Nerf Warden's Shimmering Shield

Trinotops · September 2017

Secluded Grove: An insane AoE heal that can have a 100% uptime without too much investment into ult gen. I think its cost should be increased to 100 so that it's more in-line with other defensive ultimates like shield wall and resto ult.

Shimmering Shield: Although the base skill is a pretty weak, this morph makes it a little too strong. I feel that such a strong buff as major heroism should't be so easily attainable through a single skill. Make it so that the caster only gets major heroism if all 3 projectiles are absorbed the major heroism only last 3 seconds instead of 6 because a morph effect giving 12 ultimate (or potentially more than 12 as it currently is) from a single cast is too much. Or so that the caster only gets 1.5 seconds of Major Heroism on each absorb instead of 6 seconds (this might seem like too harsh of a nerf, but compared to my other suggestion it would be more viable to Warden Tanks in PvE and would still be decent in PvP if the base skill was also buffed.)

EDIT: I originally wanted a nerf to Secluded Grove but after doing some testing with both morphs of the skill "Enchanted Forest" and "Healing Thicket" I've found that Healing Thicket, the morph of Secluded Grove that I personally use and based my statement off of, appears to be healing for more than intended. If this is truly the case then I believe that Secluded Grove should not be nerfed and instead Healing Thicket gets fixed so that it heals for the proper ammount. You can find the results of my testing here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369903/healing-thicket-double-ticking/p1?new=1

deadvolt · September 2017

So nerf us because you can't deal with two skills lool while there at nerf sorc Shields also go ahead and need nb cloak sure it's not fair I can't see them my god sum people just want everything nerfed

Vaoh · September 2017

"Nerf whatever makes that class stand a chance against me. Ty for fair balance ZOS."

That's what this sounds like to me. Every class is strong and has very powerful skills that are unique to them.

Templars can provide an even bigger heal with Major Protection added and they have a skill that purges 5 negative effects. Should this all get nerfed? A Dragonknight gains resources on Ult cast and has amazing DoTs, as well as an ability that reflects 4 projectiles.... should they get nerfed? A Nightblade can put out great burst, use a powerful skill that grants a long duration inherent Minor Beserk, and go invisible - should they get nerfed? A Sorcerer can streak around, use Dark Deal and Negate enemies which is a crucial part of PvP - nerf them too?

Every class is "OP" right now in their own way. The only class that legitimately underperforms quite drastically is Warden in PvE content for DPS. Everywhere else (PvE tank/heaker, all PvP specs) they are not bad. However, Warden is not OP. You can literally make then useless by rooting them because Scorch travels in wherever their character is facing, and Shimmering Shield is buggy and can shatter every tick of certain abilities. Keep in mind that whenever a Warden summons their little forest, they don't have a Damage-dealing Ult ready since this is an Ult they are using just to survive.

Solariken · September 2017

deadvolt wrote: »

So nerf us because you can't deal with two skills lool while there at nerf sorc Shields also go ahead and need nb cloak sure it's not fair I can't see them my god sum people just want everything nerfed

He can deal with fighting against these skills as well as anyone... He also didn't mention it but OP plays a stamwarden at a pretty high level and knows how to use these skills to the fullest.

The ult cost is a bit low for all it does IMO, that could be increased maybe to 100.

Major Heroism on Shimmering seems ok to me if all three slabs are broken by projectiles. In other words if you cast the shield but only absorb one projectile before it expires, no Major Heroism for you.

Trinotops · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Warden is not OP. You can literally make then useless by rooting them because Scorch travels in wherever their character is facing, and Shimmering Shield is buggy and can shatter every tick of certain abilities. Keep in mind that whenever a Warden summons their little forest, they don't have a Damage-dealing Ult ready since this is an Ult they are using just to survive.

I didn't say Warden was OP, I merely said that Warden has two skills that are performing a little too well. Also I don't understand your argument with scorch. It's a very strong skill and has much needed counters just like how wrecking blow and crystal frags are dodgeable and meteor is blockable, but that doesn't mean they're under-powered, right? You might argue that Secluded Grove is a strong skill and is countered by defile, but even if enemy players have the uncommon AoE defiles like standard, corrupting pollen, dark flare, or fasalla's that doesn't change the fact that the trees will be up almost the entire fight and will be boosted by major mending which the ultimate can also give. And of course a Warden won't be able to use an offensive ult after using trees thats just how ultimates work. But honestly trees is so strong that doesn't just help players play defensive, but it enables them to play offensive just like shield wall and resto ult.

White wabbit · September 2017

Omg another nerf post L2P why not ask Zos to just give us all pillow cushions to hit everyone with

Trinotops · September 2017

White wabbit wrote: »

Omg another nerf post L2P why not ask Zos to just give us all pillow cushions to hit everyone with

Omg! Another person contributing nothing constructive or intellectual to a thread! I'd understand if this was another one of the countless nerf sorc or nerf nightblade threads and you were just trying to be one of the cool kids and show your disapproval for a pointless post, but I personally haven't seen anyone else bring up these skills which I find to be a bit too strong.

Waffennacht · September 2017

There is no constructive comments to be made here, another cry nerf thread from mediocre players

Brutusmax1mus · September 2017

Both seem fine to me.

All the ultimate does is heal. I prefer resto ultimate on my mag warden. On my stam warden i use it to help an ally, other than that it's dbos all day. Sure it has a high up time, but defile counters that hard. It's an ultimate that only heals, it should do and does that well.

Shimmering is really only a problem on mag wardens bc they can sustain it. Stam wardens have to use this situationally.

These are class defining skills. Every class has very strong skills that make them unique. Can we please keep it that way?

Cadbury · September 2017

As a Templar healer, I approve this topic.

Fight on, OP.

Trinotops · September 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

There is no constructive comments to be made here, another cry nerf thread from mediocre players

"Mediocre". Making assumptions is not a very smart thing to do in a debate (which seems to be what this thread is becoming). I don't mean to gloat but I consider myself to be an above average player with hundreds of hours of experience playing Stamina Warden.

Twohothardware · September 2017

Secluded Grove, Resto Ult, and Shield Wall all three need cost increases. Their uptime are too high and make it too easy to tank damage.

Trinotops · September 2017

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Shimmering is really only a problem on mag wardens bc they can sustain it. Stam wardens have to use this situationally.

Shimmering isn't too hard to sustain on a stamina warden. The only other magicka skill they really use is Ice Fortress and that has a pretty long duration. Then there's heavy armor and nature's gift both of which give back a decent amount of magicka.

SodanTok · September 2017

Twohothardware wrote: »

Secluded Grove, Resto Ult, and Shield Wall all three need cost increases. Their uptime are too high and make it too easy to tank damage.

I would agree with this. While the tree ult is cheap, it is pretty much balanced when we consider these defensive ults too. Nerfing it for the sake of nerf is unwarranted unless all these defensive ults get the same treatment.

Rohamad_Ali · September 2017

The six second shield reduced to 3 seconds would completely break it and make it a resource hog . The healing Ult is on par with most healing Ults . It's not a huge burst of healing but it has a decent run time . Making that any different would put it in a class below .

Trinotops · September 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

The six second shield reduced to 3 seconds would completely break it and make it a resource hog . The healing Ult is on par with most healing Ults . It's not a huge burst of healing but it has a decent run time . Making that any different would put it in a class below .

Hmm. I didn't think about the resource impact, although the skill is relatively cheap. Maybe the skill itself should be buffed so that it's more viable as an absorb and less easy ultimate gen. But I have to disagree about the ultimate. Not even considering its burst heal, it is a very strong HoT (although it might just be Healing Thicket which I think might be bugged and is healing for more than intended). Either way, my issue with it is that both morphs of the ultimate allow for it to have 100% (or at the very least close to 100%) up-time. I personally think it is just as strong as shield wall and resto ult both of which are very difficult (if not impossible) to get 100% up-time on.

Rohamad_Ali · September 2017

Trinotops wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

The six second shield reduced to 3 seconds would completely break it and make it a resource hog . The healing Ult is on par with most healing Ults . It's not a huge burst of healing but it has a decent run time . Making that any different would put it in a class below .

Hmm. I didn't think about the resource impact, although the skill is relatively cheap. Maybe the skill itself should be buffed so that it's more viable as an absorb and less easy ultimate gen. But I have to disagree about the ultimate. Not even considering its burst heal, it is a very strong HoT (although it might just be Healing Thicket which I think might be bugged and is healing for more than intended). Either way, my issue with it is that both morphs of the ultimate allow for it to have 100% (or at the very least close to 100%) up-time. I personally think it is just as strong as shield wall and resto ult both of which are very difficult (if not impossible) to get 100% up-time on.

Healing in general is kind of out of control right now but it has more to do with sets then abilities . When people combine hots with certain sets it just creates groups of light armored tanks but the Devs need to address the cause instead of nerfing classes all the time .

Brutusmax1mus · September 2017

I take back what i said, shimmering shield is strong as hell

KingYogi415 · September 2017

I'm fine with shield. It I think grove should be nerfed by at least 100%

STEVIL · September 2017

Well, looking at the ulti...

seems to me that over about the same time frame the destro ulti does easily more damage over a wider area plus is mobile which matters a lot. of course the destro ulti costs more for that mobility and extra damage and extra range but that seems about right.

So it seems to me reducing the potent AOE HOTs - obviously start with this one then as others have pointed out there are others - will go a long way towards saving the underused and mostly ineffective Destro ults from going extinct, right?

Of course, i could be wrong, but whenever a cry for a nerf comes up my first thought is "what opposition will that help" and when i see it helping an underused and ineffective element like eye of storm, i start to think maybe this is a potential benefit.

Not totally decided yet but... you may be on to something.

And with the impact it would also have on the PVE side of warden play, even as healer, that also seems another side benefit for this nerf, bringing those outlier wardens in PVE more in line by nerfing this, right?

So still on the fence but pondering this novel idea of nerfing potent abilities. they really should consider more of that kind of approach.

:-)

Morgul667 · September 2017

Stop the nerfs

Banana · September 2017

Wardens need a buff not a nerf

thamightyboro · September 2017

I agree that thicket is a bit op but I woyldnt want to see it nerfed until such a time as we had a second stam morph heal.

As things stand a stamwarden healer has 2 skills and thicket is 1 until.they get into pvp and get vigor.

Nerfing grove would outright ruin the only stam healing class in the game.

Well 3 skills if include light heavy lotus spam.

SirCritical · September 2017

Give up pls with these nerf threads.

And if OP plays a Warden and gets advantages from these skills, shouldn't want to nerf them. It's just unnatural. If you feel yourself too strong when using these skills, then don't use them!

It's really an irreal state of mind when someone complains against himself.

And again: let us PvEers play this game against AI with our current (unnerfed, and already-nerfed) skill- and gear-sets, and believe me, mobs won't complain.

Vaoh · September 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

I'm fine with shield. It I think grove should be nerfed by at least 100%

^why ZOS won't talk to us about balance

Liofa · September 2017

Templar healing ulti does :

- More healing
- Gives 16k armor
- Makes you immune to CC
- Has more range
- Snares by 30%
- Gives Major Protection
- Minor Mending

I don't see anyone wanting nerfs to this . Simply superior . It makes you immortal . Only downside is not being able to do anything else during the cast .

Trees can be up with high uptime because that 20 Ultimate procs instantly without meeting requirements . It doesn't need a nerf . It needs a fix . Until it is fixed , cost is basically 55 .

I must say , I do mind Shimmering Shield . I talked about it in Morrowind PTS , how absurd it is to gain a rare buff so easily . I said all 3 shield should be taken down in one cast in order to gain the buff . That would stop the brainless spamming and would lead to smarter gameplay . No changes . Well , whatever .

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2017

SirCritical wrote: »

Give up pls with these nerf threads.

And if OP plays a Warden and gets advantages from these skills, shouldn't want to nerf them. It's just unnatural. If you feel yourself too strong when using these skills, then don't use them!

It's really an irreal state of mind when someone complains against himself.

And again: let us PvEers play this game against AI with our current (unnerfed, and already-nerfed) skill- and gear-sets, and believe me, mobs won't complain.

This is the kind of attitude that *** these balance threads up. "I use it, so I defend it no matter how unbalanced/ broken/ whatever it is". Egoistical to say the least. Maybe I should respec into mag sorc and demand shield buffs and better burst, just bc I play it.

E: who cares about pve when npc can be adjusted at any time.

Brrrofski · September 2017

Tree ult is super strong. I tank on a warden in Pve and with shimmering shield I get it pretty quick.

Tree ult on a Stam warden in PvP without shimmering shield is not always up though. Ice fortress and bird of pretty use a lot of your magica so shimmering shield can't be spammed.

Maybe it's shimmering shield that makes tree ult as strong as it does. Not sure how you address it though. Take away major heroism for minor and it becomes useless on a Pve tank because of heroic slash.

SirCritical · September 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

This is the kind of attitude that *** these balance threads up. "I use it, so I defend it no matter how unbalanced/ broken/ whatever it is". Egoistical to say the least. Maybe I should respec into mag sorc and demand shield buffs and better burst, just bc I play it.

E: who cares about pve when npc can be adjusted at any time.

Hm, I don't use the Shield (while the Forest, yes). What's your point?

Trinotops · September 2017

Liofa wrote: »

Templar healing ulti does :

- More healing
- Gives 16k armor
- Makes you immune to CC
- Has more range
- Snares by 30%
- Gives Major Protection
- Minor Mending

I don't see anyone wanting nerfs to this . Simply superior . It makes you immortal . Only downside is not being able to do anything else during the cast .

Trees can be up with high uptime because that 20 Ultimate procs instantly without meeting requirements . It doesn't need a nerf . It needs a fix . Until it is fixed , cost is basically 55 .

Well of course the templar healing ultimate is stronger but it is also balanced. It costs 125 ultimate and, like you said, has the trade-off of not being able to move in a fight. That immobility and high cost means that a player will have to be smart about when they want to use the ultimate unlike Trees which can be spammed mindlessly to keep a group alive. Speaking of Trees, its up-time doesn't lie just within the morph Enchanted Forest. Healing Thicket can have just as much, if not more, up-time than the other morph with enough investment into ult gen.

WillhelmBlack · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

"Nerf whatever makes that class stand a chance against me. Ty for fair balance ZOS."

That's what this sounds like to me. Every class is strong and has very powerful skills that are unique to them.

Templars can provide an even bigger heal with Major Protection added and they have a skill that purges 5 negative effects. Should this all get nerfed? A Dragonknight gains resources on Ult cast and has amazing DoTs, as well as an ability that reflects 4 projectiles.... should they get nerfed? A Nightblade can put out great burst, use a powerful skill that grants a long duration inherent Minor Beserk, and go invisible - should they get nerfed? A Sorcerer can streak around, use Dark Deal and Negate enemies which is a crucial part of PvP - nerf them too?

Every class is "OP" right now in their own way. The only class that legitimately underperforms quite drastically is Warden in PvE content for DPS. Everywhere else (PvE tank/heaker, all PvP specs) they are not bad. However, Warden is not OP. You can literally make then useless by rooting them because Scorch travels in wherever their character is facing, and Shimmering Shield is buggy and can shatter every tick of certain abilities. Keep in mind that whenever a Warden summons their little forest, they don't have a Damage-dealing Ult ready since this is an Ult they are using just to survive.

To be fair, all of those things have been nerfed.