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Forward Camps

Glarin
Glarin
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I honestly think that the 5 min timer on Forward Camps is too short. By the time a player resses at one and gets back in they fight their timer is up before they die. I believe the timer should be increased to 10 minutes before you can use another camp. It gives it more of a strategic use instead of a "use whenever" kinda thing.
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  • Biro123
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    Glarin wrote: »
    I honestly think that the 5 min timer on Forward Camps is too short. By the time a player resses at one and gets back in they fight their timer is up before they die. I believe the timer should be increased to 10 minutes before you can use another camp. It gives it more of a strategic use instead of a "use whenever" kinda thing.

    I don't think I agree..

    Often the only thing that gives people the confidence to step outside of a besieged keep to try to push the attackers back is camp. A longer cooldown could lead to more hiding behind walls and less open combat.

    Edited by Biro123 on September 26, 2017 10:04AM
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  • Anazasi
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    Remove camps and revert the change to Kags and fast rezzing. I miss doing this, in fact i would stop leading groups just to run around and rez everyone.
  • Rickter
    Rickter
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    Anazasi wrote: »
    Remove camps and revert the change to Kags and fast rezzing. I miss doing this, in fact i would stop leading groups just to run around and rez everyone.

    sorry for my ignorance, but what did they change with kags?

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  • Serjustin19
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Anazasi wrote: »
    Remove camps and revert the change to Kags and fast rezzing. I miss doing this, in fact i would stop leading groups just to run around and rez everyone.

    sorry for my ignorance, but what did they change with kags?

    @Anazasi

    Last time, I checked. Spell damage was new. I may have forgotten, about this though. Unsure, when it was added. But new to me. However, we all can agree. We can no longer, use forward camps. To jump on keep walls. US fellow DK's of old. :wink:
    Edited by Serjustin19 on September 26, 2017 1:31PM
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  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Anazasi wrote: »
    Remove camps and revert the change to Kags and fast rezzing. I miss doing this, in fact i would stop leading groups just to run around and rez everyone.

    sorry for my ignorance, but what did they change with kags?

    Kags used to be additive with templar and support rez speed passives.

    20 percent from templar, 25 from kags, and 30 from Support gave you 75 percent faster rezzes.

    Now it's multiplicative, so while I'm too lazy to do the math, it's a lot slower.
    Edited by DeadlyRecluse on September 26, 2017 1:56PM
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  • Zvorgin
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    Camp timers are fine. As noted above by @Biro123 they discourage turtling in keeps which is a good thing for PvP overall. Their small radius makes them strategic.
  • idk
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    As someone who remembers the day of constant camps going down, being able to rez constantly and even travel across the map I think the current design has a nice balance.

    its fine as it is.
  • Serjustin19
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    Zvorgin wrote: »
    Camp timers are fine. As noted above by @Biro123 they discourage turtling in keeps which is a good thing for PvP overall. Their small radius makes them strategic.

    I agree with the timers, which totally is fine. I don't agree with the radius, I think others to. I mean it's waste of tents, to go around sejanus or Alessia. For that matter, I didn't realize we could put so many though to. But radius is to small.
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  • Sandman929
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    I still have a love/hate relationship with camps. When I need one they're great, when an enemy group needs one it just feels like they contribute to the zergy situation in Cyrodiil. Maybe horse simulator was better at scattering large groups. When they failed they didn't always rez at the same place and return at the same time. Now large groups get do overs.
  • Maikon
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    You obviously didn't play when the camps had infinite radius and no timer.
  • Sandman929
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    Maikon wrote: »
    You obviously didn't play when the camps had infinite radius and no timer.

    And?
  • Zvorgin
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    Zvorgin wrote: »
    Camp timers are fine. As noted above by @Biro123 they discourage turtling in keeps which is a good thing for PvP overall. Their small radius makes them strategic.

    I agree with the timers, which totally is fine. I don't agree with the radius, I think others to. I mean it's waste of tents, to go around sejanus or Alessia. For that matter, I didn't realize we could put so many though to. But radius is to small.

    The radius could be enlarged, but having a radius does at a strategic element which was my main point. Every time I've been just outside the radius I really really wished they were larger. The camps are also great for organized groups operating way away from any keep held by their alliance that runs into a larger group, without forward camps we'd be stuck.
  • Kartalin
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    Rickter wrote: »
    Anazasi wrote: »
    Remove camps and revert the change to Kags and fast rezzing. I miss doing this, in fact i would stop leading groups just to run around and rez everyone.

    sorry for my ignorance, but what did they change with kags?

    Kags used to be additive with templar and support rez speed passives.

    20 percent from templar, 25 from kags, and 30 from Support gave you 75 percent faster rezzes.

    Now it's multiplicative, so while I'm too lazy to do the math, it's a lot slower.

    Not all that much slower, you can see me get two off quickly here at the 4:50 mark:

    https://youtu.be/2wySNRkSu8Y?t=4m46s

    Camps are definitely a mixed blessing though. If you're running as the smaller group in a fight they just seem to increase your chances of getting zerged down eventually.
    .
    Edited by Kartalin on September 26, 2017 2:58PM
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  • asneakybanana
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    Anazasi wrote: »
    Remove camps and revert the change to Kags and fast rezzing. I miss doing this, in fact i would stop leading groups just to run around and rez everyone.

    As long as they give a 1m cooldown between rezzes and after you were just rezzed if they revert kags. You could be standing next to someone waiting to bash and they would still get the rest off with the old kags, hell there were even times when they would get a res off between crushing shock casts which is ridiculous IMO. The rez spam is just way too much now so with the changes it would just be terrible. As much as I would love to see camps go to 10 minutes as well I agree with biro here that it's one of the few things that actually push people to go out of an under attack keep.
    Zvorgin wrote: »
    Camp timers are fine. As noted above by @Biro123 they discourage turtling in keeps which is a good thing for PvP overall. Their small radius makes them strategic.

    I agree with the timers, which totally is fine. I don't agree with the radius, I think others to. I mean it's waste of tents, to go around sejanus or Alessia. For that matter, I didn't realize we could put so many though to. But radius is to small.

    I think the radius is fine. It forces players to actually think when placing a camp rather than just running off for 30 mins and dropping it. Need to figure out a safe spot that isn't too open or obvious but is still in range of everyone. Also, it makes placing multiple camps at a keep necessary sometimes like at Alessia where you can only cover half the keep at best with a camp and that kind of adds to the keep defense strategy and strategy of sieging keeps. Increasing the radius would just dumb things down a lot.
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  • NBrookus
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    I love OUR forward camps.
    I hate THEIR forward camps. #nerfplease


    I think they need to give significant AP (1000?) for finding and burning enemy camps which makes them a moving, random objective. This would require people staying to guard camps in long fights = more opportunity for fighting.

    You could even squeeze a new armor set out of it that burns siege 25% faster. :p
  • Sharee
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    The one change camps need is making them inactive for a while after being built, so that they can be found and burned before the whole enemy raid instantly rezzes.

    Nothing like trying to flush out an enemy blob out of a tower for 15 minutes, only to have them instantly reappear 1 second after one last sneaker puts down a camp, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. The you spend another 15 mins trying to kill them, and you guessed what happens when you finally do...
  • usmcjdking
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    FCs just need an internal cooldown of 5-7 seconds with respawning a player.

    FCs should work closer to rezzing mechanics than zerg respawning.
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  • Sandman929
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    I've seen quite a bit of the unintentional 2-3 minute load screen mechanic when trying to take a camp. Maybe ZOS can finagle that into becoming a "feature".
  • disintegr8
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    I am happy to leave the timer as is rather than increase it.
    I am such a bad 'potato' that I am usually dead again before the timer runs down and have to wait anyway.
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  • Rickter
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    One of the things we were trying to discuss, is bringing in new blood to pvp. and we agreed that two of the things needed to bring in new players are:

    1) incentive

    and

    2) accessibility

    making CD of FC's longer would diminish accessibility and deter newer players. so, sorry OP - do not share your opinion on this one.
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  • Glarin
    Glarin
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    Forward Camps don't diminish accessibility. Remember that long period when FC weren't around? And yet there were constantly new players in Cyrodiil. If you want incentive they need to improve Rewards for the Worth, make them like they were during Midyear Mayhem.
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  • Beardimus
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    Timer is fine as it is, 10min is way too long. People won't hang about etc and flow of the battle could be lost.
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  • Vizier
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    The FC as they are now are a decent balance between the old days of blood porting entire Zergs across the map and the generous use of Troll Camps by enemies. That said I'd rather they got rid of them altogether. Maybe increase the cost 5-10X. When there were no camps at all it was the best PvP we'd ever had in Cryodiil from my perspective. There was a great deal more opportunity for small group engagements between keeps during a battle since attackers and defenders both had to rez and or reinforce entirely from the nearest held keep. It also made taking keeps a little harder if they were defended.
  • IxSTALKERxI
    IxSTALKERxI
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    It takes 2 minutes to ride back from the nearest keep? How is 5 minutes too short? Increasing it to 10 minutes won't make a difference unless you have to ride from faregyl to dragonclaw.
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  • Anrose
    Anrose
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    If your group can't wipe your opponent twice in 5 minutes to force them to rez elsewhere, then you're probably going to lose the battle.

    The 5 minute time is enough to reinforce the situation. It's not so short that you have almost endless respawn (like when the timer was 2 minutes), but not so long that you're still on cooldown by the time you get to your NEXT fight.
  • zyk
    zyk
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    Anrose wrote: »
    If your group can't wipe your opponent twice in 5 minutes to force them to rez elsewhere, then you're probably going to lose the battle.

    The 5 minute time is enough to reinforce the situation. It's not so short that you have almost endless respawn (like when the timer was 2 minutes), but not so long that you're still on cooldown by the time you get to your NEXT fight.

    If two near equal opponents can't wipe each other twice within 5 minutes, neither is likely to win until one gives up or runs out of camps.

    It's the lack of a victory condition that I hate. Without FCs, once you stopped a group from rezzing, you won. FCs are too easy to get up. It's not practical for a group to prevent it from happening most of the time.

    We were more spread out before the return of FCs. The lanes were always alive with activity. When FCs returned, players immediately became more condensed again and fights began to drag on. I think this is what prompted ZOS to increase oticks to encourage the kind of movement we had before.
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