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I am disgusted... (Part 2)
Vimora
✭✭✭✭
So today I'm sick and tired of gold farming so I thought I'd get back into housing. Let's make use of that huge and pricey manor I bought and furnish it neatly. Let's be clear, I'm not talking about a fancy, limited time, store-bought, MFW (made for whales) house, just the Amaya Lake Lodge in Vvard... but when it comes to turning it into a home, it's proving to be kind of a daunting task for yours truly.
Anyway, off to the guild markets, let's look at some furniture. Okay, some rugs and carpets first, standard 10k gold each, only 120% profit for the crafter, it's acceptable. But when I come across this Indoril vault thing... an ordinary steel vault, nothing special about it, but the price - 26k. Well, nice... someone thinks it's ok to ask for 400% profit, I'm gonna pass, thanks. Off to other guild markets in other cities, I run into this vault again, somewhere around 26k every time. Not even the same crafter, probably just MM telling people it's worth that much. Seriously, it's disgusting! 400% profit, because only you can craft it???
But... I can't even afford to hate those sellers, because they are just trying to make money on a furniture plan that cost them 500k to consume. When will they break even on that cost? Never. People are not buying, so they have to set the prices high to still make some decent money. It's the same thing as the Crown Store. The Mazzatun motif costs 6k crowns because ZOS makes more money this way on a few buyers than in another scenario where it only costs 500 crowns and maybe twice or three times as many people are interested in it. Same thing is happening in the in-game markets.
In another thread, people (and I mean a lot of people) have expressed the sentiment that they'd rather not have a piece of furniture if they can't craft it themselves. I will not buy furniture, I will only buy (or farm) plans because I'm only happy when I crafted it myself. Well, guess what... you will, then, never have 99% of the good stuff ZOS is releasing. They did the right thing, they made the recipes extremely rare, to ensure that the economy works as intended: there is buy and sell, crafters can make money, treasure hunters can make money, everyone can get what they want. We don't live in the stone age, you can't produce everything for yourself. There is an economy and when it's not working because of this unrealistic mindset people are holding, then the whole game is boring, because you can't specialize, demand is low, goods are not moving... the whole thing is dead.
Same thing is happening with gear-crafting, btw. Crafts are super quick and easy to master so people want to (and are able to) make everything for themselves. This is where it began, in my opinion. People got used to making their own gear, they now feel entitled to make everything for themselves.
</rant>
Anyway, off to the guild markets, let's look at some furniture. Okay, some rugs and carpets first, standard 10k gold each, only 120% profit for the crafter, it's acceptable. But when I come across this Indoril vault thing... an ordinary steel vault, nothing special about it, but the price - 26k. Well, nice... someone thinks it's ok to ask for 400% profit, I'm gonna pass, thanks. Off to other guild markets in other cities, I run into this vault again, somewhere around 26k every time. Not even the same crafter, probably just MM telling people it's worth that much. Seriously, it's disgusting! 400% profit, because only you can craft it???
But... I can't even afford to hate those sellers, because they are just trying to make money on a furniture plan that cost them 500k to consume. When will they break even on that cost? Never. People are not buying, so they have to set the prices high to still make some decent money. It's the same thing as the Crown Store. The Mazzatun motif costs 6k crowns because ZOS makes more money this way on a few buyers than in another scenario where it only costs 500 crowns and maybe twice or three times as many people are interested in it. Same thing is happening in the in-game markets.
In another thread, people (and I mean a lot of people) have expressed the sentiment that they'd rather not have a piece of furniture if they can't craft it themselves. I will not buy furniture, I will only buy (or farm) plans because I'm only happy when I crafted it myself. Well, guess what... you will, then, never have 99% of the good stuff ZOS is releasing. They did the right thing, they made the recipes extremely rare, to ensure that the economy works as intended: there is buy and sell, crafters can make money, treasure hunters can make money, everyone can get what they want. We don't live in the stone age, you can't produce everything for yourself. There is an economy and when it's not working because of this unrealistic mindset people are holding, then the whole game is boring, because you can't specialize, demand is low, goods are not moving... the whole thing is dead.
Same thing is happening with gear-crafting, btw. Crafts are super quick and easy to master so people want to (and are able to) make everything for themselves. This is where it began, in my opinion. People got used to making their own gear, they now feel entitled to make everything for themselves.
</rant>
2
-
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you like long winded crafting systems look into BDO . The crafting system here is an after thought just to quickly get back to actual gameplay and I like this way . I was able to craft and make everything in all my houses myself . Really expensive items too , not just filler junk . It took a few months of farming but I was successful .
The problem I see with housing has nothing to do with any of this . It lacks a purpose . Storage is a purpose and a reason to go to one's house . Seems like every game but ESO understands this . Guild houses with guild storage . We need more then just sit and craft in a empty guild house a few items . We need a reason to run into other players . Granting storage access for friends would accomplish this .9 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭So today I'm sick and tired of gold farming so I thought I'd get back into housing. Let's make use of that huge and pricey manor I bought and furnish it neatly. Let's be clear, I'm not talking about a fancy, limited time, store-bought, MFW (made for whales) house, just the Amaya Lake Lodge in Vvard... but when it comes to turning it into a home, it's proving to be kind of a daunting task for yours truly.
Anyway, off to the guild markets, let's look at some furniture. Okay, some rugs and carpets first, standard 10k gold each, only 120% profit for the crafter, it's acceptable. But when I come across this Indoril vault thing... an ordinary steel vault, nothing special about it, but the price - 26k. Well, nice... someone thinks it's ok to ask for 400% profit, I'm gonna pass, thanks. Off to other guild markets in other cities, I run into this vault again, somewhere around 26k every time. Not even the same crafter, probably just MM telling people it's worth that much. Seriously, it's disgusting! 400% profit, because only you can craft it???
But... I can't even afford to hate those sellers, because they are just trying to make money on a furniture plan that cost them 500k to consume. When will they break even on that cost? Never. People are not buying, so they have to set the prices high to still make some decent money. It's the same thing as the Crown Store. The Mazzatun motif costs 6k crowns because ZOS makes more money this way on a few buyers than in another scenario where it only costs 500 crowns and maybe twice or three times as many people are interested in it. Same thing is happening in the in-game markets.
In another thread, people (and I mean a lot of people) have expressed the sentiment that they'd rather not have a piece of furniture if they can't craft it themselves. I will not buy furniture, I will only buy (or farm) plans because I'm only happy when I crafted it myself. Well, guess what... you will, then, never have 99% of the good stuff ZOS is releasing. They did the right thing, they made the recipes extremely rare, to ensure that the economy works as intended: there is buy and sell, crafters can make money, treasure hunters can make money, everyone can get what they want. We don't live in the stone age, you can't produce everything for yourself. There is an economy and when it's not working because of this unrealistic mindset people are holding, then the whole game is boring, because you can't specialize, demand is low, goods are not moving... the whole thing is dead.
Same thing is happening with gear-crafting, btw. Crafts are super quick and easy to master so people want to (and are able to) make everything for themselves. This is where it began, in my opinion. People got used to making their own gear, they now feel entitled to make everything for themselves.
</rant>
Edited by Shadzilla on October 2, 2017 12:42AM0 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »If you like long winded crafting systems look into BDO . The crafting system here is an after thought just to quickly get back to actual gameplay and I like this way . I was able to craft and make everything in all my houses myself . Really expensive items too , not just filler junk . It took a few months of farming but I was successful .
The problem I see with housing has nothing to do with any of this . It lacks a purpose . Storage is a purpose and a reason to go to one's house . Seems like every game but ESO understands this . Guild houses with guild storage . We need more then just sit and craft in a empty guild house a few items . We need a reason to run into other players . Granting storage access for friends would accomplish this .
Banker npc already in game that you can place at ur home?
That's a lot of storage if you have eso+1 -
Hippie4927✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Same thing is happening with gear-crafting, btw. Crafts are super quick and easy to master so people want to (and are able to) make everything for themselves. This is where it began, in my opinion. People got used to making their own gear, they now feel entitled to make everything for themselves.
</rant>
Entitled? It took a long time to get to Master Crafter (9 traits). I SHOULD be able to craft everything myself and that doesn't make me 'entitled'. I worked hard for it.
PC/NA/EP ✌️7 -
Damianos✭✭✭✭You do realize that the Great House recipes are extremely rare. In most cases the craft cost is upwards of 15k. Sure, they are making a profit. If you don't like the prices, feel free to spend 30+ hours a week farming in hopes of finding just one of the Vvardenfell recipes. Otherwise you have a few other options:
1) Find someone who is willing to craft it for you cheaper.
2) Buy the items off the crown store while in your home.
3) Find the recipes, which usually run for 500k to 1m+, being sold either in zone or on a trader and make it yourself.
4) Stop complaining. Those items aren't required for you to design your house, they are just nice to have. Use only what you can make yourself.1 -
Vimora✭✭✭✭You do realize that the Great House recipes are extremely rare. In most cases the craft cost is upwards of 15k. Sure, they are making a profit. If you don't like the prices, feel free to spend 30+ hours a week farming in hopes of finding just one of the Vvardenfell recipes. Otherwise you have a few other options:
1) Find someone who is willing to craft it for you cheaper.
2) Buy the items off the crown store while in your home.
3) Find the recipes, which usually run for 500k to 1m+, being sold either in zone or on a trader and make it yourself.
4) Stop complaining. Those items aren't required for you to design your house, they are just nice to have. Use only what you can make yourself.
I have some purples and the craft cost is 4-5k. Less if it's alchemy or enchanting.0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yeah I noticed the market doing poorer now cause of one putting rare stuff on the crown store now, and also allowing us to retrait so we don't need to spend high prices on gear. Seems the only way to actually make money in game at all now is to farm mats.Edited by Cpt_Teemo on October 2, 2017 1:03AM0 -
Dantaria✭✭✭✭✭
Really? How, pray tell, did you work hard for it? XDHippie4927 wrote: »Entitled? It took a long time to get to Master Crafter (9 traits). I SHOULD be able to craft everything myself and that doesn't make me 'entitled'. I worked hard for it.
Please. I'm almost master crafter myself and "almost" here is for one simple reason - time. I only started playing in the end of December 2016.
Learning 9 traits takes 0 effort. It only takes time. And maybe some money, but the prices on Nirnhorned items, which you need for research, are honestly low. And it's "maybe", because if you're a member of the guild which has master crafter, it becomes free. Several circles around Craglorn and bam - you have enough nirncruxes to fill 3 research slots. You ask your guildie to craft Ninrhorned, which they'll do for free for your nirncrux, and rinse and repeat month later.
Yeah. Hard work
Edited by Dantaria on October 2, 2017 1:04AMEnglish isn't my native, apologies for any mistakes.0 -
Damianos✭✭✭✭I have some purples and the craft cost is 4-5k. Less if it's alchemy or enchanting.
There are several where the craft cost is upwards of 20k. Sheer amount of mats, rarity of mats, etc. I have close to, or just over, 1,000 furniture patterns. There are several where the craft cost is just insane.
0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »If you like long winded crafting systems look into BDO . The crafting system here is an after thought just to quickly get back to actual gameplay and I like this way . I was able to craft and make everything in all my houses myself . Really expensive items too , not just filler junk . It took a few months of farming but I was successful .
The problem I see with housing has nothing to do with any of this . It lacks a purpose . Storage is a purpose and a reason to go to one's house . Seems like every game but ESO understands this . Guild houses with guild storage . We need more then just sit and craft in a empty guild house a few items . We need a reason to run into other players . Granting storage access for friends would accomplish this .
Banker npc already in game that you can place at ur home?
That's a lot of storage if you have eso+
I'm talking separate storage from personal banks , shared storage . And , you can never have too much storage in a MMO ...ever .1 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »If you like long winded crafting systems look into BDO . The crafting system here is an after thought just to quickly get back to actual gameplay and I like this way . I was able to craft and make everything in all my houses myself . Really expensive items too , not just filler junk . It took a few months of farming but I was successful .
The problem I see with housing has nothing to do with any of this . It lacks a purpose . Storage is a purpose and a reason to go to one's house . Seems like every game but ESO understands this . Guild houses with guild storage . We need more then just sit and craft in a empty guild house a few items . We need a reason to run into other players . Granting storage access for friends would accomplish this .
Banker npc already in game that you can place at ur home?
That's a lot of storage if you have eso+
I'm talking separate storage from personal banks , shared storage . And , you can never have too much storage in a MMO ...ever .
I agree plus the banker you can take out anywhere so still no reason to go to ur place to use it. I guess I can see ur point.1 -
Hippie4927✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Really? How, pray tell, did you work hard for it? XDHippie4927 wrote: »Entitled? It took a long time to get to Master Crafter (9 traits). I SHOULD be able to craft everything myself and that doesn't make me 'entitled'. I worked hard for it.
Please. I'm almost master crafter myself and "almost" here is for one simple reason - time. I only started playing in the end of December 2016.
Learning 9 traits takes 0 effort. It only takes time. And maybe some money, but the prices on Nirnhorned items, which you need for research, are honestly low. And it's "maybe", because if you're a member of the guild which has master crafter, it becomes free. Several circles around Craglorn and bam - you have enough nirncruxes to fill 3 research slots. You ask your guildie to craft Ninrhorned, which they'll do for free for your nirncrux, and rinse and repeat month later.
Yeah. Hard work
I've had my master crafter for a long time. I had to farm crux when it was only in upper Crag and was far more rare than it is now. I would farm for days and even weeks and not find any. So, yes, by game standards, it was hard work!
I just realized that this sounds like a "I had to walk 10 miles barefooted in the snow to get to school" rant! lolPC/NA/EP ✌️1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »Rohamad_Ali wrote: »If you like long winded crafting systems look into BDO . The crafting system here is an after thought just to quickly get back to actual gameplay and I like this way . I was able to craft and make everything in all my houses myself . Really expensive items too , not just filler junk . It took a few months of farming but I was successful .
The problem I see with housing has nothing to do with any of this . It lacks a purpose . Storage is a purpose and a reason to go to one's house . Seems like every game but ESO understands this . Guild houses with guild storage . We need more then just sit and craft in a empty guild house a few items . We need a reason to run into other players . Granting storage access for friends would accomplish this .
Banker npc already in game that you can place at ur home?
That's a lot of storage if you have eso+
I'm talking separate storage from personal banks , shared storage . And , you can never have too much storage in a MMO ...ever .
I agree plus the banker you can take out anywhere so still no reason to go to ur place to use it. I guess I can see ur point.
With all these changes to classes and gear constantly this would be great to retain sets that get nerfed but may make a comeback later on . Bank unlocks are very expensive at the last 30 slots and that is a reason many don't throw gold into it . It's better with ESO plus now but ESO plus could be even more valuable by adding home storage . Crafters feel the bank space pinch more then anyone . Having direct access to a shared storage would help crafting in guilds a lot instead of having to find a banker in a city with guild bank access . I don't know of the personal banker allows any access to guild bank space as I never bought one . But all this would increase traffic to player housing and bring some life into reasons to decorate and personalize , know guests will be visiting .0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's called a free market. Sellers sell at the price people are willing to buy. A price can never be too high.
If you're having trouble finding a specific item, you can use the TTC website if you're on PC: https://tamrieltradecentre.com/
If you think these prices are expensive, you should have decorated your house when housing came out.
Green items? 20k
Blue items? 50k
Purple items? 100k
These were items, not blueprints. I spent a few million decorating my house in the first week.Edited by MLGProPlayer on October 2, 2017 2:10AM0 -
AuraNebula✭✭✭✭✭At the end of the day, this is still a game. Each person can play whichever way they choose. Some people like to collect things, they can because it's their game. Play the way you want. If they would rather have the designs than going out and buying each individual item, what's the big deal? That is not destroying the market, different things effect it, but I highly doubt people buying designs rather than just buying the item is the issue.
Becoming a master crafter is time consuming, it's not something everyone can do right off the bat. If they want to put use the time and skill points they've earned, it's really up to them what they choose to do with it.0 -
Electrone_Magnus✭✭✭This is why I quit housing. Every furnishing is a minimum of 5k gold so if I want to buy 200 of them its already 1 million.. And some other furnishings like statues and trees are 30k gold and to furnish a large house it would cost millions for something that is just cosmetic. I wish they didn't have crown store furnishings because its clear the blueprint drop rates are unreasonably low( purple ones) so that more people use the crown store. Motif pages are around 10k each so I guess it's better to spend my gold on those instead.0 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[snip]
Same thing is happening with gear-crafting, btw. Crafts are super quick and easy to master so people want to (and are able to) make everything for themselves. This is where it began, in my opinion. People got used to making their own gear, they now feel entitled to make everything for themselves.
</rant>
No, it began with the complaints of competitive content players leading to the devaluing of crafted gear (loss of the extra level, new group-content sets supplanting existing crafted ones.. etc.). Before that happened there was a market for these things. Motifs in the Crown Store also acted to devalue the work of crafting players. Together they killed most of the crafting markets.
Furniture crafting was put in to try and redress that balance without imperiling the Skinner boxes that competitive content players have convinced themselves are the best approach to MMO content.
Crafting and crafters are the ones who have been screwed. Not the other way around.
Really? How, pray tell, did you work hard for it? XDHippie4927 wrote: »Entitled? It took a long time to get to Master Crafter (9 traits). I SHOULD be able to craft everything myself and that doesn't make me 'entitled'. I worked hard for it.
Please. I'm almost master crafter myself and "almost" here is for one simple reason - time. I only started playing in the end of December 2016.
Learning 9 traits takes 0 effort. It only takes time. And maybe some money, but the prices on Nirnhorned items, which you need for research, are honestly low. And it's "maybe", because if you're a member of the guild which has master crafter, it becomes free. Several circles around Craglorn and bam - you have enough nirncruxes to fill 3 research slots. You ask your guildie to craft Ninrhorned, which they'll do for free for your nirncrux, and rinse and repeat month later.
Yeah. Hard work
I did it all in March (PC Early Access)/April 2014.
The system has been made considerably easier to master (Enchanting I am looking at you) and the items required for mastery are considerably more available than they were.
Don't judge other people's journey based on your own.Edited by Iluvrien on October 2, 2017 5:07AM2 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭So today I'm sick and tired of gold farming so I thought I'd get back into housing. Let's make use of that huge and pricey manor I bought and furnish it neatly. Let's be clear, I'm not talking about a fancy, limited time, store-bought, MFW (made for whales) house, just the Amaya Lake Lodge in Vvard... but when it comes to turning it into a home, it's proving to be kind of a daunting task for yours truly.
Anyway, off to the guild markets, let's look at some furniture. Okay, some rugs and carpets first, standard 10k gold each, only 120% profit for the crafter, it's acceptable. But when I come across this Indoril vault thing... an ordinary steel vault, nothing special about it, but the price - 26k. Well, nice... someone thinks it's ok to ask for 400% profit, I'm gonna pass, thanks. Off to other guild markets in other cities, I run into this vault again, somewhere around 26k every time. Not even the same crafter, probably just MM telling people it's worth that much. Seriously, it's disgusting! 400% profit, because only you can craft it???
But... I can't even afford to hate those sellers, because they are just trying to make money on a furniture plan that cost them 500k to consume. When will they break even on that cost? Never. People are not buying, so they have to set the prices high to still make some decent money. It's the same thing as the Crown Store. The Mazzatun motif costs 6k crowns because ZOS makes more money this way on a few buyers than in another scenario where it only costs 500 crowns and maybe twice or three times as many people are interested in it. Same thing is happening in the in-game markets.
In another thread, people (and I mean a lot of people) have expressed the sentiment that they'd rather not have a piece of furniture if they can't craft it themselves. I will not buy furniture, I will only buy (or farm) plans because I'm only happy when I crafted it myself. Well, guess what... you will, then, never have 99% of the good stuff ZOS is releasing. They did the right thing, they made the recipes extremely rare, to ensure that the economy works as intended: there is buy and sell, crafters can make money, treasure hunters can make money, everyone can get what they want. We don't live in the stone age, you can't produce everything for yourself. There is an economy and when it's not working because of this unrealistic mindset people are holding, then the whole game is boring, because you can't specialize, demand is low, goods are not moving... the whole thing is dead.
Same thing is happening with gear-crafting, btw. Crafts are super quick and easy to master so people want to (and are able to) make everything for themselves. This is where it began, in my opinion. People got used to making their own gear, they now feel entitled to make everything for themselves.
</rant>
I take it an extra step = only furnishings I find organically!
That way my home is more like a "museum of my adventures."
And f the crafter's taking money from the people!
I always try to charge 30% profit. No more no less."The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.0