Casual-Nolife Balance

Vimora · September 2017

For those of you who haven't heard, maintenance has been extended by approx. 2 hours for EU. It seems like Mondays are basically eff'd for nolifers in EU these days as they tend to extend well into the afternoon. This gave me a thought about casual-nolife balance, though. It might seem like nothing, but seeing as how a lot of major MMOs fail to recognise the importance of this balance, it might be worth discussing.

Here is my definition for the terms:

Casual: has real life, plays casually 5-10 hours a week, has roughly the same goals in-game as everybody else.
Nolifer: chooses to spend their freetime in-game, has a lot of time to play on a daily basis.

So I think ESO does an awesome job at maintaining a balance between the numbers of casual and nolifers in-game. Both are equally important for the game to prosper. Casuals play less but they have more money to spend. Nolife have less money to spend but they make sure there's always a lot of people in-game, people to play with. What ESO does well is it provides a lot of almost equally attractive activities to do in-game with balanced rewards in terms of time-efficiency, but also you do not have to play too much to be successful, considering acceptable gear is relatively quick and easy to come by, with superior gear being only slightly better.

ESO is also one of the very few games that is not p2w. So I applaud the devs for doing all of these things right and hope that it won't change much in the future.

The_Protagonist · September 2017

Agreed, I really hope that this game remains healthy.

Although I am a little worried as monetization is slowly but surely creeping into the game, more blatantly with Clown Crates and then Housing items in Crown Store

Mureel · September 2017

Vimora wrote: »

For those of you who haven't heard, maintenance has been extended by approx. 2 hours for EU. It seems like Mondays are basically eff'd for nolifers in EU these days as they tend to extend well into the afternoon. This gave me a thought about casual-nolife balance, though. It might seem like nothing, but seeing as how a lot of major MMOs fail to recognise the importance of this balance, it might be worth discussing.

Here is my definition for the terms:

Casual: has real life, plays casually 5-10 hours a week, has roughly the same goals in-game as everybody else.
Nolifer: chooses to spend their freetime in-game, has a lot of time to play on a daily basis.

So I think ESO does an awesome job at maintaining a balance between the numbers of casual and nolifers in-game. Both are equally important for the game to prosper. Casuals play less but they have more money to spend. Nolife have less money to spend but they make sure there's always a lot of people in-game, people to play with. What ESO does well is it provides a lot of almost equally attractive activities to do in-game with balanced rewards in terms of time-efficiency, but also you do not have to play too much to be successful, considering acceptable gear is relatively quick and easy to come by, with superior gear being only slightly better.

ESO is also one of the very few games that is not p2w. So I applaud the devs for doing all of these things right and hope that it won't change much in the future.

Your 2 definitions are too broad in scope to be realistic.

Huyen · September 2017

99% casual, 1% no-life, who make money from posting videos on the internet of themselfs playing.

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

At the end of the day, I do not think this game strikes a good balance. At all.

Mostly because the games PVE system was a hastily converted from a PVP system, and as far as the dungeon balance has gone, ZOS keeps trying to appease the no-lifer populace by increasing the time and DPS barrier it takes to complete these dungeons.

They used to be easy enough to pug in reason. Now, design focus has shifted to hardcore content, and PVP content. The casual audience hasn't been a priority on a design or balance level since Homestead.

Fact is, the Hardcore/No-Lifer/whatever you wish to call them have been steadily pushing for more privlidge, more change in balance to suit them. Now, it's changed the game in an irrevokible way with the sustain changes, which have killed interest and made the system harder to get into, despite the whole 'raise the floor, lower the ceiling' tripe they trotted out.

Vimora · September 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

At the end of the day, I do not think this game strikes a good balance. At all.

Mostly because the games PVE system was a hastily converted from a PVP system, and as far as the dungeon balance has gone, ZOS keeps trying to appease the no-lifer populace by increasing the time and DPS barrier it takes to complete these dungeons.

They used to be easy enough to pug in reason. Now, design focus has shifted to hardcore content, and PVP content. The casual audience hasn't been a priority on a design or balance level since Homestead.

I can't argue with that. I think DLC dungeons are a nightmare to PUG.

LadyNalcarya · September 2017

Ehh I've been playing this game for a while and only met a few actual nolifers (but even then I'm not sure if its ok to call them "nolifers" as this word is often used as derogatory term). The majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are normal people with real lives, jobs, families etc. Assuming that someone who has more gold or dps than you "has no life" is rude. Some people are just more dedicated to their hobbies, and its normal.
So yeah... I really dont know what youre talking about. I mean, I understand what you're trying to say, but spreading stereotypes only divides the community and alienates people.

Dexter411 · September 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

At the end of the day, I do not think this game strikes a good balance. At all.

Mostly because the games PVE system was a hastily converted from a PVP system, and as far as the dungeon balance has gone, ZOS keeps trying to appease the no-lifer populace by increasing the time and DPS barrier it takes to complete these dungeons.

They used to be easy enough to pug in reason. Now, design focus has shifted to hardcore content, and PVP content. The casual audience hasn't been a priority on a design or balance level since Homestead.

Fact is, the Hardcore/No-Lifer/whatever you wish to call them have been steadily pushing for more privlidge, more change in balance to suit them. Now, it's changed the game in an irrevokible way with the sustain changes, which have killed interest and made the system harder to get into, despite the whole 'raise the floor, lower the ceiling' tripe they trotted out.

Why is it so wrong to have endgame challenging content that only few will complete.
MMO needs this. What if we had only content that 90% of people can faceroll(other 10% are people spamming bash on bosses and raging they have low dps)?
From what I remember they only lowered the ceiling, they did not raise the floor(crit multiplayers nerf) and what happened?
People lost what they were working for. Some left and some still found a way to go back on top.

You can solo most 4 man vet dungeons and You think it is ok? and they should keep making content like that?

I could not care less about PvP.

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ehh I've been playing this game for a while and only met a few actual nolifers. The majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are normal people with real lives, jobs, families etc. Assuming that someone who has more gold or dps than you "has no life" is rude. Some people are just more dedicated to their hobbies, and its normal.
So yeah... I really dont know what youre talking about. I mean, I understand what you're trying to say, but spreading stereotypes only divides the community and alienates people.

Pfft, like the community needs any help to divide itself and alienate people.

Dont run what the meta dictates you should? Kick.

Make an honest suggestion to a pug? Kick.

The community is divided because of how bad the system has become, and it's effect on the people themselves. They'd rather shoot the first person that comes through the door, then deal with the culture this ever-changing system has created.

Vimora · September 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ehh I've been playing this game for a while and only met a few actual nolifers. The majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are normal people with real lives, jobs, families etc. Assuming that someone who has more gold or dps than you "has no life" is rude. Some people are just more dedicated to their hobbies, and its normal.
So yeah... I really dont know what youre talking about. I mean, I understand what you're trying to say, but spreading stereotypes only divides the community and alienates people.

Well, there was no need to interpret my post this way. Like I said my perspective comes from vast MMO experience and ESO stands out among them ín a good way.

Narvuntien · September 2017

missing out on one day of gaming... you'll live.

Mureel · September 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ehh I've been playing this game for a while and only met a few actual nolifers (but even then I'm not sure if its ok to call them "nolifers" as this word is often used as derogatory term). The majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are normal people with real lives, jobs, families etc. Assuming that someone who has more gold or dps than you "has no life" is rude. Some people are just more dedicated to their hobbies, and its normal.
So yeah... I really dont know what youre talking about. I mean, I understand what you're trying to say, but spreading stereotypes only divides the community and alienates people.

Agree. I work nights, but from home and also here and there in days, my kids are in school all day. So I do farming gold stuff in daytime and work in other screen and then from when my kids have had dinner and go to bed soon till midnight or so then I raid/dungeon whatever.

I am in game often because i don't watch TV, also work on PC here, and am alone much of the time

Also my husband is a gamer so after work and dinner - he wants to do his game things.

LadyNalcarya · September 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ehh I've been playing this game for a while and only met a few actual nolifers. The majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are normal people with real lives, jobs, families etc. Assuming that someone who has more gold or dps than you "has no life" is rude. Some people are just more dedicated to their hobbies, and its normal.
So yeah... I really dont know what youre talking about. I mean, I understand what you're trying to say, but spreading stereotypes only divides the community and alienates people.

Pfft, like the community needs any help to divide itself and alienate people.

Dont run what the meta dictates you should? Kick.

Make an honest suggestion to a pug? Kick.

The community is divided because of how bad the system has become, and it's effect on the people themselves. They'd rather shoot the first person that comes through the door, then deal with the culture this ever-changing system has created.

Well, first of all, there's no inspect feature so you cant be kicked for wearing non-meta sets, simply because no one knows what you're wearing. They cant even see which skills you're using (except those that provide synergies).

Secondly, you're right, the game is flawed. But at the same time, some of the issues are caused by stereotypes and prejudice, and that's just sad.

Vimora wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ehh I've been playing this game for a while and only met a few actual nolifers. The majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are normal people with real lives, jobs, families etc. Assuming that someone who has more gold or dps than you "has no life" is rude. Some people are just more dedicated to their hobbies, and its normal.
So yeah... I really dont know what youre talking about. I mean, I understand what you're trying to say, but spreading stereotypes only divides the community and alienates people.

Well, there was no need to interpret my post this way. Like I said my perspective comes from vast MMO experience and ESO stands out among them ín a good way.

Well in this case I'm sorry that I might've misinterpreted your message.
I'm just really tired with people accusing each other just because they prefer different playstyles.
Anyway, I dont think ESO is a game that can attract hardcore grinders and people who like to play 24/7. Of course, I dont know every player in the game and I dont have any statistics but it doesnt seem like this type of players makes a significant percentage of playerbase.

Doctordarkspawn · September 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ehh I've been playing this game for a while and only met a few actual nolifers. The majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are normal people with real lives, jobs, families etc. Assuming that someone who has more gold or dps than you "has no life" is rude. Some people are just more dedicated to their hobbies, and its normal.
So yeah... I really dont know what youre talking about. I mean, I understand what you're trying to say, but spreading stereotypes only divides the community and alienates people.

Pfft, like the community needs any help to divide itself and alienate people.

Dont run what the meta dictates you should? Kick.

Make an honest suggestion to a pug? Kick.

The community is divided because of how bad the system has become, and it's effect on the people themselves. They'd rather shoot the first person that comes through the door, then deal with the culture this ever-changing system has created.

Well, first of all, there's no inspect feature so you cant be kicked for wearing non-meta sets, simply because no one knows what you're wearing. They cant even see which skills you're using (except those that provide synergies).

Secondly, you're right, the game is flawed. But at the same time, some of the issues are caused by stereotypes and prejudice, and that's just sad.

Vimora wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ehh I've been playing this game for a while and only met a few actual nolifers. The majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are normal people with real lives, jobs, families etc. Assuming that someone who has more gold or dps than you "has no life" is rude. Some people are just more dedicated to their hobbies, and its normal.
So yeah... I really dont know what youre talking about. I mean, I understand what you're trying to say, but spreading stereotypes only divides the community and alienates people.

Well, there was no need to interpret my post this way. Like I said my perspective comes from vast MMO experience and ESO stands out among them ín a good way.

Well in this case I'm sorry that I might've misinterpreted your message.
I'm just really tired with people accusing each other just because they prefer different playstyles.
Anyway, I dont think ESO is a game that can attract hardcore grinders and people who like to play 24/7. Of course, I dont know every player in the game and I dont have any statistics but it doesnt seem like this type of players makes a significant percentage of playerbase.

Oh I beg to differ entirely, there is absolutely ways for people to figure out what your using. Hell, they dont even need that much. Do too little DPS? Kick.

The reason the prejudices are there is because the system misleads players into fullfilling those steriotypes. Sad but true. You have only the current system, and human nature, to blame. And trying to crack down on the percieved spread of wrongthink is going to do A, amplify peoples interest in the steriotype, and B, waste your time.

Aisle9 · September 2017

There are two types of people in the world: people that puts other people into two categories, and people that don't.

Vimora · September 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ehh I've been playing this game for a while and only met a few actual nolifers. The majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are normal people with real lives, jobs, families etc. Assuming that someone who has more gold or dps than you "has no life" is rude. Some people are just more dedicated to their hobbies, and its normal.
So yeah... I really dont know what youre talking about. I mean, I understand what you're trying to say, but spreading stereotypes only divides the community and alienates people.

Pfft, like the community needs any help to divide itself and alienate people.

Dont run what the meta dictates you should? Kick.

Make an honest suggestion to a pug? Kick.

The community is divided because of how bad the system has become, and it's effect on the people themselves. They'd rather shoot the first person that comes through the door, then deal with the culture this ever-changing system has created.

Well, first of all, there's no inspect feature so you cant be kicked for wearing non-meta sets, simply because no one knows what you're wearing. They cant even see which skills you're using (except those that provide synergies).

Secondly, you're right, the game is flawed. But at the same time, some of the issues are caused by stereotypes and prejudice, and that's just sad.

Vimora wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ehh I've been playing this game for a while and only met a few actual nolifers. The majority of players, both casual and hardcore, are normal people with real lives, jobs, families etc. Assuming that someone who has more gold or dps than you "has no life" is rude. Some people are just more dedicated to their hobbies, and its normal.
So yeah... I really dont know what youre talking about. I mean, I understand what you're trying to say, but spreading stereotypes only divides the community and alienates people.

Well, there was no need to interpret my post this way. Like I said my perspective comes from vast MMO experience and ESO stands out among them ín a good way.

Well in this case I'm sorry that I might've misinterpreted your message.
I'm just really tired with people accusing each other just because they prefer different playstyles.
Anyway, I dont think ESO is a game that can attract hardcore grinders and people who like to play 24/7. Of course, I dont know every player in the game and I dont have any statistics but it doesnt seem like this type of players makes a significant percentage of playerbase.

It's part of what I meant. There are games like BDO, where you literally have to be in-game all day to stay competitive and grinding all day gives you enormous advantage. What I meant to say is that in ESO you can't do this to get ahead of casuals, but it is also true that there is always something to do. For instance, I tend to play more than I should and I went from running dungeons to farming dolmens, to playing the Thieves' Guild, pickpocketting motifs in Morrowind, exploring the world for chests and farming them, farming crafting mats in Stros M'kai. And even right now there are at least 3 things that I'd really enjoy doing if I could split myself into 3 parts. If you are a bit too much on the "nolife" side, you will still find a lot of things to get excited about. So you see, my intention was not to devide but to say that we can all happily coexist together and benefit from it.

Enslaved · September 2017

zaria · September 2017

Vimora wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

At the end of the day, I do not think this game strikes a good balance. At all.

Mostly because the games PVE system was a hastily converted from a PVP system, and as far as the dungeon balance has gone, ZOS keeps trying to appease the no-lifer populace by increasing the time and DPS barrier it takes to complete these dungeons.

They used to be easy enough to pug in reason. Now, design focus has shifted to hardcore content, and PVP content. The casual audience hasn't been a priority on a design or balance level since Homestead.

I can't argue with that. I think DLC dungeons are a nightmare to PUG.

Vet DLC dungeons is not very pugable, this is by design as pug is an serious debuff over an guild group.
Its the hardest pve group content outside of vDSA and veteran trials after all.

Normal DLC is ok, IpC might be a bit hard but the change to WGT helped. They are supposed to be a bit easier than the easiest veteran dungeons after all. The main problem is the lack of level requirements on them so you tend to get lots of low level players