INVIGORATING TRAIT: Good news!

dsalter · September 2017

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

Who read the title in Professor Farnsworth's voice?

"wooormstrum..." *shakes fist*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8IVI0sZ6F8

dsalter · September 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

For a new thread.

The regen mundases (mundai?) give 238 regen at base, so 7.5% of that is 18. The invigorating trait gives 11 per stat, so with invigorating you get 60% of the regen of mundas but for each stat, so a total addtion of base regen of stats of 33, not sure how much more you would want it to give to make it "significant". The math is easy. Invigorating is much better then prosperous and much better then people give it credit for.

but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread.

Nijey wrote: »

to: @ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi all,
thanks to ZOS for creating this interesting trait.

Invigorating give 11 (legendary) magicka, stamina, and health recovery for piece.
7 pieces: 77 reg mag, stam and health.

Let's talk clearly.. maybe prosperous was more usefull... But I like your idea. It only needs little improvement in my opinion.

Is possibile thinking to associate that reg to the type of armor and triplicate bonus?

Example:

Heavy armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Health Regen
Light armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Magicka Regen
Medium armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Stamina Regen
Shields = 11/11/11 reg.

Is this case the trait will be not too powerfull, But interesting enough not to be thrown away.

Please community give your opinion.

thanks to all.

in all honesty just bumping up the base amount to 15 and increasing in 3-4's per tier is enough to make it viable

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

max_only wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

I'd love to see it buffed to a useable. It's a very interesting idea, just not useable as it is now.

people keep saying this, if it was any stronger, there would be no choice when it came to regen, it would just be this. Right now you get 60% of the regen you would get with regen mundas and divines but for all three. Really. How many much more do you want?

Doesn't this assume one is running nothing but invigorating? More than likely people will have just 1 or 2 pieces of this while waiting for sturdy or divines to drop.

In my original calculations, further up the thread, I compare one piece to one piece. It was in response to the last person that I was stating the full effects if you had nothing but the trait on. So please read my first reply in this thread. Then rap your head around the fact that I am simply going on the premises that prosperous was a terrible triat and invigorating much better then prosperous and better then people are saying. Personally I run invigorating on my healer warden, I need the extra Stam regen for Subterranean Assault.

Blanco wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

I'd love to see it buffed to a useable. It's a very interesting idea, just not useable as it is now.

people keep saying this, if it was any stronger, there would be no choice when it came to regen, it would just be this. Right now you get 60% of the regen you would get with regen mundas and divines but for all three. Really. How many much more do you want?

and yet, running a full set of this is likely not viable.

Are you willing to give up impen in PvP? I'm sure as heck not. As it is now divines is the only trait that contributes toward DPS in PvE. So there's no way you can give up divines there.

So the most someone is going to realistically run is 2 pieces of this, and 2 pieces is certainly not beneficial.

It certainly depends on what you mean by "viable" because if you mean what a lot of people on this forum mean which is "optimal" then no. But is sure as Akatosh is a dragon, closer then prosperous.

And you do know infused contributes to dps too right? On the big pieces, it is within a rounding error difference in dps too compared to Divines, regardless of the mundas used.

Betsararie · September 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

I'd love to see it buffed to a useable. It's a very interesting idea, just not useable as it is now.

people keep saying this, if it was any stronger, there would be no choice when it came to regen, it would just be this. Right now you get 60% of the regen you would get with regen mundas and divines but for all three. Really. How many much more do you want?

Doesn't this assume one is running nothing but invigorating? More than likely people will have just 1 or 2 pieces of this while waiting for sturdy or divines to drop.

In my original calculations, further up the thread, I compare one piece to one piece. It was in response to the last person that I was stating the full effects if you had nothing but the trait on. So please read my first reply in this thread. Then rap your head around the fact that I am simply going on the premises that prosperous was a terrible triat and invigorating much better then prosperous and better then people are saying. Personally I run invigorating on my healer warden, I need the extra Stam regen for Subterranean Assault.

Blanco wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

I'd love to see it buffed to a useable. It's a very interesting idea, just not useable as it is now.

people keep saying this, if it was any stronger, there would be no choice when it came to regen, it would just be this. Right now you get 60% of the regen you would get with regen mundas and divines but for all three. Really. How many much more do you want?

and yet, running a full set of this is likely not viable.

Are you willing to give up impen in PvP? I'm sure as heck not. As it is now divines is the only trait that contributes toward DPS in PvE. So there's no way you can give up divines there.

So the most someone is going to realistically run is 2 pieces of this, and 2 pieces is certainly not beneficial.

It certainly depends on what you mean by "viable" because if you mean what a lot of people on this forum mean which is "optimal" then no. But is sure as Akatosh is a dragon, closer then prosperous.

And you do know infused contributes to dps too right? On the big pieces, it is within a rounding error difference in dps too compared to Divines, regardless of the mundas used.

I do know infused contributes to dps, as far as I know the dps contribution is less, you seem to be confirming this.

Possibly stated imperfectly in my previous comment

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

dsalter wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

For a new thread.

The regen mundases (mundai?) give 238 regen at base, so 7.5% of that is 18. The invigorating trait gives 11 per stat, so with invigorating you get 60% of the regen of mundas but for each stat, so a total addtion of base regen of stats of 33, not sure how much more you would want it to give to make it "significant". The math is easy. Invigorating is much better then prosperous and much better then people give it credit for.

but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread.

Nijey wrote: »

to: @ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi all,
thanks to ZOS for creating this interesting trait.

Invigorating give 11 (legendary) magicka, stamina, and health recovery for piece.
7 pieces: 77 reg mag, stam and health.

Let's talk clearly.. maybe prosperous was more usefull... But I like your idea. It only needs little improvement in my opinion.

Is possibile thinking to associate that reg to the type of armor and triplicate bonus?

Example:

Heavy armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Health Regen
Light armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Magicka Regen
Medium armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Stamina Regen
Shields = 11/11/11 reg.

Is this case the trait will be not too powerfull, But interesting enough not to be thrown away.

Please community give your opinion.

thanks to all.

in all honesty just bumping up the base amount to 15 and increasing in 3-4's per tier is enough to make it viable

if you bump it up that choice , there would be no reason to use divines with a regen mundas. you would only be losing 12% of the regen and gain so much regen for your off stat that it would be silly to use anything else, thus losing variety of choice.

i am not exactly sure what " but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread." mean but i will try to respond. if you mean that divines is more flexible, i agree, divines can be offensive or defencive or dps or sustain, that is why it is sought after so much. but as i have shown mathematically, invigorating is a good trade off when only considering the sustain side of divines. and invigorating, i can not stress this enough, MUCH better then prosperous.

Blanco wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

I'd love to see it buffed to a useable. It's a very interesting idea, just not useable as it is now.

people keep saying this, if it was any stronger, there would be no choice when it came to regen, it would just be this. Right now you get 60% of the regen you would get with regen mundas and divines but for all three. Really. How many much more do you want?

Doesn't this assume one is running nothing but invigorating? More than likely people will have just 1 or 2 pieces of this while waiting for sturdy or divines to drop.

In my original calculations, further up the thread, I compare one piece to one piece. It was in response to the last person that I was stating the full effects if you had nothing but the trait on. So please read my first reply in this thread. Then rap your head around the fact that I am simply going on the premises that prosperous was a terrible triat and invigorating much better then prosperous and better then people are saying. Personally I run invigorating on my healer warden, I need the extra Stam regen for Subterranean Assault.

Blanco wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

I'd love to see it buffed to a useable. It's a very interesting idea, just not useable as it is now.

people keep saying this, if it was any stronger, there would be no choice when it came to regen, it would just be this. Right now you get 60% of the regen you would get with regen mundas and divines but for all three. Really. How many much more do you want?

and yet, running a full set of this is likely not viable.

Are you willing to give up impen in PvP? I'm sure as heck not. As it is now divines is the only trait that contributes toward DPS in PvE. So there's no way you can give up divines there.

So the most someone is going to realistically run is 2 pieces of this, and 2 pieces is certainly not beneficial.

It certainly depends on what you mean by "viable" because if you mean what a lot of people on this forum mean which is "optimal" then no. But is sure as Akatosh is a dragon, closer then prosperous.

And you do know infused contributes to dps too right? On the big pieces, it is within a rounding error difference in dps too compared to Divines, regardless of the mundas used.

I do know infused contributes to dps, as far as I know the dps contribution is less, you seem to be confirming this.

Possibly stated imperfectly in my previous comment

do you know the definition of "rounding error"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-off_error

please go though this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/368523/mundus-stone-and-divines-the-optimal-choices.

long and short of it, infused on the big and divines are within 1-2% dps, you will lose more dps from messing up your rotation *once* then you will by the difference between the two.

TheDoomsdayMonster · September 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Atronach or Serpent Mundus: +238 Mag or Stam regen

With gold Divines, that's +7.5%, or +18 Mag or Stam regen

With gold Invigorating, that's +11 Mag, Stam, and Health regen

So if want single-resource regen, Divines if you are using a regen Mundus is best. Invigorating returns less than Divines, but covers all three pools.

I think the numbers for Invigorating are fair. You may think +11 regen is insignificant, but it's in line with what other traits do--armor traits in general have always been pretty insignificant in comparison to the much more important weapon traits.

PS: Also keep in mind that the +11 regen is unbuffed. In practice, it'll be quite a bit more due to CP, passives from class/race/etc., potions, and other sources of buffs to regen.

100% agree...

Invigorating is very good as is; no buff or change is needed...

DDuke · September 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

For a new thread.

The regen mundases (mundai?) give 238 regen at base, so 7.5% of that is 18. The invigorating trait gives 11 per stat, so with invigorating you get 60% of the regen of mundas but for each stat, so a total addtion of base regen of stats of 33, not sure how much more you would want it to give to make it "significant". The math is easy. Invigorating is much better then prosperous and much better then people give it credit for.

but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread.

Nijey wrote: »

to: @ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi all,
thanks to ZOS for creating this interesting trait.

Invigorating give 11 (legendary) magicka, stamina, and health recovery for piece.
7 pieces: 77 reg mag, stam and health.

Let's talk clearly.. maybe prosperous was more usefull... But I like your idea. It only needs little improvement in my opinion.

Is possibile thinking to associate that reg to the type of armor and triplicate bonus?

Example:

Heavy armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Health Regen
Light armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Magicka Regen
Medium armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Stamina Regen
Shields = 11/11/11 reg.

Is this case the trait will be not too powerfull, But interesting enough not to be thrown away.

Please community give your opinion.

thanks to all.

in all honesty just bumping up the base amount to 15 and increasing in 3-4's per tier is enough to make it viable

if you bump it up that choice , there would be no reason to use divines with a regen mundas. you would only be losing 12% of the regen and gain so much regen for your off stat that it would be silly to use anything else, thus losing variety of choice.

i am not exactly sure what " but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread." mean but i will try to respond. if you mean that divines is more flexible, i agree, divines can be offensive or defencive or dps or sustain, that is why it is sought after so much. but as i have shown mathematically, invigorating is a good trade off when only considering the sustain side of divines. and invigorating, i can not stress this enough, MUCH better then prosperous.

There isn't a reason to use Divines with regen mundus - divines is a PvE trait and in PvE you use the mundus which provides highest DPS (usually Warrior/Apprentice).

And of course Invigorating is a better trait than Prosperous, I don't think anyone is debating that (well, except maybe people who enjoyed farming gold with Prosperous gear). The point is that it's still not worth using, not in PvE & not in PvP.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

For a new thread.

The regen mundases (mundai?) give 238 regen at base, so 7.5% of that is 18. The invigorating trait gives 11 per stat, so with invigorating you get 60% of the regen of mundas but for each stat, so a total addtion of base regen of stats of 33, not sure how much more you would want it to give to make it "significant". The math is easy. Invigorating is much better then prosperous and much better then people give it credit for.

but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread.

Nijey wrote: »

to: @ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi all,
thanks to ZOS for creating this interesting trait.

Invigorating give 11 (legendary) magicka, stamina, and health recovery for piece.
7 pieces: 77 reg mag, stam and health.

Let's talk clearly.. maybe prosperous was more usefull... But I like your idea. It only needs little improvement in my opinion.

Is possibile thinking to associate that reg to the type of armor and triplicate bonus?

Example:

Heavy armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Health Regen
Light armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Magicka Regen
Medium armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Stamina Regen
Shields = 11/11/11 reg.

Is this case the trait will be not too powerfull, But interesting enough not to be thrown away.

Please community give your opinion.

thanks to all.

in all honesty just bumping up the base amount to 15 and increasing in 3-4's per tier is enough to make it viable

if you bump it up that choice , there would be no reason to use divines with a regen mundas. you would only be losing 12% of the regen and gain so much regen for your off stat that it would be silly to use anything else, thus losing variety of choice.

i am not exactly sure what " but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread." mean but i will try to respond. if you mean that divines is more flexible, i agree, divines can be offensive or defencive or dps or sustain, that is why it is sought after so much. but as i have shown mathematically, invigorating is a good trade off when only considering the sustain side of divines. and invigorating, i can not stress this enough, MUCH better then prosperous.

There isn't a reason to use Divines with regen mundus - divines is a PvE trait and in PvE you use the mundus which provides highest DPS (usually Warrior/Apprentice).

And of course Invigorating is a better trait than Prosperous, I don't think anyone is debating that (well, except maybe people who enjoyed farming gold with Prosperous gear). The point is that it's still not worth using, not in PvE & not in PvP.

You clearly don't heal or tank. I see a LOT of both with the atro. And I have seen more then a few Stam dps with the serpent. Granted tank use sturdy, there are plenty of healers that use the atro. Just keep in mind that not all choices need to be BiS all the time. Also the warrior/apprentice thing is a new phenomenon, used to be only thief was used, for everyone but tanks, it was that much better and was so for a long time.

altemriel · September 2017

yes it needs to get increased, it is too low to be useful like this. give it at least some good +600 for 7 gold pieces to be worth using it.
make it the "regen" trait!!!

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

altemriel wrote: »

yes it needs to get increased, it is too low to be useful like this. give it at least some good +600 for 7 gold pieces to be worth using it.
make it the "regen" trait!!!

what? 600 regen? That is way too much. Do you even pay attention to anything in this thread?

DDuke · September 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

For a new thread.

The regen mundases (mundai?) give 238 regen at base, so 7.5% of that is 18. The invigorating trait gives 11 per stat, so with invigorating you get 60% of the regen of mundas but for each stat, so a total addtion of base regen of stats of 33, not sure how much more you would want it to give to make it "significant". The math is easy. Invigorating is much better then prosperous and much better then people give it credit for.

but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread.

Nijey wrote: »

to: @ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi all,
thanks to ZOS for creating this interesting trait.

Invigorating give 11 (legendary) magicka, stamina, and health recovery for piece.
7 pieces: 77 reg mag, stam and health.

Let's talk clearly.. maybe prosperous was more usefull... But I like your idea. It only needs little improvement in my opinion.

Is possibile thinking to associate that reg to the type of armor and triplicate bonus?

Example:

Heavy armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Health Regen
Light armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Magicka Regen
Medium armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Stamina Regen
Shields = 11/11/11 reg.

Is this case the trait will be not too powerfull, But interesting enough not to be thrown away.

Please community give your opinion.

thanks to all.

in all honesty just bumping up the base amount to 15 and increasing in 3-4's per tier is enough to make it viable

if you bump it up that choice , there would be no reason to use divines with a regen mundas. you would only be losing 12% of the regen and gain so much regen for your off stat that it would be silly to use anything else, thus losing variety of choice.

i am not exactly sure what " but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread." mean but i will try to respond. if you mean that divines is more flexible, i agree, divines can be offensive or defencive or dps or sustain, that is why it is sought after so much. but as i have shown mathematically, invigorating is a good trade off when only considering the sustain side of divines. and invigorating, i can not stress this enough, MUCH better then prosperous.

There isn't a reason to use Divines with regen mundus - divines is a PvE trait and in PvE you use the mundus which provides highest DPS (usually Warrior/Apprentice).

And of course Invigorating is a better trait than Prosperous, I don't think anyone is debating that (well, except maybe people who enjoyed farming gold with Prosperous gear). The point is that it's still not worth using, not in PvE & not in PvP.

You clearly don't heal or tank. I see a LOT of both with the atro. And I have seen more then a few Stam dps with the serpent. Granted tank use sturdy, there are plenty of healers that use the atro. Just keep in mind that not all choices need to be BiS all the time. Also the warrior/apprentice thing is a new phenomenon, used to be only thief was used, for everyone but tanks, it was that much better and was so for a long time.

Yes, they do. Unless you're a casual player who doesn't really care about min-maxing - in which case you shouldn't post on forum threads about game balance.

The reason Thief & Shadow munduses fell out of favor is the last patch which nerfed their values & buffed Warrior etc to be more competitive with Shadow & Thief. Due to the way modifiers work, you can still get better benefit from Shadow mundus on a gank build if you build for high skill tooltips - so it's still BiS for some niche builds.

They did go a bit overboard with Thief nerfs though - that mundus isn't worth using over Warrior even with things like crit surge/briarheart etc.

The point is that there should be a situation where each trait/mundus is BiS in a certain scenario.

There is no scenario where Invigorating is BiS [PvE=Divines, PvP=Impenetrable/Sturdy/(Infused for max magicka builds)].

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

For a new thread.

The regen mundases (mundai?) give 238 regen at base, so 7.5% of that is 18. The invigorating trait gives 11 per stat, so with invigorating you get 60% of the regen of mundas but for each stat, so a total addtion of base regen of stats of 33, not sure how much more you would want it to give to make it "significant". The math is easy. Invigorating is much better then prosperous and much better then people give it credit for.

but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread.

Nijey wrote: »

to: @ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi all,
thanks to ZOS for creating this interesting trait.

Invigorating give 11 (legendary) magicka, stamina, and health recovery for piece.
7 pieces: 77 reg mag, stam and health.

Let's talk clearly.. maybe prosperous was more usefull... But I like your idea. It only needs little improvement in my opinion.

Is possibile thinking to associate that reg to the type of armor and triplicate bonus?

Example:

Heavy armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Health Regen
Light armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Magicka Regen
Medium armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Stamina Regen
Shields = 11/11/11 reg.

Is this case the trait will be not too powerfull, But interesting enough not to be thrown away.

Please community give your opinion.

thanks to all.

in all honesty just bumping up the base amount to 15 and increasing in 3-4's per tier is enough to make it viable

if you bump it up that choice , there would be no reason to use divines with a regen mundas. you would only be losing 12% of the regen and gain so much regen for your off stat that it would be silly to use anything else, thus losing variety of choice.

i am not exactly sure what " but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread." mean but i will try to respond. if you mean that divines is more flexible, i agree, divines can be offensive or defencive or dps or sustain, that is why it is sought after so much. but as i have shown mathematically, invigorating is a good trade off when only considering the sustain side of divines. and invigorating, i can not stress this enough, MUCH better then prosperous.

There isn't a reason to use Divines with regen mundus - divines is a PvE trait and in PvE you use the mundus which provides highest DPS (usually Warrior/Apprentice).

And of course Invigorating is a better trait than Prosperous, I don't think anyone is debating that (well, except maybe people who enjoyed farming gold with Prosperous gear). The point is that it's still not worth using, not in PvE & not in PvP.

You clearly don't heal or tank. I see a LOT of both with the atro. And I have seen more then a few Stam dps with the serpent. Granted tank use sturdy, there are plenty of healers that use the atro. Just keep in mind that not all choices need to be BiS all the time. Also the warrior/apprentice thing is a new phenomenon, used to be only thief was used, for everyone but tanks, it was that much better and was so for a long time.

Yes, they do. Unless you're a casual player who doesn't really care about min-maxing - in which case you shouldn't post on forum threads about game balance.

The reason Thief & Shadow munduses fell out of favor is the last patch which nerfed their values & buffed Warrior etc to be more competitive with Shadow & Thief. Due to the way modifiers work, you can still get better benefit from Shadow mundus on a gank build if you build for high skill tooltips - so it's still BiS for some niche builds.

They did go a bit overboard with Thief nerfs though - that mundus isn't worth using over Warrior even with things like crit surge/briarheart etc.

The point is that there should be a situation where each trait/mundus is BiS in a certain scenario.

There is no scenario where Invigorating is BiS [PvE=Divines, PvP=Impregnable/Sturdy/(Infused for max magicka builds)].

You talk about game balance, invigorating is a trait made for regen. You have to balance that against regen sourses, and the only source for regen from armor traits is Divines with a regen mundas. Not everything is a dps issue. I use invigorating on my healer warden and use 4 pieces of it, with infused body for max magic, the Stam regen I get from it is the only way that I can get stam regen AND magic regen. Doesn't that make it BiS for me? It really seems like you need to get out the dps mindset you have.

One more time, the difference between infused on the big pieces and Divines with a DPS mundas almost nothing.

And good job summarizing the last patch.

Lastly, it is not impregnable, it is impenetrable.

DDuke · September 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

For a new thread.

The regen mundases (mundai?) give 238 regen at base, so 7.5% of that is 18. The invigorating trait gives 11 per stat, so with invigorating you get 60% of the regen of mundas but for each stat, so a total addtion of base regen of stats of 33, not sure how much more you would want it to give to make it "significant". The math is easy. Invigorating is much better then prosperous and much better then people give it credit for.

but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread.

Nijey wrote: »

to: @ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi all,
thanks to ZOS for creating this interesting trait.

Invigorating give 11 (legendary) magicka, stamina, and health recovery for piece.
7 pieces: 77 reg mag, stam and health.

Let's talk clearly.. maybe prosperous was more usefull... But I like your idea. It only needs little improvement in my opinion.

Is possibile thinking to associate that reg to the type of armor and triplicate bonus?

Example:

Heavy armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Health Regen
Light armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Magicka Regen
Medium armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Stamina Regen
Shields = 11/11/11 reg.

Is this case the trait will be not too powerfull, But interesting enough not to be thrown away.

Please community give your opinion.

thanks to all.

in all honesty just bumping up the base amount to 15 and increasing in 3-4's per tier is enough to make it viable

if you bump it up that choice , there would be no reason to use divines with a regen mundas. you would only be losing 12% of the regen and gain so much regen for your off stat that it would be silly to use anything else, thus losing variety of choice.

i am not exactly sure what " but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread." mean but i will try to respond. if you mean that divines is more flexible, i agree, divines can be offensive or defencive or dps or sustain, that is why it is sought after so much. but as i have shown mathematically, invigorating is a good trade off when only considering the sustain side of divines. and invigorating, i can not stress this enough, MUCH better then prosperous.

There isn't a reason to use Divines with regen mundus - divines is a PvE trait and in PvE you use the mundus which provides highest DPS (usually Warrior/Apprentice).

And of course Invigorating is a better trait than Prosperous, I don't think anyone is debating that (well, except maybe people who enjoyed farming gold with Prosperous gear). The point is that it's still not worth using, not in PvE & not in PvP.

You clearly don't heal or tank. I see a LOT of both with the atro. And I have seen more then a few Stam dps with the serpent. Granted tank use sturdy, there are plenty of healers that use the atro. Just keep in mind that not all choices need to be BiS all the time. Also the warrior/apprentice thing is a new phenomenon, used to be only thief was used, for everyone but tanks, it was that much better and was so for a long time.

Yes, they do. Unless you're a casual player who doesn't really care about min-maxing - in which case you shouldn't post on forum threads about game balance.

The reason Thief & Shadow munduses fell out of favor is the last patch which nerfed their values & buffed Warrior etc to be more competitive with Shadow & Thief. Due to the way modifiers work, you can still get better benefit from Shadow mundus on a gank build if you build for high skill tooltips - so it's still BiS for some niche builds.

They did go a bit overboard with Thief nerfs though - that mundus isn't worth using over Warrior even with things like crit surge/briarheart etc.

The point is that there should be a situation where each trait/mundus is BiS in a certain scenario.

There is no scenario where Invigorating is BiS [PvE=Divines, PvP=Impregnable/Sturdy/(Infused for max magicka builds)].

You talk about game balance, invigorating is a trait made for regen. You have to balance that against regen sourses, and the only source for regen from armor traits is Divines with a regen mundas. Not everything is a dps issue. I use invigorating on my healer warden and use 4 pieces of it, with infused body for max magic, the Stam regen I get from it is the only way that I can get stam regen AND magic regen. Doesn't that make it BiS for me? It really seems like you need to get out the dps mindset you have.

One more time, the difference between infused on the big pieces and Divines with a DPS mundas almost nothing.

And good job summarizing the last patch.

Lastly, it is not impregnable, it is impenetrable.

Oops, I keep mixing it up with the item set in my head

But no, it's not just a DPS mindset. Even if you do use regen mundus as healer, Divines is still better - you don't need stam regen in PvE for anything but CC breaks and occasional block, and the base stam regen is more than enough for that.

In PvP, if you're a healer you're always better off with 7x Impenetrable (27% crit resistance) than 77 (base) stam/magicka/health regen, Sturdy if you run S&B and/or Infused (atleast on large pieces) if you run dmg shields.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

For a new thread.

The regen mundases (mundai?) give 238 regen at base, so 7.5% of that is 18. The invigorating trait gives 11 per stat, so with invigorating you get 60% of the regen of mundas but for each stat, so a total addtion of base regen of stats of 33, not sure how much more you would want it to give to make it "significant". The math is easy. Invigorating is much better then prosperous and much better then people give it credit for.

but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread.

Nijey wrote: »

to: @ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi all,
thanks to ZOS for creating this interesting trait.

Invigorating give 11 (legendary) magicka, stamina, and health recovery for piece.
7 pieces: 77 reg mag, stam and health.

Let's talk clearly.. maybe prosperous was more usefull... But I like your idea. It only needs little improvement in my opinion.

Is possibile thinking to associate that reg to the type of armor and triplicate bonus?

Example:

Heavy armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Health Regen
Light armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Magicka Regen
Medium armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Stamina Regen
Shields = 11/11/11 reg.

Is this case the trait will be not too powerfull, But interesting enough not to be thrown away.

Please community give your opinion.

thanks to all.

in all honesty just bumping up the base amount to 15 and increasing in 3-4's per tier is enough to make it viable

if you bump it up that choice , there would be no reason to use divines with a regen mundas. you would only be losing 12% of the regen and gain so much regen for your off stat that it would be silly to use anything else, thus losing variety of choice.

i am not exactly sure what " but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread." mean but i will try to respond. if you mean that divines is more flexible, i agree, divines can be offensive or defencive or dps or sustain, that is why it is sought after so much. but as i have shown mathematically, invigorating is a good trade off when only considering the sustain side of divines. and invigorating, i can not stress this enough, MUCH better then prosperous.

There isn't a reason to use Divines with regen mundus - divines is a PvE trait and in PvE you use the mundus which provides highest DPS (usually Warrior/Apprentice).

And of course Invigorating is a better trait than Prosperous, I don't think anyone is debating that (well, except maybe people who enjoyed farming gold with Prosperous gear). The point is that it's still not worth using, not in PvE & not in PvP.

You clearly don't heal or tank. I see a LOT of both with the atro. And I have seen more then a few Stam dps with the serpent. Granted tank use sturdy, there are plenty of healers that use the atro. Just keep in mind that not all choices need to be BiS all the time. Also the warrior/apprentice thing is a new phenomenon, used to be only thief was used, for everyone but tanks, it was that much better and was so for a long time.

Yes, they do. Unless you're a casual player who doesn't really care about min-maxing - in which case you shouldn't post on forum threads about game balance.

The reason Thief & Shadow munduses fell out of favor is the last patch which nerfed their values & buffed Warrior etc to be more competitive with Shadow & Thief. Due to the way modifiers work, you can still get better benefit from Shadow mundus on a gank build if you build for high skill tooltips - so it's still BiS for some niche builds.

They did go a bit overboard with Thief nerfs though - that mundus isn't worth using over Warrior even with things like crit surge/briarheart etc.

The point is that there should be a situation where each trait/mundus is BiS in a certain scenario.

There is no scenario where Invigorating is BiS [PvE=Divines, PvP=Impregnable/Sturdy/(Infused for max magicka builds)].

You talk about game balance, invigorating is a trait made for regen. You have to balance that against regen sourses, and the only source for regen from armor traits is Divines with a regen mundas. Not everything is a dps issue. I use invigorating on my healer warden and use 4 pieces of it, with infused body for max magic, the Stam regen I get from it is the only way that I can get stam regen AND magic regen. Doesn't that make it BiS for me? It really seems like you need to get out the dps mindset you have.

One more time, the difference between infused on the big pieces and Divines with a DPS mundas almost nothing.

And good job summarizing the last patch.

Lastly, it is not impregnable, it is impenetrable.

Oops, I keep mixing it up with the item set in my head

But no, it's not just a DPS mindset. Even if you do use regen mundus as healer, Divines is still better - you don't need stam regen in PvE for anything but CC breaks and occasional block, and the base stam regen is more than enough for that.

In PvP, if you're a healer you're always better off with 7x Impenetrable (27% crit resistance) than 77 (base) stam/magicka/health regen, Sturdy if you run S&B and/or Infused (atleast on large pieces) if you run dmg shields.

You keep saying divines is always better. I have shown you that infused is just as good, in some cases better, this means that it is not always. Please acknowledge this fact.

I have also gave you a use case, my warden with a Stam skill usage where I need the extra Stam regen, you have not acknowledge that either. I have now played every class, Stam and magic, to max rank and completed all content on my main healer and most of the other dps. I understand the game at a meta level. But the meta is really only 5-7% ahead of the rest. This leaves options open. You need to acknowledge this too.

DDuke · September 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

For a new thread.

The regen mundases (mundai?) give 238 regen at base, so 7.5% of that is 18. The invigorating trait gives 11 per stat, so with invigorating you get 60% of the regen of mundas but for each stat, so a total addtion of base regen of stats of 33, not sure how much more you would want it to give to make it "significant". The math is easy. Invigorating is much better then prosperous and much better then people give it credit for.

but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread.

Nijey wrote: »

to: @ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi all,
thanks to ZOS for creating this interesting trait.

Invigorating give 11 (legendary) magicka, stamina, and health recovery for piece.
7 pieces: 77 reg mag, stam and health.

Let's talk clearly.. maybe prosperous was more usefull... But I like your idea. It only needs little improvement in my opinion.

Is possibile thinking to associate that reg to the type of armor and triplicate bonus?

Example:

Heavy armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Health Regen
Light armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Magicka Regen
Medium armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Stamina Regen
Shields = 11/11/11 reg.

Is this case the trait will be not too powerfull, But interesting enough not to be thrown away.

Please community give your opinion.

thanks to all.

in all honesty just bumping up the base amount to 15 and increasing in 3-4's per tier is enough to make it viable

if you bump it up that choice , there would be no reason to use divines with a regen mundas. you would only be losing 12% of the regen and gain so much regen for your off stat that it would be silly to use anything else, thus losing variety of choice.

i am not exactly sure what " but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread." mean but i will try to respond. if you mean that divines is more flexible, i agree, divines can be offensive or defencive or dps or sustain, that is why it is sought after so much. but as i have shown mathematically, invigorating is a good trade off when only considering the sustain side of divines. and invigorating, i can not stress this enough, MUCH better then prosperous.

There isn't a reason to use Divines with regen mundus - divines is a PvE trait and in PvE you use the mundus which provides highest DPS (usually Warrior/Apprentice).

And of course Invigorating is a better trait than Prosperous, I don't think anyone is debating that (well, except maybe people who enjoyed farming gold with Prosperous gear). The point is that it's still not worth using, not in PvE & not in PvP.

You clearly don't heal or tank. I see a LOT of both with the atro. And I have seen more then a few Stam dps with the serpent. Granted tank use sturdy, there are plenty of healers that use the atro. Just keep in mind that not all choices need to be BiS all the time. Also the warrior/apprentice thing is a new phenomenon, used to be only thief was used, for everyone but tanks, it was that much better and was so for a long time.

Yes, they do. Unless you're a casual player who doesn't really care about min-maxing - in which case you shouldn't post on forum threads about game balance.

The reason Thief & Shadow munduses fell out of favor is the last patch which nerfed their values & buffed Warrior etc to be more competitive with Shadow & Thief. Due to the way modifiers work, you can still get better benefit from Shadow mundus on a gank build if you build for high skill tooltips - so it's still BiS for some niche builds.

They did go a bit overboard with Thief nerfs though - that mundus isn't worth using over Warrior even with things like crit surge/briarheart etc.

The point is that there should be a situation where each trait/mundus is BiS in a certain scenario.

There is no scenario where Invigorating is BiS [PvE=Divines, PvP=Impregnable/Sturdy/(Infused for max magicka builds)].

You talk about game balance, invigorating is a trait made for regen. You have to balance that against regen sourses, and the only source for regen from armor traits is Divines with a regen mundas. Not everything is a dps issue. I use invigorating on my healer warden and use 4 pieces of it, with infused body for max magic, the Stam regen I get from it is the only way that I can get stam regen AND magic regen. Doesn't that make it BiS for me? It really seems like you need to get out the dps mindset you have.

One more time, the difference between infused on the big pieces and Divines with a DPS mundas almost nothing.

And good job summarizing the last patch.

Lastly, it is not impregnable, it is impenetrable.

Oops, I keep mixing it up with the item set in my head

But no, it's not just a DPS mindset. Even if you do use regen mundus as healer, Divines is still better - you don't need stam regen in PvE for anything but CC breaks and occasional block, and the base stam regen is more than enough for that.

In PvP, if you're a healer you're always better off with 7x Impenetrable (27% crit resistance) than 77 (base) stam/magicka/health regen, Sturdy if you run S&B and/or Infused (atleast on large pieces) if you run dmg shields.

You keep saying divines is always better. I have shown you that infused is just as good, in some cases better, this means that it is not always. Please acknowledge this fact.

For magicka builds with enough modifiers, sure. Not for stamina, divines is always better.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

I have also gave you a use case, my warden with a Stam skill usage where I need the extra Stam regen, you have not acknowledge that either. I have now played every class, Stam and magic, to max rank and completed all content on my main healer and most of the other dps. I understand the game at a meta level. But the meta is really only 5-7% ahead of the rest. This leaves options open. You need to acknowledge this too.

So let me get this straight: you play a stam shalks using magicka Warden and you claim to "understand the meta", because you've "completed all content"?

SMH I'm out of here.

Emma_Overload · September 2017

Is this a joke? Invigorating needs a MASSIVE buff to be even the slightest bit appealing. Needs the regen to be doubled at least, probably tripled.

D0PAMINE · September 2017

something I thought about earlier

AbysmalGhul · September 2017

Where is the good news that was promised?

Lirkin · September 2017

I like the regen for all three but stronger than now.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

For a new thread.

The regen mundases (mundai?) give 238 regen at base, so 7.5% of that is 18. The invigorating trait gives 11 per stat, so with invigorating you get 60% of the regen of mundas but for each stat, so a total addtion of base regen of stats of 33, not sure how much more you would want it to give to make it "significant". The math is easy. Invigorating is much better then prosperous and much better then people give it credit for.

but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread.

Nijey wrote: »

to: @ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi all,
thanks to ZOS for creating this interesting trait.

Invigorating give 11 (legendary) magicka, stamina, and health recovery for piece.
7 pieces: 77 reg mag, stam and health.

Let's talk clearly.. maybe prosperous was more usefull... But I like your idea. It only needs little improvement in my opinion.

Is possibile thinking to associate that reg to the type of armor and triplicate bonus?

Example:

Heavy armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Health Regen
Light armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Magicka Regen
Medium armor - Invigorating trait = +33 Stamina Regen
Shields = 11/11/11 reg.

Is this case the trait will be not too powerfull, But interesting enough not to be thrown away.

Please community give your opinion.

thanks to all.

in all honesty just bumping up the base amount to 15 and increasing in 3-4's per tier is enough to make it viable

if you bump it up that choice , there would be no reason to use divines with a regen mundas. you would only be losing 12% of the regen and gain so much regen for your off stat that it would be silly to use anything else, thus losing variety of choice.

i am not exactly sure what " but sacrificing the diversity of other outputs for thus weak spread." mean but i will try to respond. if you mean that divines is more flexible, i agree, divines can be offensive or defencive or dps or sustain, that is why it is sought after so much. but as i have shown mathematically, invigorating is a good trade off when only considering the sustain side of divines. and invigorating, i can not stress this enough, MUCH better then prosperous.

There isn't a reason to use Divines with regen mundus - divines is a PvE trait and in PvE you use the mundus which provides highest DPS (usually Warrior/Apprentice).

And of course Invigorating is a better trait than Prosperous, I don't think anyone is debating that (well, except maybe people who enjoyed farming gold with Prosperous gear). The point is that it's still not worth using, not in PvE & not in PvP.

You clearly don't heal or tank. I see a LOT of both with the atro. And I have seen more then a few Stam dps with the serpent. Granted tank use sturdy, there are plenty of healers that use the atro. Just keep in mind that not all choices need to be BiS all the time. Also the warrior/apprentice thing is a new phenomenon, used to be only thief was used, for everyone but tanks, it was that much better and was so for a long time.

Yes, they do. Unless you're a casual player who doesn't really care about min-maxing - in which case you shouldn't post on forum threads about game balance.

The reason Thief & Shadow munduses fell out of favor is the last patch which nerfed their values & buffed Warrior etc to be more competitive with Shadow & Thief. Due to the way modifiers work, you can still get better benefit from Shadow mundus on a gank build if you build for high skill tooltips - so it's still BiS for some niche builds.

They did go a bit overboard with Thief nerfs though - that mundus isn't worth using over Warrior even with things like crit surge/briarheart etc.

The point is that there should be a situation where each trait/mundus is BiS in a certain scenario.

There is no scenario where Invigorating is BiS [PvE=Divines, PvP=Impregnable/Sturdy/(Infused for max magicka builds)].

You talk about game balance, invigorating is a trait made for regen. You have to balance that against regen sourses, and the only source for regen from armor traits is Divines with a regen mundas. Not everything is a dps issue. I use invigorating on my healer warden and use 4 pieces of it, with infused body for max magic, the Stam regen I get from it is the only way that I can get stam regen AND magic regen. Doesn't that make it BiS for me? It really seems like you need to get out the dps mindset you have.

One more time, the difference between infused on the big pieces and Divines with a DPS mundas almost nothing.

And good job summarizing the last patch.

Lastly, it is not impregnable, it is impenetrable.

Oops, I keep mixing it up with the item set in my head

But no, it's not just a DPS mindset. Even if you do use regen mundus as healer, Divines is still better - you don't need stam regen in PvE for anything but CC breaks and occasional block, and the base stam regen is more than enough for that.

In PvP, if you're a healer you're always better off with 7x Impenetrable (27% crit resistance) than 77 (base) stam/magicka/health regen, Sturdy if you run S&B and/or Infused (atleast on large pieces) if you run dmg shields.

You keep saying divines is always better. I have shown you that infused is just as good, in some cases better, this means that it is not always. Please acknowledge this fact.

For magicka builds with enough modifiers, sure. Not for stamina, divines is always better.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

I have also gave you a use case, my warden with a Stam skill usage where I need the extra Stam regen, you have not acknowledge that either. I have now played every class, Stam and magic, to max rank and completed all content on my main healer and most of the other dps. I understand the game at a meta level. But the meta is really only 5-7% ahead of the rest. This leaves options open. You need to acknowledge this too.

So let me get this straight: you play a stam shalks using magicka Warden and you claim to "understand the meta", because you've "completed all content"?

SMH I'm out of here.

Why wouldn't I use the only source of mass major armor and spell bebuffs in the game. I think you have nothing to say about this, as you see Divines as the end all be all for everything pve and there is no way to buff this trait with out making it more powerful then Divines with regen mundas. So good luck guy.

Lirkin wrote: »

I like the regen for all three but stronger than now.

By how much? Look at the math and it is quite good, if you think this triat need buffing then you have to thing dovines with a regen mundas need it too.

Betsararie · September 2017

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Where is the good news that was promised?

QFT

idk · September 2017

The idea screws tanks. 33 health regen is a complete joke. Not that any tank would seriously consider the trait, but might have to deal with a piece until getting the desired trait.

Thrymbauld · September 2017

I still don't see anything particularly good with it.

A buff could make it a very good trait, but as it sits, I think folks are doing the math in an odd way.

The way I look at it as that the 77 sustain every two seconds from a full set takes about a minute and a half to make 3500 of a resource. That's one more button push every minute and a half(3500/38.5=90.9, gotten with the 77 cut in half to create a per second number, then dividing into 3500).

A great many fights last less than a minute and a half, which means you won't quite get a full button press on a 3500 cost ability. In fact, your spammable that you're using is probably 1500 or so resource, you're looking at one extra of those every 38.9 seconds!

In other words, from a DPS standpoint, you've gained absolutely nothing on a fight less than 38.9 seconds, and at best gained one button press for every 38.9 seconds the fight lasts---and that assumes you didn't have enough sustain to make that button press without this trait, and you probably did---if so, it continues to literally be useless, right up until you've run out of resources that you'd have otherwise had anyway.

Having to heavy attack because you're out before this has made up that time actually extends the time until you've capitalized on your invigorating sustain gain because the fraction of a button press "carries over" until you've acquired enough to skip a heavy attack. It is entirely conceivable that the vast majority of fights will not yield anything at all that allows survival, or utility, or a button press that shortens the fight by that amount(dps gain).

It's a fine line trait, obviously. Too strong and you'll be able to survive nearly anything and spam abilities without regard to resources. Too little though, and there is no gain from it whatsoever, and as best I can see that's exactly where it sits right now.

I think the actual, appropriate number for this is exactly the one that was discovered a long time ago for jewelry---if your entire armor set, minus class sustain passives equals a single jewelry enchant(three enchants actually, one magicka/one health/one stamina), I think that'd be an appropriate number, and one that a person could take further using it to build by choosing different gear(sets without sustain on them).

Banana · September 2017

Gone from the game would be good news

Biro123 · September 2017

D0PAMINE wrote: »

something I thought about earlier

Already tried it. Struggled a little for recov of main resource.. Also struggled with other stats since drinks were needed to make the most out of it.

Ended up using trainee of all things with it to compensate.

I think it could use a little boost.

Fuxo · September 2017

I would suggest that health regen is removed and stamina/magicka regen is increased to 15. Would make it not as good as divines for single resource, but useful for certain builds that need a better regen for another pool.

Teletesselator · September 2017

Yup, "Invigorating" is a total waste of loot-space. I'm deconstructing any and all of it. 33 H, M, and S is near enough to completely ineffectual that it's pretty obviously trash. At ten times that one might actually notice some difference. So 330 H, M, and S... yeah, OK, I could agree with that. 33 = ROFLMAO!!!

danno8 · September 2017

Teletesselator wrote: »

Yup, "Invigorating" is a total waste of loot-space. I'm deconstructing any and all of it. 33 H, M, and S is near enough to completely ineffectual that it's pretty obviously trash. At ten times that one might actually notice some difference. So 330 H, M, and S... yeah, OK, I could agree with that. 33 = ROFLMAO!!!

33? You mean 77?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · September 2017

To sum up this whole is basically the last trait was like getting shot and this one is like getting stabbed. So you see it's not bad cause I would rather be stabbed then shot.

This trait sucks would I wear it no Study is no BiS for non tanks but you do block so it useful at times, well fitted is not for non stamina build but you do roll at times so it can be used till you get a better trait who cares about 10 more regen cause who golds this trait.

SquareSausage · September 2017

Ye its crap. stop defending it.

There is pretty much no build out there that is semi decent that could make use of this trait, other traits are far superior in every role, PvP or PVE. You want the highest base rate of regen for your main stat to buff it by CP, armour passives and racial passives, not some crappy low value across all 3 with 2 not recieving any buff at all. So even divines/regen mundus is far superior in the only instance in the game were it is 'close'.

Its not even a niche trait, its just rubbish.