StrawberryKitsune wrote: »

I am legit getting to the point of paying for a run. Can't find a progress group that fits with my work schedule (as much as I'd love to play all day, my days of being a student are over and I have little kitten mouths to feed and bills to pay) and one that does regular dedicated runs of Maw. I just want the skin. I think it is the only skin (in my opinion) that actually looks worthwhile.

As good as it was for the experience, I'm also getting really bored of running the Craglorn trials over and over when I am able to join in. Seems paying may be my only option at this point.

Feeling a bit like this myself. I really want the dro m'athra skin to finish off the look of one of my characters, and while I am working on the Craggy trials, the skin isn't getting any closer - at least that's how it feels!

Everyone deserve the equal chance to play a game. If we start charging people for skins, achievements and whatever other stuff one might think about, we will end up charging everyone for everything, even for a simple random normal dungeon. This will ultimately destroy the game. You can already earn some extra money by crafting certain gear, selling stuff, farming etc. Why would someone like to profit from a not so experienced player or someone with less time at his disposal.

Also this idea will only make players hates each other even more than before. People start to avoid playing with each other...

On top of that go imagine that awkward situation where everyone in game wear proudly the vMOL or vHOF skin and join your raids and they will destroy your raid simply because have absolutely no idea what to do because you carried them. Or a carried player manage somehow to steal your spot in a raid, although you are way more experienced than them, simply because they finished for ex a vhof hard mode raid while you are still progressing on 4th or even last boss.

Also:
Some guilds train people for months and they do that for free.
Some guilds carried hundreds of players for free.
If today you carry one player tomorrow another you will end up wasting time carrying everyone instead of progressing too. Which will hold your group from becoming better in the first place.
If you carry one, then another at some point everyone might decide to get themselves carried and you might end up in the situation where you can't find players anymore to train in a raid or progress and finish one.
Every idea of making money have its advantages and disadvantages and everyone is free to do whatever they like. But I hope this will give u a better insight of why the idea of carrying someone is bad.

Anyway in my opinion acquiring the skin should be tied to a several series of events such as completing a raid more than just once, and beating certain milestones like less and less deaths with each progression, better time, better score, etc.

Ultimately, If you want to be a hired hand just go for it as long as not everyone will turn into mercenaries. :P

Meh, you do you!

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

@Anne_Firehawk are you serious about the carry for 1m? I might be interested.

I care little for pve but the skin does hide ugly ass vamp so it's very nice.

We carried quite a lot of people since I wrote that. Will ask around if people are interested.

I might also be interested if you're on PC EU. Same name in-game. Though I can also put in some effort as well as just tag along!

People pay others to do Vet Maelstrom for them.
People pay for trial carries.
People pay for VDSA carries.
People pay for Emperor.
People *** pay for level carries.

Can and do they do it? Yes.
Do I agree with it? Yes and No.

Dexter411 wrote: »

I can not believe what I am seeing here.
My opinion is simple: You get skin and title alongside of gear for something. Try, fail, work and succeed.
You don't have time for weeks of preparations? You don't want to search for people? It's shame then, no skin for You.

This is very mean-spirited about something that affects you not at all.

Phinix1 wrote: »

Also, some people have other reasons. Some people for example are disabled (speaking from personal experience). It's tough to pull off veteran trial content after having a stroke that screws with your motor control. In such cases I don't see how paying for a cosmetic item you personally feel makes your character look cool has anything to do with trophies or epeens or comparisons.

Very much this. We're not all spring chickens and I am prepared to not be total dead weight - and it will give me a good opportunity to learn it as well as get the skin which I really want to complete a character's appearance.

Artis wrote: »

If they carried them - they know they carried them.... Also - no raid that can carry people can do it because their only requirement is showing the skin. You don't invite strangers to a raid just because they have a skin. You require a DPS test or to look at their gear etc.

And while less experienced player can steal your spot - again it is unlikely. Because if a group is recruiting to fill that spot they will run with each of the candidates and compare their performance, not just look at their skin.

Thats true.
I can't think of any decent group that would accept someone just because they have vMoL/vHoF skin... Usually they would require dps parses (dummy and trial bosses), and even if they wont for some reason, the lack of experience would be obvious after the first run. Someone who got carried and spent 90% of the trial as a dead body on the floor cant perform as good as someone who actually learned trial mechanics etc. Dying all the time, not posting dps... That would raise questions.

I honestly will never charge people in game for anything but droppable loot that I don't want, or things that I make specifically to sell. I either have the time/resources/inclination to help, or I don't.

I just fundamentally don't like the idea of selling access, I've never done that sort've thing in any mmo since they came out. I don't really care if anybody else is that greedy and I don't care about holding anybody to the standards of conduct that I hold myself to, but I won't participate myself.

AlienSlof wrote: »

Dexter411 wrote: »

I can not believe what I am seeing here.
My opinion is simple: You get skin and title alongside of gear for something. Try, fail, work and succeed.
You don't have time for weeks of preparations? You don't want to search for people? It's shame then, no skin for You.

This is very mean-spirited about something that affects you not at all.

How is that not affecting me? I would love to get skin and title(same with so many cool costumes and skins I will not be able to get), but right now I am not ready for it.
Slowly I am making my character stronger and as I play I am getting better. Later on I will tackle vet trials and hopefully get what I wrote above.

Still my question is unanswered. Back in the day when people where glitching Maw and they got skin for free, pretty much, people were furious. Question is: What is difference between glitching/bugging and paying for being carried? In both cases You don't deserve it.

Shadzilla wrote: »

It is well known around the community that helping someone through any sort of PVE content for gold is completely legal, legitimate, and does not break the terms of service. On the other hand... Is it unethical, immoral, or frowned upon? I have had some negative feedback from a few people saying that it should not be done, even though it does not break any rules. I think if a group of players that have attained enough skill/experience over the years and can do some of the hardest PVE content with only 11 players, they should have no regrets about selling their time and skills for gold. Please share opinions!

agree, put your hard earned skill to use. sell the service, just like they do in china

code65536 wrote: »

LOL. @Shadzilla finding a way to advertise his services on the forum while disguising it as a "discussion".

It's a bit like "adult entertainment", I suppose. People on both sides of the transaction are hush about it (except for Shad of course), but the skin is too enticing for the buyer, and the gold is too shiny for the seller (particularly since many endgame players are strapped for cash, though Shad here is an exception and is quite loaded), and so it happens despite people's public protestations.

Eh, whatever. I suspect most of the people who buy it just want it for the cosmetics rather than as a badge of prestige.

There are honestly a fair amount of people who were carried through their clears who still pretend they worked super hard for it, which is frustrating to those who actually did.

This isn't to flame OP, but I thought the same thing too, since he was one of the people involved in selling the Grand Overlord furnishing scrolls, which ZOS failed to reprimand anyone for, despite banning people in the past for purposefully exploiting the banker+writ bug that rewarded significantly less ingame gold by comparison. But then again, a lot of notable players were involved in that.

I think for the question posed by OP that it's one of those inevitable things with MMOs that have difficult content. Those who beat it legitimately will despise those who were carried, as well as those who did the carrying in exchange for gold. Personally I think that it's kind of dirty and I do think the prostitution analogy is pretty spot on, but as per the terms of service there's nothing wrong with it,
As a side part to this, I'm not bashing those who would carry friends through, as it's not really the same, but rather those who would advertise this, like one of the first guilds on PC NA selling carries for 13mill immediately after they began clearing Maw consistently.

I get that some people want the skins from the trials, and that it's hard to find a way into the endgame community and get those clears, if you are not familiar with anyone, but at the same time I think the rewards are also intended for those who would actually put in the effort, and not so much for those who just like the way they look. I see these hard-to-obtain rewards as a just prize for putting in a lot of hours to beat something.

Give it a few months and they'll sell better-looking skins in the crown store, since that seems to be the new trend now ...

To me the most interesting question is where a carry starts and ends. Is it a carry if you can bring a solid contribution which isn't quite up to progression group standards (aka 35k+ DPS) and just don't know the trial that well? Or does a carry mean you don't or can't contribute to the group effort in a meaningful way at all?