WatchYourSixx wrote: »I have a bow/bow build that I use for stealth on my NB, with snipe crits from stealth around 60-70k in pve. I can share with you if you'd like! It's all about that initial hit. Pretty lethal in pvp against unsuspecting med/light armor folks too. Just hope they don't come for ya!
WatchYourSixx wrote: »I have a bow/bow build that I use for stealth on my NB, with snipe crits from stealth around 60-70k in pve. I can share with you if you'd like! It's all about that initial hit. Pretty lethal in pvp against unsuspecting med/light armor folks too. Just hope they don't come for ya!
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I'm not going to go into much detail on how to build for this patch but i'll basically make a guide line to put you in the right direction far as what gankers need to pay attention to.
Now ganking in the current patch is a lot different compared to last patch.
CONS:
- Sharpend Nerfed
- Shadow Mundus Nerfed
- Burst based proc sets generally Nerfed
- Disease enchant no longer applies minor defile, applies major now. (A waste if your a nightblade with incap. Can't stack healing debuffs as easily anymore).
- Spriggans nerfed (even though i never ran this set).
PROS:
- Crit bonuses have been increased.
- Warrior mundus buffed.
- Infused buffed.
- Defending trait nerfed.
- Major Defile buffed (effects hp regen).
- Oblivion enchant works with Infused.
As it stands, there is not much difference between your traditional build compared to a ganking build. In general its not very worth anymore to build a straight ganker in comparison to a regular build due to loss of stealth bonus damage.
The best route though for a pure ganker is Clever Alchemist. I would recommend Warrior mundus stone with Nirnhound/Infused weapons.
Zos has in my opinion destroyed true ganking and there is basically no point running a gank build.
Duragon_Darko wrote: »Just a question.... sorry to jack your thread.... but does weapon damage increases affect weapon abilities as well?
WatchYourSixx wrote: »I have a bow/bow build that I use for stealth on my NB, with snipe crits from stealth around 60-70k in pve. I can share with you if you'd like! It's all about that initial hit. Pretty lethal in pvp against unsuspecting med/light armor folks too. Just hope they don't come for ya!
The_Protagonist wrote: »GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »I'm not going to go into much detail on how to build for this patch but i'll basically make a guide line to put you in the right direction far as what gankers need to pay attention to.
Now ganking in the current patch is a lot different compared to last patch.
CONS:
- Sharpend Nerfed
- Shadow Mundus Nerfed
- Burst based proc sets generally Nerfed
- Disease enchant no longer applies minor defile, applies major now. (A waste if your a nightblade with incap. Can't stack healing debuffs as easily anymore).
- Spriggans nerfed (even though i never ran this set).
PROS:
- Crit bonuses have been increased.
- Warrior mundus buffed.
- Infused buffed.
- Defending trait nerfed.
- Major Defile buffed (effects hp regen).
- Oblivion enchant works with Infused.
As it stands, there is not much difference between your traditional build compared to a ganking build. In general its not very worth anymore to build a straight ganker in comparison to a regular build due to loss of stealth bonus damage.
The best route though for a pure ganker is Clever Alchemist. I would recommend Warrior mundus stone with Nirnhound/Infused weapons.
Zos has in my opinion destroyed true ganking and there is basically no point running a gank build.
How much is the stealth bonus now? It used to be 3.5 times critical strike damage. So there is none now for PvP... Gotta check the patch notes again... I wanted to make this build for silently farming tel var and an occasional gank if I found a solo.
Before the patch I used to get 50k CHD easily, but now it's only 30k+.
WatchYourSixx wrote: »I have a bow/bow build that I use for stealth on my NB, with snipe crits from stealth around 60-70k in pve. I can share with you if you'd like! It's all about that initial hit. Pretty lethal in pvp against unsuspecting med/light armor folks too. Just hope they don't come for ya!
WatchYourSixx wrote: »I have a bow/bow build that I use for stealth on my NB, with snipe crits from stealth around 60-70k in pve. I can share with you if you'd like! It's all about that initial hit. Pretty lethal in pvp against unsuspecting med/light armor folks too. Just hope they don't come for ya!
We always do.
Soul Assault, Leap, 3xEotS, 2x meteor and then Tbags until our fingers hurts.
WatchYourSixx wrote: »I have a bow/bow build that I use for stealth on my NB, with snipe crits from stealth around 60-70k in pve. I can share with you if you'd like! It's all about that initial hit. Pretty lethal in pvp against unsuspecting med/light armor folks too. Just hope they don't come for ya!
What are you using? I thought 46k was pretty good.
Thanks
Common, easy build to gear and get big hits:
Heaviest single hitter? Empowered onslaught via mage guild lvl 10 passive from stealth on a stealth race NB with hundings and automaton, nirnhoned greatsword, Warrior mundus, and proper CP allocation will one shot trolls. I haven't found anything that hits harder than that. You can usually take out whole mob packs up to 3 mobs with one heavy attack that way too (not using onslaught for that of course), or if you get behind them, don't even have to bother with empowering the strike. A very fun playstyle when working through the quests which will have other players in the area going "wth did you just do?" when they see you kill three mobs with one swat or one shotting trolls. You need to make sure the actual onslaught hit kills because if whatever enchantment on your greatsword kills them, the onslaught won't reset and you will have to fill it again.
Comes to within a sliver of one-shotting mammoths and giants, and with tweaking I haven't done yet, could probably do that too. Have been meaning to try it subbing in archer's mind for automaton to see if that gets higher dmg but haven't yet. If you don't mind the long CD, clever alchemist is an option, I don't use it myself.
Mine is a khajit, but orc might work too, you would need to assess the khajit +stealth dmg against the general orc melee dmg, khajit probably a bit higher. Wood elf would be great for such a build too, would get higher onslaught dmg due to the +stam pool, while the crit chance of the khajit would be irrelevant... for onslaught at least, not for other things you do with the character.
The CP is just making sure you have points in +direct dmg attacks and + physical dmg, + crit dmg forget the actual star names for those. Rest is your choice, I tend not to max out stars and put lots of stars up to where diminishing returns start. If you -maxed- those stars, I'm pretty sure it would one shot giants and mammoths easily, and maybe even on several different gear configs.
The skills I use to charge the hit are rally, focus, magelight and shadowy disguise. The other skills are your preference, just make sure at least one assassin skill is on the bar with onslaught. I run concealed weapon on the onslaught bar for the extra speed in stealth and general ease, so the bar is concealed, rally, focus, magelight, shadowy, onslaught. You -can- empower/cloak from the front bar then switch to the back bar and squeeze maybe cleave and shuffle, so your buffing will be easier, but that entails switching during your onslaught rotation. Up to you. It's possible to build this so it snipes and onslaughts too of course. For general pve I use arrow barrage, acid spray and fit in shuffle and leeching strikes, but as long as you have the magelight, rally and focus up, that's all that the build requires to get the big hits, rest is up to you. It's a well-known build with lots of variation possible.
It gets great hits using a utility setup like shacklebreaker and night mother's embrace, which is an overlooked set, the extra bit of stealth radius is great and you don't lose all that much damage. I run around with briarheart and bahraha generally open world, haven't one shot trolls with anything other than hundings and automaton though.
Another nice benefit of onslaught that people skip over is that in pve it boosts your resists for at least 10k for eight seconds. Using a shadow skill with one or two pieces of heavy armor gets you a decent length major resist, add the 10k from onslaught and you are near cap. As long as onslaught is the killing blow, you can chain it and keep it up through many mobs. sneak up and onslaught one mob, beat the other down in 8 seconds and onslaught again to kill it, rinse repeat. It's a really good ult, that has more uses than just ganking in pvp.
Mine is a khajit, but orc might work too, you would need to assess the khajit +stealth dmg against the general orc melee dmg, khajit probably a bit higher. Wood elf would be great for such a build too, would get higher onslaught dmg due to the +stam pool, while the crit chance of the khajit would be irrelevant... for onslaught at least, not for other things you do with the character.
The CP is just making sure you have points in +direct dmg attacks and + physical dmg, + crit dmg forget the actual star names for those. Rest is your choice, I tend not to max out stars and put lots of stars up to where diminishing returns start. If you -maxed- those stars, I'm pretty sure it would one shot giants and mammoths easily, and maybe even on several different gear configs.
The skills I use to charge the hit are rally, focus, magelight and shadowy disguise. The other skills are your preference, just make sure at least one assassin skill is on the bar with onslaught. I run concealed weapon on the onslaught bar for the extra speed in stealth and general ease, so the bar is concealed, rally, focus, magelight, shadowy, onslaught. You -can- empower/cloak from the front bar then switch to the back bar and squeeze maybe cleave and shuffle, so your buffing will be easier, but that entails switching during your onslaught rotation. Up to you. It's possible to build this so it snipes and onslaughts too of course. For general pve I use arrow barrage, acid spray and fit in shuffle and leeching strikes, but as long as you have the magelight, rally and focus up, that's all that the build requires to get the big hits, rest is up to you. It's a well-known build with lots of variation possible.
It gets great hits using a utility setup like shacklebreaker and night mother's embrace, which is an overlooked set, the extra bit of stealth radius is great and you don't lose all that much damage. I run around with briarheart and bahraha generally open world, haven't one shot trolls with anything other than hundings and automaton though.
Another nice benefit of onslaught that people skip over is that in pve it boosts your resists for at least 10k for eight seconds. Using a shadow skill with one or two pieces of heavy armor gets you a decent length major resist, add the 10k from onslaught and you are near cap. As long as onslaught is the killing blow, you can chain it and keep it up through many mobs. sneak up and onslaught one mob, beat the other down in 8 seconds and onslaught again to kill it, rinse repeat. It's a really good ult, that has more uses than just ganking in pvp.
Narvuntien wrote: »No mention of the huge WD Buff from Clever Alchemist?
I have Clever Alchemist and Automation. For my Gank-blade. I snipe (focused aim) and onslaught.
I tested warrior but I was doing less damage than when i was using Shadow even after the nerfs, I am not sure how it interacts with impen though.
WatchYourSixx wrote: »Thanks for the tag, I lost track of the post xD
I'm currently running 5 archers mind, 3 ring 2 armor, with 5pc clever alchemist divines and sharpened vma bow. I'm using the shadow stone even with the Nerf, since all I care about is the initial hit which is guaranteed crit. You could also use TBS with shadow and warrior for pve.
When I go to PVP I keep the same ideology of that initial hit, so i usually keep archers mind, shadow mundus, and go marksman for my other set.
Blue CP is focused on maximizing that first hit so I have 61 into master at arms, 61 precise strikes, 49 piercing and 49 mighty. No points into physical weapon because again, I just care about that initial hit. If it doesn't kill them and spamming snipe won't kill them, I need a new Target xD
For my bars I have expert Hunter, lethal arrow, lightweight beast trap, relentless focus, and radiant magelight with flawless Dawn breaker, with 3 fighters guild skills to maximize my weapon damage. You could squeeze even more with two more fg abilities on front bar, and move focus and magelight to back bar, however I'm pretty content with my back bar. On that bar I have piercing mark, poison injection, concealed weapon for stealth movement, vigor, and cloak with ballista ult.
I usually cast these in order, relentless focus, swap, piercing mark, swap, pop a weapon damage pot, then magelight immediately into a lethal arrow.
In pve it's really easy to line up that perfect shot, remember to be near Max range for the bonus damage of bow. I regularly get 60-70k crits in pve from stealth, and 12-20k crits in pvp. PVP I also just spam snipe so by the time the first hits, a second is already on its way. If the first doesn't kill them, the second almost always does. Unless they have full impen and heavy armor, but I don't care about those.
Race can be bosmer or khajiit for stealth bonus.
That's pretty much it, I'm open to suggestions as well for any improvements.
WatchYourSixx wrote: »I've done some theorizing today and I have some improvements of my own coming soonI will post some screenshots and details once I'm satisfied with it.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »By heavy hitter, I assume you mean PVE DPS for the most part. All stamina are pretty close at this point, but most classes have their strengths and weaknesses. The only one I wouldnt consider for PVE DPS is a Warden (they do rock in PVP).
Stam DK: Most will say this is your heaviest hitter for pure single target. Their rotation is not complicated, but they are definitely a little bit squishy. They dont offer much for utility.
Stam NB: On paper they might actually be better than DK for single target. Their execute is very strong, and I think they are certainly in first place for short bursty fights. They have the most complicated rotation of any stamina toon. Excellent in the right hands, not the first place to start IMO.
Stam Templar: Their main strength is they bring a powerful debuff to the raid (POTL give minor breach/fracture). From a DPS standpoint, I think they are a touch behind DK, but they bring utility and survival. They also have a few neat tools like repentance for making resource management and survival less of an issue. I have seen stamplars break 60k ST in raids, so damage is not an issue. They do a little better cleave damage than the first two.
Stam Sorc: My personal favorite, but probably lowest of the four for pure single target DPS. They do have perhaps the best AOE of any of the stam classes because of hurricane. Bound armaments and Surge also make them the most survivable of any class. I think they have the shortest learning curve, especially for stuff like VMA. If you have never played stam in end game PVE content, I think this is certainly the best place to start.
All four classes are going to play with similar gear and have very similar back bars. There is no right answer for gear. If you are the only stamina player in your group, then the best gear is about armor penetration. TFS/NM/Krags are the obvious answers. Once you get into a proper raid, then that flies out the window. Your group should coordinate sets to get your group to the penetration cap. Veli is the best monster set for the vast majority of scenarios once you are at the cap.
Stamina raids need one person in NM, one in Sunderflame, and probably 2 in Alkosh. If you have a few DKs, you probably also want a DPS or off Tank in morag tong. Most stamina players carry all of these sets and more so they can swap on the fly. It is very common for each DPS to pair one debuff set (NM, Sunder, Alkosh) with one damage set (hundings, VO, Automaton). If you have one player that is really out in front of the rest of the group, you might have them go full damage (VO/Hundings) and have another player double up on debuff sets. I often run Sunder/NM on my stam sorc in raids, and you can still break 50k ST on certain fights. If you get good at keeping up your debuffs, you will become very popular in a raid.
If you are serious about PVE DPS on a stam toon, I suggest getting both NM and hundings weapons and a few armor pieces. This is nice because its easy to craft weapons in perfect traits and avoid the grind. I would then look to get your hands on some jewelry (and a few armor pieces) of Sundeflame, Alkosh, VO, and TFS. Then you can simply mix and match as needed. The best stam players can step into a raid and say, "what do you want me to run?" I ALWAYS run Sunder in my raid, but I will often switch back and forth between NM and hundings. You only need one NM in a group. If noone else has it, be that guy. If someone else wants to run it, say thank you, slot hundings, and pull a bit more personal DPS. In the rare scenario where both are covered, then I can go full damage. On my sorc, its Automaton/Hundings.