Yeah. Stamina clearly really really really really needs superior AoE damage on top of superior single target damage. How could ZOS not see this.

DPShiro wrote: »

Sure, right after Magicka classes get;

• Blade Cloak (much better than shield)
• Equally fast Heavy Attacks
• Option to equip 2 weapons to get another set piece bonus (Magicka weapons)
• Equal Single Target damage
• Support sets such as NMG, SF, Morag Tong

You member when magic classes had higher AOE damage,Higher single target damage and still have better survivability.

And you need to learn how to disable caps lock .

No we don't. We have high single DPS.

DPShiro wrote: »

Sure, right after Magicka classes get;

• Blade Cloak (much better than shield)
• Equally fast Heavy Attacks
• Option to equip 2 weapons to get another set piece bonus (Magicka weapons)
• Equal Single Target damage
• Support sets such as NMG, SF, Morag Tong

One thing I'm going to call you on right now is that blade cloak is somehow better than wards. Cloak doesn't stop damage from hitting your health, it only blocks more than shielding does if it were to take 80k damage (assuming only 20k shielding) to equal the mitigation a shield casts, and in both situations you'd die at that number anyway. Cloak is also exclusively aoe, where ward can save you from a 20k direct attack.

Rest, agree. We don't need a physical or poison eye of the storm on perma dodging stam builds, let alone in trials.

Here's an idea for you OP: If you want the equivalent to Destro Ult, use Destro Ult.

Ult's scale of max resource, so nothing preventing you from slotting it, bar the loss of a weapon line, that is...

DPShiro wrote: »

Sure, right after Magicka classes get;

• Blade Cloak (much better than shield)
• Equally fast Heavy Attacks
• Option to equip 2 weapons to get another set piece bonus (Magicka weapons)
• Equal Single Target damage
• Support sets such as NMG, SF, Morag Tong

Srsly bladecloak better than shield...what didi you smoke? ^^
Bladecloak doesnt block directdmg, dotdmg, cannot save you from certain oneshots like a shield

Heavyatt speed is only superior on DW, jeah maybe a little increase on staff would do but definetly not equal to DW

2 weapons, well you can slot 2 swords for 5% more dps and then you have your 2 set pieces (magplar buff pls ^^)

When Single traget dps is equal, then there's again no point on running any stam players in a raid group

Support sets, im gona ask for what?
Magicka has 4,8k pen in light armor, when they remove that passive then for sure give magicka support sets.
Mag Dk's can provide engulfing for 10% more firedmg, which also is increased by 8% for single target dps.

On Stam you are forced to run TFS, SF++NMG cause you need the penetration, which is for free for magicka users, think about that.
Yes if you have more than 3 stam dd's in your group all stams (except the 3 wearing NMG, SF, MT) get a huge dps buff that true, but anyways its risky to run more than 4 or maybe 5 stam dds.

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Sure, right after Magicka classes get;

• Blade Cloak (much better than shield)
• Equally fast Heavy Attacks
• Option to equip 2 weapons to get another set piece bonus (Magicka weapons)
• Equal Single Target damage
• Support sets such as NMG, SF, Morag Tong

Srsly bladecloak better than shield...what didi you smoke? ^^
Bladecloak doesnt block directdmg, dotdmg, cannot save you from certain oneshots like a shield

Heavyatt speed is only superior on DW, jeah maybe a little increase on staff would do but definetly not equal to DW

2 weapons, well you can slot 2 swords for 5% more dps and then you have your 2 set pieces (magplar buff pls ^^)

When Single traget dps is equal, then there's again no point on running any stam players in a raid group

Support sets, im gona ask for what?
Magicka has 4,8k pen in light armor, when they remove that passive then for sure give magicka support sets.
Mag Dk's can provide engulfing for 10% more firedmg, which also is increased by 8% for single target dps.

On Stam you are forced to run TFS, SF++NMG cause you need the penetration, which is for free for magicka users, think about that.
Yes if you have more than 3 stam dd's in your group all stams (except the 3 wearing NMG, SF, MT) get a huge dps buff that true, but anyways its risky to run more than 4 or maybe 5 stam dds.

WTS [Essence of Spelling, Potent]

I seriously tried to read a few sentences, but deciphering this is probably not worth it.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Sure, right after Magicka classes get;

• Blade Cloak (much better than shield)
• Equally fast Heavy Attacks
• Option to equip 2 weapons to get another set piece bonus (Magicka weapons)
• Equal Single Target damage
• Support sets such as NMG, SF, Morag Tong

One thing I'm going to call you on right now is that blade cloak is somehow better than wards. Cloak doesn't stop damage from hitting your health, it only blocks more than shielding does if it were to take 80k damage (assuming only 20k shielding) to equal the mitigation a shield casts, and in both situations you'd die at that number anyway. Cloak is also exclusively aoe, where ward can save you from a 20k direct attack.

Rest, agree. We don't need a physical or poison eye of the storm on perma dodging stam builds, let alone in trials.

I have a much easier time surviving in vHoF HM on Stamina with blade cloak than on a mag DD with Harness/Ward. And it's passive as well, I don't need to recast it after each hit, which is affecting DPS.

Dead dps does 0 damage. I will gladly, any day and twice on Sunday, trade you blade cloak for ward. We'll even make ward only work on one skill line and make the magicka blade cloak universal.

I think in long, low aoe dmg fights it helps the healers and dulls the edge of dmg incoming on the group. Literally any other situation at all though...

That is a such an overused cliché and doesn't apply.
If you die, you are bad, or someone in your team is.

With blade cloak survival is equal, sure you may have to step back from red sometimes, but still doesn't come close to having the damage mitigation passively and not wasting time/dps casting shields.

DPShiro wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Sure, right after Magicka classes get;

• Blade Cloak (much better than shield)
• Equally fast Heavy Attacks
• Option to equip 2 weapons to get another set piece bonus (Magicka weapons)
• Equal Single Target damage
• Support sets such as NMG, SF, Morag Tong

One thing I'm going to call you on right now is that blade cloak is somehow better than wards. Cloak doesn't stop damage from hitting your health, it only blocks more than shielding does if it were to take 80k damage (assuming only 20k shielding) to equal the mitigation a shield casts, and in both situations you'd die at that number anyway. Cloak is also exclusively aoe, where ward can save you from a 20k direct attack.

Rest, agree. We don't need a physical or poison eye of the storm on perma dodging stam builds, let alone in trials.

I have a much easier time surviving in vHoF HM on Stamina with blade cloak than on a mag DD with Harness/Ward. And it's passive as well, I don't need to recast it after each hit, which is affecting DPS.

Dead dps does 0 damage. I will gladly, any day and twice on Sunday, trade you blade cloak for ward. We'll even make ward only work on one skill line and make the magicka blade cloak universal.

I think in long, low aoe dmg fights it helps the healers and dulls the edge of dmg incoming on the group. Literally any other situation at all though...

That is a such an overused cliché and doesn't apply.
If you die, you are bad, or someone in your team is.

With blade cloak survival is equal, sure you may have to step back from red sometimes, but still doesn't come close to having the damage mitigation passively and not wasting time/dps casting shields.

Bold is where you confuse me. It's bad to take 1 second to shield up, but it's okay to leave the boss' immediate presence to not die, even at the expense of damage.

Huh?

And yes, if you have defenses and die not using them because you want to do more damage, that is very much the mark of a bad player, not a bad healer. Agreed.

DPShiro wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Sure, right after Magicka classes get;

• Blade Cloak (much better than shield)
• Equally fast Heavy Attacks
• Option to equip 2 weapons to get another set piece bonus (Magicka weapons)
• Equal Single Target damage
• Support sets such as NMG, SF, Morag Tong

Srsly bladecloak better than shield...what didi you smoke? ^^
Bladecloak doesnt block directdmg, dotdmg, cannot save you from certain oneshots like a shield

Heavyatt speed is only superior on DW, jeah maybe a little increase on staff would do but definetly not equal to DW

2 weapons, well you can slot 2 swords for 5% more dps and then you have your 2 set pieces (magplar buff pls ^^)

When Single traget dps is equal, then there's again no point on running any stam players in a raid group

Support sets, im gona ask for what?
Magicka has 4,8k pen in light armor, when they remove that passive then for sure give magicka support sets.
Mag Dk's can provide engulfing for 10% more firedmg, which also is increased by 8% for single target dps.

On Stam you are forced to run TFS, SF++NMG cause you need the penetration, which is for free for magicka users, think about that.
Yes if you have more than 3 stam dd's in your group all stams (except the 3 wearing NMG, SF, MT) get a huge dps buff that true, but anyways its risky to run more than 4 or maybe 5 stam dds.

WTS [Essence of Spelling, Potent]

I seriously tried to read a few sentences, but deciphering this is probably not worth it.

Yeah it's a shame the drop rate on the Aetheric Cipher is so low.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Trying to understand why everyone wants to run stam in trials again if single target is equal. Please do explain? It is not for their great AoE damage.

When Single Target Dps is Equal for stam and magicka users, then there's no point on having stamina players in your raid group.
Because magicka users provide more Aoe dps than stam
Single Target dps we said would be equal.
Magicka users are "safer" due to their shields

So when stam and magicka single Target dps would be equal. This would make stamina users overall less worth in a Trial group than Magicka would be.

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Sure, right after Magicka classes get;

• Blade Cloak (much better than shield)
• Equally fast Heavy Attacks
• Option to equip 2 weapons to get another set piece bonus (Magicka weapons)
• Equal Single Target damage
• Support sets such as NMG, SF, Morag Tong

Srsly bladecloak better than shield...what didi you smoke? ^^
Bladecloak doesnt block directdmg, dotdmg, cannot save you from certain oneshots like a shield

Heavyatt speed is only superior on DW, jeah maybe a little increase on staff would do but definetly not equal to DW

2 weapons, well you can slot 2 swords for 5% more dps and then you have your 2 set pieces (magplar buff pls ^^)

When Single traget dps is equal, then there's again no point on running any stam players in a raid group

Support sets, im gona ask for what?
Magicka has 4,8k pen in light armor, when they remove that passive then for sure give magicka support sets.
Mag Dk's can provide engulfing for 10% more firedmg, which also is increased by 8% for single target dps.

On Stam you are forced to run TFS, SF++NMG cause you need the penetration, which is for free for magicka users, think about that.
Yes if you have more than 3 stam dd's in your group all stams (except the 3 wearing NMG, SF, MT) get a huge dps buff that true, but anyways its risky to run more than 4 or maybe 5 stam dds.

Blade Cloak is way better than a shield: it doesn't make you lose your DPS, all the damage you take in a raid is AoEs anyway, only the tanks eat the single target damage.

When ST DPS is equal you can literally come on any class into a raid, so if people want to play stam they still can.

Support sets don't have to support with penetration. (You're going to have be a little more english on that second sentence, it doesn't make any sense)

On stam, no one runs TFS anymore in raids. Its not risky to run 4 or 5 stamina DPS either. The usual number at the moment is 4. Ideally 2 DKs, 1 NB, 1 Temp. You could set up the debuff sets like this for example:
DK1: Morag Tong + Hunding's
DK2: Sunderflame + Hunding's/Alkosh
NB: War Machine + NMG
Temp: War Machine + Alkosh/Hunding's
Tanks: Alkosh, Powerful Assault and Infused Crusher enchants.
You're at penetration cap easy. No need for TFS. Everyone does higher DPS, due to the fact that everyone is wearing a support set and a "damage" set. Of course you could get 2 buff *** and 2 DPS with pure damage gear. But dividing the support sets evenly among the players in your group is a much better strategy: if a buff *** dies, you don't lose all the debuffs or if a full on DPS dies, you don't lose 60k DPS. Group DPS stays the same, individual DPS is evened out. Its called team work. the more team work you have in a raid the better, because isn't that the entire point of doing raids? So I'm all for magicka getting support sets that actually make a difference (not like Destructive Mage...). That way, you'd get both stamina players working together for more group DPS and magicka working together for more group DPS. More group DPS for everyone. What's wrong with that? Or do you only want the team work aspect to be present in half of the team?

I only play stamina. But what you're saying is totally biased, it seems you don't want balance, it seems you just want to have stamina in your raids. And frankly, your post makes stamina look much weaker than they really are.

My mate @DPShiro has probably been on the leaderboards more often than you and he clearly has a much better idea of what he's talking about in this subject. Show some respect and don't try to argue with his posts when all you have is false claims. Don't try to argue with anyone just for the sake of arguing anyway.

Np, but give magickas additional enchant, armor piece and access to minor force in mages' guild tree.

Guessing most people haven't actually tried HM Trials since Blade Cloak got buffed, it's insanely good, especially since many of the bosses attacks are now re-classified as AoE.

I'm speaking strictly from endgame PVE perspective.

Oh and stam AoE bad? Have you seen the damage Endless Hail, Caltrops etc does?

I agree Stamina should have higher ST DPS and Magicka higher AoE DPS, not every class/spec should be the same and diversity is needed.