WARNING: This reply is very long and detailed.

Dracofyre wrote: »

as i was gathering for crafting, and some players, not sure if possible botters or might be "grief-play" to annoy other players.

what really happen, it stop me from collecting materials and animation stop or cancelled, and i move on to other nodes and tried few times, all i see "greyed" "E" and no animations, and tried other nodes nearby, nothing collected unless i make combat move or engage in fight, or head for water to swim to reset. then i was fine to gather again, and then another player run up to me on speed to cause me glitch again as they took materials from nodes.

Collisions
(1) When there is a "collision" between your character collecting from a node and another player's character collecting from the same node, you should hear an audio cue "ka-bonk". Sometimes an error message is displayed in the upper right corner of the screen: "Someone else is using that." The message appears after the other player's use of the Interactive Prompt to gather the item has been processed, and the game client displayed a dialog to show that player -- not you -- what the node contains (the dialog is shown only if the other player is not using Autoloot).

(2) For the next node that your character attempts to gather, you must press the Interactive Prompt key ("E" by default) at least twice before the game server will process your input.

(3) After two consecutive collisions (one after another), then you must press the Interactive Prompt key at least three or four times before the game server will process your input on the next node.

(4) In my experience, if there are three or more consecutive collisions, then usually I must log-out of the character and log-in to the character again to restore the ability to gather anything. Else, I suppose that the player can take the other actions that you described to restore the character's ability to gather.

That said, I do not know whether the outcomes for "collisions" were intended in the design, or are the result of some oversight or of a coding mistake(s). All I know is what I've learned from experience.

Timing
What you see on the display screen is often not the actual, entire situation. At any given time, any two players seldom see exactly the same thing simultaneously displayed by their respective computers.

(5) When another player arrives and gathers from a node after you have already pressed the key for the Interactive Prompt to gather it, then the most likely reason is that their network latency is significantly lower than yours.

(6) That means the game server receives the other player's input faster than it receives your input, and the other player receives their output faster than you receive yours. The lower latency advantage is enhanced when the frame rate for the display on their computer is faster than the frame rate on yours, because they will see their output from the game server before you see your output from the game server. As a result, they will see the spawned node before you see it.

(7) So, you do not see the other player's character arrive at the node until after your character has arrived and you have pressed the Interactive Prompt key to gather the material. Perhaps the other player's character arrived first. Regardless, they pressed the Interactive Prompt on their keyboard first, or even after you pressed it on yours. The server is likely to receive their input before yours, so they will gather the material instead of you. But sometimes your input be processed first and your character will gather the material instead of theirs.

What I describe above are the ordinary situations in which most "collisions" occur. Such "collisions" are inevitable in a multi-player game designed in the way which The Elder Scrolls Online, and most other MMORPGs, are designed. I've lost two or three "collisions" in a row, but gathered the material when two or three more "collisions" apparently occurred.

Moving Fast & Collecting Fast
Be aware, a character that has a large amount of Maximum Stamina can sprint for a relatively long distance -- especially with some ability and/or gear buffs that reduce Stamina usage and/or increase replacement. Combine that with the Rapid Maneuver ability, and a character can leave everyone else -- except a mounted character -- in the dust.

Also be aware, there is a Champion Point node in the Tower (?) which reduces the character's gathering time by 50%. Combine that with Autoloot, and a character can gather very fast indeed. However, in my experience, since the most recent changes to the Champion Point system, the node that reduces gathering time by 50% has become unreliable. Often, my character obviously does not gather more quickly than the character otherwise gathers. (If the ZOS developers ever "fix" anything without also breaking it, then please let me know.)

Nonetheless, ZOS states in the Morrowind patch notes that they implemented a limit, so that the most which a character can have their speed buffed is now 100% of standard speed while running or walking. I don't know whether that limit includes a benefit of any armor set that increases movement speed and/or decreases the Stamina cost. On the whole, now a character cannot move on foot faster than a mount can sprint or can move normally -- if the rider has enough lessons. (How well this limit is applied to bots in practice is an open question.)

Regardless, a character must stop moving in order to collect material from a node. In my experience, pressing the key bound to the Interactive Prompt will cause my character to stop moving. If my character is mounted, pressing the Interactive Prompt key sometimes also causes my character to dismount after stopping and enables the character to Autoloot the node. Else, I must press the Interactive Prompt key again after the character dismounts.

Dracofyre wrote: »

was this new form of grief play? or new odd bug? and why other players run up to me as i am in motion for gatherings, i have seen super fast click as they go, without stopping to gather, all i see them just run run click run run, not one pause to stop to gather. when i tried running as i click on nodes and collect window went away as ungathered and i have to move back in to finish to stay close.

Rest assured, I know just what you mean, it happens to me frequently.

Camping
First, note that there is no rule that forbids a player's character from standing near a node where material spawns, collecting it when it does spawn, then waiting at the same location for the node to spawn again. This practice is called "camping". As far as I know, it does not violate the ZOS Terms of Service. But automating the gathering process while camping is prohibited (see below).

Griefing & Harshing
A player does not have any way to know whether another player has already accessed a node. They can only attempt to gather the material.

When a player chooses to "grief" other players, their character waits near a node where material spawns. After the material appears, the player waits until another player's character approaches, then quickly presses the Interactive Prompt key to collect it. That can cause a collision "ka-bonk" for the other player.

Also, since the typical "griefer" does not enable Autoloot, the game client displays a dialog to show them what the node contains when their character accesses it. However, the griefer waits until another player attempts to gather the material, so "Someone else is using that." is displayed to them. Then the griefer presses the key to accept the material and gather it.

Usually the other player does not intend to "grief" anyone. They might be "camping" on the node. Or they might be called away from the keyboard while their character stands near the node with the collection dialog displayed. Or the other player just happens to press the Interactive Prompt key as your character approaches, and either the dialog is displayed for them or their character Autoloots the node. Regardless, the other player might not even be aware of your character at all.

Automated Input ("Botting")
Again, even with Autoloot enabled, a character must stop moving to gather spawned material. When it is clear that a player character does not stop, yet Autoloots spawned material, then they are evidently "botting". Often such characters move at very fast speeds, and may be mounted with Rapid Maneuver in effect.

One common form of "botting" is that a live player controls the character. They either use a "keystroke macro" utility, run a "Lua script" in the /command Chat window input line, or use an add-on. The automated procedure is usually executed when the player presses a bound key or mouse-button), (a) to use the Interactive Prompt for the node, which stops the character from moving, (b) the Autoloot feature gathers the material, then (c) the player moves the character away.

A common addition to this form includes dismounting from a mount, obtaining and using the Interactive Prompt for the node, Autolooting the node, then summoning the mount, so that the character can quickly move to the next available spawn.

The least common form is that the entire process of moving the character from node-to-node and collecting any spawned material is automated, following a pre-defined route which often eventually returns to the node where the character began. A mount might be used, or the character might simply run as fast as possible on foot, or sprint.

Conclusion
Experience is your best teacher. "Collisions" among player characters while they gather materials are inevitable. Some might occur as a result of griefing or as a result of botting. Learn how to optimize the activity of "pharming" for materials so you will know what it is possible for a player to do without "cheating". Pay careful attention to what other player characters are doing. After a while, it becomes relatively easy to recognize whether a player is probably using a bot, or whether the player character is a bot.

When you honestly believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, that either a player is using a "bot" to gather materials, or that the entire procedure is automated, then take a screenshot of the character at a node. It will show the character's name, and the user-name for the account, among other things. Use either the < F1 > key, or enter the /bug command in the Chat window input line, and select Submit Feedback. Choose the Exploit option on the first drop-down, Report Player on the next drop-down, then describe what you have seen. Be sure to use the checkbox on the form to attach the screenshot.

ZOS will evaluate your report, and investigate when they decide that the player could be "botting" (which violates the Terms of Service). The investigator can, of course, find that there is no clear evidence that the player is using a bot. Else, the player might be banned from the game and their account is closed. Or the player might receive a warning to stop doing what they are doing, or they will be banned if they continue "botting".
__________

If you find any errors in my explanation(s), then please feel free to let me know. TESO is a complex game to play, and a complex game to design and implement. Note that I am not a member of the ZOS development team or an employee or agent of ZOS. I am simply a retired programmer, systems analyst, technical writer, and information systems manager.

Dracofyre wrote: »

thank you for that info, it is interesting read. ....

You're welcome.

Dracofyre wrote: »

yes, i get dismounded when the action kick in, what i saw, they hadnt and kept on moving as node vanish before striking were made, and got me glitched.
yes, it took me few attempts on other nodes trying to shake it off. sometimes it didnt and sometime it cleared.

while i watched others, along the path where nodes were in sight, they vanished as they pass by, not on the horse, just rapid speed without stop to gather.
as you said, have to be very close and stand for few seconds to claim the materials, as i look and wonder how they do that keeping in motion as they gather.

From your descriptions, I believe that you have been seeing player characters which are at least partially controlled by an add-on (or other automated method), and probably some of them are entirely controlled by an add-on, i.e., they are "robots".

Personally, I have no knowledge of the ESO Application Programming Interface (API). The API is a set of instructions which are used by add-on programmers (a) to obtain data from the game server via the game client, and (b) to send instructions to the game server, such as telling it where to display the add-on's output on the User Interface. I learned how to program with Lua (the programming language that virtually all games use for add-ons), while maintaining and improving an add-on for "World of Warcraft"(by Blizzard Entertainment), one which someone else had originally designed.

So, exactly how any ESO "bots" work, or might work, I cannot say. One thing that I do know is that program code is executed far faster than any human being can push keyboard keys and mouse buttons. A robot ("bot") can gather material from a node so fast that it appears to the observer that the character did not stop moving to gather the material. It is even more amazingly fast when the "bot" also controls movement of the character.

In the beginning, the "World of Warcraft" API was so full-featured that a skilled programmer could write an add-on that was able to do everything that a player could do (but much faster). So they could actually develop an add-on that would play the game for them with very little supervision and input from the player in person. Since they could, some of them did.

Whether the "Elder Scrolls Online" API has features that enable a programmer to move a player character, I do not know for sure. From what I have seen, I suspect that, at least, it has had some in the past which might have since been removed. Even if it does not have such features, a player whose character is aided by automating some parts of a process can gain a significant advantage.

Regardless, in my experience, nothing good comes from having such features. They are always abused by programmer-players who have no sense of fair play, and believe that anything which the software allows them to do is acceptable to do.

Which is to say, API features that enable bots to be created aren't the problem. The problem is that programmer-players will use them to create bots. It isn't a technical problem, it is a human behavior problem.

I have experienced all of this and yes, my view is that latency and/or 'response time' is the underyling cause.

I often wait close to a minute for completed Alik'r dolmens to even display the chests. After which the boss corpse collapses.

With regard to people leaving chests incomplete, they assume that someone will clear and reset it, so that when they come back a second time, it is done. The real hurt here is losing the XP from picking the lock.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Actually, I have found that I just need to move to let me retry to click the same or another resource node, but this is with gamepad mode. Perhaps gamepad mode works better than keyboard in this way?
....
I'm tired of competing for resource nodes anyway. It's not fun at all to have pvp in my pve soup.

Most likely, the player input from a gamepad is processed by a different function(s) than the function(s) which process player input from a keyboard. They could be better at handling "collisions" so that the input from the player(s) who cannot collect from that node does not affect their character's ability to collect from a different node.

Although I understand and sympathize with your other complaints, they introduce "topic drift".

The current "resource gathering" model is the easiest to design and implement. In fact, it is probably just a copy of the source code used for the same feature in another game(s) -- perhaps with some modifications to enable it to "work" with the rest of the game host software. The resources may be different, but that is just a matter of data content, not of processing it.

saw that too, Phairdon, you not alone when encountering vanishing nodes just before harvesting distance.