content.

Moreover, I'm not sure that any murderer or thief willingly engaging in such a PVP system would be the soft target your bounty hunters seem to hope for. But if PVP ganking/solo combat while people are going about their business is your thing, try the Imperial City DLC! That's exactly what that DLC is made for, and you can even figure out how effective your Bounty Hunter build would be against players who are prepared to fight back.

Zbigb4life · October 2017

No, in pve zones you should be safe. It's the guards duty to keep the innocent safe

Enslaved · October 2017

I see what OP is talking about and yes, it is complete bs to stand there while [various sjw triggering insults] live their "fantasy" by killing non hostile NPCs.

Entire justice system needs rework. Petty thievery is one thing, but killing ppl on street in the middle of a day is another. Or are these "values" Zos want us to believe are normal?

Solution. Murder that was seen by others should be 10k flat. Every consecutive one would net you exponentially more bounty, until you are unable to play that char outside PvP for a irl decade or so. Also, remove motif/recipes from non hostile NPCs. Or make blade of woe have a timer (5 minutes or so). And make non hostile NPC health 100k.

nnargun · October 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

I see what OP is talking about and yes, it is complete bs to stand there while [various sjw triggering insults] live their "fantasy" by killing non hostile NPCs.

Entire justice system needs rework. Petty thievery is one thing, but killing ppl on street in the middle of a day is another. Or are these "values" Zos want us to believe are normal?

Solution. Murder that was seen by others should be 10k flat. Every consecutive one would net you exponentially more bounty, until you are unable to play that char outside PvP for a irl decade or so. Also, remove motif/recipes from non hostile NPCs. Or make blade of woe have a timer (5 minutes or so). And make non hostile NPC health 100k.

Are you trolling or do you actually consider the feelings of NPCs? How exactly do you justify your suggestion to ruin the game for people who "kill" a bunch of zeroes and ones that are even back "alive" after a short period of time? That's just silly.

I'd suggest you play Tetris or something if you can't stand NPCs getting "murdered".

FoolishHuman · October 2017

If players start acting as NPCs, we should be able to BoW and pickpocket them as well, right? Because if this is only one way it would be pretty unfair.

FoolishHuman · October 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

I see what OP is talking about and yes, it is complete bs to stand there while [various sjw triggering insults] live their "fantasy" by killing non hostile NPCs.

Entire justice system needs rework. Petty thievery is one thing, but killing ppl on street in the middle of a day is another. Or are these "values" Zos want us to believe are normal?

Solution. Murder that was seen by others should be 10k flat. Every consecutive one would net you exponentially more bounty, until you are unable to play that char outside PvP for a irl decade or so. Also, remove motif/recipes from non hostile NPCs. Or make blade of woe have a timer (5 minutes or so). And make non hostile NPC health 100k.

How would people complete the Dark Brotherhood DLC then?

Flynch · October 2017

Give Player-1 a /call-guard function that they can trigger/hotkey/whatever whenever they see something dodgy from Player-2 going down.

If the system recognizes a bounty or recent crime (say 10 seconds) in Player-1's vicinity, then guards spawn in (depending on the crime), and the chase ensues.

For theft: The /call-guard function cannot be triggered unless a crime has been committed and a bounty has been incurred from being caught by an NPC. Player-1 would most likely be informed of a criminal being spotted by the NPC vocal announcements. No further bounty is given to Player-2 from the triggered function.

A spawn of 1 guard per criminal within 15 yards or something, up to a max of 4.

For murder: The /call-guard function can be triggered when Player-1 sees the murder (line of sight). Player-2 then incurs a bounty.

A spawn of 3-5 guards within 15 yards. All are capable of dealing with multiple criminals at the same time as murder is a kill-on-sight offence.

I feel this would mean we avoid having to bring PvP into the justice system and keeping it semi-active, semi-passive-aggressive. Stealing is a lighter crime and is far more subtle than murder, so the /call-guard function is much more lenient. Murder is the opposite, and frankly should be done in the (literal) shadows and away from town centres (ergo, other players).

I'm sure there are issues with what I've rambled on about, so let me know! Apologies for the truckload of hyphens.

Rohamad_Ali · October 2017

I think it would be fair if bounties went into really high numbers . Say someone murdering a town of NPCs and racks up a bounty over 500K and then players would have access to kill that mass murderer . Don't want to be flagged simply don't be a complete psychopath Ingame . Players could still do content safely but would need to exercise some caution . That seems fair to me .

FoolishHuman · October 2017

Flynch wrote: »

For murder: The /call-guard function can be triggered when Player-1 sees the murder (line of sight). Player-2 then incurs a bounty.

A spawn of 3-5 guards within 15 yards. All are capable of dealing with multiple criminals at the same time as murder is a kill-on-sight offence.

I'm sorry I have to ask you the same question, but how are people supposed to complete the Dark Brotherhood DLC with a system like that? Just to start, a lot of trolls would sit in anvil and kvatch and noone would even be able to start the questline without tons of frustration. Then the contracts where you have to kill a specific marked target, and you need to complete dozens of these contracts to get to the next story quest. Or the litany of blood achievement. Noone will play that DLC if you get a bounty for every murder and have to pay thousands of gold to progress with the quests.

Flynch · October 2017

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

For murder: The /call-guard function can be triggered when Player-1 sees the murder (line of sight). Player-2 then incurs a bounty.

A spawn of 3-5 guards within 15 yards. All are capable of dealing with multiple criminals at the same time as murder is a kill-on-sight offence.

I'm sorry I have to ask you the same question, but how are people supposed to complete the Dark Brotherhood DLC with a system like that? Just to start, a lot of trolls would sit in anvil and kvatch and noone would even be able to start the questline without tons of frustration. Then the contracts where you have to kill a specific marked target, and you need to complete dozens of these contracts to get to the next story quest. Or the litany of blood achievement. Noone will play that DLC if you get a bounty for every murder and have to pay thousands of gold to progress with the quests.

Well alongside the new system, other things would need to be changed as well - such as where the targets spawn etc. Every zone could be opened up to the DB quests, and that will open up a greater amount of options for the players.

The functionality of /call-guard would also have a cool-down of say 5 minutes, to avoid spam. Although I suspect the amount of trolls shadowing potential criminals would be pretty low.

The targets could even be entirely phase-based, so that only guards and NPCs can observe the murder, although I feel that may lead to some unusual animations observed by other players. I'd still opt for expanding the available area for spawns. Personally I feel they kept the targets in the Gold Coast region for simplicity, because there wasn't anything particularly complicated that DB players had to contend with.

edit: I forgot that currently targets already spawn all over tamriel. So really the only things affected would be the quests tied to the Gold Coast specifically, and that's an easy work around using phasing tbh.

nnargun · October 2017

I really like the idea of being able to report a player to NPC guards so they can deal with it. But the absurdly high gold penalties some of you guys are suggesting here are just ridiculous. What's next? After killing a certain amount of NPCs you get banned from the game or something? It's not like the killing of NPCs actually affects other players.

edit: and if it touches you in an empathetic way as it seems for some here - there was also another thread about this a few days ago where someone expressed their sad feelings towards all the dead NPCs - you should seriously consider a less violent game.

Enslaved · October 2017

nnargun wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

I see what OP is talking about and yes, it is complete bs to stand there while [various sjw triggering insults] live their "fantasy" by killing non hostile NPCs.

Entire justice system needs rework. Petty thievery is one thing, but killing ppl on street in the middle of a day is another. Or are these "values" Zos want us to believe are normal?

Solution. Murder that was seen by others should be 10k flat. Every consecutive one would net you exponentially more bounty, until you are unable to play that char outside PvP for a irl decade or so. Also, remove motif/recipes from non hostile NPCs. Or make blade of woe have a timer (5 minutes or so). And make non hostile NPC health 100k.

Are you trolling or do you actually consider the feelings of NPCs? How exactly do you justify your suggestion to ruin the game for people who "kill" a bunch of zeroes and ones that are even back "alive" after a short period of time? That's just silly.

I'd suggest you play Tetris or something if you can't stand NPCs getting "murdered".

Wat

Are you a breton? I mean, how the f did you saw that from my post?

All I consider is how pathetic and broken is to see everyone around you in towns killed with zero punishment? I guess you don't care about immersion at all, but that is your problem. I preordered Morrowind and played it for less than 30h because of how game breaking is to see everybody getting killed by [various sjw triggering insults] for a few [snip] motifs and some bs housing crap. Same reason I steer away from towns in Gold Coast and Hew's Bane - It is worse than anything I saw in ESO or any MMORPG imo. You try to talk to a NPC and someone kill it. What should you do? Report that [various sjw triggering insults]? For what, that is how Zos see their so called justice system. For someone who enjoyed Morag Tong/DB/TG quests in evert TES game, I find Zos version lazy and underwhelming in every aspect.

And about tetris - I play that bs with AD/DC corpses every day on Alessia Bridge.

[Edited to remove profanity]

nnargun · October 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

Solution. Murder that was seen by others should be 10k flat. Every consecutive one would net you exponentially more bounty, until you are unable to play that char outside PvP for a irl decade or so. Also, remove motif/recipes from non hostile NPCs. Or make blade of woe have a timer (5 minutes or so). And make non hostile NPC health 100k.

That's how.

Maybe I overreacted a bit there though and I apologize for saying you should play Tetris.

The immersion point is valid I guess and that's why I totally support the idea of being able to report to NPC guards.

FoolishHuman · October 2017

Flynch wrote: »

edit: I forgot that currently targets already spawn all over tamriel. So really the only things affected would be the quests tied to the Gold Coast specifically, and that's an easy work around using phasing tbh.

See the problem here is if my target is in wayrest or rawlkha, how am I supposed to kill it without a player seeing? Some places are so crowded you can't get away from other players. You can't expect us to play DB only at night. And the targets are random, so every killable NPC would have to be phased? Why not just keep the system as it is then?
The real problem is that way too valuable items can be obtained from NPCs, and that the respawn time for a kill is faster than the respawn time for items after a pickpocket. If that were changed you would have less murders without having to change the guards or crime system.

Flynch · October 2017

nnargun wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Solution. Murder that was seen by others should be 10k flat. Every consecutive one would net you exponentially more bounty, until you are unable to play that char outside PvP for a irl decade or so. Also, remove motif/recipes from non hostile NPCs. Or make blade of woe have a timer (5 minutes or so). And make non hostile NPC health 100k.

That's how.

Maybe I overreacted a bit there though and I apologize for saying you should play Tetris.

The immersion point is valid I guess and that's why I totally support the idea of being able to report to NPC guards.

Personally i'd have the bounty be super-low, maybe 1-2 gold, but using it as a means to notify the criminal that they have been grassed-up and so that the system has an easier way of interlacing the new mechanic with the current guard mechanic.

They'll either get away scot-free, get caught and have to evade which will cost them more gold, or be KOS from murder. So yeah, the lower the bounty from other Players, the better imo.

Flynch · October 2017

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

edit: I forgot that currently targets already spawn all over tamriel. So really the only things affected would be the quests tied to the Gold Coast specifically, and that's an easy work around using phasing tbh.

See the problem here is if my target is in wayrest or rawlkha, how am I supposed to kill it without a player seeing? Some places are so crowded you can't get away from other players. You can't expect us to play DB only at night. And the targets are random, so every killable NPC would have to be phased? Why not just keep the system as it is then?
The real problem is that way too valuable items can be obtained from NPCs, and that the respawn time for a kill is faster than the respawn time for items after a pickpocket. If that were changed you would have less murders without having to change the guards or crime system.

Just have the targets spawn in far-flung villages. The current system is a total joke tbh, and a few dodge-rolls later and you're down a sewer grate.

You could even have a system where the player can 'persuade' the target to follow them to a discrete section of a city to be dispatched.

I do feel strongly that there are a multiple ways of dealing with the current impotent system.

MattT1988 · October 2017

splarv wrote: »

There are two criminal guilds already: thieves and assassins. Let’s create opposing guild of lawyers or bounty hunters.

I LOL’d at the Lawyer Guild.

Seriously though, people bought this game knowing the faction areas didn’t force PvP on you. Quite a large chunk of the player base enjoy that. It wouldn’t be really fair on them to drastically change that. Same with the TG and DB DLC’s.

However if there was an opt out feature, you’d definitely consider it at the very least, but it would have to be implemented properly and carefully so it doesn’t get exploited.

Enslaved · October 2017

Flynch wrote: »

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

edit: I forgot that currently targets already spawn all over tamriel. So really the only things affected would be the quests tied to the Gold Coast specifically, and that's an easy work around using phasing tbh.

See the problem here is if my target is in wayrest or rawlkha, how am I supposed to kill it without a player seeing? Some places are so crowded you can't get away from other players. You can't expect us to play DB only at night. And the targets are random, so every killable NPC would have to be phased? Why not just keep the system as it is then?
The real problem is that way too valuable items can be obtained from NPCs, and that the respawn time for a kill is faster than the respawn time for items after a pickpocket. If that were changed you would have less murders without having to change the guards or crime system.

Just have the targets spawn in far-flung villages. The current system is a total joke tbh, and a few dodge-rolls later and you're down a sewer grate.

You could even have a system where the player can 'persuade' the target to follow them to a discrete section of a city to be dispatched.

I do feel strongly that there are a multiple ways of dealing with the current impotent system.

This persuade system would be interesting.
Vampires could have some sort of seduction
High lvl TG players could have an option to propose a deal to someone by bribing them.
High lvl undaunted players could simply buy someone a drink and follow them into an ally to do the DB quest after the booze kicks in.
Also, we need that stupid mass murder quests to begone. These have no purpose at all, "kill anyone u want hurrdurr" is not how a serious assassin organizations such are DB or Morag Tong would operate, nor did they do anything similar in any TES game. Just remove that from a quests.

Suggestions to improve existing justice system

If you are freelance killing NPCs (without bounty on them) if seen bounty would be 10k gold.
Any consecutive murder when seen would dramatically increase bounty.
Once you reach 100k bounty NPCs will not give you quests
Once you reach 200k bounty you will be kicked outside all guilds and would have to make amends resulting in serious amount of high value items.
- Fighter's guild would kick you and require you to bring 250 daedra hearts and 10 gold tempers to guild. If you are kicked you cannot use FG skills.
- Mage's guild would kick you and require you to bring 50 nirnroot and 10 gold tempers to guild. If you are kicked you cannot use MG skills.
- Undaunted would kick you and you would be unable to take pledges. You would have to bring 10 of each typed of gold tempers and untill you do so, you could not use undaunted skills or do pledges.
- Thief guild would kick you for bringing them too much heat. You would not be able to take quests or launder any items at all until you pay all your bounty.
- DB would not kick you but decrease your rank to 1, and you would have to progress from scratch in this guild. You would have limit of one repeatable quest per day and no sacraments until you prove that your techniques are not these of a mindless oaf but a true DB assassin. Being part of a DB means you are a precision tool for the job, a scalpel, not a mofo brick in a sock.
- All guilds would require bounty to be less than 20k to be able to make amends, with TG as an exception.
When you get a writ to kill someone for the DB, all bounty for being seen while executing that would be 50% less than when freelance killing. On the other hand, any non writ murder would be same as when freelancing - 10k and exponentially rising.\
Completing quest without being seen or with the usage of persuation/seduction on a target would improve gold you get from that writ. There would be a small chance to get bonus item after every 3 consecutive perfect writs - a motif chapter, an housing item of blue quality, a motif chapter related to zone that writ was related to. So, if you do writ in Vvardenfell and do it without be seen, there would be a chance to get motif from Vvardenfell. Every 10th perfect writ would guarantee a pouch of alchemy reagents, containing 10 random plants and 10 other reagents used for poisons.
Completing TG quest without being seen would result in bonus reward, every 3rd consecutive perfect quest would guarantee you a housing recipe of blue quality. Every 5th consecutive perfect quest would guarantee you a purple housing recipe and a small chance for motif page from that quest's zone. Every 10th perfect consecutive quest would guarantee you a master crafting writ and a higher motif chance.
Being seen too many times when doing these quests in a row would make TG/DB questgivers to question your dedication and skills, resulting in time penalty - 1-3h.
If you are true master of the ways of the DB/TG, you would get better prices at fences all around the Tamriel. This would net you 5% better prices for each 10 consecutive perfect quests, and 1% per each perfect heist/sacrament. Failing once would not decrease this bonus asap, but if you were seen 2x in a row, this benefit would be reset to zero.

I think changes like these would really bring some excitement and flavor to the justice system, and many more players would decide to purchase TG/DB. Being perfect thief or assassin ( read it as stealthy and proficient) would bring one the great fortunes, and still be way better than immersion breaking lazy mass murder system we have now.

VaranisArano · October 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

I see what OP is talking about and yes, it is complete bs to stand there while [various sjw triggering insults] live their "fantasy" by killing non hostile NPCs.

Entire justice system needs rework. Petty thievery is one thing, but killing ppl on street in the middle of a day is another. Or are these "values" Zos want us to believe are normal?

Solution. Murder that was seen by others should be 10k flat. Every consecutive one would net you exponentially more bounty, until you are unable to play that char outside PvP for a irl decade or so. Also, remove motif/recipes from non hostile NPCs. Or make blade of woe have a timer (5 minutes or so). And make non hostile NPC health 100k.

See, here's a solution! A solution that requires ZOS to change how they've set up the new Morrowind motifs. A solution that punishes players for playing the in-game content that they paid ZOS for. A solution that nearly negates the entire reason to buy the Dark Brotherhood DLC since the Blade of Woe is the best part. A solution that makes NPCs a mini-boss...wait, why? Like 100k health is going to stop any decent DPS from killing them?

Look, in TES3, I could play a contract killer (Morag Tong faction). In TES4 Oblivion, I could play a Dark Brotherhood assassin. In TES5 Skyrim, I could assassinate the Emperor and become the Listener of the Dark Brotherhood (or mostly wipe them out if I chose). In ESO, I can be a Dark Brotherhood Silencer, and rob and murder people and get rewarded for doing so by the game developers. Oh, and if I get caught, the guards murder me and take my stolen stuff! (Well, except for Morrowind where I show my Morag Tong Writ and walk off scott free.)

Its almost like the game developers want people who bought the Dark Brotherhood/Thieves Guild DLCs to play the content and be rewarded for doing so. In fact, its almost like there's been a faction dedicated to killing NPCs in Elder Scrolls games since TES3 Morrowind.

Not to say there isn't risk. You ever try to get the good furnishing recipes from Wood Elf nobles? Bounties rack up fast in that crowded throne room, exactly like you'd expect. If I am a bad thief or a bad murderer, I have to deal with the guards and those guys I can't kill, unlike how well the average player will fare against a bursty ganker build.

Look, I understand that it bothers you to stand helplessly by as someone horribly murders defenceless NPCs. On a roleplaying level, that bothers some of my characters too. But seriously, back off of the roleplaying a bit long enough to realize that behind that murderous character you are getting so mad at is a player who's playing the content they paid for in the manner the ZOS designed and encouraged it to be played. You can play how you want to play within the limits of the game as its been designed, but you have no right to punish someone else for playing within the limits of the game as designed. Like it or not, wanton murder of NPCs is exactly how ZOS has designed and encouraged the post DB-DLC game to be played.

STEVIL · October 2017

nnargun wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Solution. Murder that was seen by others should be 10k flat. Every consecutive one would net you exponentially more bounty, until you are unable to play that char outside PvP for a irl decade or so. Also, remove motif/recipes from non hostile NPCs. Or make blade of woe have a timer (5 minutes or so). And make non hostile NPC health 100k.

That's how.

Maybe I overreacted a bit there though and I apologize for saying you should play Tetris.

The immersion point is valid I guess and that's why I totally support the idea of being able to report to NPC guards.

So, for my immersions, my green pact bosmer can /callgreen on anybody i see harvest columbine and other such plants and channel in numbers of unkillable bosmer floral avengers to stop the crime?

So, for my immersions, my vampire can /callfiends on anybody i see killing bloodfiends or vamps and channel in numbers of unkillable vampire bloodletters to stop the crime (and at the same time have a light brunch?)

So, for my immersions, my Dunmer can /callslavers on anybody i see helping slaves in morrowind and channel in unkillable slaver guards to stop the crime and gain a new commodity for sale?

So for my immersions, My Dominion character can /calldoms when i see characters killing AD landing parties and channel unkillable AD soldiers to...

"Within the world" there are tons of "crimes" defined by different groups, factions, areas, cirsumstances etc.

All the PVE play is based on understood degrees of threat and consequence. PVE is more puzzle-solving than competitive combat, and what you are suggesting is letting bystanders move the pieces around in other folks playing a game.

Allowing players to at will "raise the ante" and effectively interfere with other folks PVE casual/questing because their "immersion" is sensitive opens the world up to wanton "screwing with other players as they try to play" opportunities.

**Do not let my PVE difficulty be determined by whether or not the other players around it want it to be harder for me or not.**

That is such an incredibly bad idea it is just unfathomable - it is building in griefing PVE players as a sub-system.