Can we just get like ONE questline where we're the bad guy?

ThePrinceOfBargains · September 2017

I know we pretty much get this with darkbrotherhood, slicing people's throats and all, but

1. That questline was short, unambitious, and uninspired.

2. While you are playing the bad guy in a murderous faction, you're treated more like wronged victims being picked apart throughout the quest instead of villains. It's to the point where the Order of the Hour seems just as bad in comparison when they should be the good guys. Too many games tend do this when they let you play as a villain. You're a villainous protagonist, but they make the main antagonist a total hypocrite in some way. Often times, they're as bad as you or worse.

I'd like at least one questline where we start out as a low-ranking villain of some sort and work out way up to Evil Overlord. This is one of the few things SWTOR got right that so few games ever do.

Moloch1514 · September 2017

Mages guild if you make a certain choice at the end?

Castagere · September 2017

The Morrowind content has a lot of quest where you have to break in to houses and steal stuff.

rhapsodious · September 2017

If you never do Bleakrock, then everyone gets to peacefully live their lives, free from danger.

If you do, families are torn apart, a town is razed, and it's all your fault.

You monster.

The issue is they need to be able to open up other questlines, so with the exception of clearly ended questlines such as the main quest and the guild questlines, a lot of the decisions aren't really... final. Or the NPCs seem to forget that they said they'd NEVER FORGIVE YOU for this. (Boy am I happy Naryu still isn't mad at me though.)

I think they try to do this through the gray-morality quests, like a lot of the split quests in Coldharbour. But since they're just side-quests, you don't hear much from them. You could say a lot of the dungeon-based quests are along the lines of "Version 1: You do the villain's dirty work | Version 2: You clean up after the mess you made (Fungal Grotto, Banished Cells, Darkshade Caverns)".

It'd be nice if the DLCs gave you more lasting decisions, though, since those stories are fairly self-contained. There's a few that are basically "kill this guy or don't" but it doesn't really affect much beyond not seeing that character anymore.

platonicidealgirlfriend · September 2017

"The Order of The Hour should be good guys" is the worst possible take you can have on DB. The whole point was a Nietzschean "stare into the void and the void stares back" kind of deal, where The Order is actually a violent and repressive organization whose attempt to squash the DB reflected primarily their own self interests veiled in the guise of public good. Making them good guys collapses what nuance the questline had and makes it some Saturday morning cartoon nonsense.

ETA: The glaring thematic issue with ESO's main quest isn't only that you're rail-roaded into being the good guy, but that you're rail-roaded into this uncritically even though all of the main questlines involve consolidating the power of a single ruler or small group of powerful people, which is in and of itself a violent act even if it's arguably necessary to muster a cogent defense against the Imperials and Molag Bal. Equally as offensive as your lack of choice in, say, helping King Emmerich or feeding a dagger between his teeth or whatever is that no one thought to critically examine what helping Emmerich subdue his competitors (Or Ayrenn subdue dissident Bosmer, or Almalexia consolidate her theocratic hold on Morrowind, for example) means for people who aren't them.

For whatever shortcomings may be in the DB plot it absolutely dives into a gray and gray morality set where your decision to work with the DB to subdue the Order isn't a bad or good thing, but simply what you and the DB have to do to ensure their own survival against an organization that has decided that the two of you cannot coexist.

Drakkdjinn · September 2017

Mages guild.

/thread

ThePrinceOfBargains · September 2017

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Mages guild.

/thread

Don't know why this keeps getting brought up. That's a betrayal at the end of the quest for most of it, you're working against Sheogorath. I'm talking about a full on antagonistic quest.

platonicidealgirlfriend wrote: »

"The Order of The Hour should be good guys" is the worst possible take you can have on DB. The whole point was a Nietzschean "stare into the void and the void stares back" kind of deal, where The Order is actually a violent and repressive organization whose attempt to squash the DB reflected primarily their own self interests veiled in the guise of public good. Making them good guys collapses what nuance the questline had and makes it some Saturday morning cartoon nonsense.

ETA: The glaring thematic issue with ESO's main quest isn't only that you're rail-roaded into being the good guy, but that you're rail-roaded into this uncritically even though all of the main questlines involve consolidating the power of a single ruler or small group of powerful people, which is in and of itself a violent act even if it's arguably necessary to muster a cogent defense against the Imperials and Molag Bal. Equally as offensive as your lack of choice in, say, helping King Emmerich or feeding a dagger between his teeth or whatever is that no one thought to critically examine what helping Emmerich subdue his competitors (Or Ayrenn subdue dissident Bosmer, or Almalexia consolidate her theocratic hold on Morrowind, for example) means for people who aren't them.

For whatever shortcomings may be in the DB plot it absolutely dives into a gray and gray morality set where your decision to work with the DB to subdue the Order isn't a bad or good thing, but simply what you and the DB have to do to ensure their own survival against an organization that has decided that the two of you cannot coexist.

I know what the point was. My point is that it was only done that way to water down the reality of us playing villains. Instead of it being us working against the good guys or at least a faction that could be perceived that way, we're put up against this extremist, hypocritical group that makes us look better by comparison for the simple fact that we're honest about it. This kind of story waters down the experience of playing as a villain.

ArchMikem · September 2017

Sorry. From what I understand the Elder Scrolls Protagonist will always be, at worst, a Morally Degenerate Hero.

KochDerDamonen · September 2017

True to life, pretty much any 'villainous' organization at least sees themselves as the good guys, no? It's not like the kids' shows where some folks dressed in all-black get together, rub their hands menacingly and cackle about all the ebil they're totally gonna spill out on the world by stealing icecream or something.

LordGavus · September 2017

What could be cool is if they ever bring in a necromancy skill line, part of obtaining it would be a quest line against the mages guild.

Jusey1 · September 2017

I actually like the DBH storyline... Didn't expect one of the plot twists in it and found it to be hilarious (that part was probably my favorite) but yeah, it isn't fully evil. Just bad enough to be a good go to, but not full-blown evil...

Honestly, I don't think we will ever get a truly evil questline. That isn't what The Elder Scrolls is about. It has always been more about fighting against greater powers than yourself, usually Daedric Princes. So having a main storyline where you're are the bad guy just doesn't fit with the main theme of the series as a whole... It's has always been, and probably will always be, about a random hero of destiny that goes up against impossible and godly odds that are against them in almost every single way, be it a very powerful mage with allies from Oblivion (Jagnar Tharn) or even a Daedric Prince himself. That's just always has been the main theme of the main story in Elder Scrolls...

The evil stuff are usually kept in side content, such as Dark Brotherhood, or random side quests... Which I can see us having some evil side content but never can see it as a main story piece of content.

idk · September 2017

So, you do not want a quest line. You want a long drawn out quest line since you essentially start out with the dark quest line we have and say it was to short.

The answer is probably no. You mention a DLC size zone and it was not sufficient. I doubt Zos is going to make a chapter like that and if they did my guess is it would not be meet what OP wants.

Cpt_Teemo · September 2017

You want to become the evil of evils?