Why is game dying.

Orgrimar · September 2017

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

[Edited for bashing]

jlboozer · September 2017

Everyone isn't leaving, I'm still here, and so are millions more...."most" people aren't solely pvp players. You have to mix it up, you're burning yourself out. Go play some pve for a little while

idk · September 2017

My game is as active as ever. Cannot recall the last day I didn't raid. Probably at least a month ago.

Ardaghion · September 2017

Orgrimar wrote: »

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

What are these better options?

[Edited for quote]

idk · September 2017

And we are getting a new trial in a few weeks.

richo262 · September 2017

They are adding PVE content, but that won't last long.

I've spoken about how they could extent the life of PVE so easily adding 100's of hours in each zone in other threads.

As for PVP, I don't really play that, mainly because I can't. Ping is 300 - 400.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · September 2017

Orgrimar wrote: »

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

Well let's look at the history of this game appeasing PvPers who seem to whine no matter what.

90% of the changes that were delivered with Morrowind were to appease PvPers who said Sustain was making PvP boring.

So ZOS nerfed just about everything through the floor.

Approximately 80% of the guild I was in left, looking around at other guilds I knew about it would seem that somewhere around 40% of player left BECAUSE of those changes.

And now the PvPers are whining the game is boring.

How many more "PvP appeasement patches" can the game survive?

Traditionally PvP is a minority demographic in MMORPGs, why would any sane game company seek to balance the game around a minority that are NEVER happy, and lost swathes of the majority who weren't complaining the game is boring?

It makes no sense.

I have never seen any MMORPG where the PvP Minority were ever happy for any length of time, trying to make them happy is an exercise in futility and a waste of corporate resources, not to mention a net loss to revenue streams as people quit fed up of seeing PvE ruined because someone in PvP needs to L2P.

All The Best

[Edited for quote]

Alexandrious · September 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Orgrimar wrote: »

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

Well let's look at the history of this game appeasing PvPers who seem to whine no matter what.

90% of the changes that were delivered with Morrowind were to appease PvPers who said Sustain was making PvP boring.

So ZOS nerfed just about everything through the floor.

Approximately 80% of the guild I was in left, looking around at other guilds I knew about it would seem that somewhere around 40% of player left BECAUSE of those changes.

And now the PvPers are whining the game is boring.

How many more "PvP appeasement patches" can the game survive?

Traditionally PvP is a minority demographic in MMORPGs, why would any sane game company seek to balance the game around a minority that are NEVER happy, and lost swathes of the majority who weren't complaining the game is boring?

It makes no sense.

I have never seen any MMORPG where the PvP Minority were ever happy for any length of time, trying to make them happy is an exercise in futility and a waste of corporate resources, not to mention a net loss to revenue streams as people quit fed up of seeing PvE ruined because someone in PvP needs to L2P.

All The Best

These changes, can you give me the short version of what they did?

[Edited for quote]

Tandor · September 2017

If the game is dying then it must be because too many people are playing it. Certainly a lot more than ever before if my experience across a lot of zones is anything to go by.

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Orgrimar wrote: »

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

Well let's look at the history of this game appeasing PvPers who seem to whine no matter what.

90% of the changes that were delivered with Morrowind were to appease PvPers who said Sustain was making PvP boring.

So ZOS nerfed just about everything through the floor.

Approximately 80% of the guild I was in left, looking around at other guilds I knew about it would seem that somewhere around 40% of player left BECAUSE of those changes.

And now the PvPers are whining the game is boring.

How many more "PvP appeasement patches" can the game survive?

Traditionally PvP is a minority demographic in MMORPGs, why would any sane game company seek to balance the game around a minority that are NEVER happy, and lost swathes of the majority who weren't complaining the game is boring?

It makes no sense.

I have never seen any MMORPG where the PvP Minority were ever happy for any length of time, trying to make them happy is an exercise in futility and a waste of corporate resources, not to mention a net loss to revenue streams as people quit fed up of seeing PvE ruined because someone in PvP needs to L2P.

All The Best

Basicly this.

PVPers will never be satisfied. The game needs to stop catering to them.

[Edited for quote]

DeadlyRecluse · September 2017

It's not dying.

DHale · September 2017

OP please be very specific when you say game is dying. I play on NA PC it does not appear to be dying more packed then ever for me, maybe it is on x box or ps 4. I would not presume to know...

kargen27 · September 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Orgrimar wrote: »

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

Well let's look at the history of this game appeasing PvPers who seem to whine no matter what.

90% of the changes that were delivered with Morrowind were to appease PvPers who said Sustain was making PvP boring.

So ZOS nerfed just about everything through the floor.

Approximately 80% of the guild I was in left, looking around at other guilds I knew about it would seem that somewhere around 40% of player left BECAUSE of those changes.

And now the PvPers are whining the game is boring.

How many more "PvP appeasement patches" can the game survive?

Traditionally PvP is a minority demographic in MMORPGs, why would any sane game company seek to balance the game around a minority that are NEVER happy, and lost swathes of the majority who weren't complaining the game is boring?

It makes no sense.

I have never seen any MMORPG where the PvP Minority were ever happy for any length of time, trying to make them happy is an exercise in futility and a waste of corporate resources, not to mention a net loss to revenue streams as people quit fed up of seeing PvE ruined because someone in PvP needs to L2P.

All The Best

Sustain reduction and all associated changes were made specifically for PvE. The powers that be even put out a statement that pretty much said they wanted to make the vet and group content harder. The changes were in response to people soloing vet group content and how quick groups were doing perfect runs on new trials after release. The One Tamriel changes were for PvE. Champion point changes again for PvE.

It is fun to blame PvP but the truth is most changes were made with PvE in mind. Early in the game it was to make overland, delves and quest lines fights easier. Later it became about making vet content harder. And even later it wa about changing the way PvE groups have to work together for vet content.

[Edited for quote]

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Orgrimar wrote: »

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

Well let's look at the history of this game appeasing PvPers who seem to whine no matter what.

90% of the changes that were delivered with Morrowind were to appease PvPers who said Sustain was making PvP boring.

So ZOS nerfed just about everything through the floor.

Approximately 80% of the guild I was in left, looking around at other guilds I knew about it would seem that somewhere around 40% of player left BECAUSE of those changes.

And now the PvPers are whining the game is boring.

How many more "PvP appeasement patches" can the game survive?

Traditionally PvP is a minority demographic in MMORPGs, why would any sane game company seek to balance the game around a minority that are NEVER happy, and lost swathes of the majority who weren't complaining the game is boring?

It makes no sense.

I have never seen any MMORPG where the PvP Minority were ever happy for any length of time, trying to make them happy is an exercise in futility and a waste of corporate resources, not to mention a net loss to revenue streams as people quit fed up of seeing PvE ruined because someone in PvP needs to L2P.

All The Best

Sustain reduction and all associated changes were made specifically for PvE. The powers that be even put out a statement that pretty much said they wanted to make the vet and group content harder. The changes were in response to people soloing vet group content and how quick groups were doing perfect runs on new trials after release. The One Tamriel changes were for PvE. Champion point changes again for PvE.

It is fun to blame PvP but the truth is most changes were made with PvE in mind. Early in the game it was to make overland, delves and quest lines fights easier. Later it became about making vet content harder. And even later it wa about changing the way PvE groups have to work together for vet content.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

PVE? It was made for PVE? Is that why the entire PVE community rebelled against them while the PVP ones cheered? Is that why most endgame people left in the first wave to be replaced? My ass, these were made for the PVE community.

It's fun to blame PVP because they're usually why the game gets nerfed. Sorry buddy.

[Edited for quote]

Tandor · September 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Orgrimar wrote: »

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

Well let's look at the history of this game appeasing PvPers who seem to whine no matter what.

90% of the changes that were delivered with Morrowind were to appease PvPers who said Sustain was making PvP boring.

So ZOS nerfed just about everything through the floor.

Approximately 80% of the guild I was in left, looking around at other guilds I knew about it would seem that somewhere around 40% of player left BECAUSE of those changes.

And now the PvPers are whining the game is boring.

How many more "PvP appeasement patches" can the game survive?

Traditionally PvP is a minority demographic in MMORPGs, why would any sane game company seek to balance the game around a minority that are NEVER happy, and lost swathes of the majority who weren't complaining the game is boring?

It makes no sense.

I have never seen any MMORPG where the PvP Minority were ever happy for any length of time, trying to make them happy is an exercise in futility and a waste of corporate resources, not to mention a net loss to revenue streams as people quit fed up of seeing PvE ruined because someone in PvP needs to L2P.

All The Best

Basicly this.

PVPers will never be satisfied. The game needs to stop catering to them.

I agree about PvPers never being satisfied. Unfortunately that is the nature of the thing, no matter how many or how few take part in PvP encounters 50% of them will always lose, and they will then blame that on the game rather than their relative skill levels. I understand that losing is boring but that isn't always down to the game.

However, the problem is also one of ZOS's making in that their insistence on having both PvE and PvP balanced around the same skill sets is never going to be a recipe for success. You have to have skills applied differentially between the two playstyles.

Nonetheless, the OP's initial premise is fundamentally wrong. The game is not dying. It's actually going from strength to strength, and if that is based not only on improvements to the game but also a weeding out of the QQ brigade then that isn't automatically a bad thing.

[Edited for quote]

rhapsodious · September 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Orgrimar wrote: »

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

Well let's look at the history of this game appeasing PvPers who seem to whine no matter what.

90% of the changes that were delivered with Morrowind were to appease PvPers who said Sustain was making PvP boring.

So ZOS nerfed just about everything through the floor.

Approximately 80% of the guild I was in left, looking around at other guilds I knew about it would seem that somewhere around 40% of player left BECAUSE of those changes.

And now the PvPers are whining the game is boring.

How many more "PvP appeasement patches" can the game survive?

Traditionally PvP is a minority demographic in MMORPGs, why would any sane game company seek to balance the game around a minority that are NEVER happy, and lost swathes of the majority who weren't complaining the game is boring?

It makes no sense.

I have never seen any MMORPG where the PvP Minority were ever happy for any length of time, trying to make them happy is an exercise in futility and a waste of corporate resources, not to mention a net loss to revenue streams as people quit fed up of seeing PvE ruined because someone in PvP needs to L2P.

All The Best

Sustain reduction and all associated changes were made specifically for PvE. The powers that be even put out a statement that pretty much said they wanted to make the vet and group content harder. The changes were in response to people soloing vet group content and how quick groups were doing perfect runs on new trials after release. The One Tamriel changes were for PvE. Champion point changes again for PvE.

It is fun to blame PvP but the truth is most changes were made with PvE in mind. Early in the game it was to make overland, delves and quest lines fights easier. Later it became about making vet content harder. And even later it wa about changing the way PvE groups have to work together for vet content.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

PVE? It was made for PVE? Is that why the entire PVE community rebelled against them while the PVP ones cheered? Is that why most endgame people left in the first wave to be replaced? My ass, these were made for the PVE community.

It's fun to blame PVP because they're usually why the game gets nerfed. Sorry buddy.

It's both, kinda.

From a PVP perspective, it put a dent in those unkillable, infinite-sustain, high-damage builds, like the nerf to proc sets was aimed to do. From what I understand, they still exist, but they're harder to pull off. I don't PVP much, so if a PVPer wants to correct me there, please feel free.

The PVE perspective is that the devs had an idea of how "hard" they wanted content to be. The content was being steamrolled by efficient groups who could promote infinite sustain while their DPS were wearing full-damage spec gear (now, as someone who runs trials, this was not anything a noob could do - it required a high degree of coordination and synergy). The end result was it made content less steamrollable, coupled with the specific mechanics like every *** thing being a magicka drain in Halls of Fabrication. A lot of people did indeed leave, but a lot of people also adapted. I still hold that this hit middle-of-the-road trials groups the hardest, those who were progressing. The top people are still completing the content, and I don't know many people who would run a vet trial on a casual level. I hope for their sake that those people progressing adapted. ):

PVP is the vocal source of complaints for things that end up affecting PVE, that much is true, but that's because Rakkhat can't complain that he's being trounced. I think the two should still be separately balanced, but... ZOS is determined to keep them in tandem, so meh.

[Edited for quote]

ZOS_KatP · September 2017

Hi all,

Please be sure your posts follow the forum rules, are constructive, and stay relevant to the conversation at hand.

Thanks.

Axoinus · September 2017

Look at OP sig. PS NA.

OP lacks master race status.

/endthread

Rohamad_Ali · September 2017

Population in PVP is scaling down and it would be nice if this next patch fixes some issues like infinite load screens and really low FPS in combat . There are other issues but that alone would be good enough for me to log back in more often . The games PVE audience is doing fine .

Kneighbors · September 2017

Personally I'm sure it's mostly because of "balancing". The experiments, ruined builds with nerfs are the main causes for people losing interest. They had to take different approach. Instead of shaping all the corners into straight line they had to add more curves to it. One of the classes got OP skill? Good, give other classes OP skills.

Look for example at nerf of radiant destruction (21%). Heals were using it in dungeon. It was fun finishing Grobul in DCII right there in the air. It was PURE FUN. It was bug? Yeah! It was OP? Yeah! Give it any name, but it was UBER FUN to do it. Why would you come and remove all these things? Shape it into feature.

clocksstoppe · September 2017

jlboozer wrote: »

millions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

kargen27 · September 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Orgrimar wrote: »

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

Well let's look at the history of this game appeasing PvPers who seem to whine no matter what.

90% of the changes that were delivered with Morrowind were to appease PvPers who said Sustain was making PvP boring.

So ZOS nerfed just about everything through the floor.

Approximately 80% of the guild I was in left, looking around at other guilds I knew about it would seem that somewhere around 40% of player left BECAUSE of those changes.

And now the PvPers are whining the game is boring.

How many more "PvP appeasement patches" can the game survive?

Traditionally PvP is a minority demographic in MMORPGs, why would any sane game company seek to balance the game around a minority that are NEVER happy, and lost swathes of the majority who weren't complaining the game is boring?

It makes no sense.

I have never seen any MMORPG where the PvP Minority were ever happy for any length of time, trying to make them happy is an exercise in futility and a waste of corporate resources, not to mention a net loss to revenue streams as people quit fed up of seeing PvE ruined because someone in PvP needs to L2P.

All The Best

Sustain reduction and all associated changes were made specifically for PvE. The powers that be even put out a statement that pretty much said they wanted to make the vet and group content harder. The changes were in response to people soloing vet group content and how quick groups were doing perfect runs on new trials after release. The One Tamriel changes were for PvE. Champion point changes again for PvE.

It is fun to blame PvP but the truth is most changes were made with PvE in mind. Early in the game it was to make overland, delves and quest lines fights easier. Later it became about making vet content harder. And even later it wa about changing the way PvE groups have to work together for vet content.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

PVE? It was made for PVE? Is that why the entire PVE community rebelled against them while the PVP ones cheered? Is that why most endgame people left in the first wave to be replaced? My ass, these were made for the PVE community.

It's fun to blame PVP because they're usually why the game gets nerfed. Sorry buddy.

[Edited for quote]

Laugh all you want I'm just pointing out why the changes I listed were made. And not that it matters any but I do much more PvE than PvP by quite a margin. Doesn't mean I am going to blame these changes on PvP. I know the members of my PvP guild complain much more about the sustain than the two trial guilds I am in complain. There have been some changes that were meant to address issues in PvP that did have a negative affect on PvE but nowhere near the amount claimed in this thread. The most drastic changes were because of PvE gameplay.

Unfadingsilence · September 2017

Orgrimar wrote: »

Dear @Zos something has to give. The combat in this game is great...yet the pvp is terrible, there's no motivation and there is no competive feeling to battlegrounds or cyrodill [snip]. Please your game needs something big and exciting fast. Everyone's leaving for better options.

Thanks

[Edited for bashing]

What game are you playing? On what platform and server? And what better games are there for xbox??

Olen_Mikko · September 2017

The game isn't dying. Couple updates saved this game imo. (One Tamriel, Morrowind to start with)

Although, if this wasn't Elder scrolls series, ZOS would've [snip] this up long time ago.

[Edited for profanity]

socivL · September 2017

he's playing on the ps4, as am i.
i just returned to the game after a short hiatus.
back in with the full frontal nudity.

mobicera · September 2017

I think there is new blood coming into the game keeping it going just basing this off the amount of low cp/level people I come across. Though about 80-85% of my friends list and basically everyone I ran vet dungeons and trials with have left since morrowind these were PvE players not pvp players. The sustain nerfs and subsequent damage nerfs are not the type of game changing changes that most PvE players actually liked.
Even I find myself logging in less and less, mostly due to the fact that my friends have left and the ps4 vet trial community is just toxic beyond belief leaving me to pug or just solo, neither of which are my ideal way to play an MMO.

Not even really sure why I bothered to write this to be honest as it will change nothing.

iiYuki · September 2017

8.5 million players and over 1 million unique users per month last time I checked, if that's dead I dont know how other games survive.

Orgrimar · September 2017

I've played all the pve in the game 100 times over its old also and lazily done when they copied normal dungeons and said they were new veteran dungeons.