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Champion system confusion

Octopuss
Octopuss
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There are numerous passives I can take, and I am not really sure how does it work.
For example, I can increase damage with "direct damage"and light/heavy attacks. And then the extra elemental defences, physical etc. What's the difference? Should I level all of these?
  • itsfatbass
    itsfatbass
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    In this day and age, there can many varying ways to configure your cp. It's more about what role you're playing, what traits and gear you're using and some other factors as well. Alcast's website is a good start to at least give you direction, but ultimately you will want to make everything fully optimized for your build.
    Edited by itsfatbass on September 16, 2017 6:49PM
    ~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~
  • davey1107
    davey1107
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    The other poster is right, alcasthq.com is a great resource. You could copy his allotments for your class until,you get the hang of it. However, to get you started let's try some basic advice.

    Diminishing returns: the first point you spend in a line is about 10x as powerful as the 100th in that same line. You get less and less per point as you spend more in the line, so spreading them out a little is advisable. For each color, think about 2-3 passives you want and spend in those as you earn.

    Consider frequency: the most powerful passives are ones you'll use more. For example, "increase the damage of any magic attack by 5%" is more powerful than "increase damage of your light/heavy attacks by 25%." Some of the specialized ones sound good, but aren't because there are other options that give you more assistance in the long run.

    Direct damage: the game has a couple of damage types, direct, AOEs and DOTs. In short, direct damage is anything that's not the other two. Longer explanation, its damage that occurs when you specifically target a single enemy and proc and ability that damages them in a lump sum. Examples: The destro ultimate is an AOE...I don't target anyone, I just rain down a ridiculous amount of fire in an area. So it doesn't get any boost from direct damage buffs. Snipe (bow) IS direct damage. I pick a target then hit them in a lump sum. It would be buffed. Some abilities are hybrid, like bow's poison inject or templar's reflective light. These abilities start with a targeted direct damage lump sum, then deal addl damage over time. If I have a buff for direct damage in the CP tree, the initial hit would be buffed but the subsequent DOT would not.

    Elemental defense/offense: in the game everything falls into the magic or stam category. Phyisical, poison and disease is stamina based. These are boosted via physical penetration and mitigated via physical resistance. (Or by CPs that specifically mention physical, poison or disease). The magic counterparts are magic, flame, frost and shock damage, boosted by spell penetration and mitigated by spell resistance.


    Some general advice in the trees:

    Green: this line is largely about recovery in the lover. You'll be spending a lot in health, stam and magic recovery, with your focus on your fighting resource. This is where you can focus for your first 300ish CPs. You can get up to 15% more regen in each...I tend to max my toons at 75 CPs, where you get 14% regen. I don't tend to find it helpful to spend another 25 just for 1% more magic recovery. Use this line to boost your fighting resource, health, then the alt respircemif you need it. Invest in the other two trees down the line, in whatever is useful for the toon.

    Red: defense tree. Hardy and elemental defender are superstars here. One mitigates incoming magic attacks,,the other is for stamina. Level these together, with a long term goal of 50-60 in each. If you're a stam toon, you're definitely working toward Unchained. The third super passive is Ironclad, reducing direct damage. This is any hit that's targeting directly at you...so most damage in the game. Work this up with the other two. Thick skinned can get a few points to reduce DOT damage. I generally mostly avoid the armor weight passives...they aren't as valuable as the others listed.

    Blue: damage! Magic users look to the apprentice, stam the ritual. They're counterbalanced so I'll list the two variants...you'll pick one or the other based on the toon. You're going to focus on elemental expert / mighty to boost all your outgoing damage, looking for 60+ points here in the long term. Level this with elfborn / precise strikes to boost crit damage...the more of a critical build you're dealing with, the more you can put into this. Magic users will want to focus on working toward arcane well, especially melee close quarter fighters like magplars and mag DKs.

    You'll also put some in Master at Arms and Thaumaturge, depending on build. Thaumaturge boosts DOTs, which is self explanatory. The more DOTs the toon uses, the more you'll put here. Master at Arms boosts direct damage...that's any hit where you specifically target an enemy. That's a lot of abilities, so you'll be spending 40+ points here for most builds, ultimately.

    Hope this helps. Let me know if you have questions.

  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
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    davey1107 wrote: »
    ...
    Hope this helps. Let me know if you have questions.
    Ok, so can we say that +direct damage and +damage over time are like top tier bonuses, and the rest are subcategories of sorts that all benefit from either of them?
    And the same for defensive ones, obviously.

    Let's take my sorcerer as an example.
    In The Apprentice, I took Elemental Expert, because most of my attacks are/will be of shock type. This however is a "subcategory" of both direct damage and dot, so I am most probably looking at raising Master at Arms from The Atronach and Thaumaturge from The Ritual. I might put something into Staff Expert from The Atronach too, because unlike with my templar, I use regular attacks quite often.
    What I am not so sure about is how much of an additional bonus is raising either of those elemental damage types on top of direct damage/dot.
    From the defensive ones, I will obviously take Ironclad from The Steed, but again, I have no idea whether to boost it further (if it works that way) by putting points into Hardy and Elemental Defender from The Lady.
    Does it work by adding extra percentage on top of say Ironclad, meaning, if I have +10% in Ironclad and +10% in Hardy, I get 10.1% (10% +10% of the first 10%) damage reduction if I am attacked by a weapon?
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    The diminishing returns aspect of the Champion System means that these choices are easier to make than you think they would be. You will never max out a Star, well, probably never max out a star. For one or two, you might put in 76 points, but for most, you will put in 48 to 62 points. So, when you have 660 to spend, you will have enough points to cover direct damage, DOT's and elemental damage to a good beneficial amount of bonus. Sure, in the beginning focus on Direct or DoT's depending on what you use for skills, but just know at some point, your going to stop spending points in those two categories.

    As always, when somewhere below 300 CPs focus more on the passives you unlock rather than the overall effect of the points, then from 300 to 660 start worrying about what each star does. Then, when you are at 660, spend the 3000 gold and respec to some optimal overall strategy that works for your build, not some streamers build.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
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    You can put 100 points into every star, right? So are you saying that typically the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle?
  • Illurian
    Illurian
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    Octopuss wrote: »
    You can put 100 points into every star, right? So are you saying that typically the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle?

    Check out Alcast.hq - he has very informative posts and guides to follow. There isn't really a set rule for the "sweet spot". Depending on which role you are looking for and which node you are talking about, you might even want to put in 100 points in that single node.

    What you should pay attention to, however, are jump points. Read more about them here: https://alcasthq.com/eso-championpoints-jumppoints/
    Edited by Illurian on September 18, 2017 12:31PM
    Kiss the chaos.
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
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    Octopuss wrote: »
    You can put 100 points into every star, right? So are you saying that typically the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle?


    look at elemental expert for example. 56 points gets you %12 total value. You have to put 44 more points in it to reach %15. That's CP that could be used for something else better than an extra %3 gain.
  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
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    Ahh, the jump points. I get it. THAT's very useful.
  • dyn0m1k3
    dyn0m1k3
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    I've made a google docs spreadsheet if you want to play around with champion point distribution: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IpoH482KKvyK-V4QHmum1rh-BcfCSI4JrqV1PSclg-g/edit?usp=sharing

    It doesn't tell you the % increases for each level but it does highlight which passives you'll get and the required champion level...
    Xbox Series X EU Server GT: dyn0m1k3
  • SugaComa
    SugaComa
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    Octopuss wrote: »
    You can put 100 points into every star, right? So are you saying that typically the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle?

    This is just an example

    But 72 points in one star may give you for arguments sake 14%

    Now to get it to 15% you need to but in 28 more points

    Why 28points

    Well
    75 points takes you to 14.3%
    80 points takes you to 14.47%
    85 points to 14.69%
    90 points to 14.82%
    95 to 14.92
    96 to 14.94
    97 to 14.96
    98 to 14.98
    99 to 14.99

    The game rounds down ... So 72 to 99 are actually only worth 14%

    Effectively the last 25 points are worth 1%

    But the first 25 points may have gotten you 9% increase

    This is what is meant by diminishing returns

    More you spend in smart place less value you get for them

    Spread your points accordingly and only just break the percentage ... If you don't go up a whole percent you might be better investing in a new star you've not considered simply because it offers better value


    Sweet spot is different per star


    Some it's 27, other 43, others 72

    Play around and see
    Edited by SugaComa on September 21, 2017 7:02PM
  • davey1107
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    Ok, so can we say that +direct damage and +damage over time are like top tier bonuses?

    That's a good way of putting it. For each offensive/defensive passive you can think of it like this...given what it does, what is it's total contribution to your character. I pulled up my magsorc so we can use the same CPs to compare.

    I have 60 points in elemental expert, the best offensive passive, which increases magic based damage by 12.57%. Everything he hits with does magic damage, so this passive increases my dps by 12.57%. I have 60 in elfborn, increasing his critical damage by 20.98%. However, he only has a 50% crit rating (he doesn't, but let's dumb down the math, lol). Therefore, these 60 CPs buy me 20.98% x 50% = 10.49% dps. I get a little less out of these points. Over in Master at Arms I have 60 for 20.98% to direct damage. This is harder to calculate, but let's estimate I deal 75% of my damage via direct damage, so this passive gives me 20.98 X 0.75 = 15.7% more dps. These stack. So if I crit with a direct damage attack, all three apply. Let's ignore that math...it's complicated.

    This might make it seem complicated to choose passives, but it's not really. Like Nestor said, the current system has massively diminishing returns as you spend more in the line. The 60 points in element expert gets me 12.57%. 75 would buy 14% - just 1.43% for all fifteen points. Then for another 25 points you can max it at 100 for 15%. So unlike the old days, where players would stack everything in one passive as they earned them, now you can spread them around more, aiming to work the 3-4 best lines to 50-70 CPs each.

    So you'll want to level the "best" passives in a rotation...some in element expert, then one in elfborn, then one in Master at Arms, then back to element expert. The only thing to avoid (generally) is specialized passives, like increasing staff light/heavy attacks. I could spend 10 points in staff expert for that, increasing that damage by 6.7%...but my playstyle is ~5% of my damage from those, so 6.7% x .05 = .3375% dps is not worth the points.

    Now that I've bored everyone with lots of percent figures, I'll make it all moot by saying that for the most part a player earning CPs for the first time can just stick to the best passives (or follow Alcast's guides) the whooooooole way to the top. Once you get up in the 600's you might decide the character wants to specialize in certain things, and reconfigure. But you should be able to accumulate most of your points before this is warranted.
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