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An Attempt To Clarify The Nerf Sorc Threads
Vapirko
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There are a lot. And a lot of people get on them and either strongly agree or strongly disagree. Some offer up the fact that single target pve damage as a reason to buff them, others say that their shields or pets are too strong in pvp etc., you get the idea. Not taking a side one way or the other we need to get a few things straight.
1. Most or perhaps all of these threads are calling for Magicka Sorcer nerfs in the context of PvP. As it stands magicka sorcs and stamina dps have different strengths in PvE. Some balance could maybe happen, but nerfs aren’t necessary.
2. In PvP, only a few meta builds cause problems. And there are some infinite shield spam builds out there who can carry shields of around 20k, maybe more, and still do decent burst especially to newer players who can’t purge or out heal them, and can streak nearly endlessly. In general however your average magicka sorc or those playing non meta builds aren’t an issue more than other classes. It’s possible the mag sorc learning curve is less steep in the beginning, but a noob mag sorc goes down just as easily as any other noob playing any class. In fact a noob magplar spamming BOL may be harder to take down.
3. When people say magicka sorcs are OP, the only case where this may be true is when talking about very good players in an evenly matched situation 1v1. In this case a magicka sorc may have an edge with certain builds. Of course when a not so skilled player encounters a very good mag sorc, it seems like god mode.
Stacking destro ults doesn’t reflect on the sorc class but the specific wpn line and zergs.
So this is just my opinion but the amount of nerf sorc threads are out of hand but also convoluted and lack a lot of explanation and are sometimes in the wrong categories, say General eso discussion instead of one of the pvp categories. And in general mag sorcs with skills like mines may just be one of the more frustrating classes to fight against.
1. Most or perhaps all of these threads are calling for Magicka Sorcer nerfs in the context of PvP. As it stands magicka sorcs and stamina dps have different strengths in PvE. Some balance could maybe happen, but nerfs aren’t necessary.
2. In PvP, only a few meta builds cause problems. And there are some infinite shield spam builds out there who can carry shields of around 20k, maybe more, and still do decent burst especially to newer players who can’t purge or out heal them, and can streak nearly endlessly. In general however your average magicka sorc or those playing non meta builds aren’t an issue more than other classes. It’s possible the mag sorc learning curve is less steep in the beginning, but a noob mag sorc goes down just as easily as any other noob playing any class. In fact a noob magplar spamming BOL may be harder to take down.
3. When people say magicka sorcs are OP, the only case where this may be true is when talking about very good players in an evenly matched situation 1v1. In this case a magicka sorc may have an edge with certain builds. Of course when a not so skilled player encounters a very good mag sorc, it seems like god mode.
Stacking destro ults doesn’t reflect on the sorc class but the specific wpn line and zergs.
So this is just my opinion but the amount of nerf sorc threads are out of hand but also convoluted and lack a lot of explanation and are sometimes in the wrong categories, say General eso discussion instead of one of the pvp categories. And in general mag sorcs with skills like mines may just be one of the more frustrating classes to fight against.
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Krayzie✭✭✭✭✭I was killed by a 7.4k implosion yesterdayI'm a PVE roleplayer concerned about my vampires stage 4 skin tone and keep getting load screens so I came here to distract people from major issues with a rant thread about my characters cosmetic appearance.8 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was killed by a 7.4k implosion yesterday
Yeah, but then I’ve also been hit by 8k wrecking blows. I’m not saying that ESO doesn’t need some tweaks when it comes to pvp combat, but that the forums are a freakin train wreck when it comes to talking about mag sorcs. And for the record I’m a stamina only player so I have no particular love for mag sorcs.Edited by Vapirko on September 25, 2017 7:29PM7 -
Krayzie✭✭✭✭✭I was killed by a 7.4k implosion yesterday
Yeah, but then I’ve also been hit by 8k wrecking blows. I’m not saying that ESO doesn’t need some tweaks when it comes to pvp combat, but that the forums are a freakin train wreck when it comes to talking about mag sorcs. And for the record I’m a stamina only player so I have no particular love for mag sorcs.
The general section of the forums is ruled by ignorant, arrogant, angry, irrational PVE roleplayers.
It's littered with people making multiple topics about ridiculous things they want changed and ridiculous suggestions ZoS doesn't even care about, let alone read.
You're better off going to the PVP section of the forum.
People would rather beg ZoS to change how stage 4 vampires look than focus on the unstable state that the game is and has remained for years.
But none of this matters because people continue to throw money at Zenimax for $40 mounts and cosmetic changes.I'm a PVE roleplayer concerned about my vampires stage 4 skin tone and keep getting load screens so I came here to distract people from major issues with a rant thread about my characters cosmetic appearance.5 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I was killed by a 7.4k implosion yesterday
Yeah, but then I’ve also been hit by 8k wrecking blows. I’m not saying that ESO doesn’t need some tweaks when it comes to pvp combat, but that the forums are a freakin train wreck when it comes to talking about mag sorcs. And for the record I’m a stamina only player so I have no particular love for mag sorcs.
How much stam you need to use in a 8K WB? How much in a 8K implosion?
I think sorc is more than OK as a class and gives you a couple interesting options to play it. I don't want any nerf on sorcs, since I think they are perfect just the way they are. But that implies no more buffs, because any buff given to sorcs creates imbalance.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Krayzie✭✭✭✭✭I was killed by a 7.4k implosion yesterday
Yeah, but then I’ve also been hit by 8k wrecking blows. I’m not saying that ESO doesn’t need some tweaks when it comes to pvp combat, but that the forums are a freakin train wreck when it comes to talking about mag sorcs. And for the record I’m a stamina only player so I have no particular love for mag sorcs.
How much stam you need to use in a 8K WB? How much in a 8K implosion?
I think sorc is more than OK as a class and gives you a couple interesting options to play it. I don't want any nerf on sorcs, since I think they are perfect just the way they are. But that implies no more buffs, because any buff given to sorcs creates imbalance.
Sorcs are fine, just stop nerfing other classes like magblade/stamplar into the ground for absolutely no reason
LOL CLOCK WORK CITY AGONY NERFI'm a PVE roleplayer concerned about my vampires stage 4 skin tone and keep getting load screens so I came here to distract people from major issues with a rant thread about my characters cosmetic appearance.5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was killed by a 7.4k implosion yesterday
This statement has merit only if you stack 50k+ health since imlossion requires the target to be below 15% max health.
Context if needed for these comments since most players was probably going to die from the next wind gust if their health is low enough to proc implosion.
Edit: and as someone else pointed out, proper gearing is very beneficial and figuring out how to counter various classes and opponents.Edited by idk on September 25, 2017 7:39PM1 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
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Msorcs are argueably the worst magicka class, if not the single worst class altogether on duels. Besides pet, frost ones of course.3. When people say magicka sorcs are OP, the only case where this may be true is when talking about very good players in an evenly matched situation 1v1.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.3 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't want sorcs to be nerfed. Just stop whipping nightblades please and thanks.
#RevertSiphoningAttacks that was a skill no one complained about.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom4 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't want sorcs to be nerfed. Just stop whipping nightblades please and thanks.
#RevertSiphoningAttacks that was a skill no one complained about.
Exactly this. Except for when mag sorcs shields lasted for 20 seconds or whatever it was, they weren’t ever top of the pvp classes. It was only after other classes got nuked that people started complaining about them.2 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »
In light armor on a non crit implosion will hit for that much. In light armor with Impen a crit can hit for 10k+Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's nothing convoluted about shield stacking dps monsters . It's no mystery or enigma why players are tired of seeing this class at the top of leader boards all the time never getting brought back in line with other classes . It's pretty straightforward .7 -
Malmai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcs are too op since beta they need to be nerfed like DK were to feel the pain. Actually every class was nerfed but Sorcs still faceroll the battlefield.5 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
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top of which boards again??Rohamad_Ali wrote: »There's nothing convoluted about shield stacking dps monsters . It's no mystery or enigma why players are tired of seeing this class at the top of leader boards all the time never getting brought back in line with other classes . It's pretty straightforward .When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was killed by a 7.4k implosion yesterday
Yeah, but then I’ve also been hit by 8k wrecking blows. I’m not saying that ESO doesn’t need some tweaks when it comes to pvp combat, but that the forums are a freakin train wreck when it comes to talking about mag sorcs. And for the record I’m a stamina only player so I have no particular love for mag sorcs.
The general section of the forums is ruled by ignorant, arrogant, angry, irrational PVE roleplayers.
It's littered with people making multiple topics about ridiculous things they want changed and ridiculous suggestions ZoS doesn't even care about, let alone read.
You're better off going to the PVP section of the forum.
People would rather beg ZoS to change how stage 4 vampires look than focus on the unstable state that the game is and has remained for years.
But none of this matters because people continue to throw money at Zenimax for $40 mounts and cosmetic changes.
That's shockingly accurate. Deserved an awesome!Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Rainraven✭✭✭✭✭What nerf sorc threads? How am I missing the nerf sorc threads?!
Or if you mean magsorc mains freaking right out on any thread about anything they think may at some point become a nerf sorc thread... yeah, lot of that.
We're not getting nerfed. Relax.2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Rohamad_Ali what leaderboards specifically? And again I’m not saying they don’t need some balance but just a small amount would make a big difference as we all know. Anyway the purpose of this thread is state a few common unexplained facts that are behind most nerf sorc threads and to try and explain to people that the nerf mag sorc bandwagon is almost purely pvp based. They really don’t need a pve nerf. Honestly I don’t think there easier for vma or anything. I hate running vma with mag builds. The sorc leaderboard generally has the highest scores, but there are a lot of good Stam sorcs out there as well. And they definitely don’t need a nerf.0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Rohamad_Ali what leaderboards specifically? And again I’m not saying they don’t need some balance but just a small amount would make a big difference as we all know. Anyway the purpose of this thread is state a few common unexplained facts that are behind most nerf sorc threads and to try and explain to people that the nerf mag sorc bandwagon is almost purely pvp based. They really don’t need a pve nerf. Honestly I don’t think there easier for vma or anything. I hate running vma with mag builds. The sorc leaderboard generally has the highest scores, but there are a lot of good Stam sorcs out there as well. And they definitely don’t need a nerf.
Hodors world first completion of last patches new trial was almost all sorcs if not all Sorc . It is the go to class in the hardest content . That truth is not an indictment of Hor Hodor or any players using Sorc but a lazer beam pointed at the classes effectiveness over other classes in PVE and PVP .5 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We need more players to be honest with themselves about class balance instead of defending certain classes like some faction or group . They're all just classes and when they are not running better then other classes the health of the game is over all improved for all players . PVE , PVP ... It doesn't matter because it's all ESO , the game we are playing . Nerfing is just as necessary as buffing underperforming classes but the problem the balance team has is ever buffing other classes to compare in some content . The team at ZoS has stated many times they will not separate PVE or PVP balance so both must always be brought into conversation whether players like it or not .Edited by Rohamad_Ali on September 26, 2017 12:28AM5 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mag Sorc in No-CP PVP and PVE are fine
Mag Sorc in CP PVP seem a bit overtuned but well, I can live with that and I dont main one. DK and templar tanky/heal builds seem pretty hard to kill too.
OP has explained pretty well the situation.
When magsorc will be where they were few patches ago, everybody will focus on the next class nerf.
IMHO they could use some PVP CP Shield nerf or no-stackingEdited by Morgul667 on September 26, 2017 12:42AM2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »@Rohamad_Ali what leaderboards specifically? And again I’m not saying they don’t need some balance but just a small amount would make a big difference as we all know. Anyway the purpose of this thread is state a few common unexplained facts that are behind most nerf sorc threads and to try and explain to people that the nerf mag sorc bandwagon is almost purely pvp based. They really don’t need a pve nerf. Honestly I don’t think there easier for vma or anything. I hate running vma with mag builds. The sorc leaderboard generally has the highest scores, but there are a lot of good Stam sorcs out there as well. And they definitely don’t need a nerf.
Hodors world first completion of last patches new trial was almost all sorcs if not all Sorc . It is the go to class in the hardest content . That truth is not an indictment of Hor Hodor or any players using Sorc but a lazer beam pointed at the classes effectiveness over other classes in PVE and PVP .
Yeah but here you may be talking about them being just marginally better because Hodor is going for the top position in the world. I mean one or another class is always going to be a few percent more damage or whatever and you’ll have have some disparity in classes when you get to that level. I do agree that the single target dps and aoe dps could be balanced between stamina and magicka more for sure.0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well some players have multiple classes. I have a sorc. It is one of many.
And imposion is BS.
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Dantaria✭✭✭✭✭
LOLRohamad_Ali wrote: »@Rohamad_Ali what leaderboards specifically? And again I’m not saying they don’t need some balance but just a small amount would make a big difference as we all know. Anyway the purpose of this thread is state a few common unexplained facts that are behind most nerf sorc threads and to try and explain to people that the nerf mag sorc bandwagon is almost purely pvp based. They really don’t need a pve nerf. Honestly I don’t think there easier for vma or anything. I hate running vma with mag builds. The sorc leaderboard generally has the highest scores, but there are a lot of good Stam sorcs out there as well. And they definitely don’t need a nerf.
Hodors world first completion of last patches new trial was almost all sorcs if not all Sorc . It is the go to class in the hardest content . That truth is not an indictment of Hor Hodor or any players using Sorc but a lazer beam pointed at the classes effectiveness over other classes in PVE and PVP .
Yeah but here you may be talking about them being just marginally better because Hodor is going for the top position in the world. I mean one or another class is always going to be a few percent more damage or whatever and you’ll have have some disparity in classes when you get to that level. I do agree that the single target dps and aoe dps could be balanced between stamina and magicka more for sure.
And now a little bit of context here.
Homestead was a patch, where it was one dps class to rule them all. And yes - this class was Sorcerer. People played Sorcs for the whole Homestead basically.
And then there was vHoF - the trial in which incoming damage is high as **** and is also everywhere. As Alcast himself said in his video about HP tank, build made exactly for vHoF (before Equilibrium nerf), 'People are going to take unnecessary damage'.
Mastering vHoF was going to take a while. Even though they had practise on PTS, Hodor in time of first completion was... well... honestly clumsy. They are true masters now, but back then - well. They themselves took a lot of unnecessary damage + mechanics were a bit different.
Now. For 1st world completion they didn't need dps. They needed safe reliable option everyone is comfortable with.
What could that option possibly be, I wonder...
But once all ins and outs of vHoF became clear... Oh wait. Sorcs on leaderboards, you say? Where?
Sorcs are now glorified Offbalance givers and a class you may take for learning new content. Once it's done - bye, sorcs, we only need 1 or 2 of you for Offbalance.
Move from Homestead to HotR already, will you? Sorcs on leaderboards. What a joke.
Edited by Dantaria on September 26, 2017 1:56AMEnglish isn't my native, apologies for any mistakes.5 -
Chronicburn✭✭✭✭Why don't people ask for their own buffs instead of constantly tearing down other classes? Its pathetic and juvenile.1
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templesus✭✭✭✭✭
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Msorcs are argueably the worst magicka class, if not the single worst class altogether on duels. Besides pet, frost ones of course.3. When people say magicka sorcs are OP, the only case where this may be true is when talking about very good players in an evenly matched situation 1v1.
If you honestly truly think that, then it’s just a L2p issue for you. Having played it and dueled some of the best mag sorcs it is clearly at/near the top of the dueling chain on normal builds, especially with mines. Next patch rune cage change may push them to being at the top with unblockable meteor curse frag execute combo. In no way do I think dueling means anything in terms of balance but to say mag sorc is weak at dueling is completely asinine.Edited by templesus on September 26, 2017 7:12AM2 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Chronicburn wrote: »Why don't people ask for their own buffs instead of constantly tearing down other classes? Its pathetic and juvenile.
Buffing everything to make them OP is not a fix for pve if everything got buff dps would be to high making things to easy. Buff every class in pvp same is true. You just can't go around buffing everything when in the most part every class but sorc is close to balance.
Why do tons of work to bring every class up to par with sorcs when you can bring just one class inline with the others1
